Author Topic: Judge rules Trump committed fraud in building real estate empire  (Read 6551 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online mystery-ak

  • Owner
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 383,597
  • Gender: Female
  • Let's Go Brandon!
 Judge rules Trump committed fraud in building real estate empire
by Ella Lee and Zach Schonfeld - 09/26/23 4:39 PM ET



A New York judge on Tuesday found former President Trump liable for fraud, handing a major legal victory to New York Attorney General Letitia James (D) in her sprawling civil case over Trump’s businesses.

New York Supreme Court Judge Arthur Engoron granted James’s request to find Trump liable for the first of seven causes of action she has accused him of in the lawsuit.

Engoron simultaneously denied Trump’s demand to toss the entire suit without trying the case.  The non-jury trial on the remaining matters is set to begin Monday, barring Trump’s separate, last-minute effort for a delay.

Engoron also granted James’s request to sanction five of Trump’s lawyers for bringing up already-dismissed arguments in court, ordering them to pay a $7,500 fine each.

James’s office is suing Trump, the Trump Organization and two of his adult children — Eric Trump and Donald Trump Jr.— claiming more than a decade of fraud. The lawsuit alleges Trump’s company sought lower taxes and better insurance coverage by falsely inflating and deflating the value of its assets.

James’s office is seeking some $250 million in financial penalties. It also seeks to bar Trump and his children from serving as officers or directors of New York-registered or licensed corporations.

DEVELOPING

https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/4224290-judge-rules-trump-committed-fraud-in-building-real-estate-empire/
Proud Supporter of Tunnel to Towers
Support the USO
Democrat Party...the Party of Infanticide

“Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.”
-Matthew 6:34

Online Kamaji

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 58,002
Re: Judge rules Trump committed fraud in building real estate empire
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2023, 09:13:09 pm »
I guess there was a little too much "truthful hyperbole" in those financial statements.

Offline massadvj

  • Editorial Advisor
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,346
  • Gender: Male
Re: Judge rules Trump committed fraud in building real estate empire
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2023, 09:15:24 pm »
The man stuck his hand in the hornet's nest. What will they do if he is elected next year? We will see a hornet swarm unlike anything we have ever seen in this country. 

Offline Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51,621
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
Re: Judge rules Trump committed fraud in building real estate empire
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2023, 09:17:56 pm »
I guess there was a little too much "truthful hyperbole" in those financial statements.

I guess there is a little too much corruption in the New York courts!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online mountaineer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 78,977
Re: Judge rules Trump committed fraud in building real estate empire
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2023, 10:05:58 pm »
🇺🇸 Mike Davis 🇺🇸
@mrddmia
What a joke.

The Democrat New York Attorney General had a Democrat judge simply rule Trump committed fraud.

No trial.

No jury.

For the non-fraud of Trump paying back sophisticated Wall Street banks.

In full.

With interest.

Democrat law-fare.

Appellate courts must reverse.
5:14 PM · Sep 26, 2023
Support Israel's emergency medical service. afmda.org

Online mystery-ak

  • Owner
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 383,597
  • Gender: Female
  • Let's Go Brandon!
Re: Judge rules Trump committed fraud in building real estate empire
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2023, 10:20:46 pm »
From TS

Proud Supporter of Tunnel to Towers
Support the USO
Democrat Party...the Party of Infanticide

“Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.”
-Matthew 6:34

Online mystery-ak

  • Owner
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 383,597
  • Gender: Female
  • Let's Go Brandon!
Proud Supporter of Tunnel to Towers
Support the USO
Democrat Party...the Party of Infanticide

“Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.”
-Matthew 6:34

Online mystery-ak

  • Owner
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 383,597
  • Gender: Female
  • Let's Go Brandon!
Proud Supporter of Tunnel to Towers
Support the USO
Democrat Party...the Party of Infanticide

“Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.”
-Matthew 6:34

Offline LMAO

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15,868
  • Gender: Male
Re: Judge rules Trump committed fraud in building real estate empire
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2023, 11:48:05 am »
🇺🇸 Mike Davis 🇺🇸
@mrddmia
What a joke.

