Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs

[LMAO]

It's truly fascinating how a lie first told by FDR - the consummate liberal/progressive - about a particular government charity benefit - continues to be swallowed, whole cloth, by those who claim to be oh-so conservative.

Entrenched beliefs

And those don’t go away easily just because you present the facts. It’s part of being human

[libertybele]

At a certain point, yes, it is.  When supposed conservatives start acting like starry-eyed liberals, and pouting about how - in contradistinction to every other government welfare benefit - that there is something special about social security that makes it "YOUR" money.

It isn't your money, it is nothing more than government-funded charity, that can be yanked at any time by a Congressional act that repeals it.

Actually, there are those obviously, who don't share your opinion nor do they agree with the 'laws' unfairly enacted.  Law is law I get that, but government overreach and bureaucracy isn't necessarily acceptable. 

Calls for abolishing the IRS and auditing the FED has been ongoing especially by both Ron Paul and his son Rand, and IMHO with good reason.

[Bigun]

Actually, there are those obviously, who don't share your opinion nor do they agree with the 'laws' unfairly enacted.  Law is law I get that, but government overreach and bureaucracy isn't necessarily acceptable. 

Calls for abolishing the IRS and auditing the FED has been ongoing especially by both Ron Paul and his son Rand, and IMHO with good reason.

Please add me to that list @libertybele

[bigheadfred]

Entrenched beliefs

And those don’t go away easily just because you present the facts. It’s part of being human

A belief extolled by the government. 

[libertybele]

Entrenched beliefs

And those don’t go away easily just because you present the facts. It’s part of being human

Fact:  Money is taken out every paycheck and designated to FICA and Medicare.  Where it goes, what is done with the money or what laws are written -- EVERYONE has that money deducted.  Most if given a 'choice' would obviously keep that money.  They are being taxed on their labor period.

Fact:  Social security benefits have been paid out to those who qualify for a certain period at a certain age for decades.  It is mandated that everyone get on to Medicare at age 65.

So again, try to tell millions of people that the money that was arbitrarily taken out of their checks and made to jump onto Medicare don't have a right to that $$$.  Law or no law -- monies were taken out period -- not by choice but by force.

Go ahead, cuss in big bold letters and tell me to read the law.  It makes no difference to my opinion; ABOLISH THE IRS and Audit the Fed!

[LMAO]

Fact:  Money is taken out every paycheck and designated to FICA and Medicare.  Where it goes, what is done with the money or what laws are written -- EVERYONE has that money deducted.  Most if given a 'choice' would obviously keep that money.  They are being taxed on their labor period.

Fact:  Social security benefits have been paid out to those who qualify for a certain period at a certain age for decades.  It is mandated that everyone get on to Medicare at age 65.

So again, try to tell millions of people that the money that was arbitrarily taken out of their checks and made to jump onto Medicare don't have a right to that $$$.  Law or no law -- monies were taken out period -- not by choice but by force.

Go ahead, cuss in big bold letters and tell me to read the law.  It makes no difference to my opinion; ABOLISH THE IRS and Audit the Fed!

Lol

I don’t recall me cussing at all

But you’re right. Reforms are going to be difficult because of the misconceptions people have when it comes to both programs. I’m very well aware of the politics when it comes to both programs

But the fact is there is no right you have to that money once taken out of your check. The law and at least two court rulings confirm that

[Smokin Joe]

At a certain point, yes, it is.  When supposed conservatives start acting like starry-eyed liberals, and pouting about how - in contradistinction to every other government welfare benefit - that there is something special about social security that makes it "YOUR" money.

It isn't your money, it is nothing more than government-funded charity, that can be yanked at any time by a Congressional act that repeals it.

I quoted the law.
As originally written, which conveys intent as sold to the entire country.
We will disagree.

[Kamaji]

Fact:  Money is taken out every paycheck and designated to FICA and Medicare.  Where it goes, what is done with the money or what laws are written -- EVERYONE has that money deducted.  Most if given a 'choice' would obviously keep that money.  They are being taxed on their labor period.

Fact:  Social security benefits have been paid out to those who qualify for a certain period at a certain age for decades.  It is mandated that everyone get on to Medicare at age 65.

