'Going to Be a Knife Fight': Yellen Warns House GOP Against Blocking Debt Increase, Comer Fires Bac

[mystery-ak]

'Going to Be a Knife Fight': Yellen Warns House GOP Against Blocking Debt Increase, Comer Fires Back
By Mike Miller | 5:15 PM on January 16, 2023

First, this: The House Republicans’ four-day, 15-ballot skirmish that led to Kevin McCarthy winning the gavel and the Republican Caucus announcing new select committees to investigate Biden and Big Tech was one thing; battling Biden and the Democrats over increasing the national debt will be another.

Let the battle be joined.

As McCarthy and House Republicans continue to hold fast to their commitment to cut spending before they’ll even consider raising the federal debt limit, Democrats are gearing up for the fight.

In a Friday letter to McCarthy, Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen warned Congress not to block raising the federal debt limit, as reported by Daily Wire, claiming that increasing the debt limit “does not authorize new spending commitments or cost taxpayers money” (nonsense; of course, it does).

The Treasury secretary wrote, in part (emphasis, mine):

    Public Law 117-73 increased the statutory debt limit to approximately $31,381 trillion on December 16, 2021. As you know, the debt limit is the maximum amount of money that the United States is authorized to borrow to meet its existing legal existing obligations, including Social Security and Medicare benefits, military salaries, interest on the national debt, tax refunds, and other payments.

    I am writing to remind you that on Thursday, January 19, 2023, the outstanding debt is projected to reach the statutory limit. Once the limit is reached, Treasury will need to start taking certain extraordinary measures to prevent the United States from defaulting on its obligations.

What is that? It’s like, “Hey, dad! I just overdrew my checking account again and if you and mom don’t put more money in it by Thursday, the checks I’m going to continue to write will bounce!” And, yes, borrow. Anyone else think this insane and ever-deepening national hole is a hole from which there is no escape?

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https://redstate.com/mike_miller/2023/01/16/going-to-be-a-knife-fight-yellen-warns-house-gop-against-blocking-debt-increase-comer-fires-back-n689488

[Hoodat]

The Treasury secretary wrote, in part (emphasis, mine):

    Public Law 117-73 increased the statutory debt limit to approximately $31,381 trillion on December 16, 2021. As you know, the debt limit is the maximum amount of money that the United States is authorized to borrow to meet its existing legal existing obligations, including Social Security and Medicare benefits, military salaries, interest on the national debt, tax refunds, and other payments.

$31 trillion is enough.

    I am writing to remind you that on Thursday, January 19, 2023, the outstanding debt is projected to reach the statutory limit. Once the limit is reached, Treasury will need to start taking certain extraordinary measures to prevent the United States from defaulting on its obligations.

The ONLY obligation the Treasury has is to pay off its debt.  There will be enough revenue flowing into the Treasury to do that.  If Yellin chooses to default, it is 100% on her and her boss.

[rustynail]

'Going to Be a Knife Fight': then bring guns.

[Smokin Joe]

...authorized to borrow to meet its existing legal existing obligations, including Social Security and Medicare benefits, military salaries, interest on the national debt, tax refunds, and other payments.

Anyone else notice that SS, Medicare (paid for), military salaries (well earned), interest on the Debt (their fault, all of them), tax refunds (our money loaned to the government for up to a year, refunded to us, without interest) are the first things mentioned....

...NOT welfare for illegals (and even citizens) , Medicaid, student loan payoffs, money spent playing catch and release with illegals summoned here by the administration, put up on military bases ($126 million in damages) and swank hotels (we don't have the tab for that, yet), fed, clothed, given medical care some of us working slobs can't afford, subsidies for "Green" energy, and a host of do-nothing jobs (preferable to the host of obstructionist ones), that could be cut (among other things) without kicking all the hot button issues down the stairs.

[Kamaji]

'Going to Be a Knife Fight': then bring guns.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

The GOP majority won't hold on refusing to increase the debt limit unless the demands are ones the most liberal members of the GOP caucus are willing to back.  That's just a fact.

So, that means a lot of negotiation within the caucus to feel out where a reasonable line can be drawn and actually held.  Otherwise, it'll be a threat that just false apart within a few days, and the only thing the GOP will have gained is the humiliation of having held out for a few days, crumbled, and gotten absolutely nothing.

[Smokin Joe]

The GOP majority won't hold on refusing to increase the debt limit unless the demands are ones the most liberal members of the GOP caucus are willing to back.  That's just a fact.

So, that means a lot of negotiation within the caucus to feel out where a reasonable line can be drawn and actually held.  Otherwise, it'll be a threat that just false apart within a few days, and the only thing the GOP will have gained is the humiliation of having held out for a few days, crumbled, and gotten absolutely nothing.

