The Briefing Room
General Category => Politics/Government => Topic started by: Formerly Once-Ler on June 15, 2018, 04:35:15 pm
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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/06/15/manafort-pleads-not-guilty-to-charges-witness-tampering.html (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/06/15/manafort-pleads-not-guilty-to-charges-witness-tampering.html)
Former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort was jailed Friday after a federal judge revoked his $10 million bail based on new witness tampering charges brought by Special Counsel Robert Mueller.
Washington, D.C., Federal District Judge Amy Berman Jackson sent the onetime power player to jail pending trial moments after he pleaded not guilty to the charges, brought against him and his associate, Konstantin Kilimnik of Moscow.
Mueller accused the pair of obstructing justice in the investigation into Russian meddling and potential collusion with Trump campaign associates in 2016.
Manafort's trial before Jackson is expected to take place in September. He is also facing charges brought by Mueller in another federal court, and will appear for that case in August.
More at link...
Kilgore Trout @KT_So_It_Goes
37 minutes ago
TRUMP TOTALLY EXONERATED YET AGAIN
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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/06/15/manafort-pleads-not-guilty-to-charges-witness-tampering.html (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/06/15/manafort-pleads-not-guilty-to-charges-witness-tampering.html)
More at link...
Kilgore Trout @KT_So_It_Goes
37 minutes ago
TRUMP TOTALLY EXONERATED YET AGAIN
Wow. A fictional Kurt Vonnegut character is being posted as wit on this forum to slam Trump? Looks like the NT's are running out of gas and scraping the gutters for material.
BTW Trump was doing the Apprentice show when these crimes were committed by Manafart. Really doesn't have a damn thing to do with him.
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https://twitter.com/JTSantucci/status/1007653431476187136
John Santucci @JTSantucci
Sources close to Trump legal team tell @ABC they're "stunned" by Manafort bail decision. No response yet from the President's attorneys on today's development.
Didn't see that coming? Where does Trump find these idiots? All the real lawyers said no?
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Wow. A fictional Kurt Vonnegut character is being posted as wit on this forum to slam Trump? Looks like the NT's are running out of gas and scraping the gutters for material.
BTW Trump was doing the Apprentice show when these crimes were committed by Manafart. Really doesn't have a damn thing to do with him.
@Frank Cannon
Manafort is in jail now because he tampered with witnesses after the elections. He will die in jail because Everything Trump Touches Dies.
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Does it not seem as if a lot of what Mueller does has no other purpose than to poke Trump in the eye? Manafort managed Trump's campaign through the convention and made that event smooth sailing for Trump's team. Mueller's message, it seems to me, is that anyone who helped or supported Trump will be hounded mercilessly.
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@Frank Cannon
Manafort is in jail now because he tampered with witnesses after the elections. He will die in jail because Everything Trump Touches Dies.
Really? The guy claiming he tampered has cost the US taxpayers in excess of 100 million dollars in payouts to victims who he fabricated evidence against.
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Does it not seem as if a lot of what Mueller does has no other purpose than to poke Trump in the eye? Manafort managed Trump's campaign through the convention and made that event smooth sailing for Trump's team. Mueller's message, it seems to me, is that anyone who helped or supported Trump will be hounded mercilessly.
It seems to me that Manafort is going to be found guilty of laundering $30 million and defrauding the US because he did it.
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Really? The guy claiming he tampered has cost the US taxpayers in excess of 100 million dollars in payouts to victims who he fabricated evidence against.
I don't think Manafort will be awarded any money.
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'It seems to me that Manafort is going to be found guilty of laundering $30 million and defrauding the US because he did it.'
If the law were applied evenhandedly across the board who could complain. But in every case the Deep State walks while Trump supporters have the book plus the kitchen sink thrown at them.
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'It seems to me that Manafort is going to be found guilty of laundering $30 million and defrauding the US because he did it.'
If the law were applied evenhandedly across the board who could complain. But in every case the Deep State walks while Trump supporters have the book plus the kitchen sink thrown at them.
The “everyone else gets away with it†excuse won’t get you out of a parking ticket or a speeding ticket; why on Earth would it get Manafort off for money laundering and tax evasion?
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'It seems to me that Manafort is going to be found guilty of laundering $30 million and defrauding the US because he did it.'
If the law were applied evenhandedly across the board who could complain. But in every case the Deep State walks while Trump supporters have the book plus the kitchen sink thrown at them.
Welcome to TBR, and thanks for a great example of a sweeping generalization! :rolling:
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'It seems to me that Manafort is going to be found guilty of laundering $30 million and defrauding the US because he did it.'
If the law were applied evenhandedly across the board who could complain. But in every case the Deep State walks while Trump supporters have the book plus the kitchen sink thrown at them.
Hi @Fantasywriter welcome to NT headquarters. I didn't know you visit here.
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Hi @Fantasywriter welcome to NT headquarters. I didn't know you visit here.
:facepalm2:
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The “everyone else gets away with it†excuse won’t get you out of a parking ticket or a speeding ticket; why on Earth would it get Manafort off for money laundering and tax evasion?
Good point.
I heard those jailhouse metal toilets are really cold.
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In before someone says IHOTBP*
*I Hire Only The Best people
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Good point.
I heard those jailhouse metal toilets are really cold.
@Oceander
That may or may not be a good point. If Manafort can prove his prosecution was political (it is) then
he might be able to win in an appeal. Recall that the folks that usually handle these types of cased
decided NOT to prosecute Manafort. It was the politically driven Meuller that decided to prosecute.
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The articles I have been reading about it have been heavy on speculation and short on details.
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I don't think Manafort will be awarded any money.
