Ukraine 4

[mystery-ak]

Ukraine 3
https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,478214.0.html


Ukraine 2 which is locked

https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,468874.0.html

[Cyber Liberty]

 

[kevindavis007]

https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPR/status/1657016296897224705

[mystery-ak]

Battle for Bakhmut: Russia Retreats in ‘Bad Order’ as Ukrainians Gain 1km of Territory, British Intel Claims

The battle for Bakhmut has apparently taken a turn in favour of Ukraine, with the Russians retreating in “bad order”, according to UK intel.

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2023/05/13/battle-for-bakhmut-russia-retreats-in-bad-order-as-ukrainians-gain-1km-of-territory-british-intel-claims/

[kevindavis007]

https://twitter.com/officejjsmart/status/1657436877689896961

[Hoodat]

Russia acknowledges retreat north of Bakhmut, Wagner boss calls it a 'rout'

Olena Harmash and Ivan Lyubysh-Kirdey  |  May 12, 2023  |  4:16 PM EDT

KYIV, May 12 (Reuters) - Moscow acknowledged on Friday that its forces had fallen back north of Ukraine's battlefield city of Bakhmut after a new Ukrainian offensive, in a retreat that the head of Russia's Wagner private army called a rout.

The setback for Russia, which follows similar reports of Ukrainian advances south of the city, suggests a coordinated push by Kyiv to encircle Russian forces in Bakhmut, Moscow's main objective for months during the war's bloodiest fighting.

"In three days of counter-offensive activity, the Ukrainian Armed Forces in the Bakhmut sector have liberated 17.3 sq. km (6.6 sq. miles) of territory," Serhiy Cherevatyi, spokesman for the "east" group of Ukrainian forces, said on the Telegram messaging app.

Both sides are now reporting the biggest Ukrainian gains in six months, although Ukraine has given few details and played down suggestions a huge, long-planned counteroffensive has officially begun.  .  .

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukrainian-tanks-join-attacks-along-60-mile-front-russia-says-2023-05-12/

[PeteS in CA]

Russian air forces have been having a very bad bad day,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-ORTr2kRyw . Two Mi-8 helicopters, an Su-34 strike-fighter, and an Su-35 fighter down near Bryansk, Russia, 50-70 miles from the Ukraine and Belarus borders.

[kevindavis007]

https://twitter.com/kevindavis338/status/1657454531297378305

[bigheadfred]

https://twitter.com/kevindavis338/status/1657454531297378305

 

[DB]

 

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Gee wish I could feel sorry for them.

[sneakypete]

Just out of curiousity,have  any of the serious "talking heads" started discussing what changes MIGHT take place in Russia if they actually lose this war,and the people revolt and throw the Communist leadership up  against a wall and executes them?

I can see a "new Russia" wanting to join NATO and become a part of the west,but  am not so certain that anyone will trust them that far after all these years of Soviet rule and threats.

Still,SOMETHING will have to be done to prevent the Chinese from moving in and taking over. After all,they now have all that cash coming in from manufacturing goods for the American markets to spend,and they DEARLY want the gold,oil,coal,and other  assets  that lay untouched  in Siberia.

Any predictions on what might  happen?

BTW,am I the only one worried about an emerging China using western money and connections to destroy America and other western nations?

[Cyber Liberty]

Just out of curiousity,have  any of the serious "talking heads" started discussing what changes MIGHT take place in Russia if they actually lose this war,and the people revolt and throw the Communist leadership up  against a wall and executes them?

I can see a "new Russia" wanting to join NATO and become a part of the west,but  am not so certain that anyone will trust them that far after all these years of Soviet rule and threats.

Still,SOMETHING will have to be done to prevent the Chinese from moving in and taking over. After all,they now have all that cash coming in from manufacturing goods for the American markets to spend,and they DEARLY want the gold,oil,coal,and other  assets  that lay untouched  in Siberia.

Any predictions on what might  happen?

BTW,am I the only one worried about an emerging China using western money and connections to destroy America and other western nations?

Probably the same as the early 90's.  The oligarchs will quietly resume control and find another Putin to keep the mobs under control.  The people will be thrilled with the comparative safety and take it.