The Democrat New York Attorney General had a Democrat judge simply rule Trump committed fraud.

No trial.

No jury.

For the non-fraud of Trump paying back sophisticated Wall Street banks.

In full.

With interest.

Democrat law-fare.

Appellate courts must reverse.
5:14 PM · Sep 26, 2023

If he paid back the money, what’s the crime?

And isn’t it the job of the lenders to confirm things like your credit score and the real value of your assets before lending someone money? Or am I really missing something?

It would be really nice to get an impartial comment on some of the stuff that’s going on with Trump’s legal troubles. It seems like you get a different view from the attorneys who go on Fox News versus the ones that go on and comment on MSNBC.



« Last Edit: September 27, 2023, 11:55:37 am by LMAO »
I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them.

Barry Goldwater

http://www.usdebtclock.org

My Avatar is my adult autistic son Tommy

Online mountaineer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 78,977
Re: Judge rules Trump committed fraud in building real estate empire
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2023, 12:40:05 pm »
John LeFevre
@JohnLeFevre
The New York judge says Mar-a-Lago is worth between "$18 and $27.6 million."
A nearby vacant lot (2.3 acres) is for sale on Zillow for $200 million.
Mar-a-Lago sits on 17 acres, with waterfront on both sides.
Support Israel's emergency medical service. afmda.org

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

  • Technical
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,181
Re: Judge rules Trump committed fraud in building real estate empire
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2023, 12:55:02 pm »
Yeah I'm on Trump's side with this one.

Online Kamaji

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 58,002
Re: Judge rules Trump committed fraud in building real estate empire
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2023, 01:02:23 pm »
This is a civil case, not a criminal case, so the attorney general must have made a motion for summary judgment which was granted.  That happens quite often in civil litigation.  Hopefully, Trump didn't alienate all of the decent lawyers, and the lawyers representing him in this case have built a case for appeal to get the summary judgment overturned.

Trump is his own worst enemy.

Offline LMAO

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15,868
  • Gender: Male
Re: Judge rules Trump committed fraud in building real estate empire
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2023, 01:03:10 pm »
Yeah I'm on Trump's side with this one.

This Attorney General ran on “getting Trump.”

I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them.

Barry Goldwater

http://www.usdebtclock.org

My Avatar is my adult autistic son Tommy

Online Kamaji

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 58,002
Re: Judge rules Trump committed fraud in building real estate empire
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2023, 01:10:40 pm »
The actual ruling can be downloaded as a pdf here:  https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23991865/trump-ny-fraud-ruling.pdf

Online mystery-ak

  • Owner
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 383,597
  • Gender: Female
  • Let's Go Brandon!
Re: Judge rules Trump committed fraud in building real estate empire
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2023, 01:23:27 pm »
Michael Cohen: NYC Fraud Ruling Will Likely Lead to Trump Bankruptcy

Michael Cohen, a former personal attorney for Donald Trump, predicted Tuesday on CNN’s “The Source” that the former president will likely be bankrupted by the damages awarded in New York Attorney General Letitia James’ civil suit after the judge found Trump is liable for fraud.

https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2023/09/26/michael-cohen-nyc-fraud-ruling-will-likely-lead-to-trump-bankruptcy/
Proud Supporter of Tunnel to Towers
Support the USO
Democrat Party...the Party of Infanticide

“Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.”
-Matthew 6:34

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

  • Technical
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,181
Re: Judge rules Trump committed fraud in building real estate empire
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2023, 01:23:47 pm »
This Attorney General ran on “getting Trump.”

Yes, it's not right. Of course, Trump infuriated 50% of the country so ... that makes this sort of thing more likely I guess. But they could maintain a modicum of impartiality at least.

But it's not right IMO. The only people who can solve this sort of thing are the people themselves.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 79,988
Re: Judge rules Trump committed fraud in building real estate empire
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2023, 01:23:47 pm »
Quote
Taylor Budowich
@TayFromCA

For reference, here’s a patch of trees down the road from the historic Mar-a-Lago property—on a lot that’s a fraction of its size—going for $150,00,000.



