Senators eye Social Security reforms as some in House GOP consider cuts

[sneakypete]

The continual efforts to impose guilt on folks for following the law is tiresome.  Congress does what congress does and trying hold folks responsible for congressional corruption and deceit is beyond reasonable.We all made a deal to pay the tax and we all allowed the government to piss it away.

@EdinVA

And THERE,it is!

[Smokin Joe]

@DefiantMassRINO

Didn't work that way for me,and besides spending 7 years in SF,I did stuff like run my Harley into the wall of a liquor store out in Denver one Satuday night during a blinding snow storm that had the Colorado HP shuttind down highways.

I ran out of whiskey close to midnight,and all the liquor stores closed at midnight.

That was the deed that caused me to cut the wires from my battery to the electric starter.

Lots of stuff I just sorta vaguely remember,and more stuff I do remember but am NOT going to discuss with anyone at anytime.

Yeah, If I'd have known I was going to last this long, I would have taken better care of myself.
I kinda woke up one day at 30 and thought, "I didn't think I was going to make it this far. Now what?"
When I signed up for Social Security, The retirement age was 65.
People got pensions from the companies they worked for, even the guys who got dirty at work.
There were no IRAs, 401ks or any of that, at least not that we heard about.

[EdinVA]

@EdinVA

And THERE,it is!

@sneakypete   

[Kamaji]

@Kamaji

Yes,and no. You can NOT have a government take a percentage of you income out of your pay every week/year,and then 40+ years down the road tell them "Sorry,Bubba. We have decided to not give you any of your money back."?

Maybe set up accounts as trust funds and then make pay-outs accounding to "pay-ins" if the payee in question was lucky enough to live to 65-70 and have been healthy and lucky enough to have some savings,and then keeping the rest of what that individual is owed by today's system in some sort of trust fund that that it is available to him/her if they develop health issues as they age.

Allow the Gooberment a small fee in percentages of each account they handle.

So you mean the government can't impose an income tax on people?  Unless it gives all of that money back later on?

Really????

[sneakypete]

So you mean the government can't impose an income tax on people?  Unless it gives all of that money back later on?

Really????

@Kamaji

Since WHEN has SS ever been an income tax?

[Cyber Liberty]

Means-testing should also apply.

No. 

[Kamaji]

No. 

Yes.

[Kamaji]

@Kamaji

Since WHEN has SS ever been an income tax?

Since it was enacted.  Since the statute specifically says so.  As I have several times already pointed out on this thread.

[sneakypete]

Since it was enacted.  Since the statute specifically says so.  As I have several times already pointed out on this thread.

@Kamaji

The statute specifically says that SS is a stand-alone income tax?

[Kamaji]

@Kamaji

The statute specifically says that SS is a stand-alone income tax?

Read Internal Revenue Code 3101.  It starts as follows: “(a) Old-age, survivors, and disability insurance
In addition to other taxes, there is hereby imposed on the income of every individual a tax ….”

Is that not clear enough?  What is an income tax other than a tax on income?

[sneakypete]

Read Internal Revenue Code 3101.  It starts as follows: “(a) Old-age, survivors, and disability insurance
In addition to other taxes, there is hereby imposed on the income of every individual a tax ….”

Is that not clear enough?  What is an income tax other than a tax on income?

@Kamaji

Ok,so it is classified as a tax. So what?

[Kamaji]

@Kamaji

Ok,so it is classified as a tax. So what?

No, it is an income tax.  What it is not, is a contractual payment against a guaranteed annuity.  In other words, when you, or anyone else, paid social security tax, you did not get anything in return for it. 

Most particularly, you didn’t “pay for” subsequent social security welfare payments that you became legally entitled to get the minute the social security tax was withheld from your pay.

It astounds me how many people here seem to think this one particular welfare benefit - social security - isn’t just another welfare benefit, but is some sort of right they purchased, as if they’d purchased a retirement annuity from a private company on the installment plan. 

[catfish1957]

It astounds me how many people here seem to think this one particular welfare benefit - social security - isn’t just another welfare benefit, but is some sort of right they purchased, as if they’d purchased a retirement annuity from a private company on the installment plan.

Hence why on the 1040 is not listed as a line item on an annuity.  Outside the legal entanglements, it DOES at the layman level function as annutiy in a quirky, unfair, Ponzi, kind of way.

The biggest difference, and how we see it as an investor is the sad and what should not  be legal is the fact  you are paying taxes (on 75%) on something that has already been taxed.  The closest analogy of double taxation ,  would be Line 24 tax liability being consider a service to the government, and then in turn they apply a VAT parameter to it as goods and services provided by the government.  As crazy as that sounds, that is in essence what is the case. 

3rdly, to the "annuity" leaning crowd, is that SS payments as investment is highly dependent on age and what life expectancy you have. Annuity typically have a sliding scale that you apply at the holder's discretion.   I remember a lot of knock down drawn out fights around at the TOS on discussions on what constitutes fairness or equity in its dispersion.  Essentially a system that favors those who have longevity genetic tendencies.  The system has been so dilluted and abused, I think the last time I saw what the effective rate of return of those in SS is somewhere around 2-3%.   90% of us would have been better off investing that money in just CD's and bonds.  But, when is the last time our government didn't screw us? 

That is why I have always advised everyone who has asked, to conduct your retiring planning with zero SS income in mind.  It's distribution is controlled and tinkered with by a government who does not have your best interests at heart.  If you are able to get the benefit, consider it a windfall.  As In my case, I am applying 100% toward medicare and Fed Estimated Taxes . 

