Author Topic: 1938 and 2024: Whom do you stand with?  (Read 6840 times)

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Offline AllThatJazzZ

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Re: 1938 and 2024: Whom do you stand with?
« Reply #50 on: April 18, 2024, 10:17:07 pm »
Here's the unpleasant truth for RiV and others:

There is no solution that the Palestinians are willing to accept that  would be reasonable for Israel to accept.  And/or that hasn't already been tried and failed.

In some ways, Israel dealing with the Palestinians/Hamas is like is trying to deal with the radical BLM activists.   Their demands are so unreasonable that it is impossible to resolve them.

Word. It's that simple, y'all. There is no way these people will ever be satisfied. Their hatred comes from a place deeper than even they understand.


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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: 1938 and 2024: Whom do you stand with?
« Reply #51 on: April 18, 2024, 10:24:57 pm »


Well, I'm an adult and more than ready to hear your thoughts. This is not snark...some of the greatest minds in history have tried to resolve this conflict. It takes two sides to tango, imho. I would like to hear your detailed plan. :laugh:

The funny thing is that nobody has a plan.  Every single peace plan people have come up with has foundered on the unreasonableness of the Palestinian position.

Offline LMAO

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Re: 1938 and 2024: Whom do you stand with?
« Reply #52 on: April 18, 2024, 10:26:10 pm »

Not exactly the first time she's done that, either...

Lol...no it is not

It's similar to the left demanding an "honest' discussion about race
« Last Edit: April 18, 2024, 10:27:28 pm by LMAO »
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Online DCPatriot

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Re: 1938 and 2024: Whom do you stand with?
« Reply #53 on: April 18, 2024, 10:35:53 pm »
Here's the unpleasant truth for RiV and others:

There is no solution that the Palestinians are willing to accept that  would be reasonable for Israel to accept.  And/or that hasn't already been tried and failed.

In some ways, Israel dealing with the Palestinians/Hamas is like is trying to deal with the radical BLM activists.   Their demands are so unreasonable that it is impossible to resolve them.

This argument/debate has absolutely nothing to do with Palestinians per se.

They're the current antagonist.  Like a baseball season of 162 games is a series of 3 or 4 games and then you get another team to go against.

Iran's people are Persians.  Technically, they're not Arabs. 

Always assumed the cause of universal hatred/dislike of the Jewish People was one born out of jealousy...or a innate hatred of being on the receiving end of somebody's greed and lack of compassion.

The Jewish businessman...from pawn broker to banker to jeweler/watchmaker consistently displays a lack of empathy or a surplus of apathy toward a man's predicament.  Complete indifference to another's plight.

But...is it wrong to behave that way, when you are struggling to achieve success for yourself and your own family?

In our own American culture the very same thing is happening between the Asian communities and "...the rest of us".

It's the reason Harvard changed the rules on Asian admissions...the same reasons Washington State or Oregon has terminated the bar exam to get a law license.  The dumbing down of society in the name of inclusion.

Now it's happening in the medical field too.

It's maddening to have your opposition not give an inch on their own volition.  Especially when you don't have access to your own clean water or 6 different brands of a product from which to choose at the local markets.

It's much easier to hate somebody for keeping you down than it is to clean up your own house/local governments.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2024, 10:38:02 pm by DCPatriot »
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Offline Wingnut

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Re: 1938 and 2024: Whom do you stand with?
« Reply #54 on: April 18, 2024, 10:45:47 pm »
How can neither of you be interested in even discussing a new path that could actually lead to regional alliances, peace, security and prosperity for the Israeli people?  How do you equate continuing a doomed strategy with loving the Jewish people?

@Wingnut  @mountaineer

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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: 1938 and 2024: Whom do you stand with?
« Reply #55 on: April 18, 2024, 10:58:37 pm »
How can neither of you be interested in even discussing a new path that could actually lead to regional alliances, peace, security and prosperity for the Israeli people? 

I can't believe RiV, of all people, messed this up.

The one major foreign policy achievement of the Trump Administration, and maybe of all of his achievements the one most deserving of respect, was the Abraham Accords.  Trump and/or his team recognized that if you can't cut a reasonable deal with the unreasonable Palestinians, you just try to cut deals with everybody else in the region.  And it worked.   He essentially isolated the Palestinians from much of their Arabic support, and Saudi Arabia is even now very clearly still interested in maintaining positive relations with Israel.

Quote
How do you equate continuing a doomed strategy with loving the Jewish people?

Precisely!  Which is why expecting Israel to continue the doomed strategy of just letting the Palestinians lob rockets into Israel, and launching terrorist attacks whenever the mood struck them, had to be abandoned.  Because it was a strategy that doomed the Jewish people.

What was needed instead was this new strategy of simply eliminating Hamas on the battlefield.   Just wipe it out in one brutal campaign so that the days of daily terrorism and rockets finally could be ended.

.


