Author Topic: Ukraine 4  (Read 220012 times)

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Online bigheadfred

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #550 on: June 20, 2023, 10:24:22 pm »
In the public eye, from that point on, the indiscriminate bombing of German population centers was considered justified retaliation. That same mindset carried over into the incendiary bombing of virtually every major city in Japan. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were among four which had not been severely burned, and that's why they were on the target list for the A-Bomb.

IIRC, Nagasaki and Hiroshima were intentionally left unscathed so they could be targets for the A-bomb.
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Offline berdie

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #551 on: June 20, 2023, 10:44:44 pm »
From what I have read Hiroshima and Nagasaki were major hubs for military weapon production.

I also read that the geographical location would prevent wide spread nuclear dispersion due to the low elevation. I don't know if that is true or not.

Offline kevindavis007

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #552 on: June 20, 2023, 11:50:44 pm »
Well, I guess the Russian Space program is going down even more:



“Uran battalion”: Russia’s space agency recruits soldiers to fight in Ukraine – Financial Times


https://euromaidanpress.com/2023/06/20/uran-battalion-russias-space-agency-recruits-soldiers-to-fight-in-ukraine-financial-times/?swcfpc=1
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Offline Timber Rattler

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #553 on: June 20, 2023, 11:57:21 pm »
From what I have read Hiroshima and Nagasaki were major hubs for military weapon production.

I also read that the geographical location would prevent wide spread nuclear dispersion due to the low elevation. I don't know if that is true or not.

Hiroshima was a major Japanese military headquarters location and Nagasaki a longtime port and commerce center.  Nagasaki actually was not the primary target for the second atomic bomb mission---Kokura, site of one of Japan’s largest munitions plants, was the primary target.  But the Bockscar diverted from there to Nagasaki because of heavy cloud cover.

And most people don't know that the Nagasaki mission was almost a complete fiasco, and Paul Tibbets threatened to court martial Bockscar pilot Charles Sweeny after landing on fumes and nearly crashing.  The story is told here:

https://thebulletin.org/2015/08/the-harrowing-story-of-the-nagasaki-bombing-mission/

and

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bockscar
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #554 on: June 21, 2023, 12:41:05 am »
Hiroshima was a major Japanese military headquarters location and Nagasaki a longtime port and commerce center.  Nagasaki actually was not the primary target for the second atomic bomb mission---Kokura, site of one of Japan’s largest munitions plants, was the primary target.  But the Bockscar diverted from there to Nagasaki because of heavy cloud cover.

And most people don't know that the Nagasaki mission was almost a complete fiasco, and Paul Tibbets threatened to court martial Bockscar pilot Charles Sweeny after landing on fumes and nearly crashing.  The story is told here:

https://thebulletin.org/2015/08/the-harrowing-story-of-the-nagasaki-bombing-mission/

and

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bockscar

@Timber Rattler

Thank you for posting that,and especially for posting the links.
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Online Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #555 on: June 21, 2023, 01:17:22 am »
Russia continues its atrocities against the Ukrainian people:


What do we know about the 'massive' drone attack on Kyiv overnight?

20 June 2023 16:55, UK


Russia launched another "massive" drone attack on Kyiv overnight, according to the head of the city's military administration.




https://news.sky.com/video/ukraine-news-what-do-we-know-about-the-massive-drone-attack-on-kyiv-overnight-12906314
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Online Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #556 on: June 21, 2023, 04:07:22 am »
Nice article, @Timber Rattler

Offline Timber Rattler

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #557 on: June 21, 2023, 10:27:51 am »
Nice article, @Timber Rattler

Thanks!  There are a few more details here on Sweeney's Wiki entry:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Sweeney

Quote
After Bockscar returned to Tinian, Tibbets recorded that he was faced with the dilemma of considering “if any action should be taken against the airplane commander, Charles Sweeney, for failure to command.” After meeting on Guam with Tibbets and Sweeney, General Curtis LeMay, chief of staff for the Strategic Air Forces, confronted Sweeney, stating, "You f****d up, didn't you, Chuck?", to which Sweeney made no reply. LeMay then turned to Tibbets and told him that an investigation into Sweeney's conduct of the mission would serve no useful purpose.

Tibbets was the one who committed the original sin of ordering the mission to proceed despite the early problems, especially when the reserve fuel pump went bad.  But he was ready to throw his buddy Sweeney under the bus to CYA after Doolittle made some noise on Okinawa after the near crash during landing.  Moreover, Sweeney had never flown a combat mission before, so he really had no business being at the Bockscar's yoke for such an important mission.  LeMay let them both off the hook though, after all was said and done.