Well people were ready to hang the Anthrax dudes until the Mueller lies were exposed.
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Well people were ready to hang the Anthrax dudes until the Mueller lies were exposed.
Not me, I'm a big fan.
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiHdr4rWG98#)
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'The “everyone else gets away with it†excuse won’t get you out of a parking ticket or a speeding ticket; why on Earth would it get Manafort off for money laundering and tax evasion?'
You've misstated what I said. All I remarked was that the Deep State should be held to the same standards as are Trump supporters.
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'welcome to NT headquarters.'
?
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Forget about Trump for a second, what concrete is Manafort accused of doing? I still haven't figured that out.
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'thanks for a great example of a sweeping generalization'
Could you kindly name any Democrat of note who has been indicted, arrested and/or jailed by the Sessions DOJ? So far all I've seen are Trump supporters getting the book thrown at them.
Tia.
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Forget about Trump for a second, what concrete is Manafort accused of doing? I still haven't figured that out.
Laundering $30 million and defrauding the US. Manafort says he was just knocking on doors and passing out fliers as part of his campaign intern duties.
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How did Manafort Launder 30 million Dollars?
What's all that about?
He received money for overseas election work, but wasn't all that pre-Trump?
Manafort and Stone worked to elect thugs, they're no angels, to be sure, but I'm not seeing a crime here.
What am I missing?
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How did Manafort Launder 30 million Dollars?
What's all that about?
He received money for overseas election work, but wasn't all that pre-Trump?
Manafort and Stone worked to elect thugs, they're no angels, to be sure, but I'm not seeing a crime here.
What am I missing?
https://www.google.com/search?q=manafort+money+laundering (https://www.google.com/search?q=manafort+money+laundering)
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SIT UP AT ATTENTION!!!!
Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
11 minutes ago
Wow, what a tough sentence for Paul Manafort, who has represented Ronald Reagan, Bob Dole and many other top political people and campaigns. Didn’t know Manafort was the head of the Mob. What about Comey and Crooked Hillary and all of the others? Very unfair!
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Why deny the guy bail though? Even rapist and murderers get bail.
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Here's a link where he covers the bases with Manafort, Cohen, and Flynn.
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2018/06/15/trump-answers-questions-manafort-response.cnn/video/playlists/paul-manafort/ (https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2018/06/15/trump-answers-questions-manafort-response.cnn/video/playlists/paul-manafort/)
This part is particularly amusing...
“I feel badly for General Flynn. He’s lost his house, he’s lost his life. And some people say he lied and some people say he didn’t lie. I mean, really, it turned out maybe he didn’t lie,†Mr. Trump told reporters outside of the White House following a live interview on Fox News early Friday.
Gen. Flynn lost his life? That usually means you died, but, whatever. Just remember, the reason why he was fired as National Security advisor was because he lied to Pence about meetings with the Russian ambassador. If there was a loss of livelihood, it's because he had been fired twice by two different presidents and he had no more options in DC after that. He would have moved, anyway, and his net worth is somewhere around $7M. Plus, he has full retirement benefits as a 3 star. He's fine.
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Why deny the guy bail though? Even rapist and murderers get bail.
He was originally given bail with certain conditions. He violated those conditions so it was revoked. That would apply to even someone with a warrant for unpaid traffic fines.
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How did Manafort Launder 30 million Dollars?
What's all that about?
He received money for overseas election work, but wasn't all that pre-Trump?
Manafort and Stone worked to elect thugs, they're no angels, to be sure, but I'm not seeing a crime here.
What am I missing?
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/02/27/paul-manafort-was-stupid-or-unlucky-most-money-launderers-get-away-with-it-217090 (https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/02/27/paul-manafort-was-stupid-or-unlucky-most-money-launderers-get-away-with-it-217090)
IMO its creepy how several on this thread who seemingly are perfectly OK with the tactics used by this corrupt prosecutor regularly accuse Trump supporters of goose stepping. Who are the storm troopers here?
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Hi @Fantasywriter welcome to NT headquarters. I didn't know you visit here.
And yet, here you are. Welcome to the ranks of Never Trumpers. Have a coffee. Donuts are on the table by the door.
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And yet, here you are. Welcome to the ranks of Never Trumpers. Have a coffee. Donuts are on the table by the door.
The funny part is this isn't about Trump, this is about Manafort who has been corrupt long before Trump decided to be a Republican.
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@Oceander
That may or may not be a good point. If Manafort can prove his prosecution was political (it is) then
he might be able to win in an appeal. Recall that the folks that usually handle these types of cased
decided NOT to prosecute Manafort. It was the politically driven Meuller that decided to prosecute.
The only reason Mueller picked this up (after being dropped before), and is pushing for Manafort to be thrown in the slammer forever, is because he wants Manafort to turn on Trump and accuse him of eating babies.
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The funny part is this isn't about Trump, this is about Manafort who has been corrupt long before Trump decided to be a Republican.
It is ironic. It seems everything is really a Trump story.
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I must be missing an inside joke. It's clear this site isn't restricted to Never-Trumpers.
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I must be missing an inside joke. It's clear this site isn't restricted to Never-Trumpers.
The best way to describe this site is it is a 'free' site. With that comes the shocking and terrifying chance that you may be exposed to opinions different than your own.
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The only reason Mueller picked this up (after being dropped before), and is pushing for Manafort to be thrown in the slammer forever, is because he wants Manafort to turn on Trump and accuse him of eating babies.
Trump only ate the baby to own liberals.
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I must be missing an inside joke. It's clear this site isn't restricted to Never-Trumpers.
Restricted’s not exactly the right word. But, there was a time towards the end of primaries when we became highly populated by angry NeverTrumpers who had just been booted or fled from FR. Man those were tough days. Management had its hands full with infighting. Got ugly at times.