Offline the OlLine Rebel

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Re: 1938 and 2024: Whom do you stand with?
« Reply #56 on: April 18, 2024, 11:27:35 pm »
Word. It's that simple, y'all. There is no way these people will ever be satisfied. Their hatred comes from a place deeper than even they understand.

IOW, The Issue is never the issue!

As usual, it’s not really about having land.  That’s a cover for what it really is - hatred of Jews and desire to force Islam on everyone.
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Offline ScottinVA

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Re: 1938 and 2024: Whom do you stand with?
« Reply #57 on: April 19, 2024, 12:02:55 am »
From the standpoint of the Israelis, how exactly are they to negotiate with rabid animals whose basic requirement is the extermination of Israel and ever Jew who populates it?  To the Palis, the only subject open for negotiation is how that extermination is to be accomplished.

Online roamer_1

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Re: 1938 and 2024: Whom do you stand with?
« Reply #58 on: April 19, 2024, 12:26:40 am »
Always assumed the cause of universal hatred/dislike of the Jewish People was one born out of jealousy...or a innate hatred of being on the receiving end of somebody's greed and lack of compassion.

The Jewish businessman...from pawn broker to banker to jeweler/watchmaker consistently displays a lack of empathy or a surplus of apathy toward a man's predicament.  Complete indifference to another's plight.

But...is it wrong to behave that way, when you are struggling to achieve success for yourself and your own family?


That's total crap.

Quote
It's much easier to hate somebody for keeping you down than it is to clean up your own house/local governments.

That last sentence is the only thing you said that is true.
There is no such thing as a 'palestinian'. It's bullshit.
There is no real bias against Arabs in Israel. many, many Arabs participate in Israel, on the street, in business, and in government. The entire 'bitch' is a concoction for political leverage.

If people actually read history, that would be well known.

Online Hoodat

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Re: 1938 and 2024: Whom do you stand with?
« Reply #59 on: April 19, 2024, 12:45:41 am »
@mountaineer

You accuse me of hating Jews when I'm trying to find a better path to peace and security for Israel.

No, you're not.  You have been asked repeatedly how Israel should respond to Hamas.  And I have yet to hear a single answer from you that aligns with Israel's survival.
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Online Hoodat

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Re: 1938 and 2024: Whom do you stand with?
« Reply #60 on: April 19, 2024, 12:49:01 am »
When folks are ready to have an adult conversation about this, beyond the charming snark and insults, I'll happily provide a proposed path, complete with landmarks and a map.  But, no one here appears ready for such a conversation.  I'll check the room temperature from time to time to see if anything has changed.

QED
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Online Hoodat

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Re: 1938 and 2024: Whom do you stand with?
« Reply #61 on: April 19, 2024, 12:54:06 am »
BWAHAHAHAHA!!

What a classic RiV dodge.  First, demand an open and honest discussion about an issue. Then, when we indicate our willingness to do exactly that, she refuses to have the discussion she was just demanding.

Not exactly the first time she's done that, either...

@Maj. Bill Martin

To be fair, she did earlier call for the West Bank to be re-annexed by Jordan, and for the Egyptian Army to re-occupy Gaza.  And also for the Golan Heights to be given back to Syria so that Hezbollah could rain artillery shells onto Israeli civilians from the high ground.

This is her solution to bring 'peace' to the Jews.  Not really anything there for Palestinians though.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

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"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

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Online Hoodat

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Re: 1938 and 2024: Whom do you stand with?
« Reply #62 on: April 19, 2024, 12:57:15 am »
How can neither of you be interested in even discussing a new path that could actually lead to regional alliances, peace, security and prosperity for the Israeli people?  How do you equate continuing a doomed strategy with loving the Jewish people?

@Wingnut  @mountaineer

We have been advocating exactly that for months now, while you have criticized every single action Israel has taken to secure that peace and prosperity for its people.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

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Online Hoodat

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Re: 1938 and 2024: Whom do you stand with?
« Reply #63 on: April 19, 2024, 01:02:37 am »
I can't believe RiV, of all people, messed this up.

The one major foreign policy achievement of the Trump Administration, and maybe of all of his achievements the one most deserving of respect, was the Abraham Accords.  Trump and/or his team recognized that if you can't cut a reasonable deal with the unreasonable Palestinians, you just try to cut deals with everybody else in the region.  And it worked.   He essentially isolated the Palestinians from much of their Arabic support, and Saudi Arabia is even now very clearly still interested in maintaining positive relations with Israel.

This has not gone unnoticed.  For someone with such a hard-on for everything Trump, it remarkable how she has offered zero acknowledgement of Trump's success with Abraham.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Online Hoodat

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Re: 1938 and 2024: Whom do you stand with?
« Reply #64 on: April 19, 2024, 01:03:22 am »
From the standpoint of the Israelis, how exactly are they to negotiate with rabid animals whose basic requirement is the extermination of Israel and ever Jew who populates it?  To the Palis, the only subject open for negotiation is how that extermination is to be accomplished.

