Author Topic: Judge rules Trump committed fraud in building real estate empire  (Read 6652 times)

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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Judge rules Trump committed fraud in building real estate empire
« Reply #100 on: September 28, 2023, 09:50:13 pm »
I said that Trump lied about the value of his assets

How do you know that the Palm Beach County tax assessor didn't lie about the value of his assets?  Oh wait.  The Palm Beach County tax assessor never performed a sales valuation on the property - only a tax assessment.  So basically, the only valuation we have is the one that came from Trump.  So how do you know it isn't accurate since you have no equivalent to compare it to?  Did the prosecutor conduct an independent assessment?  Did the prosecutor introduce any assessments performed by lenders?  The answer to that question is a resounding 'NO'.


and that lie amounts to actions that create an atmosphere that is conducive to fraud

Really?  "Atmosphere that is conducive to fraud"?  Do you have any idea how weak that sounds?  What possible scenario can you come up with where this act promotes, brings about, or contributes to fraud?  Seriously.
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Offline Kamaji

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Re: Judge rules Trump committed fraud in building real estate empire
« Reply #101 on: September 28, 2023, 09:54:06 pm »
How do you know that the Palm Beach County tax assessor didn't lie about the value of his assets?  Oh wait.  The Palm Beach County tax assessor never performed a sales valuation on the property - only a tax assessment.  So basically, the only valuation we have is the one that came from Trump.  So how do you know it isn't accurate since you have no equivalent to compare it to?  Did the prosecutor conduct an independent assessment?  Did the prosecutor introduce any assessments performed by lenders?  The answer to that question is a resounding 'NO'.


Really?  "Atmosphere that is conducive to fraud"?  Do you have any idea how weak that sounds?  What possible scenario can you come up with where this act promotes, brings about, or contributes to fraud?  Seriously.


:facepalm2:

The assessor's determination was made in the ordinary course of the assessor's duties, which apply to all property generally, not just to Trump's property, and Trump was apparently satisfied with that valuation because he never contested it.

You have to provide specific evidence that the assessor failed to do his duty properly before you can make that sort of assumption.

Trump and his lawyers had their opportunity to attack the assessor's valuation, and they didn't, which means that either (a) they cannot because they have no evidence, or (b) they're too incompetent, in either case, the judge was warranted in accepting the assessor's valuation as the only available objective evidence of value.

You can't fathom how lying about the value of your assets could be conducive to committing fraud?  Really?

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Judge rules Trump committed fraud in building real estate empire
« Reply #102 on: September 28, 2023, 09:55:55 pm »
Stop being pig-headed.  The fraudulent act was providing valuations that were false - demonstrably so in the case of Mar-a-Lago - and that were made without any factual basis.

In point of fact, failing to take into account the use restrictions - which Trump admitted to not doing - is almost per-se fraudulent.

Furthermore, the issue is whether, in NY, Trump made false statements regarding his assets; the location of the assets themselves is immaterial.

Again, stop trying to dance around the obvious.

If you don't like reading the opinion because it offends you, then read the statute and the other cases that have been based on it.

@Kamaji

What seems obvious to ME  is that you and the other Trump Haters don't really give a damn about right or wrong. All you care about it hurting Trump.

How about we demand he get charged with breaking some laws in Zimbabwe? After all,chances are he must have flown over that nation at one time or another.

And let's not forget Original Sin! He MUST be guilty of Original Sin!
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline 240B

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Re: Judge rules Trump committed fraud in building real estate empire
« Reply #103 on: September 28, 2023, 10:16:51 pm »

I said that Trump lied about the value of his assets, and that lie amounts to actions that create an atmosphere that is conducive to fraud, and that is all that the statute requires.
Every negotiation on Earth ever is automatically an atmosphere conducive to fraud, by definition. That is the whole point, to get the better deal. Negotiation is about offering less (from one point of view) for more. You have just convicted everyone who has ever made "a good deal" in all of history.

Does not matter what Trump said. If I tell Bank of America that my house is worth $10,000,000, and Bank of America accepts my house as collateral worth ten million, then they, Bank of America, has certified and has assumed the value and the risk. Bank of America has accepted the deal for $10,000,000. They did that, not me.


How does anyone know a piece of 'art' is worth $100,000,000? How is that gauged? It is worth $100,000,000 because the bank and the insurance company "accepted" it at $100,000,000.

