Author Topic: Enough Nonsense; What is an "Assault Rifle"?  (Read 2194 times)

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Online Elderberry

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Enough Nonsense; What is an "Assault Rifle"?
« on: March 18, 2024, 12:39:23 pm »
Enough Nonsense; What is an "Assault Rifle"?

 Forgotten Weapons 3/16/2024

The technical definition of an "assault rifle" is pretty simple and straightforward. It's a shoulder-fired rifle with three elements:

* Capable of fully automatic fire

* Uses detachable magazines

* Chambered for an intermediate cartridge

That's it, and a rifle that meets those criteria can be accurately described as an assault rifle. Unfortunately, this terminology was confused by legislation in the 80s and 90s (and continued incorrect use today) trying to equate scary-looking semiautomatic firearms with military arms under the blanket heading of "assault weapons".


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYWkuV5FbJM&t=2s

Online Bigun

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Re: Enough Nonsense; What is an "Assault Rifle"?
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2024, 02:12:57 pm »
I'd classify an AR type of weapon as an assault rifle.  I don't own one and have no use for one.  If they get taken away....good riddance.

YOU @Jack Russell are an idiot!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

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Re: Enough Nonsense; What is an "Assault Rifle"?
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2024, 02:16:43 pm »
Lololol....personal opinion I suppose.

 :yowsa: I'm sure it's not the only one!

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« Last Edit: March 18, 2024, 02:22:02 pm by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online LMAO

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Re: Enough Nonsense; What is an "Assault Rifle"?
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2024, 02:28:30 pm »
I'd classify an AR type of weapon as an assault rifle.  I don't own one and have no use for one.  If they get taken away....good riddance.

I don’t think you’re an idiot. But I think you don’t understand firearms that well

I don’t know how old you are, but there once was a senator from Ohio named Howard Metzenbaum. He was big into gun control. He introduced a Bill to ban so-called assault weapons. He put a list of weapons on that bill that he wanted to ban. Do you know how he came up with his list? He went in the catalog and any gun that looked scary he put on that list. Never mind none of those guns were  ever used in any kind of crime.


I personally have no need for an AR 15. But I have no problem with a law abiding citizen owning one.


When  I was a senior in high school I had a friend of mine who thought handgun should be banned. He said their only purpose was to kill people. I play devils advocate with him and said that we should also ban shotguns and rifles because they kill people too. He thought I was being nonsensical, but I told him that if they are allowed to ban handguns, what makes him believe that they would stop there and not go after shotguns and rifles?

I never heard of the word assault weapon being used politically until sometime during the late 80s early 90s. Before that, handguns were the bogeyman.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2024, 02:29:29 pm by LMAO »
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Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: Enough Nonsense; What is an "Assault Rifle"?
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2024, 02:33:28 pm »
Hoplophobes have a simpler definition:

It looks SCARY to me!
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Online LMAO

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Re: Enough Nonsense; What is an "Assault Rifle"?
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2024, 02:39:10 pm »
Hoplophobes have a simpler definition:

It looks SCARY to me!

If I showed the average person a 30.06 semi automatic rifle, and an A.R. 15 semi automatic, that individual would probably think the AR 15 is more dangerous

The deer rifle is actually more powerful. People in politics prey on the ignorance of the people
I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them.

Barry Goldwater

http://www.usdebtclock.org

My Avatar is my adult autistic son Tommy

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Re: Enough Nonsense; What is an "Assault Rifle"?
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2024, 02:42:20 pm »
“No people will tamely surrender their Liberties, nor can any be easily subdued, when knowledge is diffused and Virtue is preserved. On the Contrary, when People are universally ignorant, and debauched in their Manners, they will sink under their own weight without the Aid of foreign Invaders. “

Samuel Adams, letter to James Warren, November 4, 1775

“Nothing is more certain than that a general profligacy and corruption of manners make a people ripe for destruction. A good form of government may hold the rotten materials together for some time, but beyond a certain pitch, even the best constitution will be ineffectual, and slavery must ensue.”