I am approaching $1.9M lifetime payment to Uncle Sugar, and his traveling entitlement show.  Add to the pain....  These criminals have still put us $32T debt?  How this country didn't hold some level of accountibility for this, will be a mystery for eons.

[Bigun]

Hence why on the 1040 is not listed as a line item on an annuity.  Outside the legal entanglements, it DOES at the layman level function as annutiy in a quirky, unfair, Ponzi, kind of way.

Sorry, but no.  Show me where it says that you are assured of receiving a penny?  We were lied to plain and simple.

[sneakypete]

No, it is an income tax.  What it is not, is a contractual payment against a guaranteed annuity.  In other words, when you, or anyone else, paid social security tax, you did not get anything in return for it. 

@Kamaji

BullBush! i PERSONALLY know several people that are drawing SS disability payments who are not 62-65 years old. In a couple of cases,they are (or were) minor children drawing from their parents "accounts".

In FACT,I am drawing SS payments myself.

Granted,there are some people (I am completely clueless as to the number/percentage) who pay into the SS system for years,and then die before they are old enough to draw from their accounts. Big freaking deal. Life is a  gamble,and there ARE fees to be paid in cash,blood,and struggle to make it though life. NONE of us are born with a guarantee that things are going to work out for us as individuals,not even the children of the mega-wealthy.

Things like cancer and other diseases,house fires,auto accidents,etc,etc,etc can strike down any of us at any time.

BUT,,,,,,I tell ya what. Get ONE dead person to come to me and whine about not getting their money back because they died early,and I will give them my monthly checks.

Life is a gamble we all take. Quit yer whining. It's childish.

[EdinVA]

[Kamaji]

Whatever.  It’s welfare, pure and simple, and the so-called social security tax is just an additional income tax imposed on wage-earners, which makes it regressive as well as just another income tax.

If you’re drawing social security, then you’re just on welfare. Deal with it. 

[Bigun]

I retired at age 58 and started taking SS payments the day I turned 62. If I had waited until age 65 it is very unlikely that I would live long enough to recover what I would have drawn between 62 and 65 (I would have had to make it well into the 80s)

I'm in an age group that will, on average, take out more than they put in (on a dollar-for-dollar basis that does not take inflation into account) but folks in age groups younger than mine won't be so lucky.

[sneakypete]

Whatever.  It’s welfare, pure and simple, and the so-called social security tax is just an additional income tax imposed on wage-earners, which makes it regressive as well as just another income tax.

If you’re drawing social security, then you’re just on welfare. Deal with it.

@Kamaji

LOL!

At least I am not a petty and selfish person that would rather see the disabled starve in the streets.

And "Yes,I am ON SS. I paid into it all my life,and am NOT ashamed to admit I am drawing payments from it. I see nothing wrong with this.

BTW,what is YOUR plan for the people too old,too crippled up,or just too worn-out in general to continue working,putting them down like rabid dogs?

Surely YOU have a plan worked out?

Or you so all about what is good for "Me,me,ME,DAMMIT" that you just don't care?

[Kamaji]

@Kamaji

LOL!

At least I am not a petty and selfish person that would rather see the disabled starve in the streets.

And "Yes,I am ON SS. I paid into it all my life,and am NOT ashamed to admit I am drawing payments from it. I see nothing wrong with this.

BTW,what is YOUR plan for the people too old,too crippled up,or just too worn-out in general to continue working,putting them down like rabid dogs?

Surely YOU have a plan worked out?

Or you so all about what is good for "Me,me,ME,DAMMIT" that you just don't care?

Do you think I’m against social security?  Well, news flash, as I posted much earlier in this thread, I am not. 

[Idiot]

Do you think I’m against social security?  Well, news flash, as I posted much earlier in this thread, I am not.

I get a statement every year stating what my SS benefit will be at a certain age.  So will I be depending on SS when I retire (which will likely never happen), probably not, but most people will and how dare the government send out statements to people then decide on a whim to decrease the amount promised.

[LMAO]

Do you think I’m against social security?  Well, news flash, as I posted much earlier in this thread, I am not.

Nor am I

But what’s forgotten by some is that we simply cannot afford it without serious reforms. And you can’t defeat math.

I get that things happen to people in life beyond their control and I’m not advocating we throw them out in the street

Some here don’t understand terms such as “unfunded liabilities.” We can’t just keep printing the money we need

[Idiot]

Nor am I

But what’s forgotten by some is that we simply cannot afford it without serious reforms. And you can’t defeat math.

I get that things happen to people in life beyond their control and I’m not advocating we throw them out in the street

Some here don’t understand terms such as “unfunded liabilities.” We can’t just keep printing the money we need

When I start receiving SS just tax the crap out of the liberal younger generation, as they seem to deserve it, or at least my 2 liberal nieces do....lol.

[LMAO]

@

Or you so all about what is good for "Me,me,ME,DAMMIT" that you just don't care?

You don’t think that more applies to you?  “ I’m getting mine, so I don’t care about what it does to our debt, currency, or the economic opportunity of people who are not even old enough to vote yet.”

After all, it’s all about “me, me ME, DAMMIT!!”

[catfish1957]

Sorry, but no.  Show me where it says that you are assured of receiving a penny?  We were lied to plain and simple.

My comments were aligned toward perceptions not assurances or guarantees.  Sorry.