7:00 PM · Sep 26, 2023


Offline Right_in_Virginia

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 79,988
Re: Judge rules Trump committed fraud in building real estate empire
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2023, 01:40:52 pm »
Quote
Eric. Trump
@EricTrump

Today, I lost all faith in the New York legal system. Never before have I seen such hatred toward one person by a judge - a coordinated effort with the Attorney General to destroy a man’s life, company and accomplishments. We have run an exceptional company - never missing a loan payment, making banks hundreds of millions of dollars, developing some of the most iconic assets in the world. Yet today, the persecution of our family continues…

6:06 PM · Sep 26, 2023

Offline Right_in_Virginia

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 79,988
Re: Judge rules Trump committed fraud in building real estate empire
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2023, 01:47:17 pm »
Quote
"Remember, these statements, from the Attorney General, are “inadmissible” in New York. Does this feel like a fair application of the law?" (Video)


https://twitter.com/EricTrump/status/1706818960748909037

Offline LMAO

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15,868
  • Gender: Male
Re: Judge rules Trump committed fraud in building real estate empire
« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2023, 01:49:16 pm »
Maybe things work differently in Florida but here in Wisconsin, and auditor comes and evaluates the value of your property. I don’t simply get to state what the value of my property is for tax purposes.

I can see the argument if he defraud investors. But it doesn’t appear that’s the case.

Then again, I’m not a lawyer.
I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them.

Barry Goldwater

http://www.usdebtclock.org

My Avatar is my adult autistic son Tommy

Offline Right_in_Virginia

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 79,988
Re: Judge rules Trump committed fraud in building real estate empire
« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2023, 01:53:09 pm »
This is a civil case, not a criminal case, so the attorney general must have made a motion for summary judgment which was granted.  That happens quite often in civil litigation.  Hopefully, Trump didn't alienate all of the decent lawyers ...

More to the actual point:  Hopefully the decent attorneys won't be stripped of their attorney-client privilege protections and indicted as "co-conspirators"  :crossed:

Online Kamaji

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 58,002
Re: Judge rules Trump committed fraud in building real estate empire
« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2023, 02:06:58 pm »
I would recommend reading through the opinion.  It's not particularly difficult - although the repeated misconduct by Trump's own lawyers does get tiresome - and it should be instructive, because the claim on which summary judgment was granted is not a mere common-law fraud claim, and as the NY courts have construed the relevant statute - Executive Law §63(12), there is no requirement for scienter (intent to defraud) or materiality, or reliance.

As the court noted (specifically on the issue of materiality):  "It is settled that a standalone cause of action under Executive Law §63(12) does not require a demonstration of materiality but merely that an 'act has the capacity or tendency to deceive, or creates an atmosphere conducive to fraud.'  People v. Gen. Elec. Co. ...."

What Donald Trump refers to when he uses the term "truthful hyperbole" is precisely that sort of an act.  Resort to "truthful hyperbole" often enough, and one will eventually run afoul of Executive Law §63(12) - which requires repeated or persistent conduct - and if the stakes are high enough, one will suffer the consequences.

Donald Trump is suffering the consequences of his own inclination to resort to "truthful hyperbole" in most of his business dealings with investors and creditors.

Too bad, so sad, but Trump is solely responsible for having woven the rope that the NY AG is now using to hang him with.

This is not lawfare, or weaponization of the law to go after one's political opponents; this is Donald Trump getting his own comeuppance for his own flagrant actions.  And it is not like this law was not there - it's been on the books for decades and decades - and it's not like it hasn't been used in the past - this opinion is rife with published cases where it has been used against other large operations, such as Dominos Pizza, General Electric, Ford Motor Co., and the like.

As I said before, Trump is his own worst enemy.

