Ford “Drastically” Cutting EV Lightning Workforce Hours

[banddag]

Your BIL is saying what he needs to say to keep his job and keep those defense dept dollars flowing.  But what he says about EVs being superior to diesel is complete bullshit.  How far can an M1 go on batteries?  And how do you charge it 30 miles into enemy territory with no power lines in sight?  A fuel truck can make it there in an hour.  Repairing power lines and bringing in a charging platform would take weeks.  Not only that, every electric vehicle in an entire battle zone can be taken out with one EMP device.

If your BIL is really saying this, then he should be ashamed of himself for wasting US taxpayer dollars on such a poorly thought out policy.  Why not start out with the Air Force first to see how viable electric planes and helicopters work out.

I never said tanks or at least should have been more specific. I am talking about support vehicles and such and very light armor vehicles such as humvees.

1. EV's give off no or minimal sound, no or very little heat signature like a diesel.
2. In Gulf War 1 each soldier had the equivalant of 45 lbs of electronic gear. Currently each soldier has the equivalent of 2000 lbs of electronic gear.  EV's can supply this electric need w/o having to bring up generators and such 
3. Battery range is going up every year.  Toyota said in a presss release their 2026 ev's will have a 600 mile range.
4. As I mentioned before the military is working on batteries that can be changed out in the field due to damage or recharging with no tools in two minutes in less.
5. Every single military contractors from every country at the Qatar show had military ev;s including China in their lineup.
6. You said every ev military vehicle can be taken out with an emp. How do you know this?  You are speaking out of your arse.

You know jack crap what they are working on, what their capabilities are  but yet you are an armchair general. What I posted above is the minimal info my bil would give me. You are another person who hates ev's because conservatives have been told to hate ev's.

[mountaineer]

You are another person who hates ev's because conservatives have been told to hate ev's.

No. This conservative doesn't "hate EVs," and I doubt anyone at TBR hates inanimate objects like electric vehicles. We also tend to think for ourselves. No one has told me what to think about electric vehicles.

This conservative knows that an EV is not practical for where I live or my needs. This conservative doesn't want the government to take away my gasoline-powered vehicle and force me either to stay home, walk 7 miles to the closest grocery store, or buy an extremely expensive and inefficient vehicle that is inappropriate for my climate and terrain.

[Kamaji]

1. Lithium is not mined in Africa. 90% of Teslas lithium comes from Australia.

2. China and Africa just signed a pact to stop using child labor in the cobalt mines.

3. You do know Cobalt is used in every single battery powered item in your house? Computers, tv's, cell phones, ice cars, smoke detectors and your wifes 12" mandingo vibrator powered by 4 d cells.

Who - other than you - said lithium was mined in Africa?


I stand by my sobriquet from last night.  Thank you for proving how appropriate it is. 

[banddag]

Personally, I'd rather drive a car that was fueled with petroleum products derived from a mine with a much smaller environmental footprint than a lithium mine, and that wasn't built with the fruits of child slave labor - African child slave labor, at that.  But then, I'm not a liberal.

I was tired and read your post wrong and I was on my phone wich makes the whole screen hard to see. 

As I mentioned cobalt is used in every single electronic item in your house-the fruits of child slave labor. If you feel so guilty about child labor in Africa throw away your phone and your computer, TV, smoke detectors, microwave ovens, your ice car, motorcycle, boat. Anything painted blue or printed in blue in your house is from cobalt.

The amount of cobalt used in EV's is minuscule to the amount used in all the electronic goods and industry out there.

[DB]

So @banddag do you drive an EV?

And if not why?

[banddag]

Then there's the cobalt.  An EV typically needs 6 to 12 kg of the stuff - source:  https://www.carwow.co.uk/blog/what-is-cobalt-used-for-in-elecrtic-cars#gref

Ev companies are getting away with using cobalt. 1/2 the Teslas made no longer use cobalt.

How much cobalt is in a Tesla car?
roughly 3% Cobalt
The cheaper Model Y cars (2 wheel drive) use LFP batteries that contain no Cobalt. Half the cars that Tesla make use the LFP chemistry. The remaining batteries Tesla use contain roughly 3% Cobalt by weight. The Cobalt in batteries is infinitely recyclable.Dec 18, 2023

[banddag]

So @banddag do you drive an EV?

And if not why?

I am seriously looking at the 2025/2026 Toyota EV's.  600 mile range and  10 minute charging according to Toyota.