[sneakypete]

Probably the same as the early 90's.  The oligarchs will quietly resume control and find another Putin to keep the mobs under control.  The people will be thrilled with the comparative safety and take it.

@Cyber Liberty

I could easily  be wrong because my memory now sucks,but I SEEM to remember Yeltsin as a genuine reformer that did a LOT to open Russia and free the people from their chains.

Unfortunately,the "Soviet System" took over again with a stealth candidate named Putin,who took over as a reformer,but was and is nothing but a dedicated  Communist who has for all practical purposes taken over the electoral system to the point the old Soviets might as well be in power again.

I am HOPING that Putin has now over-reached to the point where he has killed Communism in Russia,and come the next election that a rabid dog could beat him. I think even the dedicated Soviets have had enough by now to want to get rid of him. After all,he spoiled THEIR lives much more than the lives of the typical neo-Soviet citizen,who never had much to start with. Putin and  his actions  have actually threatened their very survival.

I think this is especially true if they have to tuck their tails beneath their bellies and flee back to Russia from Ukraine in defeat. There just ain't going to be any way to "manage" THAT to make the Neo-Soviets look good.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Just out of curiousity,have  any of the serious "talking heads" started discussing what changes MIGHT take place in Russia if they actually lose this war,and the people revolt and throw the Communist leadership up  against a wall and executes them?

I can see a "new Russia" wanting to join NATO and become a part of the west,but  am not so certain that anyone will trust them that far after all these years of Soviet rule and threats.

Still,SOMETHING will have to be done to prevent the Chinese from moving in and taking over. After all,they now have all that cash coming in from manufacturing goods for the American markets to spend,and they DEARLY want the gold,oil,coal,and other  assets  that lay untouched  in Siberia.

Any predictions on what might  happen?

My prediction is that the above bolded will not happen because if you launch an invasion of the home territory of a nuclear power like Russia, you risk....

BTW,am I the only one worried about an emerging China using western money and connections to destroy America and other western nations?

Nope.  That's one reason I don't think we can let the junior partner in the China/Russia partnership win in Ukraine.  We have to show the rest of the world that we're willing to stand against aggression.  If we don't, we'll lose too much influence, and other nations will be easily bullied by the Chinese and Russians.

The surest way to guarantee Chinese success is for us to retreat into isolationism.  That doesn't mean we should start committing U.S. troops, but surely providing weapons to those who are willing to commit their own troops is doable.

[Smokin Joe]

Russian air forces have been having a very bad bad day,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-ORTr2kRyw . Two Mi-8 helicopters, an Su-34 strike-fighter, and an Su-35 fighter down near Bryansk, Russia, 50-70 miles from the Ukraine and Belarus borders.

MI-8 Minimum of $16 million US each, $40 Million for the SU-34, about 43 million USD for the SU-35 (lowball prices, not including ordnance). The Russians bled over $110 million US in a day.

[Smokin Joe]

Just out of curiousity,have  any of the serious "talking heads" started discussing what changes MIGHT take place in Russia if they actually lose this war,and the people revolt and throw the Communist leadership up  against a wall and executes them?

I can see a "new Russia" wanting to join NATO and become a part of the west,but  am not so certain that anyone will trust them that far after all these years of Soviet rule and threats.

Still,SOMETHING will have to be done to prevent the Chinese from moving in and taking over. After all,they now have all that cash coming in from manufacturing goods for the American markets to spend,and they DEARLY want the gold,oil,coal,and other  assets  that lay untouched  in Siberia.

Any predictions on what might  happen?

BTW,am I the only one worried about an emerging China using western money and connections to destroy America and other western nations?

No, Pete, you are not the only one. That has been a concern of mine for decades, (like Freeper Jeff Head, if you recall him).  People have long said we'd sell people the rope to hang us, and Biden is trying to become salesman of the year.

[Smokin Joe]

@Cyber Liberty

I could easily  be wrong because my memory now sucks,but I SEEM to remember Yeltsin as a genuine reformer that did a LOT to open Russia and free the people from their chains.

