Judge rules Trump committed fraud in building real estate empire

[Kamaji]

Interesting

So what are the chances of Trump getting this ruling overturned?

IMPO, based on a quick read-through of the opinion itself, without being familiar with all of the evidence submitted to the court?  Unlikely.

[LMAO]

IMPO, based on a quick read-through of the opinion itself, without being familiar with all of the evidence submitted to the court?  Unlikely.

What should Trump do? What would you do if you were his attorney?

[Kamaji]

What should Trump do? What would you do if you were his attorney?

How does one unscramble an omelet?  Trump should have resisted the temptation to play "truthful hyperbole" as his primary negotiating tactic all these years.

At this point, dig through the opinion, see if one can build an argument that there are, in fact, issues of fact that should be resolved at trial, and argue for summary judgment to be reversed on that ground, and then seek a negotiated settlement.

[corbe]

   After 6 Bankruptcies all US Banks pulled out of lending him a dam red dime.  Deutsche Bank (German) holds all his loans if I'm not mistaken.

[Kamaji]

   After 6 Bankruptcies all US Banks pulled out of lending him a dam red dime.  Deutsche Bank (German) holds all his loans if I'm not mistaken.

Those weren't personal bankruptcies.

[corbe]

Those weren't personal bankruptcies.

   I was aware of that @Kamaji BUT he probably got loans of those 6 failed businesses; Water, Steaks, Airline, Casino and University?  My impression is that he was always a mediocre Businessman at best.   

[mountaineer]

Hey, guess what! It's all DeSantis's fault!  He actually assesses property values and controls the NY judiciary!! 

Futurist
@americasgreat
RON DESANTIS ALLOWS NEW YORK TO DETERMINE PROPERTY VALUES IN FLORIDA

@RonDeSantis is allowing  NEW YORK Judge Arthur Engoron rule that Mar-a-Lago, in Palm Beach Florida, is only worth approximate ’18 Million dollars’ without a response. Palm Beach residents should be insulted that the governor is allowing ALL their property values to be dropped by Gov DeSantis, because if Mar a Lago with 20 acres on the water, and 126 rooms, is only worth $18 mil, then a 1 acre property on the water, appraised between $35 mil - $175 mil, is now ONLY worth $2 to $30 million. That is a major drop in appraised value for Palm Beachers.

@RonDeSantis knows Mar-a-Lago is worth more than $18 mil, based on actual comps and sales of residences and/or commercial properties on the water. When a governor allows another state justice system to determine the value of property in his home state WITHOUT A FIGHT, because he is either to scared to respond, ignorant, or will take a guilty verdict against Trump a presidential opponent to help his failing campaign, he is not a leader.  My appraised value of @RonDeSantis is -ZERO for allowing NEW YORK to tell FLORIDA how much our properties are worth.
7:02 AM · Sep 27, 2023

Mind-numbingly stupid.

[sneakypete]

The man stuck his hand in the hornet's nest. What will they do if he is elected next year? We will see a hornet swarm unlike anything we have ever seen in this country.

@massadvj

Good!

Let them come  out of hiding and expose themselves for the crooks  and liars they are in public,instead of hiding behind their benches.

BTW,anybody else take a look at what this freak looks like? He obviously didn't have to cut into his dating time to study law.

[sneakypete]

🇺🇸 Mike Davis 🇺🇸
@mrddmia
What a joke.

The Democrat New York Attorney General had a Democrat judge simply rule Trump committed fraud.

No trial.

No jury.

For the non-fraud of Trump paying back sophisticated Wall Street banks.

In full.

With interest.

Democrat law-fare.

Appellate courts must reverse.
5:14 PM · Sep 26, 2023

@mountaineer

They probably will.

After the election.

[sneakypete]

https://twitter.com/EricTrump/status/1706795629505114508

@mystery-ak

BTW,does Fla have property taxes?

[mountaineer]

Kurt Schlichter
@KurtSchlichter
Donald Trump is the victim of a fascist judicial system that is destroying the rule of law. This NY BS is just one more instance.
You can see that and still support another guy in the primary. The fact this outrage is happening is why electability is so important.
8:40 AM · Sep 27, 2023

[Kamaji]

Hey, guess what! It's all DeSantis's fault!  He actually assesses property values and controls the NY judiciary!!  :silly:Mind-numbingly stupid.

Agreed

[cato potatoe]

All of that equity, and he still makes your grandma pay his legal bills.
Still I have to wonder if the parcel is worth nearly as much as speculated.  The 1920s mansion must remain a club and cannot be razed/redeveloped, and that would drastically inhibit the sale price.

[roamer_1]

I would recommend reading through the opinion.  It's not particularly difficult - although the repeated misconduct by Trump's own lawyers does get tiresome - and it should be instructive, because the claim on which summary judgment was granted is not a mere common-law fraud claim, and as the NY courts have construed the relevant statute - Executive Law §63(12), there is no requirement for scienter (intent to defraud) or materiality, or reliance.

As the court noted (specifically on the issue of materiality):  "It is settled that a standalone cause of action under Executive Law §63(12) does not require a demonstration of materiality but merely that an 'act has the capacity or tendency to deceive, or creates an atmosphere conducive to fraud.'  People v. Gen. Elec. Co. ...."

What Donald Trump refers to when he uses the term "truthful hyperbole" is precisely that sort of an act.  Resort to "truthful hyperbole" often enough, and one will eventually run afoul of Executive Law §63(12) - which requires repeated or persistent conduct - and if the stakes are high enough, one will suffer the consequences.

Donald Trump is suffering the consequences of his own inclination to resort to "truthful hyperbole" in most of his business dealings with investors and creditors.

Too bad, so sad, but Trump is solely responsible for having woven the rope that the NY AG is now using to hang him with.

This is not lawfare, or weaponization of the law to go after one's political opponents; this is Donald Trump getting his own comeuppance for his own flagrant actions.  And it is not like this law was not there - it's been on the books for decades and decades - and it's not like it hasn't been used in the past - this opinion is rife with published cases where it has been used against other large operations, such as Dominos Pizza, General Electric, Ford Motor Co., and the like.

As I said before, Trump is his own worst enemy.

Strange to me... Creating the conditions for fraud to be committed is a different thing than the actual committing of fraud. An odd distinction, where 'no fault, no foul' would apply, one would think.

[mystery-ak]

 Here’s how Donald Trump’s NY fraud ruling impacts his businesses
By Priscilla DeGregory,
Ben Kochman and
Kyle Schnitzer   
Published Sep. 27, 2023, 4:39 p.m. ET

The bombshell court ruling finding Donald Trump liable for fraud left even his own lawyers scratching their heads — asking the judge on Wednesday to clarify his decision canceling the former president’s New York business licenses.

Manhattan Supreme Court Justice Arthur Engoron’s 34-page ruling from Tuesday would force Trump, 77, to hand over control of his Empire State properties — including Trump Tower in Midtown — to an independent third party, otherwise known as a receiver.

During the Wednesday hearing, Trump lawyer Christopher Kise asked Engoron: “Certain of the entities, physical entities like Trump Tower or 40 Wall St — is the court under the assumption that those assets would be sold or just to be managed under the moderator?”

“I’m not prepared to make a ruling,” Engoron replied.

In his ruling, the judge wrote the receiver must be appointed “to manage the dissolution of the cancelled” business certificates for Limited Liability Corporations, or LLCs, under the Trump Organization umbrella.

A Manhattan judge found former President Donald Trump liable for fraud by exaggerating the value of his assets.Photo by Sean Rayford/Getty Images

The decision was issued in New York Attorney General Letitia James’ sprawling civil fraud case against Trump, his namesake real estate company and executives including his children Donald Trump Jr. and Eric Trump — alleging that for years the ex-president exaggerated his assets to get an edge on loan and insurance terms.

Here’s how the ruling impacts Trump’s businesses, according to legal experts:

more
https://nypost.com/2023/09/27/how-donald-trumps-ny-fraud-ruling-impacts-his-businesses/

[libertybele]

Well...they are continuing to drain his pockets; pockets that aren't as deep as we were told. 

 

[roamer_1]

Well...they are continuing to drain his pockets; pockets that aren't as deep as we were told. 

 

Well, they very seldom are... So I find it hard to hold that against him unless it's egregious... and even then, I would think someone would have to prove harm.

[berdie]

That's the question I have. Has some party filed this claim or claimed injury?

As it is, it sounds like NY is on a crusade.

[DB]

Strange to me... Creating the conditions for fraud to be committed is a different thing than the actual committing of fraud. An odd distinction, where 'no fault, no foul' would apply, one would think.

With loans, more assets as collateral, gets you lower rates because the risk is lower. So even if you pay back the loan you still benefitted from the fake asset values (if they are fake). They are ill gotten gains. So there is material gain from doing this. But, normally it is the lenders responsibility to determine what assets are worth. On the other hand, if you hide debt/liabilities from the lender that is a crime.

[catfish1957]

Well...they are continuing to drain his pockets; pockets that aren't as deep as we were told. 

As much as I depsise the left wing, you got to admit it is a bad ass strategy.  Milk him dry, till he squeals

It's why our side loses so often.  We bring knives to gun fights.

[Kamaji]

Strange to me... Creating the conditions for fraud to be committed is a different thing than the actual committing of fraud. An odd distinction, where 'no fault, no foul' would apply, one would think.

That's because the policy behind Executive Law §63(12) is to police people who are persistently engaged in conduct that could give rise to fraud.  It's not an odd distinction, it's similar to setting a speed limit on the highway and ticketing or arresting people who violate that speed limit, whether or not they actually caused any harm through their speeding.

It's also similar to laws that make it illegal to engage in false advertising - those statutes typically apply regardless of whether or not anyone was actually harmed by an instance of false advertising.

[Kamaji]

That's the question I have. Has some party filed this claim or claimed injury?

As it is, it sounds like NY is on a crusade.

That is not required for the law in question - Executive Law §63(12) - to apply.  The statute has been construed in a number of different cases that had nothing to do with Trump.  This isn't some novel invented application of a statute that hasn't been used for exactly this sort of thing before.

[berdie]

Thanks for the explanation.

[LMAO]

Trump fraud ruling that cancels his business licenses is a ‘devastating’ blow for ex-president, experts say
By Katherine Donlevy and
Lydia Moynihan   
Published Sep. 26, 2023, 11:41 p.m. ET

A ruling by a New York judge that Donald Trump had committed fraud — leaving the fate of his business empire dangling in uncertainty — was a “devastating” blow for the former president, legal experts said Tuesday night.

If not successfully appealed, the decision will revoke the Trump Organization’s “business certificates,” preventing the 77-year-old from conducting business in the Empire State until the revocation is rescinded.

A Manhattan judge ruled that the businessman greatly exaggerated the value of his wealth to secure favorable terms with banks, which ultimately led him to worldwide fame — and into the White House.

“The decision today is a final decision that fraud is proven. The judge made this decision on the basis of Trump’s own documents. The evidence is Trump’s own documentation,” Andrew P. Napolitano, a former New Jersey Superior Court judge, told The Post.



more
https://nypost.com/2023/09/26/trump-fraud-ruling-a-devastating-blow-for-ex-president-experts/

Not good

[LMAO]

Thanks for the explanation.

I’ll second that

At first glance, this seems like a political witchhunt. But when it’s explained by @Kamaji, it becomes more in focus