[DB]

I am seriously looking at the 2025/2026 Toyota EV's.  600 mile range and  10 minute charging according to Toyota.

So, the short answer is you don't drive one...

[banddag]

So, the short answer is you don't drive one...

I drove a Tesla and it gives a tremendous ride/torque/response, quietness. Once you drive one you will understand why they will take over ICE cars
SO yes I am looking at the new Toyota EV's when they come out later this year or early next.

[DB]

I drove a Tesla and it gives a tremendous ride/torque/response, quietness. Once you drive one you will understand why they will take over ICE cars
SO yes I am looking at the new Toyota EV's when they come out later this year or early next.

Again, you don't own one or drive one. That's the bottom line.

I have two business partners that own Tesla's. I know others that own Tesla's. They are a fun car to drive. Never said they weren't. The simple truth is, all of them also own other non EV vehicles to use when the EV isn't practical for use. If you are wealthy and have a place for multiple vehicles, they're great. Otherwise, there are issues that are time consuming/difficult to overcome.

And if you buy the Toyota, you won't be charging it in 10 minutes at your home anytime soon.

[catfish1957]

I drove a Tesla and it gives a tremendous ride/torque/response, quietness. Once you drive one you will understand why they will take over ICE cars
SO yes I am looking at the new Toyota EV's when they come out later this year or early next.

Tell us truthfully.......  You beleive the climate change scam?

[libertybele]

No. This conservative doesn't "hate EVs," and I doubt anyone at TBR hates inanimate objects like electric vehicles. We also tend to think for ourselves. No one has told me what to think about electric vehicles.

This conservative knows that an EV is not practical for where I live or my needs. This conservative doesn't want the government to take away my gasoline-powered vehicle and force me either to stay home, walk 7 miles to the closest grocery store, or buy an extremely expensive and inefficient vehicle that is inappropriate for my climate and terrain.

 

[Wingnut]

Tell us truthfully.......  You beleive the climate change scam?

Tire companies love EVs.  They burn thru tires like hunter Biden with hookers and blow.

[Kamaji]

I was tired and read your post wrong and I was on my phone wich makes the whole screen hard to see. 

As I mentioned cobalt is used in every single electronic item in your house-the fruits of child slave labor. If you feel so guilty about child labor in Africa throw away your phone and your computer, TV, smoke detectors, microwave ovens, your ice car, motorcycle, boat. Anything painted blue or printed in blue in your house is from cobalt.

The amount of cobalt used in EV's is minuscule to the amount used in all the electronic goods and industry out there.

I'm not a virtue-signalling liberal who thinks I'm saving the planet by driving an EV.  I'm an old-school classical liberal - what would be known as a conservative these days, like JFK - who takes everything in moderation, weighs up the plusses and minuses, and most definitely does not try to grand-stand on something that is not what it's been represented to be.

And the cobalt that is in the devices I use is sufficiently minimal that I am not party to child slavery.  For example, the cobalt used in my iPhone is predominantly from recycled sources.  The same cannot be said for your EV.

So, sorry sucker.  Go stuff your virtue-signaling head up your well-reamed a$$.

[Kamaji]

I drove a Tesla and it gives a tremendous ride/torque/response, quietness. Once you drive one you will understand why they will take over ICE cars
SO yes I am looking at the new Toyota EV's when they come out later this year or early next.

IF they're so great, why are they only economically successful with a $7,500 subsidy, and artificially inexpensive electricity?  If EVs were cost and performance competitive with ICEs, they would be winning the battle without the need for subsidies.  ICEs didn't require any subsidies to effectively make horse-and-buggy obsolete within years, despite the fact that prior to the introduction of the Ford Model T there were few paved roads and few gas stations.

[Kamaji]

I was tired and read your post wrong and I was on my phone wich makes the whole screen hard to see. 

As I mentioned cobalt is used in every single electronic item in your house-the fruits of child slave labor. If you feel so guilty about child labor in Africa throw away your phone and your computer, TV, smoke detectors, microwave ovens, your ice car, motorcycle, boat. Anything painted blue or printed in blue in your house is from cobalt.

The amount of cobalt used in EV's is minuscule to the amount used in all the electronic goods and industry out there.

Your bigger handicap is your liberalism, i.e., your left-wing fascist tendencies.

[libertybele]

Your bigger handicap is your liberalism, i.e., your left-wing fascist tendencies.