Again...

[Wingnut]

'Going to Be a Knife Fight': then bring guns.

Words from Barry O'bastard.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Again...

Again...what?

Yeah, I know, spineless and all that.  But how about telling me where I'm actually wrong.  Because otherwise, it's like you're just trying to avoid unpleasant truths.

The GOP has been trying these shutdowns as a way to bring pressure on the Democrats.  And we pretty much always lose in the end.  Why?  Because not every member of the GOP caucus is willing to accept public responsibility for shutting down the government and having the geezers not get their checks, etc.., for issues that aren't their priority.  And we've got one of the narrowest majorities in history, so that just makes it that much harder.

So tell me where I'm wrong.

[Kamaji]

Again...what?

Yeah, I know, spineless and all that.  But how about telling me where I'm actually wrong.  Because otherwise, it's like you're just trying to avoid unpleasant truths.

The GOP has been trying these shutdowns as a way to bring pressure on the Democrats.  And we pretty much always lose in the end.  Why?  Because not every member of the GOP caucus is willing to accept public responsibility for shutting down the government and having the geezers not get their checks, etc.., for issues that aren't their priority.  And we've got one of the narrowest majorities in history, so that just makes it that much harder.

So tell me where I'm wrong.

You're not wrong.

[DefiantMassRINO]

One way to curb Federal spending is to starve the Federal Government of revenue.  This hasn't worked because money could be borrowed at historically low rates.

Another, is for rising interest rates to increase the yearly cost to service the National Debt.  As rates rise, more funds need to be diverted from Discretionary and Non-Discretionary spending to make interest payments on outstanding debt.

It is only when the Federal Government can no longer increase taxes and can no longer afford to borrow more money that Federal spending will decrease.

Politicians will avoid or defer making difficult choices until they can't be avoided or deferred.

We are living in an age of Government by Crisis.

[Bigun]

Again...what?

Yeah, I know, spineless and all that.  But how about telling me where I'm actually wrong.  Because otherwise, it's like you're just trying to avoid unpleasant truths.

The GOP has been trying these shutdowns as a way to bring pressure on the Democrats.  And we pretty much always lose in the end.  Why?  Because not every member of the GOP caucus is willing to accept public responsibility for shutting down the government and having the geezers not get their checks, etc.., for issues that aren't their priority.  And we've got one of the narrowest majorities in history, so that just makes it that much harder.

So tell me where I'm wrong.

You're not wrong and are perfectly illustrating why so many are SICK TO DEATH of the GOP.

[Bigun]

One way to curb Federal spending is to starve the Federal Government of revenue.  This hasn't worked because money could be borrowed at historically low rates.

Another, is for rising interest rates to increase the yearly cost to service the National Debt.  As rates rise, more funds need to be diverted from Discretionary and Non-Discretionary spending to make interest payments on outstanding debt.

It is only when the Federal Government can no longer increase taxes and can no longer afford to borrow more money that Federal spending will decrease.

Politicians will avoid or defer making difficult choices until they can't be avoided or deferred.

We are living in an age of Government by Crisis.

1913 destroyed this once great republic!

[Hoodat]

One way to curb Federal spending is to starve the Federal Government of revenue.  This hasn't worked because money could be borrowed at historically low rates.

The reason interest rates have remained low is that the government has relied on the printing press to fund it's excesses instead of competing for borrowable money on the open market.  Cut out the printing press, and you will find interest rates no longer historically low.  This has been the check against government excess for the last two centuries.  But it all ended in 2009.

[Bigun]

On June 5, 1933, the United States went off the gold standard, a monetary system in which currency is backed by gold, when Congress enacted a joint resolution nullifying the right of creditors to demand payment in gold.

The government held the $35 per ounce price until August 15, 1971, when President Richard Nixon announced that the United States would no longer convert dollars to gold at a fixed value, thus completely abandoning the gold standard. In 1974, President Gerald Ford signed legislation that permitted Americans again to own gold bullion.

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/fdr-takes-united-states-off-gold-standard#:~:text=The%20government%20held%20the%20%2435,completely%20abandoning%20the%20gold%20standard.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

You're not wrong and are perfectly illustrating why so many are SICK TO DEATH of the GOP.

It's not really fair to blame "the GOP", though, and certainly not all those members who do hang tough. The problem is the relatively small number of the most "moderate" members who just aren't willing to jump off a cliff for hardcore conservatism.  Most of them are from more moderate districts that wouldn't elect a hardcore conservative. 

