The Briefing Room
General Category => Politics/Government => Topic started by: mystery-ak on May 08, 2016, 02:02:22 pm
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http://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2016/05/07/ripple-effect-trumps-pushes-11-states-to-the-democrats-n2159255
Ripple Effect: Trumps Pushes 11 States Toward The Democrats
Matt Vespa
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Posted: May 07, 2016 8:00 PM
Donald Trump will start his 2016 battle against Hillary Clinton by trailing her by double-digits in the polls and a projected Electoral College wipeout thus far. Now that he’s the presumptive nominee, the Cook Political Report had moved 11 states towards the Democrats (the Hill):
“Although we remain convinced that Hillary Clinton is very vulnerable and would probably lose to most other Republicans, Donald Trump's historic unpopularity with wide swaths of the electorate — women, millennials, independents and Latinos — make him the initial November underdog.”
Colorado, Florida, Pennsylvania, Virginia and Wisconsin were all shifted from toss-up states to leaning Democratic. The “solid Republican” states Missouri and Indiana were downgraded to “likely Republican.” New Mexico is now solidly Democratic, and North Carolina is a toss-up after leaning Republican.
(http://media.townhall.com/_townhall/uploads/2016/5/7/0.png)
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Not much has changed. Of all the candidates, Trump had the deepest hole to dig out of. Statesmanship-like is antithetical to his personality, but something he's going to have to learn if he's to have any chance. They say the VP pick isn't all that important, but his is going to have to be good enough to help with the digging.
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Can anyone think of a single state that Trump could take out of the Democrat column if he loses all these swing states?
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Can anyone think of a single state that Trump could take out of the Democrat column if he loses all these swing states?
No but I can think of a couple right off the top of my head that he can take out of the Republican column. Utah and Montana..
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http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/03/08/tech-ceos-meet-secretly-with-gop-leaders-to-stop-trump/
Push polls owned by the left are still push polls. Nothing objective i.e turn out, enthusiasm. number of small donors etc supports such a poll that also pushes the democrat party's talking points. When 70 percent of all Americans agree with Trump on illegals, Muslims, economy and Nationalism this type of agitprop is nothing more than manipulation for the haters.
Odds are the polls will act just like they did for Regan, always losing badly until he won.
oh, apply common sense to this, It says the ones who could not beat Trump on the Republican side can beat Hillary.
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Not only that, look at the down-ballot races in the primaries
The Trump-effect is squashing the TEA Party candidates in the primary
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Can anyone think of a single state that Trump could take out of the Democrat column if he loses all these swing states?
I think he might have an outside shot at Schleswig-Holstein, but only because he's got a northern Germanic surname.
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http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/03/08/tech-ceos-meet-secretly-with-gop-leaders-to-stop-trump/
Push polls owned by the left are still push polls. Nothing objective i.e turn out, enthusiasm. number of small donors etc supports such a poll that also pushes the democrat party's talking points. When 70 percent of all Americans agree with Trump on illegals, Muslims, economy and Nationalism this type of agitprop is nothing more than manipulation for the haters.
Odds are the polls will act just like they did for Regan, always losing badly until he won.
oh, apply common sense to this, It says the ones who could not beat Trump on the Republican side can beat Hillary.
I'm not sure how a question framed as "Who do you favor Trump or Clinton" is a push poll. And almost every one has Hillary beating him, often by double digits. As for why some candidates can beat Hillary in the GE but not Trump in the primary, it's pretty easy to see it's a different sampling group. Once the GE really kicks off, we should see some narrowing, but I still see Trump as having a hell of a hole to climb out of.
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I'm not sure how a question framed as "Who do you favor Trump or Clinton" is a push poll. And almost every one has Hillary beating him, often by double digits. As for why some candidates can beat Hillary in the GE but not Trump in the primary, it's pretty easy to see it's a different sampling group. Once the GE really kicks off, we should see some narrowing, but I still see Trump as having a hell of a hole to climb out of.
Several things show its a garbage poll.
1 Its CBS, they have zero credibility.
2. The pump up the Democrat when not one objective fact backs it.
3. They push the Democrat talking points verbatim.
4 The defy common sense by saying GOP who performed so badly with their base in actual voting could do better than the top vote winner in the General.
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Several things show its a garbage poll.
1 Its CBS, they have zero credibility.
2. The pump up the Democrat when not one objective fact backs it.
3. They push the Democrat talking points verbatim.
4 The defy common sense by saying GOP who performed so badly with their base in actual voting could do better than the top vote winner in the General.
Yet that poll is consistent with numerous polls for the past several months. Trump, Cruz and Clinton all have serious net negatives. One recent poll showed the single biggest reason people would vote for Trump is to beat Hillary. That would be my reason also, and I know a few more right here. And maybe the likeability negatives for Trump will change, but again maybe he needs to start that process himself.
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Ans all from the same sources most with the same fundamental flaws, talking points and agenda. Repeating a lie which is what they are doing is not working this time around obviously.
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Ans all from the same sources most with the same fundamental flaws, talking points and agenda. Repeating a lie which is what they are doing is not working this time around obviously.
I know Trump loves touting the polls. But help me out. Are the only good polls the ones that show results he likes?
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I know Trump loves touting the polls. But help me out. Are the only good polls the ones that show results he likes?
Per Gallop none of the Political polls are valid anymore. I do not believe in polls. In an honors college political science class we learned that the free-to-the-public Polls are tools of manipulation - they do not measure anything. They will put out some good data to keep people watching them but their business plan makes money by delivering results manipulating low information populations. Remember how they told us the Homosexual agenda was accepted by most people just before 32 states shot it down by overwhelming numbers? Yet here we are with Big ones like Gallop saying they are not accurate but political pundits still live and die by them.
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Several things show its a garbage poll.
1 Its CBS, they have zero credibility.
2. The pump up the Democrat when not one objective fact backs it.
3. They push the Democrat talking points verbatim.
4 The defy common sense by saying GOP who performed so badly with their base in actual voting could do better than the top vote winner in the General.