         (We need a boxing ring emoji)

[DCPatriot]

I drove a Tesla and it gives a tremendous ride/torque/response, quietness. Once you drive one you will understand why they will take over ICE cars
SO yes I am looking at the new Toyota EV's when they come out later this year or early next.

Agree with you on this.  Have owned both a BMW M5 & M3 so am quite familiar with off-the-chart torque/responsiveness.

Was alongside a Tesla at a red light in my Passat recently and as usual, was in a hurry.  The Tesla took it as some sort of challenge and my jaw dropped.  Still shaking my head...was like watching a Star Wars episode or something.

[Hoodat]

You are another person who hates ev's because conservatives have been told to hate ev's.

Uh, no.  You are wrong about that.  I don't hate EVs.  In fact, several of my posts on this very thread are supportive of using hydrogen as an electric source for EVs which you have conspicuously ignored.  I have no problem with EVs per se.  But I have a huge problem with government forcing everyone to use them especially in areas where they are impractical.  This whole 'one-size-fits-all' bullshit is what I hate.  I hated it when the Soviet Communists did it.  I hated it when the Mao Communists did it.  And I hate it when American liberals do it.

[Hoodat]

2. China and Africa just signed a pact to stop using child labor in the cobalt mines.

You do realize that "Africa" is a continent, not a country, right?  On second thought, maybe you don't.

[mountaineer]

I object to the federal government trying to force EVs on us at the same time it's limiting the generation of affordable electricity. We've all seen the photos of EV charging stations powered by diesel generators. The hypocrisy is stunning.

[Hoodat]

I drove a Tesla and it gives a tremendous ride/torque/response, quietness. Once you drive one you will understand why they will take over ICE cars

Then why the need for government subsidies and mandates?  If you really believe EVs will take over ICE cars, then there really is no place here that requires the strong arm of government  fascism to achieve that end.

[DefiantMassRINO]

They need to fire their marketing research company.

It's the Ford Escort buyers that might consider an EV.  Not the pickup truck guys.

[roamer_1]

But ok, tell the ceo of Stihl who said the people prefer electric and the industry is not going that way that he is wrong.

Not if they're cutting trees down, they don't.

I'm starting to see electric chain saws carried in UTVs and on 4wheelers because they are light. But you ain't gonna get through a proper tree felled across the road with that... which is why there are still 40/50 cc saws with a 2ft bar in the back of every pickup that goes up in the bush. And an actual sawyer would laugh in your face.

[Hoodat]

I am seriously looking at the 2025/2026 Toyota EV's.  600 mile range and  10 minute charging according to Toyota.

Toyota offers no such range for 2025'2026.  Perhaps you should go back and reread that 2023 article that happened to be the first one that popped up in your Google search.  Oh, and those cars will use lithium-ion batteries.  Maybe you should get your facts straight before posting.  Because your failure to do so makes you come across as a complete fool.

[Hoodat]

Not if they're cutting trees down, they don't.

I'm starting to see electric chain saws carried in UTVs and on 4wheelers because they are light. But you ain't gonna get through a proper tree felled across the road with that... which is why there are still 40/50 cc saws with a 2ft bar in the back of every pickup that goes up in the bush. And an actual sawyer would laugh in your face.

We're still not clear on whether that was said by the current Stihl CEO or the one they just let go.  @banddag hasn't clarified that one yet.

[roamer_1]

I am seriously looking at the 2025/2026 Toyota EV's.  600 mile range and  10 minute charging according to Toyota.

Not in mountain country. And certainly not below zero. My sis owns a hybrid Yoda, and it is quite literally running on the ICE engine all winter long.

[roamer_1]

I drove a Tesla and it gives a tremendous ride/torque/response, quietness. Once you drive one you will understand why they will take over ICE cars
SO yes I am looking at the new Toyota EV's when they come out later this year or early next.

Nah. You've never been in a quarter mile car or a drag rail, have you? And this coming from a guy who actually worked on an electric mini-drag rail, back in the day.

And I am perfectly happy to admit the superior torque that comes from an electric motor. That ain't the only consideration.

And I hope you have the money... because that EV will be worth nothing in a few years when the battery goes out of it.

[roamer_1]

The amount of cobalt used in EV's is minuscule to the amount used in all the electronic goods and industry out there.

Still, the amount of cobalt available is not enough to turn merely England all-electric.  *Just England*

[DCPatriot]

Nah. You've never been in a quarter mile car or a drag rail, have you? And this coming from a guy who actually worked on an electric mini-drag rail, back in the day.

