Alec Baldwin charged with involuntary manslaughter for a second time over fatal ‘Rust’ shooting

[sneakypete]

Yet if I put a cigarette in my mouth and I get cancer (even after all of the warnings), it's the tobacco company's fault.

@Jack Russell

Not anymore. I suspect the natives in places like VERY remote tropical islands have now heard about the dangers of tobacco use.

BTW,are tobacco companies even allowed to advertise anymore? I can't remember the last time I saw an add by a cigarette company on tv or anywhere else.

BTW,part of that might be because if I did spot one,I would have ignored it.

[GtHawk]

The complications necessarily cannot apply or you suffer the precedent that irresponsibility is not the fault of the user. It is necessary that responsibility is preserved.

In the end, the guy that pulls the trigger bears the weight.
If anything, the armorer is merely complicit. It is the shooter that MUST know.

I think I either misstated or wasn't clear, I am in no way trying to give the dumbass an out, I'm saying that he can't claim ignorance because I am sure that on the big budget movies he was on, the armorers enforced the industry standard of actors having to verify any weapon handed to them being unloaded and safe. And this arrogant ass was on a bunch of movies where he handled guns.

This Wikipedia article(I know Wikipedia  ) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rust_shooting_incident has some interesting information including the events of the day of the shooting, the 'armorer's' background and the assistant director Halls who is the one that 'checked' the gun and declared it cold before handing it to Baldwin who did not verify the weapon himself.

[GtHawk]

Yet if I put a cigarette in my mouth and I get cancer (even after all of the warnings), it's the tobacco company's fault.

Yup we live in a world where there is no personal responsibility for actions, especially if some shyster thinks he can make a buck off of it.

[Elderberry]

Never Actors? What about, Never Repubs? Never Conservatives? Never Civilians?

Who decides who can have weapons?

[DB]

They should never allow an actor to ever hold a gun capable of shooting a live round, then there would never be a problem. Who as kids aimed a cap gun at friends and pulled the trigger?  Yup I did.  We even shot bb guns at one another, but thankfully no one was ever seriously injured.

They were using the same gun with live ammo target practicing. Incredibly stupid. It was Balwin's set and he hired everyone there.

[mountaineer]

They were using the same gun with live ammo target practicing. Incredibly stupid. It was Balwin's set and he hired everyone there.

Yeah, I doubt there was anyone on set who didn't know it was a "real" revolver and not just a toy. When I think how careful folks like us are on the shooting range, double and triple-checking whether a pistol gun is loaded, chambered, etc., and how much on-set experience Baldwin has had with weapons (probably used one in at least half of the films he's made), it's not hard to say he should have known not to pull the trigger without first knowing whether it was loaded (and he did pull the trigger, it didn't just go off on its own).

[GtHawk]

They should never allow an actor to ever hold a gun capable of shooting a live round, then there would never be a problem. Who as kids aimed a cap gun at friends and pulled the trigger?  Yup I did.  We even shot bb guns at one another, but thankfully no one was ever seriously injured.

On the set of Rust everything was done on the cheap so they hired a person as armorer that had only one production as primary armorer under her belt, there were numerous complaints by union crew that the set was unsafe and on the day of the shooting the gun was used, by crewmembers that had been dismissed, for target practice practice shooting beer cans while waiting for transportation. Bottom line the entire production was a cockup from start to finish with industry standards and rules for safety ignored by the armorer, producers, directors and Baldwin who was no novice when it came to handling weapons on a movie set.

[GtHawk]

The actors needed "play" guns and if they wanted to target shoot, fine, just use a gun capable of live rounds, just never mix the two.  Even though I can't stand Alec Baldwin, he had no intention of shooting a live round, accidents happen.  I've had a gun go off before while quail hunting when I was in college, yes it was an accident and yes the gun was pointed to the sky.  It scared the crap out of me. Heck I had a brand new Browning auto misfire then delay fire.  Thankfully a local gunsmith fixed it.