John Witherspoon, The Dominion of Providence Over the Passions of Men, 1776
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

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Re: Enough Nonsense; What is an "Assault Rifle"?
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2024, 03:21:02 pm »
If I showed the average person a 30.06 semi automatic rifle, and an A.R. 15 semi automatic, that individual would probably think the AR 15 is more dangerous

The deer rifle is actually more powerful. People in politics prey on the ignorance of the people
What is really eye opening is that they want to ban scary black rifles but the Ruger Mini 14 which aside from not having a pistol grip is in capability, semi-auto equal to that scary Black rifle but no one on the left screams about banning them.....yet.

I have had an AR-15 lower(and it wasn't considered a firearm at the time so big brother don't know) since before the insane ban, I am finally going to build it and have a complete upper on order. Why after twenty five years? Because the situation in America is a great concern and having a weapon that uses widely available and plentiful ammo is very important. Also a AR is much cheaper than a Mini-14.

Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: Enough Nonsense; What is an "Assault Rifle"?
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2024, 05:49:22 pm »
If I showed the average person a 30.06 semi automatic rifle, and an A.R. 15 semi automatic, that individual would probably think the AR 15 is more dangerous

The deer rifle is actually more powerful. People in politics prey on the ignorance of the people

In the (.5)(M)(V2) equation, a .223 or 5.56 cartridge will probably have a faster muzzle velocity, than a 30-06, but the 30-06 will have a significantly greater mass. A LOT will depend on the powder load and the barrel length of the rifle.
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Online Fishrrman

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Re: Enough Nonsense; What is an "Assault Rifle"?
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2024, 10:38:17 pm »
Bigun wrote:
"YOU ... are an idiot!"

That's why I've had him on ignore since he first posted here...

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Enough Nonsense; What is an "Assault Rifle"?
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2024, 10:52:58 pm »
I'd classify an AR type of weapon as an assault rifle.  I don't own one and have no use for one.  If they get taken away....good riddance.
I believe your image is right there in the dictionary next to the Word Fudd, sir.

When the Clinton era "assault weapons ban" was at issue, numerous folks who owned Weatherby or Browning or other upscale firearms were looking hard down their noses at those who liked the then conventional looking rifles such as the Mini-14 or M1A, asserting "no one needs..." because they, personally, didn't see the need.
While there were a relatively few 'scary looking' stoner variant rifles and the odd Armalite 180 out there, those people forgot the one basic issue.

The Second Amendment didn't specify type, never mentioned magazine capacity (or blade length, for that matter, as edged weapons are arms, also--along with pointy sticks, arrows and the means to propel them, etc.), and never even mentioned how many projectiles could be propelled at the pull of a trigger. None of that mattered, it was whatever you have (even canon were privately owned, and the Tiffany's bought machine guns for their son's regiment).

As with vehicles, just because you have no use for one, should NEVER be a reason to tell the government it is OK to take mine.

This isn't about the individual weapon, it is about the RIGHT, something I do not nor will ever support being infringed, whether I desire to own a specific weapon or not.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2024, 10:54:19 pm by Smokin Joe »
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Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Re: Enough Nonsense; What is an "Assault Rifle"?
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2024, 10:57:22 pm »
I'd classify an AR type of weapon as an assault rifle.  I don't own one and have no use for one.  If they get taken away....good riddance.
I'll commit a bit of theft here. First they came for the AR-15's but I didn't own one so I didn't speak out, what will they come to take next that is rightfully owned by Americans that will be OK with you? What will you say when the government comes to take something of yours, like like your land because they think someone else deserves it more and all the people that don't own property say well I don't care because I don't have property. It's a slippery slope when you decide someone else's rights and property can be taken because it doesn't affect you personally **nononono*

Online roamer_1

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Re: Enough Nonsense; What is an "Assault Rifle"?
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2024, 11:00:45 pm »
I owned an AR a few years back, but never fired the thing and it just took up room in my gun safe.  I have no problem with people owning them.  I have a few friends that have added thermal sights and silencers for shooting hogs at night.  Just give me a shotgun, a rifle to hunt turkey with and a plinking gun and I'm happy....oh and a Colt SAA.

I just have no use for AR's.....

I have said much the same. Everything out here is reach-out-and-touch some-one (long distance), or up pretty close...

So big iron for distance, or shotgun or lever-gun (be it in the brush or in the saddle) for everything else.