Unfortunately,the "Soviet System" took over again with a stealth candidate named Putin,who took over as a reformer,but was and is nothing but a dedicated  Communist who has for all practical purposes taken over the electoral system to the point the old Soviets might as well be in power again.

I am HOPING that Putin has now over-reached to the point where he has killed Communism in Russia,and come the next election that a rabid dog could beat him. I think even the dedicated Soviets have had enough by now to want to get rid of him. After all,he spoiled THEIR lives much more than the lives of the typical neo-Soviet citizen,who never had much to start with. Putin and  his actions  have actually threatened their very survival.

I think this is especially true if they have to tuck their tails beneath their bellies and flee back to Russia from Ukraine in defeat. There just ain't going to be any way to "manage" THAT to make the Neo-Soviets look good.

IF (and that's a big if) the powers that be in Russia can keep it quiet (enough), they will at some point declare 'victory', and bring the remnants of their Army home, after extended security duty in the Eastern parts of the country (and Siberia for the loudest) to face down any ambitious Chinese.

No one will be fooled who really, really, doesn't want to be, but damned few will be talking openly about that, and not for long.

In Russia, defeat will not be mentioned aloud, or only nervously whispered about.

[sneakypete]

No, Pete, you are not the only one. That has been a concern of mine for decades, (like Freeper Jeff Head, if you recall him).  People have long said we'd sell people the rope to hang us, and Biden is trying to become salesman of the year.

@Smokin Joe

Yes,I DO remember Jeff Head. Fondly.

As for the "rope to hang us" quote,I had actually forgotten all about that one,and there has been no greater truth ever posted.

As for Slow Joe,he is nothing more than a empty shell,a figure head to  take the blame. I have no actual idea WHO is really in charge but would bet money it is not someone that has EVER been elected to ANY  public office. His title will start with the letters "CEO".

[sneakypete]

IF (and that's a big if) the powers that be in Russia can keep it quiet (enough), they will at some point declare 'victory', and bring the remnants of their Army home, after extended security duty in the Eastern parts of the country (and Siberia for the loudest) to face down any ambitious Chinese.

No one will be fooled who really, really, doesn't want to be, but damned few will be talking openly about that, and not for long.

In Russia, defeat will not be mentioned aloud, or only nervously whispered about.

@Smokin Joe

I know that is "true historically",but Yeltsin really DID "open the gates" during the short time he was in office,and no matter what a government does,there is no way they can put that "back in the box" as long as the generation that was alive during that time period remains alive. I went to Russia and visited for a couple of weeks each  time with "typical Russian citizens",and I only met ONE "freedom dissident the whole time I was there. Everyone else was excited and happy about the changes.

So happy in fact,that Putin had to pretend to be a reformer to get elected,and actually pretend to have stepped down after his term in office expired. We all know now that him "stepping down" was a sham to fool the public in order to give him and the other dedicated Communists time to recover and present themselves as reformers,but freedom and optimism were in "full bloom" everywhere you went.

I HAVE to think that even if it was suppressed,the typical Russian still remembers that time of expanding freedom and hope for the future,and that all the bodies now coming back home for burial only increases the anti-Soviet leadership's popularity.

If there has EVER been a time for a violent revolution to overthrow an oppressive government,the time is now and the place is Russia. After this "cluster Biden" in Ukraine,even some of the Neo-Soviet officers have to be questioning the Soviet authority.

[Hoodat]

MI-8 Minimum of $16 million US each, $40 Million for the SU-34, about 43 million USD for the SU-35 (lowball prices, not including ordnance). The Russians bled over $110 million US in a day.

They also lost a Mi-28N bringing the total to five.  Three of the five were shot down by Russia's own air defense systems.

[kevindavis007]

https://twitter.com/CyrusShares/status/1657746262500818946

[kevindavis007]

https://twitter.com/officejjsmart/status/1657771861609000961

[Kamaji]

https://twitter.com/officejjsmart/status/1657771861609000961

Does it still look like they're planning an encirclement of the Orcs in Bakhmut?

[kevindavis007]

Does it still look like they're planning an encirclement of the Orcs in Bakhmut?

It looks like they are going to do it with the Orcs.