Ukraine 5

[mystery-ak]

Trump Effect: Zelensky Suggests ‘NATO Umbrella’ Protection Could End ‘Hot War’, Willing to Cede Land and Seek Return ‘Diplomatically’

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has suggested that the “hot war” with Russia could end if Kyiv is guaranteed protection under a “NATO umbrella” while the country seeks to regain territories currently controlled by Moscow “diplomatically”.

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2024/11/30/pathway-to-peace-zelensky-suggests-nato-umbrella-protection-for-ukraine-could-end-hot-war-vows-to-work-with-trump-directly/

[Hoodat]

Putin won't agree to that.  He wants it all.

[Kamaji]

Trump Effect: Zelensky Suggests ‘NATO Umbrella’ Protection Could End ‘Hot War’, Willing to Cede Land and Seek Return ‘Diplomatically’

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has suggested that the “hot war” with Russia could end if Kyiv is guaranteed protection under a “NATO umbrella” while the country seeks to regain territories currently controlled by Moscow “diplomatically”.

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2024/11/30/pathway-to-peace-zelensky-suggests-nato-umbrella-protection-for-ukraine-could-end-hot-war-vows-to-work-with-trump-directly/

How is this the “Trump effect”?  Zelenskyy is saying that he’s wiling to concede current Russian control over some Ukraine territory, from which Ukraine will then seek to remove the Russians by nonviolent means, but in exchange he wants what amounts to immediate NATO membership for Ukraine inasmuch as NATO would guarantee Ukraine’s territorial integrity. 


All yall who have been hyperventilating over WWIII must surely see that this would necessarily result in US troops directly fighting Russian troops, and possibly North Korean troops, and would be much more likely to lead to what you’ve been hyperventilating over than would providing Ukraine with the means to continue defending itself from the orcs.

[Timber Rattler]

Putin won't agree to that.  He wants it all.

True enough, and Trump is about to find out the hard way that his pal Putin is a bad faith negotiator and a liar, whose word cannot be trusted on anything.

[Timber Rattler]

All yall who have been hyperventilating over WWIII must surely see that this would necessarily result in US troops directly fighting Russian troops, and possibly North Korean troops, and would be much more likely to lead to what you’ve been hyperventilating over than would providing Ukraine with the means to continue defending itself from the orcs.

Yep, but that's the idea that trump's guy Kellogg has more or less been pitching, with potential NATO membership in 20 years, which is the ultimate kicking of the can down the road, counting on Putin being dead by then.

[Kamaji]

Yep, but that's the idea that trump's guy Kellogg has more or less been pitching, with potential NATO membership in 20 years, which is the ultimate kicking of the can down the road, counting on Putin being dead by then.

I rather doubt Ukraine will agree to concede Russian control of its territory now in exchange for NATO protection 20 years from now.

That is akin to agreeing to pay today for a hamburger on Tuesday.

[240B]

Putin won't agree to that.  He wants it all.

Putin has no choice. The Ruble is almost worthless. The Koreans are backing out of the conflict. Putin is running out of oil, money, troops, and equipment. Even if Putin so-called 'won', he does not have to money or the manpower to 'occupy' Ukraine.

Putin has bitten off more than he can chew.

In fact, allowing Russia to attempt to occupy Ukraine would be the ultimate trap. The inevitable nationwide Ukrainian internal insurgency would erase what is left of the Russian Army. Russian soldiers in Ukraine would be sitting ducks.