Wishful thinking. This poll is in line with 69 of the last 70 polls taken.
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Per Gallop none of the Political polls are valid anymore. I do not believe in polls. In an honors college political science class we learned that the free-to-the-public Polls are tools of manipulation - they do not measure anything. They will put out some good data to keep people watching them but their business plan makes money by delivering results manipulating low information populations. Remember how they told us the Homosexual agenda was accepted by most people just before 32 states shot it down by overwhelming numbers? Yet here we are with Big ones like Gallop saying they are not accurate but political pundits still live and die by them.
Then why did Trump spend the entire primary season pimping polls favoring himself? Gallup doesn't poll the presidential races any longer because they were absolutely the most unreliable in 2012.
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Ans all from the same sources most with the same fundamental flaws, talking points and agenda. Repeating a lie which is what they are doing is not working this time around obviously.
Polling flaws are categorical and methodological, not overtly political.
Margins of error are greatly reduced when one considers results obtained by multiple methodologies over time. Thus, when virtually every reputable poll shows Donald Trump getting his clock cleaned by the Wicked Witch of Westchester, it is not likely the result of flawed analysis. The idea that there is some vast underground tsunami of disgruntled voters who will rise up on Election Day to wash away the old electoral landscape is a fanciful one, a wishful dream.
In truth, the flaws lie with the candidate, not with the polls. Trump has both the time and resources to correct this situation; the question is: will he?
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Then why did Trump spend the entire primary season pimping polls favoring himself? Gallup doesn't poll the presidential races any longer because they were absolutely the most unreliable in 2012.
Same reason I do, because people like you still believe in them and they work on you.
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Same reason I do, because people like you still believe in them and they work on you.
They work on me because they're correct.
And they work on you because you can't let it go.
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Per Gallop none of the Political polls are valid anymore. I do not believe in polls. In an honors college political science class we learned that the free-to-the-public Polls are tools of manipulation - they do not measure anything. They will put out some good data to keep people watching them but their business plan makes money by delivering results manipulating low information populations. Remember how they told us the Homosexual agenda was accepted by most people just before 32 states shot it down by overwhelming numbers? Yet here we are with Big ones like Gallop saying they are not accurate but political pundits still live and die by them.
They're valid to the extent of the sampling error, the confidence level, the population identified and the wording of the question. Obviously in a political campaign, polls change rapidly. The more polls on an issue however, the more valid one's acceptance or non-acceptance. Bush's polling was so-so when he started, and then began crumbling until the net negatives were in the 20 percent range by every poll out there. The polling companies had no relationship with each other. How did they all show the same thing? Cruz was the same, and so is Trump along with Clinton. Are all the polls somehow connected to a central media control system?
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They work on me because they're correct.
And they work on you because you can't let it go.
Nope they have no effect on me since I know who what when why and how polls like them are done and who pays for them.
Little hint. A poll can be made to say anything by selecting demographics by zip code, purchase history, time of day, etc.
Did you know the choice of your Spaghetti Sauce can predict your voting preference? And boy do they have detailed data bases on populations by zip code/demographics now.
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They're valid to the extent of the sampling error, the confidence level, the population identified and the wording of the question. Obviously in a political campaign, polls change rapidly. The more polls on an issue however, the more valid one's acceptance or non-acceptance. Bush's polling was so-so when he started, and then began crumbling until the net negatives were in the 20 percent range by every poll out there. The polling companies had no relationship with each other. How did they all show the same thing? Cruz was the same, and so is Trump along with Clinton. Are all the polls somehow connected to a central media control system?
Obviously not. Unless they show where they targeted their calls such as urban vs rural. Black vs white zip codes, etc their claim of who they called is deceptive since to make it lean heavy democrat all they need to do is call heavy voting democrat zip codes around the country and call it a national poll even when its targeted to get the results they are being paid for.
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Nope they have no effect on me since I know who what when why and how polls like them are done and who pays for them.
Little hint. A poll can be made to say anything by selecting demographics by zip code, purchase history, time of day, etc.
Did you know the choice of your Spaghetti Sauce can predict your voting preference? And boy do they have detailed data bases on populations by zip code/demographics now.
You display an astonishing lack of knowledge about the polling industry. If polls were all rigged (like the AMP poll that showed Nehlen beating Ryan in a primary), pollsters would go out of business. Nobody could rely on them.
No, polls are mostly correct, especially when a convergence of all polls show the same thing. That should make you very nervous.
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Public consumption polls generally reflect what the people who pay for them want them to reflect!
Donald J. Trump is a LOON unworthy of ANY public office much less the presidency! And that is not based on any poll! It's based on verifiable FACT!
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Obviously not. Unless they show where they targeted their calls such as urban vs rural. Black vs white zip codes, etc their claim of who they called is deceptive since to make it lean heavy democrat all they need to do is call heavy voting democrat zip codes around the country and call it a national poll even when its targeted to get the results they are being paid for.
In the absence of any other rational indicators, polls from independent companies should be considered by candidates, and we know Trump does look at them, because he continually touted them when they favored him over his competitors throughout this primary season. And if these companies independent of each other are all somehow trying to slant the polls against Trump, why are they also showing Hillary with net negatives?
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You display an astonishing lack of knowledge about the polling industry. If polls were all rigged (like the AMP poll that showed Nehlen beating Ryan in a primary), pollsters would go out of business. Nobody could rely on them.
No, polls are mostly correct, especially when a convergence of all polls show the same thing. That should make you very nervous.
So the Polls in North Korea, former USSR, Nazi Germany etc were all legit too.... Several of the same polling companies here work in dictatorships around the globe and many of them list their ability to manipulate as a selling point to hire them.
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Public consumption polls generally reflect what the people who pay for them want them to reflect!
Donald J. Trump is a LOON unworthy of ANY public office much less the presidency! And that is not based on any poll! It's based on verifiable FACT!
So the polls showing that the population in general might possibly agree with that assessment is just a coincidence? How about the polls showing that Ted Cruz has net negatives not too dissimilar to Trump's? Can we draw any inference from those polls?
