Author Topic: Ukraine 4  (Read 219458 times)

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Online Timber Rattler

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #2225 on: January 31, 2024, 02:26:01 pm »
Well this can't be good...

Zelensky to oust Ukraine’s top general amid tension over new mobilization

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/01/31/zelensky-zaluzhny-ukraine-commander-ousted/

Quote
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky told his top commander, Gen. Valery Zaluzhny, that he was firing him in a meeting on Monday, according to a senior official familiar with the conversation — a disruptive military shake-up amid Ukraine’s struggles on the battlefield and after months of friction between the president and the popular general.

Zaluzhny remains in his post for now, but a formal presidential decree is expected to confirm his ousting nearly two years into Russia’s invasion and as Moscow’s forces appear to be gaining the strategic initiative on some parts of the front.

On Monday, Zelensky’s spokesman, Serhiy Nykyforov, denied that Zaluzhny had been fired. “There is no subject of conversation,” Nykyforov told reporters. “There is no order. The president did not dismiss the commander in chief.”

Nykyforov on Wednesday did not immediately reply to messages from The Washington Post seeking any updated comment.

A highly anticipated counteroffensive, using soldiers trained by NATO allies and with Western weapons and equipment, reclaimed little territory, falling far short of expectations. Zaluzhny and his American counterparts disagreed sharply over tactics, and the Ukrainian commander ultimately ignored U.S. advice to concentrate his forces, which he believed could have led to far higher casualties.

In their conversation Monday, Zelensky told Zaluzhny that Ukrainians have grown tired of war and that the country’s international backers have also slowed military assistance, so perhaps a new commander would rejuvenate the situation, the person familiar with their conversation said.

Two individuals spoke about the meeting on the condition of anonymity to be candid about the highly sensitive situation with unpredictable implications for the war and Ukraine’s security. Senior members of Zaluzhny’s staff are also expected to be removed, one person said.

In Monday’s meeting, differences between the two boiled over because of disagreement about how many soldiers Ukraine needs to mobilize this year, according to the two people familiar with the exchange.

Zaluzhny proposed mobilizing close to 500,000 troops, a figure Zelensky viewed as impractical given the scarcity of uniforms, guns and training facilities and potential challenges related to recruitment, the people said. Zelensky has also publicly said that Ukraine lacks the funds to pay so many new conscripts.

Zaluzhny countered that Ukraine is already short of forces due to mounting casualties and needs to match 400,000 new soldiers that Russia plans to mobilize, one person familiar with the conversation said.

EXCERPT
aka "nasty degenerate SOB," "worst of the worst at Free Republic," "Garbage Troll," "Neocon Warmonger," "Filthy Piece of Trash," "damn $#%$#@!," "Silly f'er," "POS," "war pig," "neocon scumbag," "insignificant little ankle nipper," "@ss-clown," "neocuck," "termite," "Uniparty Deep stater," "Never Trump sack of dog feces," "avid Bidenista," "filthy Ukrainian," "war whore," "fricking chump," psychopathic POS, and depraved SOB.

"In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act."  ---George Orwell

"If you want peace, prepare for war." ---Flavius Vegetius Renatus

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #2226 on: January 31, 2024, 02:55:01 pm »
Good move, it should drive the MAGA Minions crazy:


https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1752558067604931042?t=6_8epWgi5UFpARKPwdz64A&s=19

@kevindavis007

VERY clever move you "Ah hates rude rich orange man!" fools are making by attacking his followers instead of trying to convince them to just join your "Merry Band" of jealous cretins.

Who knows,IF something were to happen that allowed the Dims to win their "election war against Rude Orange Man",you might need those votes.

And you won't get them.

Not that you will really care,because you will be too busy  doing your little "superiority dances" in  your living rooms.

Or will enjoy it until the government orders you to take illegal aliens into your home so they will have  somewhere to live,or just takes your home away from you because you are not a registered Dim (just assuming,here),and thus "the enemy".

Then you will discover that dancing in public,even "superiority dancing" is illegal without a permit.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #2227 on: January 31, 2024, 03:00:33 pm »
Well this can't be good...

Zelensky to oust Ukraine’s top general amid tension over new mobilization

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/01/31/zelensky-zaluzhny-ukraine-commander-ousted/

EXCERPT

"In their conversation Monday, Zelensky told Zaluzhny that Ukrainians have grown tired of war and that the country’s international backers have also slowed military assistance, so perhaps a new commander would rejuvenate the situation, the person familiar with their conversation said."