And I am perfectly happy to admit the superior torque that comes from an electric motor. That ain't the only consideration.

And I hope you have the money... because that EV will be worth nothing in a few years when the battery goes out of it.

LOL!  You mean like a big-screen projection TV?  Or a Commodore 64 computer?  Or an IBM 087 sorter?  Or a rotary wall telephone with a hand-crank?

How about a steam locomotive?  I'm sure Conestoga Wagon factory workers used the same argument back in the day.

[roamer_1]

LOL!  You mean like a big-screen projection TV?  Or a Commodore 64 computer?  Or an IBM 087 sorter?  Or a rotary wall telephone with a hand-crank?

No, I mean Racing. Even hopping lights and Outlaw 1/4 mile. The REAL THING, even on the street.

[DCPatriot]

No, I mean Racing. Even hopping lights and Outlaw 1/4 mile. The REAL THING, even on the street.

Didn't we just read that Musk has a concept vehicle that can go 0-60 in 1 second?   

I'm not an advocate of today's EVs...unless you live in a tropical climate and use it expressly as an errand vehicle around town.   

[Hoodat]

I seriously want a blue state to mandate 100% EV.  The world hasn't had that much of a visual contrast between right and wrong since the fall of the Berlin Wall.

[DB]

Didn't we just read that Musk has a concept vehicle that can go 0-60 in 1 second?   

I'm not an advocate of today's EVs...unless you live in a tropical climate and use it expressly as an errand vehicle around town.   

That's about 2.735 Gs... So if you weigh 200 lbs, you'd be pressed back into the seat with a force of about 550 lbs...

[DCPatriot]

That's about 2.735 Gs... So if you weigh 200 lbs, you'd be pressed back into the seat with a force of about 550 lbs...

Yikes!

yeah...that's not gonna work unless you're using "Element 115".   

[roamer_1]

Didn't we just read that Musk has a concept vehicle that can go 0-60 in 1 second?   

I'm not an advocate of today's EVs...unless you live in a tropical climate and use it expressly as an errand vehicle around town.   

We read a lot of things.

Here's the bar: Outrun a police chopper and get away with it. That's what a hellcat can do, slammed to the wood.

I don't give a single sh*t about anything but merit. Them that can brag, let em.

When it's real -REALLY real - People will flock to it without subsidy, just like the construction industry and mechanical industry moved to batt tools. No bullshit. No hype. They're better day-to-day.

But even in that, .when the chips are all down and the batt driven tool won't do, Out comes old-school pneumatics or corded tools to kick their ass.

[DB]

Toyota offers no such range for 2025'2026.  Perhaps you should go back and reread that 2023 article that happened to be the first one that popped up in your Google search.  Oh, and those cars will use lithium-ion batteries.  Maybe you should get your facts straight before posting.  Because your failure to do so makes you come across as a complete fool.

And the solid state battery isn't available. They say they'll have one by 2027...

And then there's this: https://carbuzz.com/catl-largest-battery-maker-calls-solid-state-batteries-unsafe/?utm_source=syndication

[DB]

We read a lot of things.

Here's the bar: Outrun a police chopper and get away with it. That's what a hellcat can do, slammed to the wood.

I don't give a single sh*t about anything but merit. Them that can brag, let em.

When it's real -REALLY real - People will flock to it without subsidy, just like the construction industry and mechanical industry moved to batt tools. No bullshit. No hype. They're better day-to-day.

But even in that, .when the chips are all down and the batt driven tool won't do, Out comes old-school pneumatics or corded tools to kick their ass.

The Tesla Roadster already does 0-60 in 1.9 seconds. The next generation one is supposed to be 1.1 seconds. It probably can't do it many times before requiring a recharge...

[roamer_1]

The Tesla Roadster already does 0-60 in 1.9 seconds. The next generation one is supposed to be 1.1 seconds. It probably can't do it many times before requiring a recharge...

Yeah... So it's good at hopping lights and impressing the girls. 

Take it out to the North Fork Nationals for a run... Dead of night... sixty miles away from plugging into anything... With what might be a need to duck off into the woods for hours and hours of back road Dukes of Hazzard shit if the cops show up...

Take it out there... 

[libertybele]

For what it's worth I have a friend who's son and sister have Teslas.  They have had them for a little less than a year and both of them have had problems.  They are expensive and impress others who are impressed by cars.