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So the polls showing that the population in general might possibly agree with that assessment is just a coincidence? How about the polls showing that Ted Cruz has net negatives not too dissimilar to Trump's? Can we draw any inference from those polls?
No! Not really! And certainly not now!
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The polls are skewed. Let's unskew them.
Where and when have I heard THAT before. Oh yeah - 2012. 2008. 2004. 2000.
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http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/03/08/tech-ceos-meet-secretly-with-gop-leaders-to-stop-trump/
Push polls owned by the left are still push polls. Nothing objective i.e turn out, enthusiasm. number of small donors etc supports such a poll that also pushes the democrat party's talking points. When 70 percent of all Americans agree with Trump on illegals, Muslims, economy and Nationalism.
Horsecrap. There is NO data backing up that kind of claim. And please.. those repeated comparisons of Trump to Reagan.. the dynamics could not be more different between 1980 and now. Further.. Trump is no Reagan... not anywhere close.
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So the Polls in North Korea, former USSR, Nazi Germany etc were all legit too.... Several of the same polling companies here work in dictatorships around the globe and many of them list their ability to manipulate as a selling point to hire them.
So which totalitarian government are all of these independent polling companies working for these days?
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Ripple Effect: Trumps Pushes 11 States Toward The Democrats
Well, here's some news the anti-Trump folks can embrace and celebrate after such a tough week.
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http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/09/10/592513/-How-Polling-Companies-Manipulate-Polls-Why
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Daily-effing-kos? And you bitching about source bias?
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So which totalitarian government are all of these independent polling companies working for these days?
Search terms "polling companies that manipulate data" one of the articles that popped up.
http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2014-02-26/news/47705569_1_opinion-poll-public-opinion-sting-operation
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Daily-effing-kos? And you bitching about source bias?
Next time do your own googling so you cannot play the liberal attack the messenger.
Heres one search string, so you can beat your head against the wall all you want'
"polling companies that manipulate data"
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Come November, when these polls are proven to be correct, and when that gap that's existed all year comes to fruition and Clinton wins the election, Trump supporters will immediately turn and blame #NeverTrump for the loss, conveniently forgetting all these polls and that what #NeverTrump has been arguing all along, is that according to every poll, Trump can't beat Hillary.
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Next time do your own googling so you cannot play the liberal attack the messenger.
Heres one search string, so you can beat your head against the wall all you want'
"polling companies that manipulate data"
Now we're getting somewhere. You admitted you are Liberal.
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,205623.msg871504.html#msg871504
Any article from the unethical Mark Levin should contain the disclaimer he attacks Trump for money.
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,205616.msg871287.html#msg871287
Erickson the Paid #neverTrump Agitprop spewer.
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,205616.msg871272.html#msg871272
You posted a Think Progress Soros article recently. Hypocrite much?
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,205592.msg871177.html#msg871177
Several things show its a garbage poll.
1 Its CBS, they have zero credibility.
Those are just from today.
Pro-tip here: Respect is earned. You fail at that. I won't suggest you go back to your day job of hounding #nevertrumps at FR, but it's more your speed than actual discussion.
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The polls are skewed. Let's unskew them.
Where and when have I heard THAT before. Oh yeah - 2012. 2008. 2004. 2000.
Your comment made me reflect upon my own observations about polls during the last election. Analyzing polling data is something I know a thing about, having written a thesis on the subject in my graduate days. Most recently, in 2012, I noted on numerous occasions as to how many "prestige" polling organizations appeared to be underestimating Republican voters in their samples, often using somewhere between 27% and 30% as a target (after normative adjustments).
My thought at the time was that they were under-counting GOP voters by five percent or so, based upon historical Presidential electoral trends, and thus giving Obama a seeming and I thought, undeserved advantage.
It turned out that they were right, and I was wrong. Why? Because Republican "likely" voters had in fact shrunken as a group, in part having shed their numbers to the Independent category, and also because a decreasing number of registered GOP voters were actually "likely" to turn out on election day - a trend that seems to have begun in 2004, and has continued to this day, as far as I can tell.
Democrats, on the other hand, benefited from having a candidate that uniquely generated instantaneous and almost unanimous support from a core Democrat constituency - blacks, of course. But they also effectively leveraged superior enrollment and ground-level organization efforts to get their voters to the polls, including social media targeting, phone banks, enrollment drives, door-to-door canvassing, bus and car rides, and inducements of various kinds, including cash and other... "things" that have appeared in anecdotal accounts, but which I happen to believe. Cheap wine is still wine, after all. Was there cheating involved? Certainly. You can't get 104% turnout in certain precincts any other way.
But the harsh reality remains for Republicans: they are a minority party, and their dependable voters - including many nominal independents - are shrinking in number.
While it may still be true that Success has a thousand fathers and Failure is an orphan, the baby still got there somehow, and it is incumbent upon whoever may be said to compose today's Republican leadership to take responsibility for it.
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Search terms "polling companies that manipulate data" one of the articles that popped up.
http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2014-02-26/news/47705569_1_opinion-poll-public-opinion-sting-operation
The companies listed as well as the article are from India. So I'm still trying to understand if all the polls showing Trump beating his rivals are good ones as he campaigns on, why are all the ones showing him in a negative light bad? Let me ask you this. Do you honestly believe he is actually seen in a good light by most Americans? If so, how about Hillary? The same polls are showing her with net negatives too.
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So the Polls in North Korea, former USSR, Nazi Germany etc were all legit too.... Several of the same polling companies here work in dictatorships around the globe and many of them list their ability to manipulate as a selling point to hire them.
When presented with an argument you can't answer, you, like your boy Trump, just jump to something entirely unrelated, as if it means anything.
I guess I'm going to have to put you on ignore too. You're making my head hurt.
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Now we're getting somewhere. You admitted you are Liberal.
Those are just from today.