It's anybody's guess at this point,but Zelensky MIGHT be right,and this is just an example of a General trying to take over a Presidency.

One thing is for certain,when you start losing or just not gaining ground in a war,it is because of something the enemy  is doing,or something your own commander is NOT doing.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Online Timber Rattler

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #2228 on: January 31, 2024, 03:21:41 pm »
"In their conversation Monday, Zelensky told Zaluzhny that Ukrainians have grown tired of war and that the country’s international backers have also slowed military assistance, so perhaps a new commander would rejuvenate the situation, the person familiar with their conversation said."

It's anybody's guess at this point,but Zelensky MIGHT be right,and this is just an example of a General trying to take over a Presidency.

One thing is for certain,when you start losing or just not gaining ground in a war,it is because of something the enemy  is doing,or something your own commander is NOT doing.

No, I don't think that Zaluzhny has any political ambitions, like say McClellan during the Civil War, but he is clearly a prima donna, much like Patton, and actually worked a few miracles in 2022.  He became something of a cult hero in the Ukrainian milblogger community, and started believing in his own invincibility.  He also has a big mouth and talks too much with the media about planning and ops.  I was also aware that NATO advisors urged him this time last year to use a concentrated "iron fist" strategy in the South with the western weapons that were on the way but he stubbornly insisted on trying to attack on three separate fronts, while simultaneously defending Bakhmut, thus diluting the remainder of the Ukrainians' offensive strength.  Hence, the failed counteroffensive that he and members of Zelensky's government broadcast to the world months before it started, giving the Russians time to turn southern Ukraine into one vast minefield.

So here we are, the moment of truth between Zaluzhny and Zelensky.
aka "nasty degenerate SOB," "worst of the worst at Free Republic," "Garbage Troll," "Neocon Warmonger," "Filthy Piece of Trash," "damn $#%$#@!," "Silly f'er," "POS," "war pig," "neocon scumbag," "insignificant little ankle nipper," "@ss-clown," "neocuck," "termite," "Uniparty Deep stater," "Never Trump sack of dog feces," "avid Bidenista," "filthy Ukrainian," "war whore," "fricking chump," psychopathic POS, and depraved SOB.

"In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act."  ---George Orwell

"If you want peace, prepare for war." ---Flavius Vegetius Renatus

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #2229 on: January 31, 2024, 04:37:02 pm »
No, I don't think that Zaluzhny has any political ambitions, like say McClellan during the Civil War, but he is clearly a prima donna, much like Patton, and actually worked a few miracles in 2022.  He became something of a cult hero in the Ukrainian milblogger community, and started believing in his own invincibility.  He also has a big mouth and talks too much with the media about planning and ops.  I was also aware that NATO advisors urged him this time last year to use a concentrated "iron fist" strategy in the South with the western weapons that were on the way but he stubbornly insisted on trying to attack on three separate fronts, while simultaneously defending Bakhmut, thus diluting the remainder of the Ukrainians' offensive strength.  Hence, the failed counteroffensive that he and members of Zelensky's government broadcast to the world months before it started, giving the Russians time to turn southern Ukraine into one vast minefield.

So here we are, the moment of truth between Zaluzhny and Zelensky.

@Timber Rattler

Well,a very basic truth  of life is "There can only be ONE "HE MAN BOSS DOG" in ANY  dog pound."

I guess we are going to find out who the top dog is in Ukraine. I can only hope that it is the right one,and the
Russian  AND the Ukrainian  people are not the ones to suffer the consequences.

What is needed,of course,is an uprising in Russia,however unlikely it is that will happen. There is NO person living in Russia today that was born there that has ever lived free for even ONE moment in his or her life. They are born as slaves to the state,and they die as slaves to the state.

If we don't stop this NOW while it is within our  ability to do so  "on the cheap/minimum loss of US lives",who is going  to stop it when it happens in the US 10 or 20 years from now?

And make no mistake about it,it WILL continue to happen all over the world until people stand up to their totalitarian political masters and stop it.

AFATG,stopping it NOW  in Ukraine would mean stopping it with  the minimum amount of lost lives,ESPECIALLY  if it would encourage the Russian people to once again overthrow Communism and have fair elections.