Truth.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: 1938 and 2024: Whom do you stand with?
« Reply #65 on: April 19, 2024, 02:05:33 am »
From the standpoint of the Israelis, how exactly are they to negotiate with rabid animals whose basic requirement is the extermination of Israel and ever Jew who populates it?  To the Palis, the only subject open for negotiation is how that extermination is to be accomplished.

Unfortunately, you won't get an answer to that question.

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: 1938 and 2024: Whom do you stand with?
« Reply #66 on: April 19, 2024, 02:09:33 am »
This has not gone unnoticed.  For someone with such a hard-on for everything Trump, it remarkable how she has offered zero acknowledgement of Trump's success with Abraham.

Given a choice between promoting Trump and criticizing Israel, she went with the latter.

Interesting.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2024, 03:25:16 am by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: 1938 and 2024: Whom do you stand with?
« Reply #67 on: April 19, 2024, 03:53:40 am »
Uh-oh.  They are riled up tonight .....  88devil


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Re: 1938 and 2024: Whom do you stand with?
« Reply #68 on: April 19, 2024, 05:16:46 am »
Uh-oh.  They are riled up tonight .....  88devil



@Right_in_Virginia

LOL!  It's like you emptied a bag of popcorn into a commercial fish farm tank! 

Perfect pic BTW...    :beer:
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Re: 1938 and 2024: Whom do you stand with?
« Reply #69 on: April 19, 2024, 05:22:00 am »
Everything anyone needs to know about militant Muzzies can be summed up on 11 Sept 2001. 

None can be trusted or given an inch.  And the half measures being practiced by Bibi of late is a bad strategy.    They are like roaches...  Finish them off!!!!

I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

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Re: 1938 and 2024: Whom do you stand with?
« Reply #70 on: April 19, 2024, 05:34:23 am »
Everything anyone needs to know about militant Muzzies can be summed up on 11 Sept 2001. 

None can be trusted or given an inch. And the half measures being practiced by Bibi of late is a bad strategy.    They are like roaches...  Finish them off!!!!

Disagree my FRiend.  Abiding by the West's ridiculous demands in proportionate warfare Bibi continues to allow the world to see what kind of enemy Israel is dealing with.
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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: 1938 and 2024: Whom do you stand with?
« Reply #71 on: April 19, 2024, 06:22:25 am »
@Maj. Bill Martin

To be fair, she did earlier call for the West Bank to be re-annexed by Jordan, and for the Egyptian Army to re-occupy Gaza.  And also for the Golan Heights to be given back to Syria so that Hezbollah could rain artillery shells onto Israeli civilians from the high ground.

This is her solution to bring 'peace' to the Jews.  Not really anything there for Palestinians though.

@Hoodat

I didn't see that in this thread so I'll address it now. But basically this falls under the category of already tried and failed.

First, when Egypt had Gaza, and Jordan had the West Bank, and Syria had the Golan Heights, the result was them announcing a war of extermination against Israel in 1967.  So obviously, that combination of circumstances didn't work the first time.

But overlooking that, maybe she could argue that those countries wouldn't go to war against Israel now if those lands were returned to them. The problem with that is that Egypt wants nothing to do with Gaza, and Jordan wants nothing to do with the West Bank. And why would they? Both regions are poort, and are hot beds of Islamic fundamentalism and potential terrorism. Islamic fundamentalists are fans of neither the Egyptian nor Jordanian governments.  Both have flatly rejected absorbing those two regions. So that part of a peace plan never even gets off the ground.

The second problem is, as you note, the Palestinians essentially get nothing out of this. Even if we were to ignore reality and assume that Egypt and Jordan would take over those lands, all that means is the Palestinians would exchange one ruler for another, and not one of their own choosing.  Both Hamas and the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank have made it very clear that they do not want to be part of either Jordan or Egypt

In other words, returning Gaza to Egypt and the West Bank to Jordan is a complete non-starter no matter how you look at it.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2024, 07:25:04 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Online Sighlass

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Re: 1938 and 2024: Whom do you stand with?
« Reply #72 on: April 19, 2024, 06:43:24 am »
Why did Abraham have to sleep with Hagar ? Sarai/Sarah why did you throw Hagar at Abraham ? Abraham why didn't you trust the promise given you ?

Gotta rank up there with Adam and Eve... mistakes us foolish humans make. Would I have done better, probable not.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2024, 06:47:35 am by Sighlass »
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Offline AllThatJazzZ

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Re: 1938 and 2024: Whom do you stand with?
« Reply #73 on: April 19, 2024, 06:53:16 am »
Disagree my FRiend.  Abiding by the West's ridiculous demands in proportionate warfare Bibi continues to allow the world to see what kind of enemy Israel is dealing with.

@DCPatriot

You act like we're dealing with a sane, sensible world. The world is frothing at the mouth toward Israel. They're suffering from IDS, and there's no cure.


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