But, since then we’ve reach a certain equilibrium among members. It’s mostly cool now.
By the way, you’ll love the “modify post†function we have here. So enjoy!
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I must be missing an inside joke. It's clear this site isn't restricted to Never-Trumpers.
This site is open to Pastafarians, provided they aren't jerks about it. When it comes to the Trump Wars (which are still very much a "thing"), both extremes constantly complain their side is the One True Knowledge, and it's also the one that is unfairly persecuted by the Moderators. The entire Forum is "Run by the 'Others'."
Welcome to TRB, @Fantasywriter! We believe in Trial by Fire here.
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It's going to take a lot more than Never-Trumpers to shock me with their opinions. I've been around Never-Trumpers for quite a long time . I was initially bemused by people who were convinced that Rosenstein and Mueller were 'white hats,' but that novelty wore off some time ago.
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Restricted’s not exactly the right word. But, there was a time towards the end of primaries when we became highly populated by angry NeverTrumpers who had just been booted or fled from FR. Man those were tough days. Management had its hands full with infighting. Got ugly at times.
But, since then we’ve reach a certain equilibrium among members. It’s mostly cool now.
By the way, you’ll love the “modify post†function we have here. So enjoy!
Truedat. Many of those Refugees have stayed, not because they are on one side or the other, but because they enjoy reading the thoughts of everybody from all over the "Trump Spectrum." Plus, we have the best Music Threads around, moderated by our own @TomSea and @corbe. Good Second Amendment threads too, moderated by @txradioguy.
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'But, since then we’ve reach a certain equilibrium'
It sounds like I came at the right time.
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How did Manafort Launder 30 million Dollars?
What's all that about?
He received money for overseas election work, but wasn't all that pre-Trump?
Manafort and Stone worked to elect thugs, they're no angels, to be sure, but I'm not seeing a crime here.
What am I missing?
What you are missing is that something that happened under the Bush administration is now needed to smear Trump.
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'Welcome to TRB, @Fantasywriter! '
Thanks!
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The only reason Mueller picked this up (after being dropped before), and is pushing for Manafort to be thrown in the slammer forever, is because he wants Manafort to turn on Trump and accuse him of eating babies.
The feds had the goods on Manafort back in 2014, when they were using him to get Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych. After the ousted prez fled to Russia, they let Manafort walk. So what does he do with that gift? He uses his position in the Trump campaign to re-establish contacts in the former world that got him into trouble in the first place. He is in debt to Russian Oligarch Oleg Deripaska for millions. It's amazing he's still breathing.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/10/emails-suggest-manafort-sought-approval-from-putin-ally-deripaska/541677/ (https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/10/emails-suggest-manafort-sought-approval-from-putin-ally-deripaska/541677/)
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It's going to take a lot more than Never-Trumpers to shock me with their opinions. I've been around Never-Trumpers for quite a long time . I was initially bemused by people who were convinced that Rosenstein and Mueller were 'white hats,' but that novelty wore off some time ago.
Then there are some of us who have been saying for a long time they are all 'black hats'. They are all a bunch of corrupt crooks fighting each other.
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Then there are some of us who have been saying for a long time they are all 'black hats'. They are all a bunch of corrupt crooks fighting each other.
Like the SS vs. the SA in 1933 Germany.
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Like the SS vs. the SA in 1933 Germany.
Or the Gambinos versus Genovese.
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Forget about Trump for a second, what concrete is Manafort accused of doing? I still haven't figured that out.
You could always google the indictment.
In the Virginia case, he’s charged with multiple counts of filing false income tax returns (he failed to report millions of dollars in income), failure to file FBARs, bank fraud, and bank fraud conspiracy.
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The only reason Mueller picked this up (after being dropped before), and is pushing for Manafort to be thrown in the slammer forever, is because he wants Manafort to turn on Trump and accuse him of eating babies.
You have proof of this?
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Then there are some of us who have been saying for a long time they are all 'black hats'. They are all a bunch of corrupt crooks fighting each other.
That's about where I am, Trump excepted.
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That's about where I am, Trump excepted.
:silly:
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That's about where I am, Trump excepted.
..and I'm in the camp he is one of the biggest of them all- he is just good at marketing himself. He is like Gotti talking about all the good he did for his community, but if you look at how Trump operated for his entire history, it was the same crap we complain about all other 'political donor class' people. Trump just has a reality television demeanor which is good for marketing.
But all that's for a different thread.
Manafort has always been corrupt, in spite of his current association.
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:silly:
You mind if I laugh with you? :silly:
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You have proof of this?
Sure, the day Mueller comes clean with his true intentions. Until then, my proof is the same as the pro-Mueller folks who insist he's a straight-arrow. Speculation.
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Manafort has always been corrupt, in spite of his current association.
So I'm wondering why Trump hasn't thrown him under the bus like so many before Manafort?
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Sure, the day Mueller comes clean with his true intentions. Until then, my proof is the same as the pro-Mueller folks who insist he's a straight-arrow. Speculation.
In other words, no.
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So I'm wondering why Trump hasn't thrown him under the bus like so many before Manafort?
Manafort and Stone know all the dirty laundry, especially for those who come out of the N.Y. donor class. Stone even bragged as much a while back (pre Trump).
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So I'm wondering why Trump hasn't thrown him under the bus like so many before Manafort?
He can’t get much more under the bus than he is now, can he?
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IIRC he did not report the money he got from the Soviets but all the stories seem to be avoiding an details because they might confuse the readers.
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In other words, no.
Same as you, if you wish to assert otherwise. The difference is, I make no claims to have "special information."