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Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #558 on: June 21, 2023, 01:37:08 pm »
Hiroshima was a major Japanese military headquarters location and Nagasaki a longtime port and commerce center.  Nagasaki actually was not the primary target for the second atomic bomb mission---Kokura, site of one of Japan’s largest munitions plants, was the primary target.  But the Bockscar diverted from there to Nagasaki because of heavy cloud cover.

And most people don't know that the Nagasaki mission was almost a complete fiasco, and Paul Tibbets threatened to court martial Bockscar pilot Charles Sweeny after landing on fumes and nearly crashing.  The story is told here:

https://thebulletin.org/2015/08/the-harrowing-story-of-the-nagasaki-bombing-mission/

and

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bockscar

Several IJN ships were built at Hiroshima, and it probably also did ship repairs. Per this book by a former IJA pilot, https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=kamikaze%20by%20yasuo%20kuwahara%20book&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-153677-323661-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=102&keyword=SRP&crlp=_&MT_ID=&geo_id=&rlsatarget=dat-2328903066751594:loc-190&adpos=&device=c&mktype=&loc=86275&poi=&abcId=&cmpgn=422834741&sitelnk=&adgroupid=1233652293629336&network=s&matchtype=b&msclkid=48f61de05c211367fe987972a070626d , there also was at least one airbase near Hiroshima (Kuwahara was in Hiroshima when the A-bomb was dropped on it).
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Online mountaineer

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #559 on: June 21, 2023, 07:33:02 pm »
Rand Paul
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The good news is that Ukraine caught their highest judge hiding some of his more than $2 million in bribes in pickle jars. The bad news is that Ukraine, consistently ranked as one of the most corrupt nations on the planet, still has high-ranking officials robbing it blind.

This might be a salient point when Ukraine returns to Congress to beg for more US taxpayer funds. Why won’t Democrats accept my call for a Special Inspector General to oversee the billions we send to Ukraine?

Ukraine jails rogue judge who hid bribes in pickle jars
3:08 PM · Jun 21, 2023
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Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #560 on: June 21, 2023, 08:03:26 pm »
Jailing a corrupt judge should be regarded by Congress as a bad thing? How Bidenesque!
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline Ghost Bear

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #561 on: June 21, 2023, 08:14:48 pm »
Rand Paul
@RandPaul
The good news is that Ukraine caught their highest judge hiding some of his more than $2 million in bribes in pickle jars. The bad news is that Ukraine, consistently ranked as one of the most corrupt nations on the planet, still has high-ranking officials robbing it blind.

This might be a salient point when Ukraine returns to Congress to beg for more US taxpayer funds. Why won’t Democrats accept my call for a Special Inspector General to oversee the billions we send to Ukraine?

Ukraine jails rogue judge who hid bribes in pickle jars
3:08 PM · Jun 21, 2023

I'm tired of people talking about how corrupt Ukraine is, so I did a quick search and found this site, the Corruption Perceptions Index. Looking at the rankings for 2022 (the most recent year they have rankings for) shows that Ukraine has a score of 33/100 (lower score = more corrupt) placing them in a tie for spot 116 out of 180 countries ranked. Russia has a score of 28/100, placing them in a tie for spot 137 out of 180 countries ranked.

So for me, the argument that "oh no, Ukraine is sooo corrupt!" just doesn't hold water. Russia is more corrupt.  For that matter, countries that we count as allies or at least friends don't score much better: Turkey scores 36/100, while India scores 40/100.

I wish they would stop pretending they care about corruption now, all of a sudden.

Let it burn.

Offline berdie

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #562 on: June 21, 2023, 08:22:30 pm »
Let's say, for the sake of argument, Ukraine has corrupt officials. What does that have to do with being invaded by another country and bombed to smithereens?

I'm pretty sure we have our share of corrupt officials.

Online mountaineer

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #563 on: June 21, 2023, 08:23:51 pm »
I would hope we all agree that there are utterly corrupt public officials in the US, just as there are in Ukraine, and most likely in Russia, as well.
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Offline Ghost Bear

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #564 on: June 21, 2023, 08:25:33 pm »
Let's say, for the sake of argument, Ukraine has corrupt officials. What does that have to do with being invaded by another country and bombed to smithereens?