But I have thought about an AR for coyotes. I'm used to 22LR Stingers in a semi-auto with open sights for that, and bumping that up a bit might be a pleasure. Never had night vision in my life, and that's one of the things that turns me on.

But I never ever would consider an AR as an assault weapon. It's just a light weight rifle with man-bling and bolt-ons.

And I agree without reservation on the Colts... I went 1911 a few years ago, and rue the day.

Offline goatprairie

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Re: Enough Nonsense; What is an "Assault Rifle"?
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2024, 02:23:38 am »
Far more people are murdered by knives than rifles by almost a seven to one ratio. Should we ban knives?

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Re: Enough Nonsense; What is an "Assault Rifle"?
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2024, 04:42:41 am »
@Bigun I want to thank you sooooooooooooooooo much for posting this.  You gave me the push that I needed to exit this echo chamber. 
Best to all of you!

Well that sucks @Jack Russell ...  :shrug: **nononono*

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Enough Nonsense; What is an "Assault Rifle"?
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2024, 05:58:57 am »
Ban alcohol and drugs they kill waaaay more.
Actually, I'm okay with that, but the Government was never granted power over what any person consumes, at least not in the Constitution.

It isn't your lack of desire to own the same things which appeal to me that I find distressing, far from it. Freedom is about living as you please, while embracing responsibility for it, and not interfering with other's rights.

It's that willingness expressed (correct me if I am wrong) to throw the parts and parcels of freedom that do not particularly interest you to the wind, precisely because you do not want them for yourself. The shooing sports embrace an incredible number of disciplines, and the tools to engage in those, from matchlock muskets state of the art long distance shooting platforms, and even some which were once legal to order through the mail which have since been declared "destructive devices" or restricted in other ways.

During the "Assault Weapon Ban" debates of the 90s there emerged a group of firearm owners who decided as long as their particular arm of interest was not in jeopardy, other groups of firearms could be sacrificed on the altar of compromise. Essentially, they practically interpreted the Second Amendment to be about hunting, and no arm they saw as not being particularly useful in that regard was useful to them. They'd gladly sacrifice the vacuously defined "assault weapons" so long as their guns of interest were not involved. Hence, the name "Fudd" (as in Elmer, huntin' wabbits), was applied, and at least for a time, it stuck, a mild pejorative for those who would give up whole classes of firearms to ridiculous legislation to retain their firearms of interest. The fallacy being, of course, that the gun grabbers would not stop there, and eventually would ban them all.

Nope, I will take issue with that stance, because it is all of us standing together that ultimately gives us the best chance of resisting the efforts of those who would disarm us all, whether it be piecemeal or in one fell swoop. I am not content with shaving off bits of a fundamental Civil Right, just to placate those who want all of that Right, and frankly, I am concerned for our mutual welfare that anyone would be.

In no sense do I see that an "Echo Chamber" matter because those principles and Rights the Bill of Rights is meant to protect should be something we all stand steadfast behind, fundamental to the existence of our Republic.

You are entitled to your opinion, of course, but on those matters discussion and disagreement would certainly arise were any of those rights be ceded in toto or in part.

It is a pity to see you go, but the freedom to leave is as much yours as the freedom to stay. Fare thee well if you decide to leave.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2024, 06:07:18 am by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Re: Enough Nonsense; What is an "Assault Rifle"?
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2024, 01:34:16 pm »
Actually, I'm okay with that, but the Government was never granted power over what any person consumes, at least not in the Constitution.

It isn't your lack of desire to own the same things which appeal to me that I find distressing, far from it. Freedom is about living as you please, while embracing responsibility for it, and not interfering with other's rights.

It's that willingness expressed (correct me if I am wrong) to throw the parts and parcels of freedom that do not particularly interest you to the wind, precisely because you do not want them for yourself. The shooing sports embrace an incredible number of disciplines, and the tools to engage in those, from matchlock muskets state of the art long distance shooting platforms, and even some which were once legal to order through the mail which have since been declared "destructive devices" or restricted in other ways.