Pro-tip here: Respect is earned. You fail at that. I won't suggest you go back to your day job of hounding #nevertrumps at FR, but it's more your speed than actual discussion.
Just because I expose the Fact #neverTrump is a fake operation run by far Left Billionaires and Establishment who pay for manufactured authority does not in anyway make me a liberal or discredit me.
When the #neverTrump people can actually refute the Facts I have posted then get back to me, until then any insults against me like the ones you tried here I take as a sign of your surrender.
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Your comment made me reflect upon my own observations about polls during the last election. Analyzing polling data is something I know a thing about, having written a thesis on the subject in my graduate days. Most recently, in 2012, I noted on numerous occasions as to how many "prestige" polling organizations appeared to be underestimating Republican voters in their samples, often using somewhere between 27% and 30% as a target (after normative adjustments).
My thought at the time was that they were under-counting GOP voters by five percent or so, based upon historical Presidential electoral trends, and thus giving Obama a seeming and I thought, undeserved advantage.
It turned out that they were right, and I was wrong. Why? Because Republican "likely" voters had in fact shrunken as a group, in part having shed their numbers to the Independent category, and also because a decreasing number of registered GOP voters were actually "likely" to turn out on election day - a trend that seems to have begun in 2004, and has continued to this day, as far as I can tell.
Democrats, on the other hand, benefited from having a candidate that uniquely generated instantaneous and almost unanimous support from a core Democrat constituency - blacks, of course. But they also effectively leveraged superior enrollment and ground-level organization efforts to get their voters to the polls, including social media targeting, phone banks, enrollment drives, door-to-door canvassing, bus and car rides, and inducements of various kinds, including cash and other... "things" that have appeared in anecdotal accounts, but which I happen to believe. Cheap wine is still wine, after all. Was there cheating involved? Certainly. You can't get 104% turnout in certain precincts any other way.
But the harsh reality remains for Republicans: they are a minority party, and their dependable voters - including many nominal independents - are shrinking in number.
While it may still be true that Success has a thousand fathers and Failure is an orphan, the baby still got there somehow, and it is incumbent upon whoever may be said to compose today's Republican leadership to take responsibility for it.
Interesting piece, especially the conclusion in bold. Democrats are also decreasing in number. And it is mostly attributable to the growth of independents.
Self identified conservatives are still the largest of the three groups though the number of self-described liberals is increasing. The problem with conservatives is they are decreasing and have been for four years. Still conservatives and moderates together outnumber liberals by 3 to 1, an advantage that didn't seem to help in the past two elections and may not this November. Only 9 percent call themselves very conservative, while only 6 percent consider themselves very liberal.
But within the Democrat Party the liberal wing has risen substantially since 2011 at the expense of the conservative and moderate segments. Conservatives within the Republican Party still have the lion's share, but that has also decreased somewhat in recent years, perhaps because the number of conservatives among independents is decreasing.
Then again, maybe it's all being controlled by North Korea... :laugh:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/188129/conservatives-hang-ideology-lead-thread.aspx (http://www.gallup.com/poll/188129/conservatives-hang-ideology-lead-thread.aspx)
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Romney/Ryan Wouldn't be GOP Salvation Against Clinton
PPP's newest national poll finds that Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan wouldn't exactly be the solution to the GOP's Donald Trump problem, with Romney doing even worse head to head against Hillary Clinton than Trump does.
Clinton (48/41) and Bernie Sanders (48/40) each lead Trump by solid margins, and have more modest leads over Ted Cruz as well (45/42 for Clinton, 48/41 for Sanders). Clinton (45/41) and Sanders (44/41) would each trail John Kasich. We find that a generic Democrat would lead a generic Republican for President 45/43 so when it comes to match ups against Clinton, Cruz essentially is the generic Republican with Trump being 5 points worse and Kasich being 6 points better. Much is made of Trump's unpopularity nationally and he certainly is unpopular- a 29/63 favorability rating- but Cruz isn't much better off at 30/58. Kasich's 41/39 rating makes him the only candidate in either party on positive ground.
There's been a lot of talk about Republicans possibly nominating Romney or Ryan at a contested convention, but both under perform a generic Republican candidate. Romney is incredibly unpopular nationally now- his 23/65 favorability rating is even worse than the 29/63 Trump comes in at. Clinton (45/32) and Sanders (48/31) each lead Romney by double digit margins. Ryan would trail Clinton 44/39 and Sanders 45/38, numbers not terribly dissimilar to how Trump polls against each of them. It's not clear Romney or Ryan would do much to save the party this year.
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/mitt-romney/
So if people think Romney is the answer think again.
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Just because I expose the Fact #neverTrump is a fake operation run by far Left Billionaires and Establishment who pay for manufactured authority does not in anyway make me a liberal or discredit me.
When the #neverTrump people can actually refute the Facts I have posted then get back to me, until then any insults against me like the ones you tried here I take as a sign of your surrender.
If we surrender, will you shut up and go away?
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Romney was not the answer in 2012 and he is not the answer today. He is welcome to help support a good candidate. it isn't him.
:amen: Has to be a real Conservative. One that actually will work for the American people to restore jobs and security on our border.
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If we surrender, will you shut up and go away?
Is it a requirement of this forum that every poster must genuflect to the irrational anti/neverTrumps??
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It is irrelevant if the polls are individually accurate or not. Look around you. Listen. The general truth of that poll is all around you if you have the ears to hear and the honesty to admit it. This is what we've been saying about a Trump candidacy all along. Frankly, if I were to poll my small circle of friends and family on those questions, Trump would do even worse.
You bought this rotten, vicious dog. Now you are responsible for picking up his poop. You pay for the damage he does. You have to give him his rabies shots. You keep him chained up. You own the outcome. I wash my hands of it.
Good analogy, well stated.
In my small circle of friends and family, Trump has 100% disapproval. All ages, all political categories, both genders....
I know it's anecdotal, but I don't think our experiences are unique.
This guy is deeply disliked across the spectrum. The only ones who can stomach him are those who are, for some bizarre reason, in love with him.