I'm pretty sure we have our share of corrupt officials.

On the website that I linked to above, the U.S. scores 69/100, placing us in spot 24 out of 180 countries: just behind Seychelles and just ahead of Bhutan.
Let it burn.

Offline Kamaji

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #565 on: June 21, 2023, 08:40:18 pm »
I'm tired of people talking about how corrupt Ukraine is, so I did a quick search and found this site, the Corruption Perceptions Index. Looking at the rankings for 2022 (the most recent year they have rankings for) shows that Ukraine has a score of 33/100 (lower score = more corrupt) placing them in a tie for spot 116 out of 180 countries ranked. Russia has a score of 28/100, placing them in a tie for spot 137 out of 180 countries ranked.

So for me, the argument that "oh no, Ukraine is sooo corrupt!" just doesn't hold water. Russia is more corrupt.  For that matter, countries that we count as allies or at least friends don't score much better: Turkey scores 36/100, while India scores 40/100.

I wish they would stop pretending they care about corruption now, all of a sudden.



:thumbsup:

Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #566 on: June 21, 2023, 09:01:13 pm »
Let's say, for the sake of argument, Ukraine has corrupt officials. What does that have to do with being invaded by another country and bombed to smithereens?
...

Slanders such as that Ukraine is one of the most corrupt nations on Earth or that Ukrainians are neo-Nazis smokescreen the simple fact that Russia is trying to restore the Soviet empire.
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline Kamaji

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #567 on: June 21, 2023, 09:04:03 pm »
Slanders such as that Ukraine is one of the most corrupt nations on Earth or that Ukrainians are neo-Nazis smokescreen the simple fact that Russia is trying to restore the Soviet empire.

Exactly.

Offline Timber Rattler

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #568 on: June 21, 2023, 09:12:18 pm »
Some context...the corrupt judge was busted in 2016 and went on the lam in 2017, so this all happened well before the Russian invasion.

Quote
Former judge Chaus — who ruled in several political proceedings in favor of former President Petro Poroshenko’s allies — earned a notorious reputation after he was busted in 2016 hiding his bumper bribe stash in pickle jars in his wife’s garden and his own car.

Chaus initially denied the allegations and said he borrowed the hidden money to build a new house.

But investigators said Chaus demanded a bribe from a married couple to deliver a milder sentence on the wife’s mother, who was charged with illegal trade in powerful medical substances.

Chaus pled not guilty and claimed that the couple pushed him to take the bribe. Later he said the case against him was politically motivated.

Even though the Ukrainian parliament permitted his arrest in 2016, Chaus used judicial immunity and left the country to find shelter in Moldova.

Though Ukraine had requested Chaus’ extradition from Moldova in 2017, it took four years before he was finally hunted down, after moving between different apartments in the neighboring country.

They finally got him though.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #569 on: June 21, 2023, 11:47:22 pm »
Let's say, for the sake of argument, Ukraine has corrupt officials. What does that have to do with being invaded by another country and bombed to smithereens?

I'm pretty sure we have our share of corrupt officials.
To put it mildly...
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Offline libertybele

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #570 on: June 22, 2023, 12:24:39 am »
Zelensky admits slow progress but says offensive is not a movie

President Volodymyr Zelensky has acknowledged battlefield progress has been "slower than desired", weeks into Ukraine's military offensive to recapture areas occupied by Russia.

"Some people believe this is a Hollywood movie and expect results now. It's not," he told the BBC.

"What's at stake is people's lives."

Ukraine says its counter-offensive has reclaimed eight villages so far in the southern region of Zaporizhzhia and Donetsk to the east.

Mr Zelensky said the military push was not going easily because 200,000 sq km (77,220 sq miles) of Ukrainian territory had been mined by Russian forces.

"Whatever some might want, including attempts to pressure us, with all due respect, we will advance on the battlefield the way we deem best," Mr Zelensky added.

He reinforced the need for Ukraine to be given security guarantees from Nato but said ultimately the goal was membership of the defensive alliance.

Nato's secretary general made clear this week that no plan was on the table to issue an invitation to Ukraine at next month's summit in Lithuania......

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65971790
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Offline Bigun

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #571 on: June 22, 2023, 12:25:23 am »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
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Online Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #572 on: June 22, 2023, 02:27:29 am »
Some context...the corrupt judge was busted in 2016 and went on the lam in 2017, so this all happened well before the Russian invasion.