I can tell you my car is worth a billion dollars. Who cares? But if the bank accepts it as collateral for a billion dollars, then that is their problem, not mine. Due diligence is their responsibility, not mine.
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists.

Offline DB

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Re: Judge rules Trump committed fraud in building real estate empire
« Reply #104 on: September 28, 2023, 10:41:24 pm »
Every negotiation on Earth ever is automatically an atmosphere conducive to fraud, by definition. That is the whole point, to get the better deal. Negotiation is about offering less (from one point of view) for more. You have just convicted everyone who has ever made "a good deal" in all of history.

Does not matter what Trump said. If I tell Bank of America that my house is worth $10,000,000, and Bank of America accepts my house as collateral worth ten million, then they, Bank of America, has certified and has assumed the value and the risk. Bank of America has accepted the deal for $10,000,000. They did that, not me.


How does anyone know a piece of 'art' is worth $100,000,000? How is that gauged? It is worth $100,000,000 because the bank and the insurance company "accepted" it at $100,000,000.

I can tell you my car is worth a billion dollars. Who cares? But if the bank accepts it as collateral for a billion dollars, then that is their problem, not mine. Due diligence is their responsibility, not mine.

That's generally true. If you hide liabilities on an asset that is used as collateral that is fraud. A liability could be a debt or a restriction on the asset's use that isn't otherwise known.

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Judge rules Trump committed fraud in building real estate empire
« Reply #105 on: September 28, 2023, 10:53:37 pm »
You have to provide specific evidence that the assessor failed to do his duty properly before you can make that sort of assumption.

An $18 million valuation on a $500 million piece of property should suffice.


Trump and his lawyers had their opportunity to attack the assessor's valuation, and they didn't, which means that either (a) they cannot because they have no evidence, or (b) they're too incompetent

No argument there.


You can't fathom how lying about the value of your assets could be conducive to committing fraud?  Really?

So give me the scenario.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

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"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Judge rules Trump committed fraud in building real estate empire
« Reply #106 on: September 28, 2023, 10:55:00 pm »
How does anyone know a piece of 'art' is worth $100,000,000? How is that gauged? It is worth $100,000,000 because the bank and the insurance company "accepted" it at $100,000,000.

I can tell you my car is worth a billion dollars. Who cares? But if the bank accepts it as collateral for a billion dollars, then that is their problem, not mine. Due diligence is their responsibility, not mine.

Correctamundo!
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Judge rules Trump committed fraud in building real estate empire
« Reply #107 on: September 28, 2023, 10:57:44 pm »
That's generally true. If you hide liabilities on an asset that is used as collateral that is fraud. A liability could be a debt or a restriction on the asset's use that isn't otherwise known.

That is true.  However, that has nothing to do with this case.  No one is accusing Trump of putting up property on a loan that had unknown liabilities (such as nuclear waste at the bottom of the pool, and Indian burial ground under the patio, termite infestation, fault line, sink hole, etc.)
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline Kamaji

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Re: Judge rules Trump committed fraud in building real estate empire
« Reply #108 on: September 28, 2023, 11:13:40 pm »
If Trumps valuation was correct, why wasn’t he able to justify that valuation?  He could not provide any evidence to rebut the AG’s evidence of value, and his lawyers in fact admitted that he intentionally failed to take into account the value-lowering effects of the use restrictions.

Trumps lies created and atmosphere that was conducive to fraud, and that is all the statute requires.

Perhaps if Trump had hired decent lawyers, and actually listened to them, he would have been told about this law and the requirement that he not lie about his valuations.  But that’s not Trump.  He doesn’t hire competent lawyers - witness Michael Cohen - and he doesn’t listen to advice.   He thinks he can get away with doing whatever he feels like because he’s special. 

Well, he’s not, and all of his stupid mistakes are about to come home to roost big time.

Too bad, so sad. 

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Judge rules Trump committed fraud in building real estate empire
« Reply #109 on: September 28, 2023, 11:42:29 pm »
If Trumps valuation was correct, why wasn’t he able to justify that valuation?  He could not provide any evidence to rebut the AG’s evidence of value, and his lawyers in fact admitted that he intentionally failed to take into account the value-lowering effects of the use restrictions.