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He can’t get much more under the bus than he is now, can he?
maybe.
http://www.businessinsider.com/rudy-giuliani-trump-could-shoot-james-comey-still-not-get-indicted-2018-6 (http://www.businessinsider.com/rudy-giuliani-trump-could-shoot-james-comey-still-not-get-indicted-2018-6)
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Same as you, if you wish to assert otherwise. The difference is, I make no claims to have "special information."
Same as me what? I’m not the one trying to prove Manaforts innocence by casting unproven aspersions on the prosecutor.
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So why aren't Hildabeast, Abedin, Wasserman-Schultz, Lerner and Comey in orange jumpsuits having their bail decided for much greater and far more heinous crimes?
I don't give a crap about Manafort supposed "crimes" because obviously some political and treasonous crimes are more equal than others apparently.
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So why aren't Hildabeast, Abedin, Wasserman-Schultz, Lerner and Comey in orange jumpsuits having their bail decided for much greater and far more heinous crimes?
I don't give a crap about Manafort supposed "crimes" because obviously some political and treasonous crimes are more equal than others apparently.
Ask Trump. He could have them prosecuted if he really cared to.
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Ask Trump. He could have them prosecuted if he really cared to.
By Whom? The FBI and DOJ??!!
:silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly:
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By Whom? The FBI and DOJ??!!
:silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly:
They are executive branch agencies. The DOJ is run by Jeff Sessions who can order an investigation and prosecution. He can, with a signature, stop or change most of this (not all but most).
I think Trump believes he is best served if this entire issue stays alive and active. Right from The Art of the Deal: "It doesn't matter what they say about you, as long as they are talking about you"
As long as there is the 'witch hunt' it galvanizes his followers behind him. He has positioned his entire marketing gambit on 'he is the people and the people are him' (my phrase)- so as long as there appears to be a witch hunt against him, his supporters will feel as though it is an attack on them and it will strengthen loyalty. Even if he shot James Comey on 5th Avenue, if they tried to prosecute him for that, it would be used the same way.
Like most politicians in the game, it isn't about resolution- that's the last thing they want. It is about keeping the issue alive.
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Same as me what? I’m not the one trying to prove Manaforts innocence by casting unproven aspersions on the prosecutor.
I'm not trying to prove Manafort's innocence either. Any aspersions I may cast the Prosecutor's way are irrelevant.
That's an interesting choice of words you used there: "Trying to Prove Manafort's innocence." I thought our legal system provides for "innocent until proven guilty." I'm glad you set me straight on what Mueller is doing here.
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I'm not trying to prove Manafort's innocence either. Any aspersions I may cast the Prosecutor's way are irrelevant.
That's an interesting choice of words you used there: "Trying to Prove Manafort's innocence." I thought our legal system provides for "innocent until proven guilty." I'm glad you set me straight on what Mueller is doing here.
Manafort has already admitted all sorts of guilt in a lot of this, including a few things we would be screaming about if he had a "D" behind his name- including being an unregistered foreign agent for the Russians interests in Ukraine and for Turkey.
Example:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/former-trump-campaign-chairman-paul-manafort-files-as-foreign-agent-for-ukraine-work/2017/06/27/8322b6ac-5b7b-11e7-9fc6-c7ef4bc58d13_story.html?utm_term=.a6c5e9cc108a (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/former-trump-campaign-chairman-paul-manafort-files-as-foreign-agent-for-ukraine-work/2017/06/27/8322b6ac-5b7b-11e7-9fc6-c7ef4bc58d13_story.html?utm_term=.a6c5e9cc108a)
http://www.businessinsider.com/manafort-registering-with-us-as-foreign-agent-2017-4 (http://www.businessinsider.com/manafort-registering-with-us-as-foreign-agent-2017-4)
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I'm not trying to prove Manafort's innocence either. Any aspersions I may cast the Prosecutor's way are irrelevant.
That's an interesting choice of words you used there: "Trying to Prove Manafort's innocence." I thought our legal system provides for "innocent until proven guilty." I'm glad you set me straight on what Mueller is doing here.
Whatever. Since you want to play with straw men and fake arguments, please don’t involve me.
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What you are missing is that something that happened under the Bush administration is now needed to smear Trump.
..and into the Obama administration, but I definitely get your point.
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Seems to me it should be a plus in Trump's corner that he dumped him.
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Manafort has already admitted all sorts of guilt in a lot of this, including a few things we would be screaming about if he had a "D" behind his name- including being an unregistered foreign agent for the Russians interests in Ukraine and for Turkey.
Example:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/former-trump-campaign-chairman-paul-manafort-files-as-foreign-agent-for-ukraine-work/2017/06/27/8322b6ac-5b7b-11e7-9fc6-c7ef4bc58d13_story.html?utm_term=.a6c5e9cc108a (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/former-trump-campaign-chairman-paul-manafort-files-as-foreign-agent-for-ukraine-work/2017/06/27/8322b6ac-5b7b-11e7-9fc6-c7ef4bc58d13_story.html?utm_term=.a6c5e9cc108a)
http://www.businessinsider.com/manafort-registering-with-us-as-foreign-agent-2017-4 (http://www.businessinsider.com/manafort-registering-with-us-as-foreign-agent-2017-4)
And they already have an email exchange between Manafort and Gates in which they create a fraudulent income statement for Manafort’s business by converting a pdf to word, editing the word document, and converting it back to pdf, in order to add about 3.5 million to his income. The doctored document was then submitted in support of a loan application. Pretty damning case of bank fraud.
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Whatever. Since you want to play with straw men and fake arguments, please don’t involve me.
Done. Trash what I say all you want, I've grown rather used to it. You honor me.