Intentions don't mean shit when you incompetently handle a firearm and intentions is probably one of the main reasons he wasn't charged with more than involuntary homicide. Baldwin was negligent he didn't follow industry standards, he didn't follow basic firearm safety...and he pulled the damn trigger which is why someone died, and that's the bottom line. Also only God and Alec Baldwin knew what he intended that day, not you nor I.

[Cyber Liberty]

I think I either misstated or wasn't clear, I am in no way trying to give the dumbass an out, I'm saying that he can't claim ignorance because I am sure that on the big budget movies he was on, the armorers enforced the industry standard of actors having to verify any weapon handed to them being unloaded and safe. And this arrogant ass was on a bunch of movies where he handled guns.

This Wikipedia article(I know Wikipedia  ) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rust_shooting_incident has some interesting information including the events of the day of the shooting, the 'armorer's' background and the assistant director Halls who is the one that 'checked' the gun and declared it cold before handing it to Baldwin who did not verify the weapon himself.

I read the article...so Hannah Reed was not the Armorer the day of the shooting, and was removed from the job 4 days prior?  She may have had no responsibility at all.

[DB]

I read the article...so Hannah Reed was not the Armorer the day of the shooting, and was removed from the job 4 days prior?  She may have had no responsibility at all.

I hadn't heard that before. If true, she should be completely off the hook.

[Cyber Liberty]

I hadn't heard that before. If true, she should be completely off the hook.

Well, it's Wiki, but it does say that in the link in the post I was quoting.  I had not heard it before, either.

[GtHawk]

I read the article...so Hannah Reed was not the Armorer the day of the shooting, and was removed from the job 4 days prior?  She may have had no responsibility at all.

I think you read correctly on the day of the sooting she was just a props assistant but she did check the gun earlier that day. under the header Preparations For Rehearsal third paragraph:
According to a search warrant, the guns were briefly checked by armorer Gutierrez-Reed, before assistant director Halls took the Pietta revolver from the prop cart and handed it to Baldwin.[38][39] In a subsequent affidavit, Halls said the safety protocol regarding this firearm was such that Halls would open the loading gate of the revolver and rotate the cylinder to expose the chambers so he could inspect them himself. According to the affidavit, Halls said he did not check all cylinder chambers, but he recalled seeing three rounds in the cylinder at the time. (After the shooting, Halls said in the affidavit, Gutierrez-Reed retrieved the weapon and opened it, and Halls said that he saw four rounds which were plainly blanks, and one which could have been the remaining shell of a discharged live round.)[40] In the warrant, it is further stated that Halls announced the term "cold gun", meaning that it was empty.[38] Halls's lawyer, Lisa Torraco, later sought to assert that he did not take the gun off the cart and hand it to Baldwin as reported, but when pressed by a reporter to be clear, she refused to repeat that assertion.[41]

Now what I want to Know is, if Guitierrez -Reed wasn't the last one to check the gun, assistant director Hall was the last one and declared it cold and handed it to Baldwin, why are they charging Gutierrez-Reed instead of Hall or whoever was the acting armorer after they demoted Gutierrez-Reed(I'll just call her Reed) While Reed along with others in control exhibited a total lack of safety concern and proper procedures on set prior to the incident, she was demoted to props assistant days before the incident and wasn't the last one to check the gun or hand it to Baldwin, it seems strange to charge her with involuntary manslaughter. There were reports earlier after the shooting that said the prop gun was loaded and left on a table, everyone went to lunch and no one checked the gun again until rehearsal. Also why did Reed load the gun without supervision if she was demoted to prop assistant, was there no armorer on set to insure safety? Anyway here's a recent article on Reed https://variety.com/2024/film/news/rust-armorer-leniency-if-explained-source-bullet-1235874734/

 w

[Hoodat]

Now what I want to Know is, if Guitierrez -Reed wasn't the last one to check the gun, assistant director Hall was the last one and declared it cold and handed it to Baldwin, why are they charging Gutierrez-Reed instead of Hall or whoever was the acting armorer after they demoted Gutierrez-Reed

Because G-Reed is the designated fall person since she can't afford to get a good attorney like everyone else involved.