[Hoodat]

DAY 117 - UKRAINE'S INVASION OF RUSSIA

https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1862893883228586210

[Hoodat]

https://twitter.com/inside_nk/status/1862937924129456301

[Hoodat]

from r/UkraineWarVideoReport

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1h3puet/something_is_exploding_bryansk_region/

[Hoodat]

https://twitter.com/officejjsmart/status/1862750028906865015

[Hoodat]

Tbilisi

https://twitter.com/ThomasVLinge/status/1862979979560050764

[Hoodat]

US suspends strategic partnership with Georgia after EU membership talks halted

Giselle Ruhiyyih Ewing and Gabriel Gavin  |  11/30/2024 05:26 PM EST


Thousands of protesters have poured onto the streets in the days since Georgian Prime Minister Irakli Kobakhidze announced the country's suspension of EU accession negotiations. | Giorgi Arjevanidze/AFP via Getty Images

The United States suspended its strategic partnership with Georgia on Saturday, condemning the country’s decision to pause its efforts toward accession to the European Union amid unprecedented protests against the move.

“The decision by Georgian Dream to suspend Georgia’s EU accession process goes against the promise to the Georgian people enshrined in their constitution to pursue full integration into the European Union and NATO,” the State Department wrote in a statement. “By suspending Georgia’s EU accession process, Georgian Dream has rejected the opportunity for closer ties with Europe and made Georgia more vulnerable to the Kremlin.”

Georgian Prime Minister Irakli Kobakhidze announced the suspension of EU accession negotiations on Thursday after the European Parliament criticized the country’s recent election as “neither free nor fair.” Thousands of protesters poured onto the streets in the days since, with sources on the ground telling POLITICO that part of the Georgian parliament building had caught on fire Saturday night. Georgian police have been quick to clamp down, using water cannons, tear gas and pepper spray to quell demonstrations.

In its statement, the State Department condemned the “excessive use of force by police,” noting that the Georgian people “overwhelmingly support integration with Europe.”

Georgian media also reported on Saturday that Georgian ambassador to the U.S. David Zalkaliani resigned from his post. Zalkaliani has served as the country’s U.S. ambassador since April 2022.

Tensions in Georgia have escalated since the Moscow-aligned Georgian Dream party claimed victory in the country’s Oct. 26 election — a victory that opposition parties have contested, alleging election fraud. While according to some polls, nearly 80 percent of Georgians support EU membership, the government has increasingly moved to align itself with Russia, further estranging itself from the Western alliance. EU leaders put Georgia’s membership process on hold on Oct. 30, saying the country had “gone backwards” in light of its recent election.  .  .

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/11/30/us-suspends-partnership-georgia-00192044


A repeat of Ukraine 2013.  It's the only play Russia knows.

[Hoodat]

from r/UkraineWarVideoReport

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1h3kodq/colonel_oleksandr_lebedev_deputy_commander_of_the/

[Kamaji]

from r/UkraineWarVideoReport

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1h3kodq/colonel_oleksandr_lebedev_deputy_commander_of_the/

Another Orc down.

[Hoodat]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDHjw29jjTQ

[Hoodat]

This is a political masterstroke by President Zelensky

Kyiv is signalling to Trump that it is willing to talk under the right conditions. But what will happen when Putin refuses? More aid, surely

Hamish de Bretton-Gordon  |  30 November 2024  |  11:43am GMT

For some time, the ground has been shifting in Kyiv as Ukraine braces for a potential Trump presidency and his much-touted promise of a ceasefire within 24 hours of taking office on 20 January 2025.

Senior figures, including Ukraine’s former commander of its armed forces and Ambassador to Britain, Valerii Zaluzhnyi, have openly suggested that reclaiming all of Ukraine’s territory may no longer be feasible in the short-term given the current level of Western support. They foresee a future in which some of the battle will be fought more diplomatically than militarily, with the land being returned in some latter political negotiation when Ukraine is more secure.

That may be true. Either way, for the first time, President Zelensky has indicated in an interview with Sky News that he might be prepared to cede some land to Russia in exchange for a NATO “umbrella” for protection. This echoes ideas put forward by his friend and former UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson in a recent interview on The Telegraph’s Ukraine: The Latest podcast. Johnson proposed that the UK should lead NATO forces to secure peace with boots on the ground, deterring further Russian aggression. Under this scenario, Ukraine would not yet be part of NATO but would benefit from its protection.