Trumps lies created and atmosphere that was conducive to fraud, and that is all the statute requires.

Perhaps if Trump had hired decent lawyers, and actually listened to them, he would have been told about this law and the requirement that he not lie about his valuations.  But that’s not Trump.  He doesn’t hire competent lawyers - witness Michael Cohen - and he doesn’t listen to advice.   He thinks he can get away with doing whatever he feels like because he’s special. 

Well, he’s not, and all of his stupid mistakes are about to come home to roost big time.

Too bad, so sad.

@Kamaji

He's rude,too!

And ORANGE!
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Offline 240B

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Re: Judge rules Trump committed fraud in building real estate empire
« Reply #110 on: September 28, 2023, 11:49:04 pm »

If Trumps valuation was correct, why wasn’t he able to justify that valuation?  He could not provide any evidence to rebut the AG’s evidence of value, and his lawyers in fact admitted that he intentionally failed to take into account the value-lowering effects of the use restrictions.
Trump and Trump's lawyers let the absurdity of the clown show proceed unimpeded. Because they knew the Judge is a corrupt DNC operative taking orders from Soros. No amount of logic or reality would have prevented the Judge from ruling against Trump. So ... just let them play in their little sandbox admitting all kinds of idiotic so called 'evidence', making all kinds of nonsensical 'rulings'.

All of this will be deliberated on appeal. We can only hope the appellate Judge is independent and not working for Soros and the DNC. Trump needs a 'real' Judge who rules based on 'Law', instead of a political Judge making judgements based on his Leftist ideology.

'Created an atmosphere conducive to fraud' could apply to anything anywhere, including most job interviews, every used car, and every pickup artist in any bar. A liar is guilty of lying, true. But with caveat emptor there is some legal liability on the buyer for due diligence.
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists.

Offline 240B

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Re: Judge rules Trump committed fraud in building real estate empire
« Reply #111 on: September 28, 2023, 11:52:51 pm »
caveat emptor
noun
   1. The axiom or principle in commerce that the buyer alone is responsible for assessing the quality of a purchase before buying.

   2. A commercial principle that without a warranty the buyer takes upon himself the risk of quality.
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists.

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Judge rules Trump committed fraud in building real estate empire
« Reply #112 on: September 29, 2023, 12:40:30 am »
caveat emptor
noun
   1. The axiom or principle in commerce that the buyer alone is responsible for assessing the quality of a purchase before buying.

   2. A commercial principle that without a warranty the buyer takes upon himself the risk of quality.

The key component here that is blatantly missing is the transaction itself.  There is no 'emptor'.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

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-Ayn Rand-

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Judge rules Trump committed fraud in building real estate empire
« Reply #113 on: September 29, 2023, 04:30:56 am »
Trump and Trump's lawyers let the absurdity of the clown show proceed unimpeded. Because they knew the Judge is a corrupt DNC operative taking orders from Soros. No amount of logic or reality would have prevented the Judge from ruling against Trump. So ... just let them play in their little sandbox admitting all kinds of idiotic so called 'evidence', making all kinds of nonsensical 'rulings'.

All of this will be deliberated on appeal.

Just going to point out here that you generally don't get to introduce new evidence in an appeal.  So if Trump and his lawyers chose not to introduce alternative valuations and supporting argument at trial, they can't do it on appeal.

Same applies to any admission of improper evidence introduced by the prosecutor.  If you don't object to it at trial, you can't argue it on appeal.

Quote
We can only hope the appellate Judge is independent and not working for Soros and the DNC. Trump needs a 'real' Judge who rules based on 'Law', instead of a political Judge making judgements based on his Leftist ideology.[/size]

It'll be multiple appellate judges on a panel.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2023, 04:32:07 am by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline Kamaji

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Re: Judge rules Trump committed fraud in building real estate empire
« Reply #114 on: September 29, 2023, 09:45:00 am »
Just going to point out here that you generally don't get to introduce new evidence in an appeal.  So if Trump and his lawyers chose not to introduce alternative valuations and supporting argument at trial, they can't do it on appeal.

Same applies to any admission of improper evidence introduced by the prosecutor.  If you don't object to it at trial, you can't argue it on appeal.

It'll be multiple appellate judges on a panel.