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Interesting piece, especially the conclusion in bold. Democrats are also decreasing in number. And it is mostly attributable to the growth of independents.
Self identified conservatives are still the largest of the three groups though the number of self-described liberals is increasing. The problem with conservatives is they are decreasing and have been for four years. Still conservatives and moderates together outnumber liberals by 3 to 1, an advantage that didn't seem to help in the past two elections and may not this November. Only 9 percent call themselves very conservative, while only 6 percent consider themselves very liberal.
But within the Democrat Party the liberal wing has risen substantially since 2011 at the expense of the conservative and moderate segments. Conservatives within the Republican Party still have the lion's share, but that has also decreased somewhat in recent years, perhaps because the number of conservatives among independents is decreasing.
Then again, maybe it's all being controlled by North Korea... :laugh:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/188129/conservatives-hang-ideology-lead-thread.aspx (http://www.gallup.com/poll/188129/conservatives-hang-ideology-lead-thread.aspx)
I don't know. That Kim-Jong Un is a devious little fellow. In fact, he might be watching us right now...
(http://cdnph.upi.com/sv/b/i/UPI-8231428500261/2015/1/14285004786175/New-North-Korea-textbook-Kim-Jong-Un-learned-to-drive-at-age-3.jpg)
More to your point, though... I think we have two rather significant challenges.
One is that the GOP lacks a coherent governing philosophy and a coherent governing leader. I like Ted Cruz a whole bunch, but he has his limitations as a candidate, as we've seen.
The bigger and more lasting challenge is the Culture: it is dominated by leftists at every turn - academia, the arts, the government, and Hollywood - they own it. For what seems like forever, Republicans have acted like that didn't matter. Well... it does.
A little counterrevolution every now and then is a good thing. And it's just about time we had one.
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Is it a requirement of this forum that every poster must genuflect to the irrational anti/neverTrumps??
Do you really think that helps matters here.
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No but I can think of a couple right off the top of my head that he can take out of the Republican column. Utah and Montana..
And probably everything between them.
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Daily-effing-kos? And you bitching about source bias?
Yeah right, he uses KOS and Huff pro and is a trump s'porter... enough said about trump.
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And probably everything between them.
Yep, we need another choice..... I like war hero Colonel Allen west... may Coburn. Preferably a Coburn/West ticket. They only need to win a few States to though this election to the House.
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No but I can think of a couple right off the top of my head that he can take out of the Republican column. Utah and Montana..
I can't believe the people of Utah and Montana especially, would willingly sacrifice their 2nd Amendment rights.
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Yeah right, he uses KOS and Huff pro and is a trump s'porter... enough said about trump.
Hey Liberal attack the messenger person. All you had to do was copy paste the title into a search engine and you could have pulled up a list of many more sites saying the same thing. But I do like exposing people who have nothing of substance to rebut what I posted.
Fact is $neverTrump is a fake operation created by Liberal Billionaires and GOP Establishments which you could have found out from many sources and the paid surrogates are also on many sites. Many of which for both are what some call conservative. When you have something substantive to rebut me with please post it, Until then I will likely draw you out like this again to show you have nothing to argue with.
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If we surrender, will you shut up and go away?
Now that there was funny! Kudos :beer:
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Hey Liberal attack the messenger person. All you had to do was copy paste the title into a search engine and you could have pulled up a list of many more sites saying the same thing. But I do like exposing people who have nothing of substance to rebut what I posted.
Fact is $neverTrump is a fake operation created by Liberal Billionaires and GOP Establishments which you could have found out from many sources and the paid surrogates are also on many sites. Many of which for both are what some call conservative. When you have something substantive to rebut me with please post it, Until then I will likely draw you out like this again to show you have nothing to argue with.
Yada yada..... and yet you choose.
Yes there are lots of Sorros funded sites.
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Yep, we need another choice..... I like war hero Colonel Allen west... may Coburn. Preferably a Coburn/West ticket. They only need to win a few States to though this election to the House.
I'd vote for West... But I thinkk we should organize and get behind one of the minor parties. They are already registered in all states
Constitution, AIP, or Libertarian...
A Conservative against two liberals will win the plurality.
And we should also emphatically align with the TEA party folks - They made huge strides in the midterm, and must continue - the Liberty Caucus in the house is nearly big enough to matter, and house and senate will be the battle lines if a liberal wins the White House.
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Do you really think that helps matters here.
For the record, I wasn't trying to be totally serious with that statement.
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I can't believe the people of Utah and Montana especially, would willingly sacrifice their 2nd Amendment rights.
I can't believe you think folks messin' with the 2nd Amendment would even mean a damn thing to the Rockies. You want our guns? Come and get them.
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I can't believe you think folks messin' with the 2nd Amendment would even mean a damn thing to the Rockies. You want our guns? Come and get them.
Then you have more faith in a Hillary Clinton administration and SCOTUS.
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I'd vote for West... But I thinkk we should organize and get behind one of the minor parties. They are already registered in all states
Constitution, AIP, or Libertarian...
A Conservative against two liberals will win the plurality.
And we should also emphatically align with the TEA party folks - They made huge strides in the midterm, and must continue - the Liberty Caucus in the house is nearly big enough to matter, and house and senate will be the battle lines if a liberal wins the White House.
Well, right now I will vote Gary Johnson.
However, would a organized third party form .. against trump.. ...I could go there. ( Third party as in a a shadow republican party...but only Tea) or a real split and the Tea party emerge.
Other options include dumping trump at the Convention...or at the very least placing a Tea Party VP on his ticket... this is all possible. Trump does not get to name his own VP if the delegates vote another. This lets us(Tea Conservatives) harness Trump for what he might be bringing in.
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Well, right now I will vote Gary Johnson.
However, would a organized third party form .. against trump.. ...I could go there. ( Third party as in a a shadow republican party...but only Tea) or a real split and the Tea party emerge.
Other options include dumping trump at the Convention...or at the very least placing a Tea Party VP on his ticket... this is all possible. Trump does not get to name his own VP if the delegates vote another. This lets us(Tea Conservatives) harness Trump for what he might be bringing in.
How much distrust would it take in Trump to get Republicans to reach out to Hillary? If this is correct it is pathetic. Better not to vote at all is my opinion. But this is just crazy. Thank you Trumpsters for putting out a phoney and a fraud who people cannot get behind.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/clinton-approached-republicans-fleeing-trump-181353139.html
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How much distrust would it take in Trump to get Republicans to reach out to Hillary? If this is correct it is pathetic. Better not to vote at all is my opinion. But this is just crazy. Thank you Trumpsters for putting out a phoney and a fraud who people cannot get behind.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/clinton-approached-republicans-fleeing-trump-181353139.html
Exactly what I've been saying. We went down this road eight years ago and look where it got us!
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Exactly what I've been saying. We went down this road eight years ago and look where it got us!
yep
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Then you have more faith in a Hillary Clinton administration and SCOTUS.
I have zero faith in either candidate.
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I have zero faith in either candidate.
One is anti-2nd Amendment, anti-military, tax and spend, leftist, sexual predator enabler and the other is not. Yet you infer they are the same.
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One is anti-2nd Amendment, anti-military, tax and spend, leftist, sexual predator enabler and the other is not. Yet you infer they are the same.
Ok...so Scam Wow might not be a sexual predator enabler... opps...see my tagline...trump loves hims some pedophile.
I thought maybe you had a point...guess not.
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I don't know. That Kim-Jong Un is a devious little fellow. In fact, he might be watching us right now...
More to your point, though... I think we have two rather significant challenges.
One is that the GOP lacks a coherent governing philosophy and a coherent governing leader. I like Ted Cruz a whole bunch, but he has his limitations as a candidate, as we've seen.
The bigger and more lasting challenge is the Culture: it is dominated by leftists at every turn - academia, the arts, the government, and Hollywood - they own it. For what seems like forever, Republicans have acted like that didn't matter. Well... it does.
A little counterrevolution every now and then is a good thing. And it's just about time we had one.
I agree on both points...well also that Kim is likely watching us right now. :laugh: But given that the culture is in the people's purview, and in many ways that's changing our political philosophy at the same time, how does a counterrevolution begin and even more, succeed? Letting Hillary take the conn for an eight year term to teach the Country a lesson is a dangerous tactic. Some, even here, believed that that theory of withholding support from Romney would do the same thing.
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One is anti-2nd Amendment, anti-military, tax and spend, leftist, sexual predator enabler and the other is not. Yet you infer they are the same.
If all you got was inference, perhaps I should have been more forceful in my reply.
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I agree on both points...well also that Kim is likely watching us right now. :laugh: But given that the culture is in the people's purview, and in many ways that's changing our political philosophy at the same time, how does a counterrevolution begin and even more, succeed? Letting Hillary take the conn for an eight year term to teach the Country a lesson is a dangerous tactic. Some, even here, believed that that theory of withholding support from Romney would do the same thing.
I doubt the confluence of trump and Hillary would yield an eight year reign. Still probably would be better than four years of trump for Conservatives.
As for Kim watching us... it is probably just porn... Hillary and the seven shortfingers.
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http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/03/08/tech-ceos-meet-secretly-with-gop-leaders-to-stop-trump/
Push polls owned by the left are still push polls. Nothing objective i.e turn out, enthusiasm. number of small donors etc supports such a poll that also pushes the democrat party's talking points. When 70 percent of all Americans agree with Trump on illegals, Muslims, economy and Nationalism this type of agitprop is nothing more than manipulation for the haters.
Odds are the polls will act just like they did for Regan, always losing badly until he won.
oh, apply common sense to this, It says the ones who could not beat Trump on the Republican side can beat Hillary.
Why, oh why, do we keep comparing the Donald to Regan?? Trump is NO Ronald Regan.
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Ok...so Scam Wow might not be a sexual predator enabler... opps...see my tagline...trump loves hims some pedophile.
I thought maybe you had a point...guess not.
You have speculation and mindless allegations which are pointless. Typical FR :bs:
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http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/03/08/tech-ceos-meet-secretly-with-gop-leaders-to-stop-trump/
Push polls owned by the left are still push polls. Nothing objective i.e turn out, enthusiasm. number of small donors etc supports such a poll that also pushes the democrat party's talking points. When 70 percent of all Americans agree with Trump on illegals, Muslims, economy and Nationalism this type of agitprop is nothing more than manipulation for the haters.
Odds are the polls will act just like they did for Regan, always losing badly until he won.
oh, apply common sense to this, It says the ones who could not beat Trump on the Republican side can beat Hillary.
Let me jar you with some real common sense:
Approximately 60% of the Republicans who voted in the primaries did not vote for Trump. Trump has actually gotten a disproportionately high number of delegates and is on track to winning the first ballot without genuine, enthusiastic grassroots support among Republicans. The only enthusiasm is in Trump himself and among the supporters who have been enthusiastic about his nastiness from the beginning of the race.
Cruz's overall favorability is higher than Trump's and higher than Hillary's. And of the 60% of those Republican primary voters who did not vote for Trump, an unknowable but still clearly high percentage are in the #NeverTrump camp. (Moreover, one investigative reporter for the WSJ has claimed that a shockingly high percentage of Trump's delegates now wish they were not pledged to vote for Trump on the first ballot.)
How many of Carson's voters do you think will support Trump with any enthusiasm? Not many, IMO. (Carson's supporters were a significant group at one point--and when Carson endorsed Trump, most of them were appalled.) And how many of Rubio's voters do you think will be enthusiastic for Trump in the general election? Not many. (Rubio has actually promised to endorse Cruz over Trump if the election is not decided on the first ballot.) And how many of Jeb's supporters do you think will support Trump? (I strongly doubt that many will support Trump at all, much less enthusiastically.) And Trump does not exactly have a treasure trove of supporters in the Kasich and Christie camps, either. (Worse still for Trump, these are mostly in the Northeast, where no Republican has good electoral odds, anyway.)