They finally got him though.

Just a reminder here.  Zelenskiy was elected in 2019 as a reformer on an anti-corruption platform.  When pressed by a US President to hire a particular judge, he did not bend to that pressure, unlike his predecessor.  And the judge in question above was brought to justice by Zelenskiy.

Ukraine is not squeaky clean by any means.  But over the past few years, they have made great strides to rid their country of corrupt officials.  Videos have been posted on these threads showing where Ukrainian servicemen have been doing their duty to the people, arresting corrupt cops and bringing corrupt government officials to justice.  Since the disaster of Yanukovitch, the Ukrainian people have risen up and demanded better.  And better is what they are getting under the current President.

If you are looking for corruption, you will find plenty of it inside I-495.  Sure, there's a lot of graft going on with the transfer of weapons to Ukraine.  But it is Washington, not Kyiv, that is reaping the gains.
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Offline Elderberry

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #573 on: June 22, 2023, 11:25:34 am »
Russian Military Uses China in Sourcing Banned Tech from 59 U.S. Firms

Newsweek By Daniel Bush On 6/21/23

ussia is exploiting loopholes in export controls to buy vast quantities of technology from the West that it is using to fight its war against Ukraine, with much of the material passing through China, Newsweek has found. More than 60 percent of the imported critical components in Russian weapons are coming from U.S. companies.

The scope of the tech still reaching Russia is significantly larger than acknowledged by Western officials, who frequently tout the export controls and sanctions system they have imposed against Moscow—in part to try to stop it from getting components for weapons.

Russia imported $20.3 billion in components associated with military equipment between March and December of last year, according to an analysis by KSE Institute, a think tank at the Kyiv School of Economics, to which Newsweek was given exclusive access. The figure is higher than previously reported and represents just a 15 percent drop from the year prior to Russia's invasion of Ukraine in February 2022.

Companies based in the U.S. produced 64 percent of the dual-use goods—components that can be used for military purposes, as well as for consumer products such as automobiles and household appliances—that Russia imported between March and December of 2022, according to the Russian trade data.

Overall, Russia bought technology that had been manufactured by 155 companies headquartered in the U.S. or Europe, as well as in Asia and the Middle East. According to separate data compiled by Ukrainian authorities, 66 percent of the foreign critical components found in weapons systems the Russian military has used in Ukraine were manufactured by companies headquartered in the U.S.

"What we see from this data is that Russia's military still relies mostly on Western components" for its weapons systems, Elina Ribakova, the director of the International Affairs Program at the Kyiv School of Economics, told Newsweek.

Some aspects of Russia's recent trade in foreign technology have previously been reported. But taken together, the KSE report and Newsweek's further reporting provides the most comprehensive portrait to date of the extent to which Russia is evading export controls and sanctions.

The picture that emerges is one of weak trade compliance practices in parts of the private sector, myriad enforcement challenges for Western governments, and a complex global supply chain for dual-use technology.  This account is based on new Russian trade data and previously unreported information compiled by Ukrainian authorities on the Russian weapons systems recovered from the battlefield, as well as on interviews with American and European officials, export control experts, military analysts, and others, some of whom requested anonymity to discuss sensitive intelligence matters.



Much more: https://www.newsweek.com/exclusive-russias-vast-sanctions-evasion-secures-us-european-tech-weapons-1807939?amp=1

Offline Kamaji

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #574 on: June 22, 2023, 11:50:51 am »
Ukraine strikes bridge to Crimea, say Russian-appointed officials

By Reuters
June 22, 2023

Ukrainian missiles struck the Chonhar road bridge connecting Crimea with Russian-held parts of the southern Kherson region overnight, forcing traffic to be diverted to a different route, Russian-appointed officials said on Thursday.

The so-called “gate to Crimea”, known by Russians with a different spelling as the Chongar Bridge, is one of a handful of links between Crimea – which Moscow annexed from Ukraine in 2014 – and mainland Ukraine.

It is on a route used by the Russian military to move between Crimea and other parts of Ukraine under its control.

There was no immediate comment from Kyiv, which has said it wants to retake Crimea and drive all Russian forces from its territory.

Vladimir Saldo, the Russian-appointed governor of Kherson, parts of which Russian forces have captured during what Moscow calls its “special military operation”, said the road bridge had been damaged but that there were no casualties.

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2023/06/22/ukraine-strikes-bridge-to-crimea-say-russian-appointed-officials/