I am not alone with my suspicions of Mueller's motivation re: Manafort. A certain Judge named "T.S. Ellis III" agrees with my theory about that.
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Seems to me it should be a plus in Trump's corner that he dumped him.
Yes, and it would make even more sense to let Mueller wear himself out and justify his teams existence by getting the convictions on this one. Manafort is dirty enough that a successful conviction should justify Muellers efforts even if he never gets anything on Trump.
If a dirty Manafort is the price for ultimately leaving Trump alone, seems like a good deal to me.
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If a dirty Manafort is the price for ultimately leaving Trump alone, seems like a good deal to me.
I don't think it will work that way. If Mueller proves a dirty Manafort, he's not going to leave Trump alone. The hue and cry about "Where there's smoke there's fire" will go up from the Rats. He'll redouble his efforts to Get Trump, and the Dems will be glad to fund him any way they can.
The goal is to keep it alive until 2020, and a Manafort conviction will increase the odds of that, rather than decrease them.
Just more ridiculous supposition on my part. YMMV.
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Giuliani, who is a former federal prosecutor, also questioned the judge's decision to revoke Manafort's bail. "I don't understand the justification for putting him in jail," Giuliani told the Daily News. "You put a guy in jail if he's trying to kill witnesses, not just talking to witnesses."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/as-manafort-goes-to-jail-rudy-giuliani-suggests-trump-could-issue-pardons/ (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/as-manafort-goes-to-jail-rudy-giuliani-suggests-trump-could-issue-pardons/)
Remember when Giuliani got called out for saying the president can't be subpoenaed with his own 1998 statement saying Clinton would have to comply? You can bet there are court records of him prosecuting people for witness bribery, tampering, and intimidation while he was US Attorney working organized crime cases.
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I don't think it will work that way. If Mueller proves a dirty Manafort, he's not going to leave Trump alone. The hue and cry about "Where there's smoke there's fire" will go up from the Rats. He'll redouble his efforts to Get Trump, and the Dems will be glad to fund him any way they can.
The goal is to keep it alive until 2020, and a Manafort conviction will increase the odds of that, rather than decrease them.
Just more ridiculous supposition on my part. YMMV.
Doubt it. Nobody has tried tying Manafort to Trump to any great degree. He is sui generis.
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Giuliani, who is a former federal prosecutor, also questioned the judge's decision to revoke Manafort's bail. "I don't understand the justification for putting him in jail," Giuliani told the Daily News. "You put a guy in jail if he's trying to kill witnesses, not just talking to witnesses."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/as-manafort-goes-to-jail-rudy-giuliani-suggests-trump-could-issue-pardons/ (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/as-manafort-goes-to-jail-rudy-giuliani-suggests-trump-could-issue-pardons/)
Remember when Giuliani got called out for saying the president can't be subpoenaed with his own 1998 statement saying Clinton would have to comply? You can bet there are court records of him prosecuting people for witness bribery, tampering, and intimidation while he was US Attorney working organized crime cases.
Jailing someone for violating bail terms is very common. At that, I think Giuliani himself used this tactic against some of the Gambino financial guys to put pressure on them.
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Doubt it. Nobody has tried tying Manafort to Trump to any great degree. He is sui generis.
The Press has...but they're idiots relying upon their audience being fellow idiots. The Press uses the title "Trump Campaign Advisor" whenever they refer to Manafort. :whistle:
(You had me at Bing learning new words! Thanks!)
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Doubt it. Nobody has tried tying Manafort to Trump to any great degree. He is sui generis.
Besides, the first item in the SC mandate is to investigate any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump. We already know Manafort had contacts with people associated with Russian intelligence and Putin. So did Carter Page. That alone justifies the probe, whether it leads to Trump or not.
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3726408-Rosenstein-letter-appointing-Mueller-special.html (https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3726408-Rosenstein-letter-appointing-Mueller-special.html)
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'It seems to me that Manafort is going to be found guilty of laundering $30 million and defrauding the US because he did it.'
If the law were applied evenhandedly across the board who could complain. But in every case the Deep State walks while Trump supporters have the book plus the kitchen sink thrown at them.
Ain't that the truth!
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'The “everyone else gets away with it†excuse won’t get you out of a parking ticket or a speeding ticket; why on Earth would it get Manafort off for money laundering and tax evasion?'
You've misstated what I said. All I remarked was that the Deep State should be held to the same standards as are Trump supporters.
@Fantasywriter Welcome! And welcome to my world. My posts are constantly misunderstood. I understood you post perfectly and it is true.
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That's about where I am, Trump excepted.
I think that is a little harsh. I agree that many politicians put their own power first, the welfare of the people second but I don't think that is true of all of them.
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They are executive branch agencies. The DOJ is run by Jeff Sessions who can order an investigation and prosecution. He can, with a signature, stop or change most of this (not all but most).
I think Trump believes he is best served if this entire issue stays alive and active. Right from The Art of the Deal: "It doesn't matter what they say about you, as long as they are talking about you"
As long as there is the 'witch hunt' it galvanizes his followers behind him. He has positioned his entire marketing gambit on 'he is the people and the people are him' (my phrase)- so as long as there appears to be a witch hunt against him, his supporters will feel as though it is an attack on them and it will strengthen loyalty. Even if he shot James Comey on 5th Avenue, if they tried to prosecute him for that, it would be used the same way.
Like most politicians in the game, it isn't about resolution- that's the last thing they want. It is about keeping the issue alive.
Interesting take. But I take issue with the 'appears to be a witch hunt". There is a witch hunt and I think his supporters enjoy it because it's so over the top, it's funny. Even the SNL staff have decided it's not funny anymore.