[sneakypete]

Never Actors? What about, Never Repubs? Never Conservatives? Never Civilians?

Who decides who can have weapons?

@Elderberry

I am reasonably certain the comment was handing weapons to actors on a movie set,where it is GUARANTEED that at some point will be pointed at other actors and have the  trigger pulled,and the end result be an actor or actors killed by accident due to neglect.

There really  is no reason for this to happen and it wouldn't happen if they only used "movie guns" that had been modified to never even chamber live ammo,never mind fire it.

And it's not even a complicated operation or expensive operation. The typical  movie set probably spends more on lunch for the cast and crew than it would cost.

[Cyber Liberty]

I dunno why she stuck around after being demoted like that, other than the fact she was rather poor.  She was living in my small town here in Mohave County, in a bad part of town.  Her father, a famous Armorer, also lives (or lived, don't know that either) in Mohave.

Her being poor may have had something to do with why she's charged.

[sneakypete]

Intentions don't mean shit when you incompetently handle a firearm and intentions is probably one of the main reasons he wasn't charged with more than involuntary homicide. Baldwin was negligent he didn't follow industry standards, he didn't follow basic firearm safety...and he pulled the damn trigger which is why someone died, and that's the bottom line. Also only God and Alec Baldwin knew what he intended that day, not you nor I.

@GtHawk

I would THINK it would be a reasonable assumption to assume that Baldwin HAD fired live rounds at targets,and MAYBE even game at one time or another,so he would have some idea of what bullets did to flesh and blood animals and humans.

Even in a movie and shooting a "prop gun",why the HELL would you even actually take aim at another human unless you intended to shoot them?

Why now aim off to the side or above their heads,even when you think you are firing a blank gun? The audience will never know,so what's the big deal?

[sneakypete]

@GtHawk 

I am sure you are aware of the most basic of firearms statements/laws that state "You NEVER point a firearm as anything you  don't intend to shoot."

There was absolutely nothing preventing Baldwin from aiming off to the side,instead of directly at the person he shot.

He can't even claim stress because they were fooling around between takes.

[sneakypete]

Because G-Reed is the designated fall person since she can't afford to get a good attorney like everyone else involved.

@Hoodat

Sadly,that probable sums it up. Prosecutors only want to put people on trial they know they can convict.

[GtHawk]

@GtHawk

I would THINK it would be a reasonable assumption to assume that Baldwin HAD fired live rounds at targets,and MAYBE even game at one time or another,so he would have some idea of what bullets did to flesh and blood animals and humans.

Even in a movie and shooting a "prop gun",why the HELL would you even actually take aim at another human unless you intended to shoot them?

Why now aim off to the side or above their heads,even when you think you are firing a blank gun? The audience will never know,so what's the big deal?

I'll just repost a quote from Baldwin, and keep in mind this idiot has been on many movies where he handled guns, including westerns, and I will bet dollars to donuts that none of those movies were as poorly and cheaply run as RUST so they would have had armorers following industry standards. Here's the quote:

When asked about his gun slinging and horse riding skills, he said: "They're always at the ready. I'm an actor of the old school. So if you read my resume – my motorcycle riding, my French, juggling, my horseback riding, my gunplay – is all right at my fingertips at all times."[13] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rust_(upcoming_film)

[DB]

I'll just repost a quote from Baldwin, and keep in mind this idiot has been on many movies where he handled guns, including westerns, and I will bet dollars to donuts that none of those movies were as poorly and cheaply run as RUST so they would have had armorers following industry standards. Here's the quote:

When asked about his gun slinging and horse riding skills, he said: "They're always at the ready. I'm an actor of the old school. So if you read my resume – my motorcycle riding, my French, juggling, my horseback riding, my gunplay – is all right at my fingertips at all times."[13] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rust_(upcoming_film)

Hey, a donut probably costs more than a dollar these days...

[Cyber Liberty]

Hey, a donut probably costs more than a dollar these days...

But he was correct that Rust is/was considered a low-budget movie.  Corners were cut, low level folks like prop handler were poorly paid.