I wouldn't drive one if it was given to me. Cost of insurance, batteries,  and lack of reliability -- just not interested, not to mention rainy season and dodging tropical storms and hurricanes.

[banddag]

Toyota offers no such range for 2025'2026.  Perhaps you should go back and reread that 2023 article that happened to be the first one that popped up in your Google search.  Oh, and those cars will use lithium-ion batteries.  Maybe you should get your facts straight before posting.  Because your failure to do so makes you come across as a complete fool.

Oh sue me for Toyota changing their timeline from 2 or 3 years ago. Here is the  latest from Toyota . 2026  6 new ev's, lithium 500 mile range, 20 or 30 minute fast charging depending on the model
2027/28 Solid State 750 mile range, 10 minute charging.

The fact is ev's are getting better every year, longer range, prices coming down and most companies other than Tesla are going to solid state eventually.

https://www.autoweek.com/news/a45189317/toyota-solid-state-battery-timeline/

[banddag]

You do realize that "Africa" is a continent, not a country, right?  On second thought, maybe you don't.

Again, tired, it was late and I have getting it from multiple posters and on my phone.

The Republic of Congo knows they have a problem. In 2022 they started the first reforms to stop the practice of child mining but it is difficult to enforce. International co's such as Samsung are also under fire for buying the cobalt and they are putting pressure on the Congo to stop the practice.  China said they are putting pressure on Congo because the world is going after them.

The point is you use items every day made from cobalt from Congo but only bash the ev's.

[banddag]

because that EV will be worth nothing in a few years when the battery goes out of it.

Numerous companies such as Green Bean battery company are popping  up to rehab old batteries and resell them for a 1/4 of the cost of new.  The free market is taking care of the battery problems.
I believe this is how Interstate battery company was started-rehabbing used batteries but it's been a while.

[Wingnut]

The Tesla Roadster already does 0-60 in 1.9 seconds. The next generation one is supposed to be 1.1 seconds. It probably can't do it many times before requiring a recharge...

I'm in a hurry but I don't why.
My EV goes from zero to 60 in 2.0
I hear a voice
That say's I'm running behind
Saving the planet is a race
I better pick up my pace
And there ain't no room
For someone in second place.

[banddag]

  For example, the cobalt used in my iPhone is predominantly from recycled sources.  The same cannot be said for your EV.

Only half of Teslas now use cobalt. The EV industry is getting away from Lithium and cobalt and or only using minimum amounts through innovation.

[Wingnut]

Only half of Teslas now use cobalt. The EV industry is getting away from Lithium and cobalt and or only using minimum amounts through innovation.

Yo ticturd.  You know what is innovative?   Let the market sort it out.  Take your EV shill ass out of here.  No one is buying what you are selling. 

[roamer_1]

Numerous companies such as Green Bean battery company are popping  up to rehab old batteries and resell them for a 1/4 of the cost of new.  The free market is taking care of the battery problems.
I believe this is how Interstate battery company was started-rehabbing used batteries but it's been a while.

I am well aware. I have rebuilt two personally. Still even at that it was fifteen hundred bucks in parts and the expertise to try.

But then I DO buy/sell. It's my thing to buy busted sh*t and fix it to sell it for a profit.
And I can tell you right now that a EV that needs a battery will be worth nothing. Worse than a minivan that needs a transmission.

[banddag]

ICEs didn't require any subsidies to effectively make horse-and-buggy obsolete within years, despite the fact that prior to the introduction of the Ford Model T there were few paved roads and few gas stations.

We live in a global economy and US companies will move in a heartbeat to another country with cheaper labor.   China and S. Korea and now Vietnam heavily subsidizes their EV industry. Way more than what we do. If we do not subsidize our home grown EV industry these countries  will become the leaders and we will have to buy the technology and products from them.

Same argument from  the isolationist today. "Our Founding  fathers said to keep out of foreign entanglements"  Well George and crew did not have to deal with intercontinental ballistic missiles, cyber attacks from  3500 miles  away from rogue nations.

[roamer_1]

We live in a global economy [...]
Same argument from  the isolationist today. "Our Founding  fathers said to keep out of foreign entanglements"  Well George and crew did not have to deal with intercontinental ballistic missiles, cyber attacks from  3500 miles  away from rogue nations.

That is somehow a call to submit to globalism? Not by a long, long shot.
Foreign entanglements indeed. Ol George was a prophet.

[Bigun]

Hail cripples massive solar farm