During the "Assault Weapon Ban" debates of the 90s there emerged a group of firearm owners who decided as long as their particular arm of interest was not in jeopardy, other groups of firearms could be sacrificed on the altar of compromise. Essentially, they practically interpreted the Second Amendment to be about hunting, and no arm they saw as not being particularly useful in that regard was useful to them. They'd gladly sacrifice the vacuously defined "assault weapons" so long as their guns of interest were not involved. Hence, the name "Fudd" (as in Elmer, huntin' wabbits), was applied, and at least for a time, it stuck, a mild pejorative for those who would give up whole classes of firearms to ridiculous legislation to retain their firearms of interest. The fallacy being, of course, that the gun grabbers would not stop there, and eventually would ban them all.

Nope, I will take issue with that stance, because it is all of us standing together that ultimately gives us the best chance of resisting the efforts of those who would disarm us all, whether it be piecemeal or in one fell swoop. I am not content with shaving off bits of a fundamental Civil Right, just to placate those who want all of that Right, and frankly, I am concerned for our mutual welfare that anyone would be.

In no sense do I see that an "Echo Chamber" matter because those principles and Rights the Bill of Rights is meant to protect should be something we all stand steadfast behind, fundamental to the existence of our Republic.

You are entitled to your opinion, of course, but on those matters discussion and disagreement would certainly arise were any of those rights be ceded in toto or in part.

It is a pity to see you go, but the freedom to leave is as much yours as the freedom to stay. Fare thee well if you decide to leave.

Thank you!  @Smokin Joe That speaks for me as well.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online Bigun

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Re: Enough Nonsense; What is an "Assault Rifle"?
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2024, 01:36:12 pm »
@Bigun I want to thank you sooooooooooooooooo much for posting this.  You gave me the push that I needed to exit this echo chamber.  It's been an interesting 8 years here.  Sometimes you have to take the opposite side of an argument otherwise there is zero discussion.  :silly:  I think I counted 16 people online this afternoon.....you are one of the reasons this site is dying.....oops now it will be 15.

Best to all of you!

And to you as well @Jack Russell but I apologize for nothing.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online LMAO

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Re: Enough Nonsense; What is an "Assault Rifle"?
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2024, 05:01:02 pm »
@Jack Russell

Sometimes you have to accept that on a political forum there are always a few people whose only debate skills is to swear at you and name call


It’s unfortunate. But it is what it is.
I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them.

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Re: Enough Nonsense; What is an "Assault Rifle"?
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2024, 01:35:30 am »
@Idiot @JackRussell

I hate to see you go whoever you are but I really like Jack Russell...if you want that name back you have to contact me..I changed the permission to let members change their names.

I sorry you think this is an echo chamber.. :shrug:

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Offline Sighlass

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Re: Enough Nonsense; What is an "Assault Rifle"?
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2024, 03:24:40 am »
Quote from: JackRussell
I owned an AR a few years back, but never fired the thing and it just took up room in my gun safe.  I have no problem with people owning them.  I have a few friends that have added thermal sights and silencers for shooting hogs at night.  Just give me a shotgun, a rifle to hunt turkey with and a plinking gun and I'm happy....oh and a Colt SAA.

I just have no use for AR's.....

I'd classify an AR type of weapon as an assault rifle.  I don't own one and have no use for one.  If they get taken away....good riddance. 

I also own an AR-15 and think it is ugly for the most part, but I wouldn't trade it away because it serves a legit purpose, lighter weight, fairly durable weapon, and good capacity with a decent bullet that fits power/range/lighter weight in one package. It fits a good nitch even in some hunting. It makes a good/great home defense tool.

Is it (AR-15) my favorite gun, no... but so what, it serves a purpose and does nothing more than most other guns... One pull of trigger, one fire. My scary black 9mm carbine does the exact same thing without the range (and I love it). My 308 bolt action gun shoots a far superior round (IMHO), but looks less scary... but I had rather be shot with a .223/556 than a 308 probable any day of the week.

So part of me is also FUDD (in desirability/appeal of guns based on looks favoring wooden stocks)... but I recognize the dire need to keep all guns legal because the left will not stop until they have collected your stainless steel straws banning spitballing. So I am just a half FUDD (and lean heavily towards freedom, which probable disqualifies me from the actually meaning).