But Trump is a 'different' guy. He is infuriated by the attacks and he attacks back but I don't think they bother him as they would most people. He is insulated by his own self-confidence.
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So why aren't Hildabeast, Abedin, Wasserman-Schultz, Lerner and Comey in orange jumpsuits having their bail decided for much greater and far more heinous crimes?
I don't give a crap about Manafort supposed "crimes" because obviously some political and treasonous crimes are more equal than others apparently.
Well @INVAR , you have to allow the current chief law enforcement official is either a participant or a leader of the fan dance when he admits a criminal investigation makes for good campaign sound bites, but has no real intentions to follow through.
! No longer available (http://youtube.com/watch?v=Qe1JcgkRQiM#)
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@Fantasywriter Welcome, whether you have been a member (didn't look at your date) and not posted much, or are a new member:
We have a virtual lounge as well as a lounge thread. @Cyber Liberty runs the virtual lounge. He is a sorry manager because he lets people lick the sprinkles off the chocolate donuts which are my favorite - that and Bear Claws. I have a corner walled off by screens, in the lounge, where I write books, next one is "Earthly Life to Eternal Life", Subtitle: "Eternity: No One Dies, Not Even You". You are welcome to visit my corner and if you have smokes, bring them - along with your Bible, maybe, or not. Not sure Cyber would let you have a cig in the lounge proper. Just in case, I use an e-cig in there.
If you want a certain pastry, tell Cyber. He probably won't get them but at least you tried. If he does get them, hide them or people like @CatherineofAragon and @Freya will praise you and at the same time while you are not looking, steal your pastries. Watch out for @mystery-ak, as she owns the place and insists you pick up your trash when you leave. You can dump your trash in my place as I have a big storage bin where I dump mine and I never get rid of it - you will notice the aroma in my place due to that. Or, maybe you will dump the bin for me since I am really old. You see, I am the oldest person here and some members don't like elderly people. What they don't know is what I know because I have lived longer. See how that works?
When you post, please stick to the subject of the thread, like I did with this post (ha) and don't get sucked into a personal word fight. If that starts, go to the virtual lounge and have a beer or two or three. Yes, tell Cyber which beer you want him to buy, which he probably won't do. I love Cyber because he has good humor.
This is a long post because I am on pain meds right now and feel less pain than all day, so wrote this long epistle.
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@Fantasywriter Welcome! And welcome to my world. My posts are constantly misunderstood. I understood you post perfectly and it is true.
Thanks! That greeting means a lot to me. I'll be on the lookout for your posts which I'm sure I'll enjoy.
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I think that is a little harsh. I agree that many politicians put their own power first, the welfare of the people second but I don't think that is true of all of them.
No doubt it's harsh. There are some exceptions which I didn't mention. I think Mattis is a pretty good egg. I'm trying very hard to like Jordan and Meadows but they seem a little too complacent where Ryan is concerned. Gaetz (sp?) seems to have the right priorities as well. As a matter of fact, next to Trump I'd rate Gaetz; he's done about as much as one Congressman can do. Dave Brat is outstanding. There may be a couple of others, but not many imo.
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Thanks! That greeting means a lot to me. I'll be on the lookout for your posts which I'm sure I'll enjoy.
@Emjay rocks. She’s a great example of someone who came in originally opposed to Trump’s candidacy, and while remaining critical of him after he won, she was still open to giving the new president a chance. She rocks and she rolls... :laugh:
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@Fantasywriter Welcome, whether you have been a member (didn't look at your date) and not posted much, or are a new member:
Thank you for your kind greeting. This is the first I heard of the cyber lounge--very helpful. Your books sound very interesting! I'm sorry to hear about the pain meds. I hope you're on the mend.
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@Emjay rocks. She’s a great example of someone who came in originally opposed to Trump’s candidacy, and while remaining critical of him after he won, she was still open to giving the new president a chance. She rocks and she rolls... :laugh:
Thanks! Trump has been winning some over, at least conditionally. I hope he doesn't stumble on the immigration compromise. I heard it eliminates e-verify; that would be a mistake.
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Thank you for your kind greeting. This is the first I heard of the cyber lounge--very helpful. Your books sound very interesting! I'm sorry to hear about the pain meds. I hope you're on the mend.
Click the pic, takes you right to the lounge.
(http://i65.tinypic.com/2chxkly.jpg) (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,297405.0.html)
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Click the pic, takes you right to the lounge.
(http://i65.tinypic.com/2chxkly.jpg) (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,297405.0.html)
Thanks for the link! I sure do love that pic of Reagan. It sets just the right tone.
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@Fantasywriter Welcome, whether you have been a member (didn't look at your date) and not posted much, or are a new member:
We have a virtual lounge as well as a lounge thread. @Cyber Liberty runs the virtual lounge. He is a sorry manager because he lets people lick the sprinkles off the chocolate donuts which are my favorite - that and Bear Claws. I have a corner walled off by screens, in the lounge, where I write books, next one is "Earthly Life to Eternal Life", Subtitle: "Eternity: No One Dies, Not Even You". You are welcome to visit my corner and if you have smokes, bring them - along with your Bible, maybe, or not. Not sure Cyber would let you have a cig in the lounge proper. Just in case, I use an e-cig in there.
If you want a certain pastry, tell Cyber. He probably won't get them but at least you tried. If he does get them, hide them or people like @CatherineofAragon and @Freya will praise you and at the same time while you are not looking, steal your pastries. Watch out for @mystery-ak, as she owns the place and insists you pick up your trash when you leave. You can dump your trash in my place as I have a big storage bin where I dump mine and I never get rid of it - you will notice the aroma in my place due to that. Or, maybe you will dump the bin for me since I am really old. You see, I am the oldest person here and some members don't like elderly people. What they don't know is what I know because I have lived longer. See how that works?
When you post, please stick to the subject of the thread, like I did with this post (ha) and don't get sucked into a personal word fight. If that starts, go to the virtual lounge and have a beer or two or three. Yes, tell Cyber which beer you want him to buy, which he probably won't do. I love Cyber because he has good humor.
This is a long post because I am on pain meds right now and feel less pain than all day, so wrote this long epistle.
@Fantasywriter
Hey, there! Welcome! I hope you'll hang around. You can post here without worry of being banned for your opinions.
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@Fantasywriter
Hey, there! Welcome! I hope you'll hang around. You can post here without worry of being banned for your opinions.
That's it in a nutshell. The constant threat of being banned gets old fast. But take heart. Traffic to the site we are referring to has plummeted. If you want a real shock, check the Alexa traffic rankings for the site in question. It is headed for the commode.
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That's it in a nutshell. The constant threat of being banned gets old fast. But take heart. Traffic to the site we are referring to has plummeted. If you want a real shock, check the Alexa traffic rankings for the site in question. It is headed for the commode.
@Fantasywriter
We have a thread in the Members Only area where we talk about that...and the endless 'Thon. A lot of the folks here came over with @CatherineofAragon.
The upside of TBR is you get to say whatever is on your mind (no personal attacks on other Briefers is the only rule). The downside is you will hear a bunch of stuff you won't like because others can too. This is no echo chamber, it's a much different kind of swimming hole.
Also, Mods here will talk to you. So will @mystery-ak, because she's a different kind of owner.
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@Fantasywriter
We have a thread in the Members Only area where we talk about that...and the endless 'Thon. A lot of the folks here came over with @CatherineofAragon.
The upside of TBR is you get to say whatever is on your mind (no personal attacks on other Briefers is the only rule). The downside is you will hear a bunch of stuff you won't like because others can too. This is no echo chamber, it's a much different kind of swimming hole.
Also, Mods here will talk to you. So will @mystery-ak, because she's a different kind of owner.
Thanks for the information--I'm very curious about that members only thread! The rest is very helpful too. I don't mind different POVs at all; it's just a part of life.
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With that last post @Fantasywriter I get the feeling you're gonna fit in real well here.
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In before someone says IHOTBP*
*I Hire Only The Best people
:silly: :silly: Lots of us were vocal about Manafort during the campaign.
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I really hope so, @corbe. I have enjoyed my first day very much.
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Lots of us were vocal about Manafort during the campaign.
The offer to be campaign manager for free should have been a clue. However, some people let their hubris make decisions.
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The offer to be campaign manager for free should have been a clue. However, some people let their hubris make decisions.
Yeah the Putin Mini Me plant! Free isn't free?
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I really hope so, @corbe. I have enjoyed my first day very much.
You find a nice home here, it comes completely furnished, including the crazy uncle in the attic, and the busybody neighbors that play their stereo too loud!
(Get off my lawn)
:beer:
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You find a nice home here, it comes completely furnished, including the crazy uncle in the attic, and the busybody neighbors that play their stereo too loud!
(Get off my lawn)
:beer:
Hilarious! The crazy uncle in the attic is priceless. 😁
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Wow. A fictional Kurt Vonnegut character is being posted as wit on this forum to slam Trump? Looks like the NT's are running out of gas and scraping the gutters for material.
BTW Trump was doing the Apprentice show when these crimes were committed by Manafart. Really doesn't have a damn thing to do with him.
I know Manafort is a wheeler dealer, a conniver, and a criminal but I still don't think he should be in prison until Hillary and Obama are.
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https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/02/27/paul-manafort-was-stupid-or-unlucky-most-money-launderers-get-away-with-it-217090 (https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/02/27/paul-manafort-was-stupid-or-unlucky-most-money-launderers-get-away-with-it-217090)
IMO its creepy how several on this thread who seemingly are perfectly OK with the tactics used by this corrupt prosecutor regularly accuse Trump supporters of goose stepping. Who are the storm troopers here?
I'm not okay with it. @skeeter . Manafort is obviously a long way from squeaky clean but I think he is being scapegoated and railroaded.
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I must be missing an inside joke. It's clear this site isn't restricted to Never-Trumpers.
@Fantasywriter Hang tough, baby. The site is obviously not restricted to anyone. Many insane people post here regularly.
But the NTers are relentless, repetitive and annoying. I've blocked most of them. I know I'll hear about it if they ever say anything worthwhile.
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..and I'm in the camp he is one of the biggest of them all- he is just good at marketing himself. He is like Gotti talking about all the good he did for his community, but if you look at how Trump operated for his entire history, it was the same crap we complain about all other 'political donor class' people. Trump just has a reality television demeanor which is good for marketing.
But all that's for a different thread.
Manafort has always been corrupt, in spite of his current association.
@AbaraXas With almost every media on the planet searching with a magnifying glass, nothing criminal has ever been proven about Trump.
Unless you know something nobody else does, you would be wise not to say stuff like that.
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I'm not okay with it. @skeeter . Manafort is obviously a long way from squeaky clean but I think he is being scapegoated and railroaded.
Ya think? Especially since it is the very same Obama appointed judge who cleared Hillary Clinton in the Benghazi debacle that ordered the jailing!
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Ya think? Especially since it is the very same Obama appointed judge who cleared Hillary Clinton in the Benghazi debacle that ordered the jailing!
Things will be rough until we can get rid of all the Obama appointed judges, all of whom are totally corrupt.
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Things will be rough until we can get rid of all the Obama appointed judges, all of whom are totally corrupt.
You have 329 lifetime appointments to get rid of.
Your chances of living without a scratch after jumping out of a plane at 30,000 feet without a parachute are greater.
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That's it in a nutshell. The constant threat of being banned gets old fast. But take heart. Traffic to the site we are referring to has plummeted. If you want a real shock, check the Alexa traffic rankings for the site in question. It is headed for the commode.
@Fantasywriter
@Cyber Liberty
Heading over to the member's thread to resume, lol...
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Have they shown any credible evidence to justify tossing Manafort back in jail?
Or was this Obama apponited judge just doing Muller a solid?
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Have they shown any credible evidence to justify tossing Manafort back in jail?
Or was this Obama apponited judge just doing Muller a solid?
Yes, he was not supposed to contact people unless it was through counsel. He used encrypted apps and 'foldering' through unsent emails to surreptitiously contact people. The members of the Hapsburg Group he had worked with were uncomfortable with the outreach, so they brought the info to the feds.
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/15/manafort-jailed-after-alleged-witness-tampering-648988 (https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/15/manafort-jailed-after-alleged-witness-tampering-648988)
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Yes, he was not supposed to contact people unless it was through counsel. He used encrypted apps and 'foldering' through unsent emails to surreptitiously contact people. The members of the Hapsburg Group he had worked with were uncomfortable with the outreach, so they brought the info to the feds.
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/15/manafort-jailed-after-alleged-witness-tampering-648988 (https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/15/manafort-jailed-after-alleged-witness-tampering-648988)
How do we know the Hapsburg Group isn't part of the Deep State? I've heard they have ties to a disgraced campaign chairman for a GOP presidential candidate who gave money to the Clinton Foundation, and Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee.
How do I even know Manifort is incarcerated when the Fake News are the guys reporting it.
@edpc The election is over and you lost. Quit picking ISIS over MAGA! /sarc
^-^ I hope you found this post funny. I've been enjoying your thoughtful and knowledgeable posts.
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I hope you found this post funny. I've been enjoying your thoughtful and knowledgeable posts.
Yes, we’ll done. I don’t have any inside info, I just read and cross reference different sources. You know what you’re getting from some, with their viewpoint. Nevertheless, there’s usually a kernel or two of solid content.
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I don’t have any inside info, I just read and cross reference different sources. You know what you’re getting from some, with their viewpoint. Nevertheless, there’s usually a kernel or two of solid content.
I give heavy credence to your observations as you've shown you verify those source with a much more critical eye than I do. TBR is better for your contributions.
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:silly: :silly: Lots of us were vocal about Manafort during the campaign.
Yeah, Even pretty early in 2016, I remember squawking at the TOS about the sleazy DJT/Manafort/Ukranian connection.
Shooter seems to be pretty content with his under-bus duty for the Trump team.
(http://wagesofwins.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/shooter_mcgavin.jpeg)
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Should read "Mueller ordered to jail, Bail denied""
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Have they shown any credible evidence to justify tossing Manafort back in jail?
Or was this Obama apponited judge just doing Muller a solid?
Yes, they did show credible evidence of witness tampering, or attempted tampering.
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Yes, they did show credible evidence of witness tampering, or attempted tampering.
That's what I see too, and I am no fan of Mueller.
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Should read "Mueller ordered to jail, Bail denied""
Add Comey, Lynch, Yates, Bammy, and Hitlery, Rosenstein, and numerous others to the list.
Mueller's history of prosecutorial misconduct and his conflicts of interest make it absurd he is leading the investigation which is illegitimate. The IG report makes it clear that it was instigated by a conspiracy of corrupt unelected officials and Bammy knew it.
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That's what I see too, and I am no fan of Mueller.
I’m no fan of prosecutors generally; I think that the dregs of the legal profession as often as not end up as prosecutors; but in this case, Manafort seems genuinely dirty, and even if Mueller were a stopped clock, he’d probably be telling the correct time on this one.
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I’m no fan of prosecutors generally; I think that the dregs of the legal profession as often as not end up as prosecutors;
You're thinking of "Dan" from "Night Court?" :laugh:
Mrs. Liberty worked in the courts for many years, first as a Transcriber, then as a Reporter, and she says the Public Defense attorneys and Prosecutors both ranked equally low on the scale. The PDs were usually very young and inexperienced, and caused her to go on wild-goose chases looking up bogus cites. Prosecutors hated cops (Seems backwards, but Prosecutors worked with cops all the time, and knew when they were lying through their teeth on the stand).
Experience Prosecutors knew the cops where liars, and Defenders are equally sure the Defendants are liars. :shrug:
The best Judges came from the Defense side of the courtroom, because they were sure everybody is lying to some degree.
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You're thinking of "Dan" from "Night Court?" :laugh:
Mrs. Liberty worked in the courts for many years, first as a Transcriber, then as a Reporter, and she says the Public Defense attorneys and Prosecutors both ranked equally low on the scale. The PDs were usually very young and inexperienced, and caused her to go on wild-goose chases looking up bogus cites. Prosecutors hated cops (Seems backwards, but Prosecutors worked with cops all the time, and knew when they were lying through their teeth on the stand).
Experience Prosecutors knew the cops where liars, and Defenders are equally sure the Defendants are liars. :shrug:
The best Judges came from the Defense side of the courtroom, because they were sure everybody is lying to some degree.
Generally not enough integrity in a courtroom to fill a small thimble. Not always but most of the time.
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Generally not enough integrity in a courtroom to fill a small thimble. Not always but most of the time.
The Clerks, the Bailiffs and the Reporters are good, and that's about it.
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The Clerks, the Bailiffs and the Reporters are good, and that's about it.
Yeah! That's about right.