So again, try to tell millions of people that the money that was arbitrarily taken out of their checks and made to jump onto Medicare don't have a right to that $$$.  Law or no law -- monies were taken out period -- not by choice but by force.

Go ahead, cuss in big bold letters and tell me to read the law.  It makes no difference to my opinion; ABOLISH THE IRS and Audit the Fed!

My GOD!!!!

The regular income tax is also taken out of your paycheck - each and every paycheck - does that mean you still have a vested ownership interest in that money?  No, it does not.

Why are you so hellbent on believing liberal lies about social security?

[Smokin Joe]

My GOD!!!!

The regular income tax is also taken out of your paycheck - each and every paycheck - does that mean you still have a vested ownership interest in that money?  No, it does not.

Why are you so hellbent on believing liberal lies about social security?

See the law, post 63, this thread. That's why.

[libertybele]

Lol

I don’t recall me cussing at all

But you’re right. Reforms are going to be difficult because of the misconceptions people have when it comes to both programs. I’m very well aware of the politics when it comes to both programs

But the fact is there is no right you have to that money once taken out of your check. The law and at least two court rulings confirm that

I didn't mean to imply that you were cussing.

No the fact of the matter is quite plain, simple and undisputable that paycheck stubs clearly show $$ taken out for FICA and Medicare.  We should therefore ALL demand that the FED be audited and the IRS abolished, for those reasons. That simple.

I think you would be hard pressed to find many who would voluntarily hand over that money given a choice.

[Kamaji]

See the law, post 63, this thread. That's why.

You still haven't shown me a single statute that gives you a vested property interest in the funds in the U.S. treasury that derived from the social security income tax imposed on you, nor have you shown a single statute that gives you a property right to be paid social security welfare benefits that cannot be taken away with a simple Congressional act.

By contrast, if you do have a property interest in something, that interest generally cannot be taken away without due compensation.

So, no, you haven't shown jack-shit.  All you have shown is that you, too, are willing to throw your conservative principles overboard for the sake of a liberal/progressive lie that flatters you.

[libertybele]

My GOD!!!!

The regular income tax is also taken out of your paycheck - each and every paycheck - does that mean you still have a vested ownership interest in that money?  No, it does not.

Why are you so hellbent on believing liberal lies about social security?

That's just like saying that you agree to pay your neighbor $150 for mowing your lawn and you keep $50 of that money because you promise later on down the road when he becomes of retirement age, he'll get some of that money back.  Get real.

Why are you so hellbent on believing that the gov't has a right to some of the money that you've earned??

Close to taxation without representation IMHO.

[LMAO]

I think you would be hard pressed to find many who would voluntarily hand over that money given a choice.

Absolutely

That’s why paying taxes in general is not voluntary

[libertybele]

You still haven't shown me a single statute that gives you a vested property interest in the funds in the U.S. treasury that derived from the social security income tax imposed on you, nor have you shown a single statute that gives you a property right to be paid social security welfare benefits that cannot be taken away with a simple Congressional act.

By contrast, if you do have a property interest in something, that interest generally cannot be taken away without due compensation.

So, no, you haven't shown jack-shit.  All you have shown is that you, too, are willing to throw your conservative principles overboard for the sake of a liberal/progressive lie that flatters you.

A liberal progressive lie --- you got that one right, but why as a conservative are you shoving it down my throat to get me to accept the statutes and laws surrounding them that are purely b.s.?

[libertybele]

Former Rep. Ron Paul of Texas called the recent IRS fiasco troubling — but writes that the only way Congress can protect the freedoms of Americans from a long pattern of suspected IRS abuse is to “shutter the doors” of the agency “once and for all.”

The longtime GOP congressman writes that IRS agents in the 1930s were essentially “hit squads” against opponents of the New Deal, and that allegations of IRS abuse spanned the administrations of Presidents Kennedy, Nixon, Clinton and George W. Bush.

“The bipartisan tradition of using the IRS as a tool to harass political opponents suggests that the problem is deeper than just a few ‘rogue’ IRS agents — or even corruption within one, two, three or many administrations,” Dr. Paul writes in his weekly column, “Texas Straight Talk. “Instead, the problem [lies] in the extraordinary power the tax system grants the IRS.”

The libertarian and tea party hero goes on to argue that the power of the IRS can only be countered with a complete overhaul to the country’s tax system.

“The federal government will get along just fine without its immoral claim on the fruits of our labor, particularly if the elimination of federal income taxes are accompanied by serious reduction in all areas of spending, starting with the military spending beloved by so many who claim to be opponents of high taxes and big government,” he writes. “While it is important for Congress to investigate the most recent scandal and ensure all involved are held accountable, we cannot pretend that the problem is a few bad actors. The very purpose of the IRS is to transfer wealth from one group to another while violating our liberties in the process, thus the only way Congress can protect our freedoms is to repeal the income tax and shutter the doors of the IRS once and for all.”

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/may/20/ron-paul-fix-irs-shutting-it-once-and-all/

[Bigun]

Former Rep. Ron Paul of Texas called the recent IRS fiasco troubling — but writes that the only way Congress can protect the freedoms of Americans from a long pattern of suspected IRS abuse is to “shutter the doors” of the agency “once and for all.”

And the only way to do that is to get rid of the Marxist income tax.

[libertybele]

And the only way to do that is to get rid of the Marxist income tax.

Definitely not a very popular subject with most members of Congress!

[Fishrrman]

LMAO wrote:
"Show me were in the SS law that says you’re entitled to get back what you put in..."

I'm offering a "personal experience" post for your edification.

I stopped paying into Social Security in 1979 -- 43 years ago. Not one cent into SS since then. Every year I get a statement (I'll reckon you get one too), with almost nothing on it but "zeros".

Instead, I paid into Railroad Retirement -- which taxes the railroad employee at a significantly HIGHER RATE than people pay into SS.

Over my working career, I paid a little less than $67,000 in taxes to RR retirement.
I retired in 2012 (just having turned 62) and have been collecting since.

Since my retirement date, I've been paid in benefits nearly 8x the amount of my total contributions in my career. You do the math.

I'm 73. So... if I'm able to live a decade more, I'll get 'em for nearly TWICE that amount.

There is NO WAY that I could have made "private investments" under a "privatized" system that would equal this. I simply didn't have the investment savvy, and I doubt "the markets" would have provided in any case.

So... you'll get no complaints from me that the current retirement system is rigged against the worker. It's done well by me.

And most railroad retirees get MORE THAN I do.

[DB]

I've paid the maximum limit into SS for about 38 years. Something less than maximum for the prior 8 years. With a good number of those years being self employed meaning I paid the full amount and not split between me and the employer. Even when not "self employed" the vast majority of those years it was paid by my own business which was still me. Just last year was over $18k in social security taxes paid. So I've paid a small fortune into SS over the last 46 years.

[libertybele]

I've paid the maximum limit into SS for about 38 years. Something less than maximum for the prior 8 years. With a good number of those years being self employed meaning I paid the full amount and not split between me and the employer. Even when not "self employed" the vast majority of those years it was paid by my own business which was still me. Just last year was over $18k in social security taxes paid. So I've paid a small fortune into SS over the last 46 years.

 

[Bigun]

@Fishrrman

Using the info you provided, you were paying approximately $175 per month into RR retirement for 32 years.

I'm not about to do the math on a Saturday afternoon, but will assure you that if you had done nothing more than deposited that $175 each month is a passbook savings account for 32 years and never touched it until you retired you could be making current withdrawals many times what you are currently getting and still be able to leave ALL of your savings to whomever you like when you die.

[Hoodat]

For $175/month (which is less money than they take in Social Security taxes from someone making $14,500 per year), at 5% after 32 years, that person would have over $165K.  The interest alone on that would pay $689/month without dipping into the principle.

Consider this railroad job pays $26K.  If you add to it all the Social Security taxes paid over 32 years at 5%, that $165K would grow to $456K which would generate $1900/month without touching the principle.  If they chose to draw down the principle, they could collect $2450 per month for the next 30 years.  How many railroad workers making $26K per year would be collecting $2450 per month in social security payments, not to mention being able to hand the remainder to relatives when they die?