This would leave China as the only "National Slave State" in the world,and in this,WE,THE PEOPLE of America as as much to blame as the Chinese because we are buying from them because we can "buy low and sell high" to make more profits. Just HOW freaking stoopid  ARE the globalists that think this is a good thing because  they get to increase their profit margins enough to get a bonus at the end of the year?
 
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Online Timber Rattler

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #2230 on: January 31, 2024, 05:49:27 pm »


If we don't stop this NOW while it is within our  ability to do so  "on the cheap/minimum loss of US lives",who is going  to stop it when it happens in the US 10 or 20 years from now?


So how do you do that?
aka "nasty degenerate SOB," "worst of the worst at Free Republic," "Garbage Troll," "Neocon Warmonger," "Filthy Piece of Trash," "damn $#%$#@!," "Silly f'er," "POS," "war pig," "neocon scumbag," "insignificant little ankle nipper," "@ss-clown," "neocuck," "termite," "Uniparty Deep stater," "Never Trump sack of dog feces," "avid Bidenista," "filthy Ukrainian," "war whore," "fricking chump," psychopathic POS, and depraved SOB.

"In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act."  ---George Orwell

"If you want peace, prepare for war." ---Flavius Vegetius Renatus

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #2231 on: January 31, 2024, 05:56:27 pm »
So how do you do that?

@Timber Rattler

By supporting  Ukraine with both the militarily equipment it needs,as well as working behind the scenes with other nations to get them to add or increase their support.

And by electing Trump instead of a Biden clone,come the next election.

Make no mistake about it,if the Ukrainian/Russian War ends with a neo-Soviet victory,the chance to eliminate that evil disappears for at least another generation.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline DB

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #2232 on: February 01, 2024, 12:36:55 am »
@Timber Rattler

By supporting  Ukraine with both the militarily equipment it needs,as well as working behind the scenes with other nations to get them to add or increase their support.

And by electing Trump instead of a Biden clone,come the next election.

Make no mistake about it,if the Ukrainian/Russian War ends with a neo-Soviet victory,the chance to eliminate that evil disappears for at least another generation.

Trump doesn't support Ukraine. Has already said so.

Online mountaineer

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #2233 on: February 01, 2024, 04:24:40 pm »
Hungary's Viktor Orban and EU leaders to face off over Ukraine aid at crucial summit
1st February 2024, 04:56 EST
By Laura Gozzi
BBC News
Quote
European leaders are meeting on Thursday in Brussels in the hope of ending a standoff over financial aid for Ukraine.

Hungary's Prime Minister Viktor Orban vetoed a €50bn ($55bn; £43bn) aid package for Kyiv last December.

Polish PM Donald Tusk said he could not accept Mr Orban's "strange and very egoistic game", adding Ukraine stood to lose if Hungary influenced EU policy.

The summit takes place against the backdrop of major farmers' protests. ...

Orbán Viktor
@PM_ViktorOrban
Mission accomplished. Hungary’s funds will not end up in Ukraine and we have a control mechanism at the end of the first and the second year. Our position on the war in Ukraine remains unchanged: we need a ceasefire and peace talks.
9:31 AM · Feb 1, 2024
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #2234 on: February 02, 2024, 06:00:25 am »
Ukraine sinks Russian Tarantul-III class corvette in Black Sea.


https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1753049912906846668
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #2235 on: February 02, 2024, 06:03:22 am »
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline Hoodat

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If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #2237 on: February 02, 2024, 05:45:12 pm »
Ukraine sinks Russian Tarantul-III class corvette in Black Sea.
...

These videos give a bit more context to the story:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkGVjAl6Z74&t=489s


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stt4Wy_6K0A

The time and geography context into which this seems to fit is that Ukraine had taken out a radar installation near where tis ship was sunk that was part of Russia's threat detection network guarding Sebastopol and other air bases. Tarantul-III class corvettes were designed for anti-aircraft defense, with radar, SAMs, and a CIWS. It is very possible that Ivanovets was a radar picket to either plug the hole in the Russians' radar network or to supplement it.