Besides, the comparison to Reagan's come-from-behind victory over Carter overlooks the fact that the #NeverMeansNeverTrump guys and gals are opposed to Trump for reasons that run very, very deep--visceral stuff. OTOH, although Reagan's conservatism was not initially popular, he was widely regarded as a decent guy--and people listened to him explain his positions calmly. Trump is not so regarded. Most of the folks who don't already lean toward Trump will simply turn him off when he pops up on TV. I respectfully submit that common sense says that Trump will be toast if he is named the nominee. (Remember: A huge percentage of Republican voters simply will not ever vote for Trump. These folks are completely unshakeable in their contempt for Trump--just like practically all of Hillary's supporters are. Trump pretends that this won't matter. But it will matter--a lot!)
In short, Cruz or Rubio obviously would have a much better chance of beating Hillary (as the polls have also suggested over and over). So, when Trump loses to Hillary, please remember that we warned you not to go to the big dance with him. Blaming us #NeverTrump won't cut any ice.
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and 89 percent rejected Cruz yet the Push polls say he can beat Hillary.
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and 89 percent rejected Cruz yet the Push polls say he can beat Hillary.
I think you are up too late.
However, let this tea party Oklahoman tell you something...... I would rather Hillary be the next Pres... than trump.
Better to lose a chess piece than the whole game.
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I can't believe the people of Utah and Montana especially, would willingly sacrifice their 2nd Amendment rights.
Utah is the most GOP state in the union, I think.
If Utah is lost, then it's a 50-state rout against Trump.
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Utah is the most GOP state in the union, I think.
If Utah is lost, then it's a 50-state rout against Trump.
Maybe not 50 State..... but trump did not even win his Home State... not even did trump win his Home District.
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I think you are up too late.
However, let this tea party Oklahoman tell you something...... I would rather Hillary be the next Pres... than trump.
Better to lose a chess piece than the whole game.
We'll lose the whole board and the pieces if a demonrat occupies the White House.
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Utah is the most GOP state in the union, I think.
If Utah is lost, then it's a 50-state rout against Trump.
If people are willing to sacrifice their 2nd Amendment rights and the SCOTUS for 20 years or more, they'll get it with Hillary Clinton.
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Well, here's some news the anti-Trump folks can embrace and celebrate after such a tough week.
Nice try. We're not the ones owning the Trump trainwreck that looms in November. The orange-headed carnival barker and his adoring fans are.
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Talked to family over the weekend:
My mother still likes Hillary.
My dad told me he doesn't care what my mom says, he's going with Trump.
My brother is a big time leftie, odd because he works as a broker in London, but can vote in US election. He was supporting Bernie Sanders, but says he's now pro-Trump, which I thought was shocking. Then later he said he wasn't voting and never votes, lol. He didn't like Cruz. Later we were discussing the transgenderism in the bathroom controversy and he said he perceived Cruz as anti-gay and that's why he lost, and people don't like social conservatism anymore. I discussed the other side of the transgenderism argument, that people won't accept physical males getting undressed with pubescent girls. I said it didn't affect me but I could see how it could concern some people, especially women, who will have to deal with physically male "transgenders" in their previously female-only spaces.
But I was pretty shocked my brother said he was pro-trump, so maybe there is something about Trump's ability to bring people across the aisle.
Hillary is an amazingly weak candidate.
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Nice try. We're not the ones owning the Trump trainwreck that looms in November. The orange-headed carnival barker and his adoring fans are.
Nicely put. Charm school graduate?
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We'll lose the whole board and the pieces if a demonrat occupies the White House.
Then blame yourself. You should have thought of that before allying with the alt-right. Trump's damaged goods because of the company he keeps and encourages.
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We'll lose the whole board and the pieces if a demonrat occupies the White House.
With Trump we will lose the majority in the Senate and possibly the majority in the House. IF the bombastic narcissist, who has no idea how government runs, decides to do whatever he wants by the power of his pen, money, liberal connections, etc., do you really think that the DEM majority is going to stop the orange egotistical maniac? Don't you see? Trump is in place to railroad any conservative and divide the GOP. He is NOT a conservative. The Clinton's have him on their side ... it doesn't matter whether Trump gets in or Hillary gets in ... they are BOTH LIBERAL! If Hillary gets in, there is a greater possibility of holding on to at least the House majority. We will have at least a small portion of our party left. The Trumptrain is heading for a train wreck and taking the GOP and the country with it!
No conservative wants to see Hillary or Trump ... I refuse to vote for either one.
#NeverTrump
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Nice try. We're not the ones owning the Trump trainwreck that looms in November. The orange-headed carnival barker and his adoring fans are.
What's the use of talking about what's going to happen in November?
It has already happened.
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Then blame yourself. You should have thought of that before allying with the alt-right. Trump's damaged goods because of the company he keeps and encourages.
We finally get a candidate with energy, enthusiasm, passion, fire and a desire to male America great again and the anti/nevers attack him and his supporters. Trump won the most votes and delegates for a reason. You may not like him, but he's going to be the GOP candidate. You can live with Hillary occupying the White House.........I can't.
Question for you anti/neverTrumps.....If Trump is so liberal why would he be held responsible for pushing 11 states toward the democrats?
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With Trump we will lose the majority in the Senate and possibly the majority in the House. IF the bombastic narcissist, who has no idea how government runs, decides to do whatever he wants by the power of his pen, money, liberal connections, etc., do you really think that the DEM majority is going to stop the orange egotistical maniac? Don't you see? Trump is in place to railroad any conservative and divide the GOP. He is NOT a conservative. The Clinton's have him on their side ... it doesn't matter whether Trump gets in or Hillary gets in ... they are BOTH LIBERAL! If Hillary gets in, there is a greater possibility of holding on to at least the House majority. We will have at least a small portion of our party left. The Trumptrain is heading for a train wreck and taking the GOP and the country with it!
No conservative wants to see Hillary or Trump ... I refuse to vote for either one.