Online Kamaji

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 58,002
Re: Judge rules Trump committed fraud in building real estate empire
« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2023, 02:09:59 pm »
More to the actual point:  Hopefully the decent attorneys won't be stripped of their attorney-client privilege protections and indicted as "co-conspirators"  :crossed:

:mauslaff:

They've already had sanctions slapped on them for repeatedly making the same frivolous arguments that have already been ruled upon and denied.  I rather doubt Trump has managed to hire the bestest and the brightest, once again.  For example, one does not - particularly not in the age of Westlaw and Lexis-Nexis electronic research - and in a case with hundreds of millions of dollars at stake, repeatedly cite to a case that has been expressly overruled already.

Online mystery-ak

  • Owner
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 383,597
  • Gender: Female
  • Let's Go Brandon!
Re: Judge rules Trump committed fraud in building real estate empire
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2023, 02:16:21 pm »
 Trump fraud ruling that cancels his business licenses is a ‘devastating’ blow for ex-president, experts say
By Katherine Donlevy and
Lydia Moynihan   
Published Sep. 26, 2023, 11:41 p.m. ET

A ruling by a New York judge that Donald Trump had committed fraud — leaving the fate of his business empire dangling in uncertainty — was a “devastating” blow for the former president, legal experts said Tuesday night.

If not successfully appealed, the decision will revoke the Trump Organization’s “business certificates,” preventing the 77-year-old from conducting business in the Empire State until the revocation is rescinded.

A Manhattan judge ruled that the businessman greatly exaggerated the value of his wealth to secure favorable terms with banks, which ultimately led him to worldwide fame — and into the White House.

“The decision today is a final decision that fraud is proven. The judge made this decision on the basis of Trump’s own documents. The evidence is Trump’s own documentation,” Andrew P. Napolitano, a former New Jersey Superior Court judge, told The Post.



more
https://nypost.com/2023/09/26/trump-fraud-ruling-a-devastating-blow-for-ex-president-experts/
Proud Supporter of Tunnel to Towers
Support the USO
Democrat Party...the Party of Infanticide

“Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.”
-Matthew 6:34

Offline LMAO

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15,868
  • Gender: Male
Re: Judge rules Trump committed fraud in building real estate empire
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2023, 02:16:56 pm »
I would recommend reading through the opinion.  It's not particularly difficult - although the repeated misconduct by Trump's own lawyers does get tiresome - and it should be instructive, because the claim on which summary judgment was granted is not a mere common-law fraud claim, and as the NY courts have construed the relevant statute - Executive Law §63(12), there is no requirement for scienter (intent to defraud) or materiality, or reliance.

As the court noted (specifically on the issue of materiality):  "It is settled that a standalone cause of action under Executive Law §63(12) does not require a demonstration of materiality but merely that an 'act has the capacity or tendency to deceive, or creates an atmosphere conducive to fraud.'  People v. Gen. Elec. Co. ...."

What Donald Trump refers to when he uses the term "truthful hyperbole" is precisely that sort of an act.  Resort to "truthful hyperbole" often enough, and one will eventually run afoul of Executive Law §63(12) - which requires repeated or persistent conduct - and if the stakes are high enough, one will suffer the consequences.

Donald Trump is suffering the consequences of his own inclination to resort to "truthful hyperbole" in most of his business dealings with investors and creditors.

Too bad, so sad, but Trump is solely responsible for having woven the rope that the NY AG is now using to hang him with.

This is not lawfare, or weaponization of the law to go after one's political opponents; this is Donald Trump getting his own comeuppance for his own flagrant actions.  And it is not like this law was not there - it's been on the books for decades and decades - and it's not like it hasn't been used in the past - this opinion is rife with published cases where it has been used against other large operations, such as Dominos Pizza, General Electric, Ford Motor Co., and the like.

As I said before, Trump is his own worst enemy.

Interesting

So what are the chances of Trump getting this ruling overturned?

The natural inclination in anything involving Donald Trump is for people to get in their respective corners and claim “lawfare”  or “nobody is above the law.” It makes it more difficult for us lay people when it comes to legal matters to decipher a lot of this.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2023, 02:19:05 pm by LMAO »
I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them.

Barry Goldwater

http://www.usdebtclock.org

My Avatar is my adult autistic son Tommy