:thumbsup:

Offline Kamaji

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Re: Judge rules Trump committed fraud in building real estate empire
« Reply #115 on: September 29, 2023, 09:48:42 am »
Trump and Trump's lawyers let the absurdity of the clown show proceed unimpeded. Because they knew the Judge is a corrupt DNC operative taking orders from Soros. No amount of logic or reality would have prevented the Judge from ruling against Trump. So ... just let them play in their little sandbox admitting all kinds of idiotic so called 'evidence', making all kinds of nonsensical 'rulings'.

All of this will be deliberated on appeal. We can only hope the appellate Judge is independent and not working for Soros and the DNC. Trump needs a 'real' Judge who rules based on 'Law', instead of a political Judge making judgements based on his Leftist ideology.

'Created an atmosphere conducive to fraud' could apply to anything anywhere, including most job interviews, every used car, and every pickup artist in any bar. A liar is guilty of lying, true. But with caveat emptor there is some legal liability on the buyer for due diligence.

What a fcking pathetic excuse, and so typical of a Trumpista.  Next you’ll be claiming they’re playing 11-dimensional chess. 

It doesn’t work that way.  If you want to win on appeal, you have to build the record at the trial level.  No do-overs on admitting new evidence at the appellate level; that’s fundamental common-law doctrine. 

Face facts, trumpistas:  Trump was so stupid he thought he could lie and lie and lie and get away with it.  Well, now he’s being held to account for his lies and it’s gonna cost him bigly. 

:mauslaff:

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Judge rules Trump committed fraud in building real estate empire
« Reply #116 on: September 29, 2023, 12:38:22 pm »
Tax assessments can be weird, and I also don't know if I've ever heard of someone asking the tax assessor to increase the value of the assessment so they can pay more in taxes.  If you get assessed below market value because of some peculiarity in the assessor's office, you're lucky.

Assessments where I am habitually run below market value.  So am I now liable for fraud if I value my house at what the realtor says is the market rate, rather than the assessed rate? 

More to the point, is this New York DA going to prosecute every instance of a borrower listing a reasonable market value for a piece of property even if it exceeds the assessed value?  Or is this just a Trump thing?

From everything I've read, it sounds like the market value of Trump's property in Miami - as opposed to the tax assessor's valuation --clearly is greatly in excess of that assessed value.   Sounds to me like the judge thinks he found a "gotcha" to get a guy that he really, really wanted to get.

I imagine the question of law presented on appeal will be something like: "is it error for a court to consider conclusive an out-of-state tax-assessed value of a property without regard to other evidence indicating a higher market value"?  Or something like that.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2023, 12:39:19 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Judge rules Trump committed fraud in building real estate empire
« Reply #117 on: September 29, 2023, 12:44:30 pm »
I think it's worth pointing out that fraud in terms of obtaining a loan usually never comes to light unless the borrower defaults on the loan in question, the lender tries to collect, and finds that the amount of the collateral isn't sufficient to repay the loan. That isn't what happened here.

What happened here is that the New York Attorney General went on a fishing expedition combing through Trump records to see if they could find something on which to get him.

I despise Trump personally, but this isn't justice.  It's a witch hunt.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2023, 12:46:11 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline Kamaji

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Re: Judge rules Trump committed fraud in building real estate empire
« Reply #118 on: September 29, 2023, 12:49:57 pm »
Tax assessments can be weird, and I also don't know if I've ever heard of someone asking the tax assessor to increase the value of the assessment so they can pay more in taxes.  If you get assessed below market value because of some peculiarity in the assessor's office, you're lucky.

Assessments where I am habitually run below market value.  So am I now liable for fraud if I value my house at what the realtor says is the market rate, rather than the assessed rate? 

More to the point, is this New York DA going to prosecute every instance of a borrower listing a reasonable market value for a piece of property even if it exceeds the assessed value?  Or is this just a Trump thing?

From everything I've read, it sounds like the market value of Trump's property in Miami - as opposed to the tax assessor's valuation --clearly is greatly in excess of that assessed value.   Sounds to me like the judge thinks he found a "gotcha" to get a guy that he really, really wanted to get.

I imagine the question of law presented on appeal will be something like: "is it error for a court to consider conclusive an out-of-state tax-assessed value of a property without regard to other evidence indicating a higher market value"?  Or something like that.