#NeverTrump
Sorry, I'm not swayed by tinfoil speculation and allegations. Trump will eviscerate Clinton and win a landslide victory for America.
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We finally get a candidate with energy, enthusiasm, passion, fire and a desire to male America great again and the anti/nevers attack him and his supporters. Trump won the most votes and delegates for a reason. You may not like him, but he's going to be the GOP candidate. You can live with Hillary occupying the White House.........I can't.
Question for you anti/neverTrumps.....If Trump is so liberal why would he be held responsible for pushing 11 states toward the democrats?
Why buy an imitation when you can get the real thing?
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and 89 percent rejected Cruz yet the Push polls say he can beat Hillary.
As of this date, my research suggests that Cruz has gotten 29% of the popular vote, not 11%.
Anyway, I think my post #75 destroys your insinuation that Cruz could never beat Hillary. I stand by my position (and the polls) declaring that Cruz definitely could beat Hillary. Even more important for our present discussion, I also stand by my position (with or without the polls) that Trump would almost certainly get slaughtered by Hillary.
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As of this date, my research suggests that Cruz has gotten 29% of the popular vote, not 11%.
Anyway, I think my post #75 destroys your insinuation that Cruz could never beat Hillary. I stand by my position (and the polls) declaring that Cruz definitely could beat Hillary. Even more important for our present discussion, I also stand by my position (with or without the polls) that Trump would almost certainly get slaughtered by Hillary.
LOL, you are getting funny. Using logical Fallacy to boot strap and circle. The Fact is Cruz nor any other has the turn out Trump has. Every time you use that formula of who did not vote for who it looks bad on you since your guy did way worse. Your own argument works against you. All you can regurgitate is the same bogus polls that are being rightfully ignored by the vast majority of voters.
I also noticed you ignored the proof I posted to you on why so many conservatives rejected Cruz and call him a liar.
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Trump won the most votes and delegates for a reason.
It's because Democrats crossed over and voted for him. They see him as the easiest GOP candidate to beat. It's no wonder that Bill Clinton persuaded Trump to run.
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Sorry, I'm not swayed by tinfoil speculation and allegations. Trump will eviscerate Clinton and win a landslide victory for America.
Either way, we're stuck with a Democrat for the next four years.
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Question for you anti/neverTrumps.....If Trump is so liberal why would he be held responsible for pushing 11 states toward the democrats?
Because he attracts and encourages racists, nativists and xenophobes. That's the elephant in the room, Trumpling - the company your boy keeps. Decent folks know Trump will divide this nation as never before, and seek to stop it.
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As of this date, my research suggests that Cruz has gotten 29% of the popular vote, not 11%.
Anyway, I think my post #75 destroys your insinuation that Cruz could never beat Hillary. I stand by my position (and the polls) declaring that Cruz definitely could beat Hillary. Even more important for our present discussion, I also stand by my position (with or without the polls) that Trump would almost certainly get slaughtered by Hillary.
I don't see a lot of good news for either Cruz or Trump at this point in the campaign. The average of net negatives for Cruz is -25, while for Trump -37. Polls showing Hillary v Trump still give her an advantage, though even more so against Cruz. Better hope Sanders doesn't make it in, as he absolutely destroys both Cruz and Trump by average double digits. If the polls show Cruz defeating Hillary, you might let Real Clear Politics know so they can add it to their collection of polling data.
Campaign polling changes a lot, but these polls over the past two to three months almost universally spell bad news for both candidates on the GOP side. And Cruz seems to be out of time this cycle. For Cruz supporters though, if he can work on his likeability and issues a bit, I believe he has more campaigns in his future.
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But I was pretty shocked my brother said he was pro-trump, so maybe there is something about Trump's ability to bring people across the aisle.
Trump and Sanders have a lot in common.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlE5vLaymB0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlE5vLaymB0)
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It's because Democrats crossed over and voted for him. They see him as the easiest GOP candidate to beat. It's no wonder that Bill Clinton persuaded Trump to run.
When you can prove those allegations with credible corroboration and statistical evidence, I'll listen. Otherwise it is just sore loser BS.
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Either way, we're stuck with a Democrat for the next four years.
You can take your chances with Hillary, a liar, a thief, who is anti-2nd Amendment, disdains the military and is a sexual predator enabler. I prefer not to take that chance.
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When you can prove those allegations with credible corroboration and statistical evidence, I'll listen. Otherwise it is just sore loser BS.
http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presidential-race/2016/04/25/60000-democrats-switch-republican-party-pennsylvania-ahead-primary/ (http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presidential-race/2016/04/25/60000-democrats-switch-republican-party-pennsylvania-ahead-primary/)
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You can take your chances with Hillary, a liar, a thief, who is anti-2nd Amendment, disdains the military and is a sexual predator enabler. I prefer not to take that chance.
I understand. You prefer to take that chance with a buffoon who divides this country, attracts racists and xenophobes, encourages mob violence, has changed his position on just about every issue of the day, has no guiding principles to speak of, is a thin-skinned egomaniac who retaliates against anyone who "insults" (or even refuses to congratulate) him, has given money to the Clintons and their causes over the years, is a consummate crony capitalist and insider, and will make us the laughingstock of the world.
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http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presidential-race/2016/04/25/60000-democrats-switch-republican-party-pennsylvania-ahead-primary/ (http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presidential-race/2016/04/25/60000-democrats-switch-republican-party-pennsylvania-ahead-primary/)
That's it? 61,500 voters in Pennsylvania? Seems like there was quite a jump in Republican registrations in Pennsylvania. Any statistics from other states?.
61,500 Democrats have become Republicans so far this year, part of a 145,000 jump in Republican registrations since the fall 2015 election, according to state figures analyzed by both parties. It’s more new Republicans than in the previous four years combined.
Reagan won with democrat crossover.
How and when did Clinton convince Trump to run?
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Nicely put. Charm school graduate?
Even better. I wrote the curriculum.
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Even better. I wrote the curriculum.
LOL!