This would open the door for full NATO membership in, say, 20 years – an idea also suggested by Trump – and give Zelensky, along with future Ukrainian governments, the chance to diplomatically pursue the return of Russian-occupied territory from a position of relative strength. Even Putin might find this palatable, as it would ensure Ukraine remains outside NATO during his lifetime, thus protecting his ego.  .  .

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/11/30/this-is-a-political-masterstroke-by-president-zelensky/


Yeah, right.  Putin will go for this just as Stalin went for giving back Eastern Poland after WWII.

[Kamaji]

This is a political masterstroke by President Zelensky

Kyiv is signalling to Trump that it is willing to talk under the right conditions. But what will happen when Putin refuses? More aid, surely

Hamish de Bretton-Gordon  |  30 November 2024  |  11:43am GMT

For some time, the ground has been shifting in Kyiv as Ukraine braces for a potential Trump presidency and his much-touted promise of a ceasefire within 24 hours of taking office on 20 January 2025.

Senior figures, including Ukraine’s former commander of its armed forces and Ambassador to Britain, Valerii Zaluzhnyi, have openly suggested that reclaiming all of Ukraine’s territory may no longer be feasible in the short-term given the current level of Western support. They foresee a future in which some of the battle will be fought more diplomatically than militarily, with the land being returned in some latter political negotiation when Ukraine is more secure.

That may be true. Either way, for the first time, President Zelensky has indicated in an interview with Sky News that he might be prepared to cede some land to Russia in exchange for a NATO “umbrella” for protection. This echoes ideas put forward by his friend and former UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson in a recent interview on The Telegraph’s Ukraine: The Latest podcast. Johnson proposed that the UK should lead NATO forces to secure peace with boots on the ground, deterring further Russian aggression. Under this scenario, Ukraine would not yet be part of NATO but would benefit from its protection.

This would open the door for full NATO membership in, say, 20 years – an idea also suggested by Trump – and give Zelensky, along with future Ukrainian governments, the chance to diplomatically pursue the return of Russian-occupied territory from a position of relative strength. Even Putin might find this palatable, as it would ensure Ukraine remains outside NATO during his lifetime, thus protecting his ego.  .  .

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/11/30/this-is-a-political-masterstroke-by-president-zelensky/


Yeah, right.  Putin will go for this just as Stalin went for giving back Eastern Poland after WWII.

So, in exchange for leaving Russian troops on Ukraine soil, NATO - i.e., the U.S. - will commit to having thousands of its own troops on Ukraine soil, cheek by jowl with Russian troops.  Anyone who worries about WWIII and a nuclear exchange should run, not walk, away from this sort of plan.

[SZonian]

Another Orc down.

I'm going to say something that may be unpopular, but as a veteran, I've had just about enough. Seeing hundreds of thousands of people being maimed and killed is not "sport" where one cheers for one "team" over another. AFAIC, this whole damned thing stinks to high heaven and the US is most likely responsible for it.

Putin deserves all that he has coming to him, I won't argue that. He's ultimately responsible for the conduct of his military and what is going on. It is his government's responsibility to ensure their military is operating in a manner prescribed by the Laws of Armed Conflict.
 
But I am going to disagree about the description of this soldier as an "orc". He was most likely an honorable soldier simply following orders, just like countless thousands of others on both sides. From what I can find about him on line: "Lebedev was not only a soldier, but also a teacher. Until his death, he worked at the Rostov Institute of the All-Russian State University of Justice, where he held the rank of associate professor and the degree of Candidate of Military Sciences. His specialization was “Fire training”.

While there are those who are/were criminals, demeaning these soldiers with pejoratives, without proof of their criminality, and who are dying in a conflict not of their making is despicable.

And before anyone gets their knickers all in a knot about "unlawful orders", besides attacking/killing non-combatants, I couldn't tell you what constitutes an unlawful order in Russia. IMO, as far as these soldiers are concerned, while they may not agree with what's going on, they're in it and have to deal with it as best they can. Just like I had to when deployed for DS/DS. While I didn't agree with the purpose, I did my duty and followed orders.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

I'm going to say something that may be unpopular, but as a veteran, I've had just about enough. Seeing hundreds of thousands of people being maimed and killed is not "sport" where one cheers for one "team" over another. AFAIC, this whole damned thing stinks to high heaven and the US is most likely responsible for it.

Putin deserves all that he has coming to him, I won't argue that. He's ultimately responsible for the conduct of his military and what is going on. It is his government's responsibility to ensure their military is operating in a manner prescribed by the Laws of Armed Conflict.
 
But I am going to disagree about the description of this soldier as an "orc". He was most likely an honorable soldier simply following orders, just like countless thousands of others on both sides. From what I can find about him on line: "Lebedev was not only a soldier, but also a teacher. Until his death, he worked at the Rostov Institute of the All-Russian State University of Justice, where he held the rank of associate professor and the degree of Candidate of Military Sciences. His specialization was “Fire training”.

While there are those who are/were criminals, demeaning these soldiers with pejoratives, without proof of their criminality, and who are dying in a conflict not of their making is despicable.

And before anyone gets their knickers all in a knot about "unlawful orders", besides attacking/killing non-combatants, I couldn't tell you what constitutes an unlawful order in Russia. IMO, as far as these soldiers are concerned, while they may not agree with what's going on, they're in it and have to deal with it as best they can. Just like I had to when deployed for DS/DS. While I didn't agree with the purpose, I did my duty and followed orders.

Thank you for this.

I wrote something somewhat related a few weeks ago:

"I remember in the 80's there was a scandalous and notorious movie, Faces of Death, purported to show real deaths, but actually many of which were fake come to find out. And now, just casually browsing the web, i get to watch the gruesome deaths of people up close many sure deserved it as they were the enemy, but still they die in highly graphic ways, in HD quality in ways we'd be horrified at in the 80's.

A brave new world.
ReplyQuoteNotify"

There's now a large segment of the population watching with glee, the real life deaths of people in HD. Indeed cheering them on and dehumanizing them, calling them Orcs and so on. This will find it's way to children, and they will internalize this, and they will be running the world in a few years. I feel like this will all lead to a truly much more heartless vicious world. One day no truly deplorable act of violence will affect anyone.

[Kamaji]

I'm going to say something that may be unpopular, but as a veteran, I've had just about enough. Seeing hundreds of thousands of people being maimed and killed is not "sport" where one cheers for one "team" over another. AFAIC, this whole damned thing stinks to high heaven and the US is most likely responsible for it.

Putin deserves all that he has coming to him, I won't argue that. He's ultimately responsible for the conduct of his military and what is going on. It is his government's responsibility to ensure their military is operating in a manner prescribed by the Laws of Armed Conflict.
 
But I am going to disagree about the description of this soldier as an "orc". He was most likely an honorable soldier simply following orders, just like countless thousands of others on both sides. From what I can find about him on line: "Lebedev was not only a soldier, but also a teacher. Until his death, he worked at the Rostov Institute of the All-Russian State University of Justice, where he held the rank of associate professor and the degree of Candidate of Military Sciences. His specialization was “Fire training”.

While there are those who are/were criminals, demeaning these soldiers with pejoratives, without proof of their criminality, and who are dying in a conflict not of their making is despicable.

And before anyone gets their knickers all in a knot about "unlawful orders", besides attacking/killing non-combatants, I couldn't tell you what constitutes an unlawful order in Russia. IMO, as far as these soldiers are concerned, while they may not agree with what's going on, they're in it and have to deal with it as best they can. Just like I had to when deployed for DS/DS. While I didn't agree with the purpose, I did my duty and followed orders.

You’re entitled to your opinion.  Everyone has at least one.

For me, there is nothing honorable about being a leader in a military that intentionally targets - repeatedly and as a matter of policy - civilians solely for the terroristic threat such attacks provide. 

He may have been honorable at some distant point in the past, but he willingly sacrificed his honor on the altar of Russian aggression.

So, no, I respectfully disagree.  He was not an honorable warrior who found himself in terrible circumstances not of his own making; he was an orc who played a large part in creating those terrible circumstances. 

But then, I guess he wasn’t nearly as evil as Vindmann. 

[Hoodat]

Chilling video shows Russians in nightclub rounded up and conscripted for desperate Putin

It comes after Russia suffered 2,000 casualties in one day as fighting in Ukraine intensifies.

Charlie Bradley  |  16:36 ET, Sat, Nov 30, 2024  |  UPDATED: 09:38 ET, Sun, Dec 1, 2024

Shocking footage appears to show Russians being rounded up in a nightclub to be conscripted for the war in Ukraine.

Shared by Igor Sushko on X, the footage shows young Russians being told to sit down in a nightclub where the music appears to have been turned off.

A police officer is seen walking around the room, seemingly looking for young men, who are outraged at Vladimir Putin's plot to send additional men to the front line.

Mr Sushko said: "Putin regime enforcers raided three largest Moscow nightclubs on Friday night — Simachev, Mutabor/ARMA, and Mono.  .  .  .

https://www.the-express.com/news/world-news/156263/russia-nightclub-conscription-vladimir-putin-ukraine-war

[Hoodat]

The value of cheap drones.  $40 billion spent on these, and there would no longer be a Russian Army.

from r/UkraineWarVideoReport

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1h45cll/ukrainian_soldiers_of_the_92nd_assault_brigade/

[Hoodat]

This is Estonia saying this:



Kaja Kallas on Foreign Troops in Ukraine: “Nothing Can Be Ruled Out”

Ivan Khomenko  |  Dec 01, 2024  |  18:10

High Representative of the European Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy Kaja Kallas has stated that the possibility of deploying foreign troops to Ukraine should not be dismissed.

Speaking to ANSA in her first interview since assuming the role, Kallas suggested that Europe could play a significant role if a ceasefire agreement required international oversight.

“The discussion has revolved around which countries might be willing to send soldiers to Ukraine. I believe we must maintain a certain degree of strategic ambiguity and avoid ruling anything out,” Kallas said. She added that any decision would ultimately rest with Ukraine.

The High Representative also highlighted ongoing engagement with the incoming US administration and cautioned against underestimating the challenges facing Russia. “Ukraine is enduring significant difficulties, but Moscow is grappling with economic sanctions, deficits, inflation, and workforce shortages,” she noted. Kallas emphasized that continued support for Ukraine aligns with US interests, warning that a Russian victory could bolster China, Iran, and North Korea.  .  .  .

https://united24media.com/latest-news/kaja-kallas-on-foreign-troops-in-ukraine-nothing-can-be-ruled-out-4147

[SZonian]

You’re entitled to your opinion.  Everyone has at least one.

For me, there is nothing honorable about being a leader in a military that intentionally targets - repeatedly and as a matter of policy - civilians solely for the terroristic threat such attacks provide. 

He may have been honorable at some distant point in the past, but he willingly sacrificed his honor on the altar of Russian aggression.

So, no, I respectfully disagree.  He was not an honorable warrior who found himself in terrible circumstances not of his own making; he was an orc who played a large part in creating those terrible circumstances. 

But then, I guess he wasn’t nearly as evil as Vindmann.

Meh, you have no idea how large a part this soldier played in creating circumstances. Conscripted and even professional soldiers have no say in this, you continue to posit they do. Based on your criteria, US servicemembers in the Iraq invasion should have been described as "orcs" and their deaths celebrated. They willingly sacrificed their honor on the altar of American aggression.