I will not give a parting shot of calling you anything... but I fully understand the fire of what you said evoking strong emotion. Love is a battlefield, but so is defending the 2nd Amendment. I wish you the best sir.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2024, 03:26:11 am by Sighlass »
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Enough Nonsense; What is an "Assault Rifle"?
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2024, 04:36:07 am »
We defend all of the Right, or we defend none of it in the end.

For instance, I have no desire to own full auto. But that does not mean that it should not be included in the RKBA under the penumbra of the 2nd Amendment.

After all, the 2nd has nothing to do with hunting (a right unregulated by anything but property rights until recent times), but everything to do with securing all our other rights against a government gone mad, that has declared war on its own citizens for nothing more than standing up for our Constitution and their Rights. Should those arms ever be needed to resist tyranny on our own shores, we would be best off with the best arms we can get.

My 'ugly guns', such as they are, are only taken out to maintain proficiency in handling them, cleaned, and put away. I hope to pass them on to my heirs, with a long service life ahead of them if need be. I hunt and shoot for pleasure (actually, I enjoy shooting all of them) mainly with firearms which, in profile, appear the same as a bolt action (for the most part), which in some instances belies their potential, but which might not invoke as prompt urinary incontinence in the average hoplophobe as rapidly as the firearms that are almost guaranteed to send them into a tizzy. That does not mean that some of them are not very capable, too.
 
Lest we forget, the infantry arm that won many of the battles of WWII, around the world, had such a profile (M-1 Garand). The M-14, M1A, and Mini-14 are all based on that same action.
Despite their less intimidating appearance, it is almost guaranteed that those will be on the list of things to take from us, as will all arms should we start giving ground and allowing any to be banned or further regulated.

"...shall not be infringed." leaves no leeway for compromise (the partial loss of the Right)--there has been too much of that already.

 
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Enough Nonsense; What is an "Assault Rifle"?
« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2024, 05:16:16 pm »
I have zero interest in owning a full-auto anything,or even a semi-auto AR-15. I just don't see an actual need for either,and IF that "need" ever develops,I will just pick up on of the ones laying on the ground and use it.

I THINK I still have a bolt-action 7mm and a M1-Garand,but am unsure. Gave away and/or sold pretty  much  everything including my reloading equipment a few years ago.

I KNOW for a fact I still have the Combat Commander I built,and will have it until the day  I die. I will neither give it away,or sell it for any amount of money. I rarely "go to town",but when I do,guess what I am carrying.

I also have a .380 and a 6 shot 22 LR revolver with a 1.5 inch  barrel.  99 percent of the time,it is this little 22 revolver I am carrying in my pocket. I can't remember how many poisonous snakes I have killed with  it,but I do remember killing two rabid rabbits (seriously) with it that I saw staggering down the road in front of my house one day.

IF push were to ever come to shove,a .22 Stinger in an eye socket should settle any argument.

I mostly  carry the Combat Commander on the rare occasions when I go to town  because there are a  LOT of fools in this world who are not afraid of getting shot by a 22,but a 45 ACP Combat Commander would scare the Biden out of them,and the real goal to survival is not necessarily to kill or wound any potential attacker,but to walk away safely,without being injured.

Hell,I have avoided being ratpacked a couple of times by just putting my hand inside my  coat pocket (when carrying my 3 inch 44 Special) and smiling at them. For some odd reason this seems to allow them to hear their mamas calling them,and they  run off for home.

ALMOST had negative consequences once after "presenting" my 44 Special to a couple of wound-be muggers,and damned if they didn't run to the po-po and report me for threatening them with a gun.

No kidding.

I got lucky because the cop they reported me to just ran a check on me to see if I had any warrants out,and let me go after telling me to be careful.

I AM more careful now. If you don't take the gun out,your attackers can't identify it for the cops. If they try,chances are they are going to call it a chrome gun,and I don't own any chrome guns.

« Last Edit: March 20, 2024, 05:20:13 pm by sneakypete »
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Enough Nonsense; What is an "Assault Rifle"?
« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2024, 05:22:55 pm »
Actually, I'm okay with that, 

@Smokin Joe

I'm not,and I don't  use either.

YOU are responsible for your actions,not the alcohol or drugs,so there ARE NO EXCUSES.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!