That problem isn't caused by the party label.  It's just the reality of who voters are willing to elect.  You could eliminate the GOP tomorrow, and it wouldn't magically turn those voters or reps more conservative.

I'm not saying we can't/shouldn't hold the debt limit hostage.  We just need to pick the right issue that would have support from both those moderate members and the voters who support them.   So we come out of this showing voters not only that we are tough, but  also responsive, and can get done the things they want to see.

And that's how you expand your majority in 2024.

So to me, this is actually the first real test for the Freedom Caucus.  Do they think strategically, and grab whatever limited victory is actually attainable, or do they insist on a hardcore approach, get nothing, and reduce the status of conservatism in the eyes of voters?

Maybe something like "no federal funds for surgical or hormonal gender transitioning of minors.". So you don't cut off counseling, but tax dollars can't go to mutilate kids.  Popular issue, will resonate with most potential GOP voters, and the Senate.might go along.

[Bigun]

It's not really fair to blame "the GOP", though, and certainly not all those members who do hang tough. The problem is the relatively small number of the most "moderate" members who just aren't willing to jump off a cliff for hardcore conservatism.  Most of them are from more moderate districts that wouldn't elect a hardcore conservative. 

That problem isn't caused by the party label.  It's just the reality of who voters are willing to elect.  You could eliminate the GOP tomorrow, and it wouldn't magically turn those voters or reps more conservative.

I'm not saying we can't/shouldn't hold the debt limit hostage.  We just need to pick the right issue that would have support from both those moderate members and the voters who support them.   So we come out of this showing voters not only that we are tough, but  also responsive, and can get done the things they want to see.

And that's how you expand your majority in 2024.

I'm nearly 75 years old and have yet to see the methods you are talking about bear any fruit, so I'm done with that! No more "wait till next year for me! It's time for the GOP to shit or get off the pot as far as I'm concerned.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

I'm nearly 75 years old and have yet to see the methods you are talking about bear any fruit, so I'm done with that! No more "wait till next year for me! It's time for the GOP to shit or get off the pot as far as I'm concerned.

So hold out for something you know you won't get?? How does that help anything?

That's why we keep losing.

[Hoodat]

And that's how you expand your majority in 2024.

I see no value in expanding a majority that chooses to be Democrat-lite.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

So hold out for something you know you won't get?? How does that help anything?

That's why we keep losing.

If your standard for acceptable strategy is limited to those things that will eliminate leftism during your lifetime, then that strategy is doomed to defeat. I figure this is part of a longer-term battle that is going to have to be carried on after we're gone.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

I see no value in expanding a majority that chooses to be Democrat-lite.

It's not a majority that is choosing to be Democrat light. It is a realistic assessment of the fact that a small minority has the power to kill any hardcore conservative deal. Again, it's unfair to blame Republicans as a whole just because everyone who runs under the Republican banner isn't a hardcore conservative

[Bigun]

So hold out for something you know you won't get?? How does that help anything?

That's why we keep losing.

See @Hoodat post right below yours. He's right. Mitch McConnell and his ilk make sure that any Republican majority is worthless.

[Hoodat]

It's not a majority that is choosing to be Democrat light. It is a realistic assessment of the fact that a small minority has the power to kill any hardcore conservative deal.

Nope.  Not buying the Democrat narrative here.  The ball is in our court here.  Spending money we don't have requires action.  If Democrats and Democrat-lite Republicans want to take that action, then they are going to have to give something up.

In the past, each and every time we reach one of these debt ceiling deadlines, the Democrats are able to include some new pet project spending measure along with the debt ceiling increase.  So if equal protection applies, they should expect Republicans to throw out the 87,000 new IRS agents in exchange for their vote to extend the debt ceiling.  I am sick of the double standard.

All the Republican House has to do is to pass the bill, which they can easily do since they are in the majority.  Democrats will accuse them of every evil under the sun.  But the bottom line is that the GOP House passed the bill and the Democrat Senate voted it down.

Are Democrats willing to shut down the government to keep their 87,000 new IRS agents?  Absolutely.  So Republicans need to call them out on it instead of acting like a bunch of bleep afraid the Democrats might say something mean.  Pass the bill.  Let Democrats vote it down.  It is a win-win.

[DefiantMassRINO]

January, 2017- January 2019 ... GOP had Presidency, House, and Senate.  That was their opportunity to show their stuff ... and they blew it.

It's time to primary Republicans who fail to live up to expectations.

[catfish1957]

'Going to Be a Knife Fight': then bring guns.

Except based on history  I expect tiddlywinks in the eye at 3 yards from this feckless bunch.