Trump Says Making Ukraine a NATO Member an ‘Unhinged’ Idea, Biden Risking Nuclear War Over ‘Bribes’

[Right_in_Virginia]

It is true that the Budapest Memorandum does not create a legal obligation for the signatories to provide military assistance to Ukraine. 

Exactly my point ---- and this is a most excellent reason to ask what the hell we're doing, and why.

[Hoodat]

@Hoodat

True,but NATO nations are clearly supporting Ukraine.

Correct.  But they are doing this outside that umbrella.  NATO as an organization has provided zero assistance for Ukraine.

BTW,why are people like you  supporting the Soviets?

I don't.  Try to keep up.

[kevindavis007]

Exactly my point ---- and this is a most excellent reason to ask what the hell we're doing, and why.

So Russia can be weakened! What is wrong with that?

[Hoodat]

Exactly my point ---- and this is a most excellent reason to ask what the hell we're doing, and why.

We are providing military equipment to Ukraine because they were invaded by a hostile bully who had committed atrocities against their civilians and engaged in numerous war crimes.  We are supporting Ukraine's efforts to drive the invader off of their soil by arming those willing to fight to bring this about.

In terms of foreign policy, we have learned from history that when bullies go unchecked, bad things end up happening.  In this instance, we are fortunate that Ukraine is willing to fight this battle themselves, asking only for the hardware to make their efforts effective.  And in terms of economic policy, we have learned that increased cartel power on global stage in terms of petroleum and gas reserves can have a detrimental effect on the US economy, thus we have a vested interest in protecting the independence of those reserves.  In other words, US interests are served by having an independent Ukraine oil and gas industry instead of having those reserves incorporated into the Russian oligarchy.

But then you knew all that already.

[sneakypete]

@sneakypete

We don't agree on our involvement in this conflict or our role in instigating it.   .

@Right_in_Virginia

WTH????

HOW did "WE (America)" instigate this war.

Did WE order the Russians to invade Ukraine and try to turn it into a vassal nation?

If you think we did,WHEN did this happen?

[Hoodat]

@Right_in_Virginia

WTH????

HOW did "WE (America)" instigate this war.

They didn't.  And she knows it.  This lie has been debunked several times already on these threads.  Yet here she is telling it again.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

@Right_in_Virginia

WTH????

HOW did "WE (America)" instigate this war.

Did WE order the Russians to invade Ukraine and try to turn it into a vassal nation?

If you think we did,WHEN did this happen?

It's the KGB disinformation line that we instigated a coup in Ukraine in 2014, when in fact the Ukrainian Parliament and people rebelled en masse against a President who was trying to sell them down the river to Russia instead of expanding ties with Europe.

The mass of Ukrainians didn't want to return to being a Russian vassal state, so they rebelled and tossed him out.  Free elections since then have confirmed that the Ukrainians prefer closer tiea to Europe, not Russia.

[Timber Rattler]

It's the KGB disinformation line that we instigated a coup in Ukraine in 2014, when in fact the Ukrainian Parliament and people rebelled en masse against a President who was trying to sell them down the river to Russia instead of expanding ties with Europe.

The mass of Ukrainians didn't want to return to being a Russian vassal state, so they rebelled and tossed him out.  Free elections since then have confirmed that the Ukrainians prefer closer tiea to Europe, not Russia.

The Kremlin is also propagating the lie that there was some kind of peace deal in April 2022 (after the invasion) that gave the Russians everything they wanted but that it was scuttled by the Brits.  That one drives me crazy, especially since the story originated from a single source that was actually HOSTILE to Putin and Russia, but with a passage cherry-picked and taken out of context.

This is the article:

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/russian-federation/world-putin-wants-fiona-hill-angela-stent

And this is the passage in question:

Despite calls by some for a negotiated settlement that would involve Ukrainian territorial concessions, Putin seems uninterested in a compromise that would leave Ukraine as a sovereign, independent state—whatever its borders. According to multiple former senior U.S. officials we spoke with, in April 2022, Russian and Ukrainian negotiators appeared to have tentatively agreed on the outlines of a negotiated interim settlement: Russia would withdraw to its position on February 23, when it controlled part of the Donbas region and all of Crimea, and in exchange, Ukraine would promise not to seek NATO membership and instead receive security guarantees from a number of countries. But as Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov stated in a July interview with his country’s state media, this compromise is no longer an option. Even giving Russia all of the Donbas is not enough. “Now the geography is different,” Lavrov asserted, in describing Russia’s short-term military aims. “It’s also Kherson and the Zaporizhzhya regions and a number of other territories.” The goal is not negotiation, but Ukrainian capitulation.

[sneakypete]

   He was told by all his untrusted Advisors (not Ivanka, Don Jr., Eric and Jared) NOT to hire this guy, yet he did anyway



   You can't have it both ways @sneakypete

@corbe

He made mistake,something I am sure you are VERY familiar with.

Name someone who hasn't.

[sneakypete]

Bottom line:  Trump is not fit for office.

@Kamaji

Of course he isn't. He is rich,rude,and he has orange hair.

I bet you voted for Bush,didn't you?

[sneakypete]

Every time this lame excuse is made for Trump's failures, it simply confirms the fact that Trump was, and is, unfit for office. 

@Kamaji

The simple truth is you envy him because he is wealthy,and you hate him because in addition,he is both  rich and rude.

[sneakypete]

Yep, and put be in the camp that thinks "Trump is not fit for office" too.

PUT  you there? You have been there ever since the day Trump first announced he was running for President.

[sneakypete]

Wow.  Can't you even think of a new insult?

You're the one who made the lame excuse for Trump's failures, not me.  Maybe you should stop supporting losers.

@Kamaji

First of all,it is a statement of fact. If you chose to believe  that  your opinions are bullshit,that's on you.

Secondly,perfection and accuracy never need replacing.

[sneakypete]

@sneakypete

We don't agree on our involvement in this conflict or our role in instigating it.  I respect that your opinion is sincere and born of your political and life experiences.  So, too, is mine.

As to the "Better red than dead" slogan, I think it's meaningless in this shitshow.

@Right_in_Virginia

It's not meaningless to the people fighting and dying or being crippled for life in Ukraine.

They want to be free of their communist oppressor. What is so hard to understand about that?

[sneakypete]

Correct.  But they are doing this outside that umbrella.  NATO as an organization has provided zero assistance for Ukraine.


I don't.  Try to keep up.

@Hoodat

You either support Ukraine or  you  support the Soviets.

Make up your mind.

[sneakypete]

It's the KGB disinformation line that we instigated a coup in Ukraine in 2014, when in fact the Ukrainian Parliament and people rebelled en masse against a President who was trying to sell them down the river to Russia instead of expanding ties with Europe.

The mass of Ukrainians didn't want to return to being a Russian vassal state, so they rebelled and tossed him out.  Free elections since then have confirmed that the Ukrainians prefer closer tiea to Europe, not Russia.

@Maj. Bill Martin

Thanks,I don't remember any of that. Must have been when I was getting blasted with chemo. That crap WILL wipe our your personal "wet hard drive". I can remember,in color,getting diaper changes,and have trouble remembering what I did last week,and given that almost all of my  time is spent at home doing nothing but watching tv,it shouldn't be that hard to remember.

I make notes on my cell phone about what I need to buy when  I get to the grocery store,and I hang the damn thing around my neck so I don't lose it. Then when I do get to the grocery store,I forget to look at it to see what I am supposed to buy.

Chemo is without doubt a lifesaver,but it comes at a cost.

FINALLY starting to get a little better after 2 or 3 years,but it is a long,slow process.

[DefiantMassRINO]

 

To all the aspiring nuclear powers in the World, let Ukraine and Libya's Muammar Gaddafi demonstrate an important lesson ... NEVER give up your nuclear programs.

Nuclear powers do not invade other nuclear powers.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

It was what is called the "Euromaidan", which began in late 2013.  You can read about it here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan

Basically, despite the Ukrainian parliament having voted overwhelmingly for a trade deal with Europe rather than for the Russian alternative, and the President himself having previously supported it publicly, the President suddenly reversed course after Russia started applying lots of heat for Ukraine to reject the European deal.

The rest of Ukraine rebelled.

[Right_in_Virginia]

@Right_in_Virginia

It's not meaningless to the people fighting and dying or being crippled for life in Ukraine.

They want to be free of their communist oppressor. What is so hard to understand about that?

That's not what's happening here @sneakypete   

[sneakypete]

That's not what's happening here @sneakypete   

@Right_in_Virginia

It's not?

So,what is happening,puppy dog kisses for all?

[Right_in_Virginia]

@Right_in_Virginia

It's not?

So,what is happening,puppy dog kisses for all?

No, no puppy dog kisses @sneakypete   But, neither is it some glorious anti-Communist crusade.

[sneakypete]

No, no puppy dog kisses @sneakypete   But, neither is it some glorious anti-Communist crusade.

@Right_in_Virginia

There is no such thing as an "anti-communist crusade" that ISN'T "GLORIOUS".

The only good communist really IS a dead communist.

[DefiantMassRINO]

The Ukrainians are willing to fight and die for their own country ... that's more than we can say for Iraqis and Afghans ... and we wasted Trillion$ to watch those countries implode once America left.

[Right_in_Virginia]

@Right_in_Virginia

There is no such thing as an "anti-communist crusade" that ISN'T "GLORIOUS".

The only good communist really IS a dead communist.

I simply do not think this shitshow in Ukraine is about stopping communism @sneakypete    Using your formula "the only good communist is a dead communist",  Zelensky would be a target, not a hero.