Question:  if the deed to your house contained a restriction stating that the property could not be used for anything other than a single residence structure, and you were in a neighborhood where the other properties were being built with multi-family apartment units, would you be acting in good faith if you valued your property on the basis that it could be sold to a developer to build multi-family apartment units on it?

That is essentially what Trump was doing - he was intentionally ignoring restrictions that limited the use of the property, and claiming a value that intentionally ignored those restrictions.

Whether he would have gotten away with it or not is irrelevant to the statute in question, which polices conduct that is conducive to fraud, not actual fraud itself.

It is precisely like a speed limit law:  it is no defense to a speeding ticket to say "there was nobody else on the road who might have been injured by my speeding, anyone who was there could have seen me in time to avoid me, and I didn't actually injure anyone."

Just so, it is no defense to a claim under this statute that nobody actually relied on your lies, that anyone who interacted with you could have done their own due diligence and determined the value of the property for themselves, and nobody actually got defrauded by my lies.

Trump consistently came up with very high values that he cannot justify, because he doesn't even have something as simple as a broker's price opinion from another broker saying "I reviewed the property, I found these three comparables, and based on these factors, I determined that the value of Mar-a-Lago is likely between $x million and $y million."

Trump didn't even have someone within his own organization do a simple comparables analysis to gut-check the values he was coming up with.  He just made up whatever numbers he needed to have in order to end up giving his lenders a Statement of Financial Condition that said he was still rich enough to have not violated any of the covenants on his loans.

That is an atmosphere that is conducive to fraud.  The fact that in this case he was dealing with banks that were sophisticated enough, and had enough resources, to do their own fact-checking is neither here nor there; it does not vitiate the fact that he was intentionally lying about the value of his properties.

It's not a witch-hunt, it's the big blowhard with the hopped up, blown out Chevelle with the fat tires on the back finally getting his comeuppance after years and years of burnouts and speeding down main street.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2023, 12:51:04 pm by Kamaji »

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Judge rules Trump committed fraud in building real estate empire
« Reply #119 on: September 29, 2023, 01:30:05 pm »
But even with the existing restrictions, everyone familiar with that market seems to think that $18M is orders of magnitude off.

The judge going with such a ridiculously low number, even considering the restrictions, suggests judicial error to me.  He just determined, as a matter of law, that the out of state assessed tax value of a property equals its market value for purposes of obtaining a loan.  And I'll bet that doesn't withstand appeal because they'll know they don't want to set that precedent.

As for the "everyone does it" defense, it does cut to the issue of fraud if lenders generally understand that borrowers are not providing the assessed tax value as estimated market value.   If the lender isn't deceived, there isn't fraud.

I think it might be different if the judge has used a more reasonable figure for market value - and it should have been the prosecutor's burden to provide that number - and then found that Trump greatly exceeded even that.

I just think the use of that out of state tax assessment as determinative for actual market value in a case of fraud is legal error.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2023, 01:45:55 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline Kamaji

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Re: Judge rules Trump committed fraud in building real estate empire
« Reply #120 on: September 29, 2023, 02:00:52 pm »
But even with the existing restrictions, everyone familiar with that market seems to think that $18M is orders of magnitude off.

The judge going with such a ridiculously low number, even considering the restrictions, suggests judicial error to me.  He just determined, as a matter of law, that the out of state assessed tax value of a property equals its market value for purposes of obtaining a loan.  And I'll bet that doesn't withstand appeal because they'll know they don't want to set that precedent.

As for the "everyone does it" defense, it does cut to the issue of fraud if lenders generally understand that borrowers are not providing the assessed tax value as estimated market value.   If the lender isn't deceived, there isn't fraud.

I think it might be different if the judge has used a more reasonable figure for market value - and it should have been the prosecutor's burden to provide that number - and then found that Trump greatly exceeded even that.

I just think the use of that out of state tax assessment as determinative for actual market value in a case of fraud is legal error.

The judge did not hold that Mar-a-Lago had a value of $18 million.  The judge held that Trump had no basis for the values he put on his SFC and, based on his own lawyers' statements, had intentionally ignored the value-depressing effects of the use restrictions in coming to those values.  The values on the SFCs were therefore necessarily false.

Furthermore, even if one assumes, arguendo, that the value of Mar-a-Lago should have been treated as a disputed issue of fact, it would not be a material fact, because the other properties were also overvalued, even based on actual valuation reports Trump received.

Accordingly, even if the conclusion vis-a-vis Mar-a-Lago was error, it will most likely be treated as harmless error, not reversible error, given the falsification of the values of the other properties.

Let's not suffer from deer-in-the-headlight syndrome and get fixated on one property when multiple properties were at stake.

Offline Kamaji

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Re: Judge rules Trump committed fraud in building real estate empire
« Reply #121 on: September 29, 2023, 02:12:30 pm »
Here are some of the other intentional valuation lies Trump repeatedly made:

Quote
The TrumpTower Triplex
This Court takes judicial notice that the Trump Tower apartment in which Donald Trump resided
for decades (the Triplex ) is 10,996 square feet. NYSCEF Doc. No. 816 at 2. Between 2012
2016, Donald Trump submitted SFCs falsely claiming that the Triplex was 30,000 square feet,
resulting in an overvaluation of between $114-207 million dollars. NYSCEF Doc. Nos. 782 at
Rows 833-834, 1028, 783 at Rows 799-800, 1199, 784 at Rows 843-844, 785 at Rows 882-883,
789 at Row 913, 817. The misrepresentation continued even after defendants received written
notification from Forbes that Donald Trump had been overestimating the square footage ofthe
Triplex by a factor of three.

In opposition, defendants absurdly suggest that the calculation of square footage is a subjective
process that could lead to differing results or opinions based on the method employed to conduct
the calculation. NYSCEF Doc . No. 1293 at 20. Well yes, perhaps, if the area is rounded or
oddly shaped, it is possible measurements of square footage could come to slightly differing
results due to user error. Good-faith measurements could vary by as much as 10-20%, not 200%.
(footnotes omitted)


Quote
Seven Springs Estate

*  *  *

Notwithstanding receiving market values from professional appraisals in 2000, 2006, 2012, and
2014 valuing Seven Springs at or below$ 30 million, DonaldTrump's 2011 SFC reported the
value to be $261million, and his 2012, 2013 and 2014 SFCs reported the value to be $291
million. NYSCEFDoc. Nos. 769, 770, 771, 772.

In early 2016, Cushman & Wakefield performed another appraisal of Seven Springs, which
included the planned development, and determined that as of December 1, 2015, the entire parcel
was worth $ 56.6 million. NYSCEFDoc. Nos. 824 at 9 ; 875; 876.

Even giving defendants the benefit of the $56.6millionfigure as of December1, 2015, the value
submitted on Donald Trump's 2014 SFC was inflated by over400%.  Accordingly, OAG has
demonstrated liability for the false 2014 SFC for fraudulently inflating the value of Seven
Springs
(footnotes omitted)

The full opinion in searchable form can be downloaded from here:  https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/trump-judges-ruling/ce6de7d636227e1b/full.pdf

Let's face facts:  Trump outright lied about the valuations of his properties, not just Mar-a-Lago, to an extent that is simply not explainable by a good-faith error or difference over valuation methods.

And that is sufficient for liability under Exec. Law §63(12).

Offline cato potatoe

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Re: Judge rules Trump committed fraud in building real estate empire
« Reply #122 on: September 29, 2023, 03:15:10 pm »
In other words, Trump gave the judge no other option but to adopt the evidence proffered by the NY AG because Trump offered no other evidence.

Trump simply does not value the services of a competent attorney.  It disqualifies him as a presidential candidate.  His criminal trials will be an embarrassment, and it would not surprise me if he fumbles himself into prison. 

Offline Kamaji

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Re: Judge rules Trump committed fraud in building real estate empire
« Reply #123 on: September 29, 2023, 04:11:04 pm »
Trump simply does not value the services of a competent attorney.  It disqualifies him as a presidential candidate.  His criminal trials will be an embarrassment, and it would not surprise me if he fumbles himself into prison. 

:thumbsup:

Offline 240B

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Re: Judge rules Trump committed fraud in building real estate empire
« Reply #124 on: September 29, 2023, 04:33:04 pm »
Win A Free Office Party — Wellman's Pub and Rooftop | Restaurant | Pub ...

Well, that's it then. Trump is obviously going to prison. @Kamaji has decreed it so.
Time to Party! Beelzebub and his Satanic brood is finally going down!! We got that SOB at last!
Party is at Kamaji's house ...
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists.