Trump Says Making Ukraine a NATO Member an ‘Unhinged’ Idea, Biden Risking Nuclear War Over ‘Bribes’

[kevindavis007]

There's nothing right with it.

NATO exists to defend its member countries. It does this by providing a security guarantee that an attack on one of them is an attack on all of them.

Ukraine is not a NATO member and it is not covered by the security guarantee in the Alliance’s treaty.

Yet, NATO has helped Ukraine's armed forces, including with equipment and financial support, to fight their individual conflict with Russia.

In so doing, NATO has transformed itself from a defensive umbrella for member states to an offensive alliance open at whim to any state.

NATO has outlived its mission.

Just as long Trumps buddy Putin still has control of Russia, NATO is still needed.


Can't trust anyone from the KGB.

[Timber Rattler]

Trump's unhinged.

 

[Timber Rattler]

Ukraine is not a NATO member and it is not covered by the security guarantee in the Alliance’s treaty.

Ah, but there IS a security agreement in place!

The Bucharest Memorandum of 1994:

https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume%203007/Part/volume-3007-I-52241.pdf

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Being a member of NATO does not preclude member states from making individual decisions to provide military assistance to other countries.  That's exactly what is going on in Ukraine.  Article V has not been invoked, and to the extent some of the individual countries that make up NATO have chosen to help Ukraine on their own, that's up to them.  Likewise, NATO member states like Hungary who have chosen not to provide assistance are not in breach of their NATO obligations because Ukraine is not a NATO operation.

There are dozens of examples over the decades of NATO member states providing assistance to nations outside the umbrella of NATO.  Hell, in Kuwait, we saw NATO member states providing virtually all of the combat troops, aircraft, and ships themselves in a non-NATO operation.

And Russia in the costume of the Soviet Union, while a member of the Warsaw Pact, also provided military assistance to nations outside the umbrella of the Warsaw Pact.

[sneakypete]

Just as long Trumps buddy Putin still has control of Russia, NATO is still needed.


Can't trust anyone from the KGB.

@kevindavis007

Are you really THAT freaking stupid?

[sneakypete]

Ah, but there IS a security agreement in place!

The Bucharest Memorandum of 1994:

https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume%203007/Part/volume-3007-I-52241.pdf

@Timber Rattler

Thanks!

I had no idea such  a thing existed.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Ah, but there IS a security agreement in place!

The Bucharest Memorandum of 1994:

https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume%203007/Part/volume-3007-I-52241.pdf

Exactly!  The U.S. and U.K. specifically gave security assurances to Ukraine in its borders that existed in 1994, which included Crimea and the entire Donbass.  Russia knew that about those security guarantees when it invaded Ukraine in 2014, and then when it invaded again in 2022.  Hell, the Russians themselves -- back when they were led by a guy who wanted peace and believed in national self-determination rather than by the current expansionistic KGB thug -- gave the exact same assurances to Ukraine.

We are on very solid legal ground providing military assistance to Ukraine.  Russia has zero legal justification at all according to the actual agreements Russia itself signed.

[kevindavis007]

Exactly!  The U.S. and U.K. specifically gave security assurances to Ukraine in its borders that existed in 1994, which included Crimea and the entire Donbass.  Russia knew that about those security guarantees when it invaded Ukraine in 2014, and then when it invaded again in 2022.  Hell, the Russians themselves -- back when they were led by a guy who wanted peace and believed in national self-determination rather than by the current expansionistic KGB thug -- gave the exact same assurances to Ukraine.

We are on very solid legal ground providing military assistance to Ukraine.  Russia has zero legal justification at all according to the actual agreements Russia itself signed.

Not the lake

Trump should know that.

[sneakypete]

Trump should know that.

@kevindavis007

He should,but won't unless some of his advisors  that told him about it.

Don't forget,he is NOT a career politician.

[catfish1957]

@kevindavis007

He should,but won't unless some of his advisors  that told him about it.

Don't forget,he is NOT a career politician.

That's the rub.  Trump is the one who claimed only to hire only the best.  We all know how that turned out.

[Right_in_Virginia]

u
Ah, but there IS a security agreement in place!

The Bucharest Memorandum of 1994:

It's worth remembering this Memorandum is not legally binding, as is a Treaty, like NATO.

[sneakypete]

That's the rub.  Trump is the one who claimed only to hire only the best.  We all know how that turned out.

@catfish1957

He hired who  was recommended to him to hire by advisors he was told to hire by people he knew and trusted. He was a total political rookie that made the fatal mistake of trusting the people who worked for him to actually work FOR him.

I don't believe he will be making that mistake this time.

[Right_in_Virginia]

We are on very solid legal ground providing military assistance to Ukraine.

In addition to giving no guarantees, the Bucharest Memorandum is not legally binding.  For example ---- say we find ourselves wanted for a conflict involving Ukraine that has nothing to do with protecting American interests or security, we can choose to sit out any involvement and let the United Kingdom carry on without us.

Not a bad plan considering Europe's been fighting this border dispute for 500 years ---- so by now they've got to be good at it and shouldn't need to drain our treasury and deplete our military readiness to write the lastest chapter of their war chronicles.

[corbe]

@catfish1957

He hired who  was recommended to him to hire by advisors he was told to hire by people he knew and trusted. He was a total political rookie that made the fatal mistake of trusting the people who worked for him to actually work FOR him.

I don't believe he will be making that mistake this time.

   He was told by all his untrusted Advisors (not Ivanka, Don Jr., Eric and Jared) NOT to hire this guy, yet he did anyway



   You can't have it both ways @sneakypete

[sneakypete]

   He was told by all his untrusted Advisors (not Ivanka, Don Jr., Eric and Jared) NOT to hire this guy, yet he did anyway



   You can't hae it both ways @sneakypete

@corbe

So what? He probably doesn't know any more about the army than you do.

Truth  to tell, I am no longer sure *I* know anything about the army anymore,when a professional slacker like that puke can be made General.

The ONLY thing I can GUESS is that he had a VERY powerful political "Rabi" pushing his assignments and promotions. THAT would make a very interesting read if anyone would bother to research it and find out who his political "rabbi's" are/were.

[Kamaji]

Bottom line:  Trump is not fit for office.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

@Timber Rattler

Thanks!

I had no idea such  a thing existed.

You may not have known it was called that, but it was one of four Agreements Russia, the U.S., U.K., and France signed guaranteeing the future security and territorial integrity of some former Soviet Republics in exchange for them giving up their nuclear weapons.

Zero chance Trump doesn't know those agreements were made and signed.  They were raised multiple times publicly by his Administration, and have been discussed a bunch since this invasion.

Regardless, it was his job as both President and now as a presidential candidate to get informed on a key foreign policy on which he has expressed a very hard-line opinion.

You also have to assume that whomever his current foreign policy advisors is/are, they would have told him as well.  If not, then he has selected incompetent ones yet again.

[Hoodat]

NATO exists to defend its member countries. It does this by providing a security guarantee that an attack on one of them is an attack on all of them.
  .  .  .  NATO has outlived its mission.

NATO also exists to keep its member states from going rogue.  Seventy-five years of peace between Germany and France, Turkey and Greece, UK expansionism, etc. had been a vastly underrated benefit.

Ukraine is not a NATO member and it is not covered by the security guarantee in the Alliance’s treaty.

Yet, NATO has helped Ukraine's armed forces, including with equipment and financial support, to fight their individual conflict with Russia.

NATO has done no such thing.

[Kamaji]

@catfish1957

He hired who  was recommended to him to hire by advisors he was told to hire by people he knew and trusted. He was a total political rookie that made the fatal mistake of trusting the people who worked for him to actually work FOR him.

I don't believe he will be making that mistake this time.

Every time this lame excuse is made for Trump's failures, it simply confirms the fact that Trump was, and is, unfit for office.  This "excuse" simply says that Trump is so uneducated, so ignorant, and so pliable, that he cannot be trusted to make even minimally competent hiring choices; this is one of the core skills that a competent president must have, and the fact that Trump does not have it simply means that he is not competent to be president, not then, not now, not ever.

Thank you for proving the point that Trump is not fit for office.

[catfish1957]

Every time this lame excuse is made for Trump's failures, it simply confirms the fact that Trump was, and is, unfit for office.  This "excuse" simply says that Trump is so uneducated, so ignorant, and so pliable, that he cannot be trusted to make even minimally competent hiring choices; this is one of the core skills that a competent president must have, and the fact that Trump does not have it simply means that he is not competent to be president, not then, not now, not ever.

Thank you for proving the point that Trump is not fit for office.

Yep, and put be in the camp that thinks "Trump is not fit for office" too.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Thank you for proving the point that Trump is not fit for office.

If the people/advisors with whom he now surrounds himself aren't giving him any better advice than he got before, then he in fact hasn't learned anything, and a second term won't be any better than his first.

Trump is on record as wanting to cut off all aid to Ukraine.  So either his "new" advisors are telling him that and he"s just accepting their opinions, or that's just all him.

[Kamaji]

If the people/advisors with whom he now surrounds himself aren't giving him any better advice than he got before, then he in fact hasn't learned anything, and a second term won't be any better than his first.

Trump is on record as wanting to cut off all aid to Ukraine.  So either his "new" advisors are telling him that and he"s just accepting their opinions, or that's just all him.

Trump is not fit for office.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Trump is not fit for office.

Good Lord, you're boring.   

[sneakypete]

Every time this lame excuse is made for Trump's failures, it simply confirms the fact that Trump was, and is, unfit for office.  This "excuse" simply says that Trump is so uneducated, so ignorant, and so pliable, that he cannot be trusted to make even minimally competent hiring choices; this is one of the core skills that a competent president must have, and the fact that Trump does not have it simply means that he is not competent to be president, not then, not now, not ever.

Thank you for proving the point that Trump is not fit for office.

@Kamaji

Blah,blah,BullBush squared,blah.

If it rains,you blame it  on Trump.

Class envy is NEVER pretty.

[sneakypete]

Trump is not fit for office.

@Kamaji

I know.

He's rude,he's rich,and he's  orange!