The splashes seen in at least one of the sea drones' videos is probably shell splashed from the CIWS, close but not hitting.
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Online mountaineer

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #2238 on: February 02, 2024, 06:54:29 pm »
Katya Sedgwick
@KatyaSedgwick
Meanwhile in Ukraine: a street named after the great Russian Jewish painter Isaak Levitan is renamed after a WWII Ukrainian butcher.
12:15 PM · Feb 2, 2024

Eduard Dolinsky
@edolinsky
Lutsk City Council renamed the Jewish painter Isaak Levitan street after notorious antisemite and OUN leader Stepan Lenkavsky. In summer 1941 at OUN’s conference Lenkavsky declared: «In relation to Jews we’ll take every measure to destroy them».
4:42 AM · Feb 2, 2024
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Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #2239 on: February 02, 2024, 08:57:43 pm »
Pointing this out should not be necessary, but Lenkavsky was honored for his work promoting Ukrainian independence. The Gestapo imprisoned him - wanting independence from Germany as well as from Russia probably didn't endear him with Hitler any more than it endeared him to Stalin - complicating the Ukrainians are Nazis narrative.
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #2240 on: February 02, 2024, 11:49:43 pm »
Katya Sedgwick
@KatyaSedgwick
Meanwhile in Ukraine: a street named after the great Russian Jewish painter Isaak Levitan is renamed after a WWII Ukrainian butcher.
12:15 PM · Feb 2, 2024

Eduard Dolinsky
@edolinsky
Lutsk City Council renamed the Jewish painter Isaak Levitan street after notorious antisemite and OUN leader Stepan Lenkavsky. In summer 1941 at OUN’s conference Lenkavsky declared: «In relation to Jews we’ll take every measure to destroy them».
4:42 AM · Feb 2, 2024

@mountaineer

Please define  how you interpret the words  "a WWII Ukrainian butcher."

"Butcher" has an entirely different meaning in wartime than it does in peacetime.

Or it seems to be that way to me,anyhow.
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Online mountaineer

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #2241 on: February 03, 2024, 12:03:41 am »
Please define  how you interpret the words  "a WWII Ukrainian butcher."
I did not write the tweet, of course. I assume the writer would call a man who has expressed the desire to exterminate Jews a "butcher."
Quote
After Operation Barbarossa began, Lenkavskyi, by then known as a veteran of the Ukrainian nationalist movement, supported the Lviv pogroms, saying on 18 July 1941, "As for Jews, we are taking all measures leading to their extermination."
Bandera, Ukraine & the Holocaust Part II: 1939-1943". History at War. 22 January 2015.

The Lviv progroms were violent and brutal:
Quote
... There were beatings, sexual assaults and humiliations, murders by the urban crowd, shooting by soldiers, and ritual humiliations; Jewish apartments were robbed, but not their businesses, if we can speak of the businesses nationalized by the Soviets as in some sense still Jewish. ... The Lviv pogrom did great damage to the Jews of the city. Many men suffered wounds, especially head wounds, and many women suffered forms of sexual assault. All who were taken to the prisons suffered trauma, and the Jewish community of Lviv at large was put into a precarious position. It is hard to estimate the number of fatalities from the Lviv pogrom. ...
A Slaughter of Jews in Ukraine, Tablet Magazine.

Again, since I'm not the one who called Lenkavskyi a butcher, I only can assume his participation in the above atrocities is what inspired Sedgwick's tweet.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #2242 on: February 03, 2024, 12:11:06 am »
Battle for Bakhmut: Russia Retreats in ‘Bad Order’ as Ukrainians Gain 1km of Territory, British Intel Claims

The battle for Bakhmut has apparently taken a turn in favour of Ukraine, with the Russians retreating in “bad order”, according to UK intel.

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2023/05/13/battle-for-bakhmut-russia-retreats-in-bad-order-as-ukrainians-gain-1km-of-territory-british-intel-claims/

@mystery-ak

Is it time yet for another Russian General to "commit suicide"?
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #2243 on: February 03, 2024, 12:14:29 am »
My prediction is that the above bolded will not happen because if you launch an invasion of the home territory of a nuclear power like Russia, you risk....



Nope.  That's one reason I don't think we can let the junior partner in the China/Russia partnership win in Ukraine.  We have to show the rest of the world that we're willing to stand against aggression.  If we don't, we'll lose too much influence, and other nations will be easily bullied by the Chinese and Russians.

The surest way to guarantee Chinese success is for us to retreat into isolationism.  That doesn't mean we should start committing U.S. troops, but surely providing weapons to those who are willing to commit their own troops is doable.

@Maj. Bill Martin

I couldn't agree more,even  though  it has been over a decade since I have been in Russia or talked with  an actual Russian.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #2244 on: February 03, 2024, 12:16:51 am »
No, Pete, you are not the only one. That has been a concern of mine for decades, (like Freeper Jeff Head, if you recall him).  People have long said we'd sell people the rope to hang us, and Biden is trying to become salesman of the year.

@Smokin Joe

I remember him well.

He and I was good on-line friends and agreed on pretty  much  everything.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #2245 on: February 03, 2024, 12:20:36 am »
IF (and that's a big if) the powers that be in Russia can keep it quiet (enough), they will at some point declare 'victory', and bring the remnants of their Army home, after extended security duty in the Eastern parts of the country (and Siberia for the loudest) to face down any ambitious Chinese.

No one will be fooled who really, really, doesn't want to be, but damned few will be talking openly about that, and not for long.

In Russia, defeat will not be mentioned aloud, or only nervously whispered about.

@Smokin Joe

Not by anybody that wants to keep living,anyhow.

Still,I remember being shocked down to my  toes when Yeltsin was elected as President of Russia,and hoped it was the beginning of fair and open  elections.

It was,too.

The problem is it was also the end of them as the underground dedicated commies spent his who term planning on how to steal the next election. Now that they have,there will be NO MORE fair elections in Russia until Putin and a number of cabinet members are backed against a wall and shot.

« Last Edit: February 03, 2024, 12:24:35 am by sneakypete »
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Offline DefiantMassRINO

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #2246 on: February 03, 2024, 12:28:00 am »
Ukraine will not make significant territorial gains without air supremacy.

Russia has no tradition of representative government.
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I reserve my God-given rights to be wrong and to be stupid at all times.

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Comrades, I swear on Trump's soul that I am not working from a CIA troll farm in Kiev.

Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #2247 on: February 03, 2024, 05:03:17 pm »
@mountaineer

Please define  how you interpret the words  "a WWII Ukrainian butcher."

"Butcher" has an entirely different meaning in wartime than it does in peacetime.
...

Good catch. I missed that word "butcher". Per this short bio, https://www.encyclopediaofukraine.com/display.asp?linkpath=pages%5CL%5CE%5CLenkavskyStepan.htm , the guy was imprisoned by the Gestapo in 1941, much of it in Auschwitz (Oświęcim), for 3 1/2 years. As reprehensible as his 1940 or 1941 comment was, he wasn't doing any butchery (and may have had his perspective on Jewish people changed during his time in Auschwitz, who knows?). But devotees of the Ukrainians-Are-Nazis narrative are as long on purple prose as they are short on facts.
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #2248 on: February 04, 2024, 03:59:02 am »
Ukraine hits Russia's Volgograd oil refinery in latest drone attack, source says

Tom Balmforth  |  February 3, 2024  |  11:24 AM EST


KYIV, Feb 3 (Reuters) - Two Ukrainian attack drones struck the largest oil refinery in southern Russia on Saturday, a source in Kyiv told Reuters, detailing the latest in a series of long-range attacks on Russian oil facilities.

Local authorities in Russia said earlier that a fire had been extinguished at the Volgograd refinery following a drone attack. Oil producer Lukoil (LKOH.MM), opens new tab, which owns the refinery, later said the plant was working as normal.

The Kyiv source said the operation by the SBU security service struck the primary processing facility, without which the refinery could lose significant production capacity.

Ukrainian officials seldom take responsibility publicly for deep strike attacks on Russian territory.

The Volgograd refinery is the latest in a series of facilities to be targeted by drones. Kyiv sees such infrastructure as important for the Kremlin's war effort.  .  .  .

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraines-sbu-hits-russias-volgograd-oil-refinery-drone-attack-source-2024-02-03/
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Online Smokin Joe

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #2249 on: February 04, 2024, 04:07:29 am »
Good catch. I missed that word "butcher". Per this short bio, https://www.encyclopediaofukraine.com/display.asp?linkpath=pages%5CL%5CE%5CLenkavskyStepan.htm , the guy was imprisoned by the Gestapo in 1941, much of it in Auschwitz (Oświęcim), for 3 1/2 years. As reprehensible as his 1940 or 1941 comment was, he wasn't doing any butchery (and may have had his perspective on Jewish people changed during his time in Auschwitz, who knows?). But devotees of the Ukrainians-Are-Nazis narrative are as long on purple prose as they are short on facts.
Historically, in that era, the Ukrainians were stuck between the people who delivered the Holodomor on the one hand and real Nazis who despised the Slavic peoples and regarded them as subhuman on the other.  Not good prospects for being treated well or fairly, either way. Being Jewish was just icing on that cake.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis