'Conservativism' is no longer enough; it's time for something new

[roamer_1]

Choose between worshiping Baal or Jesus... Americans have chosen, history has shown us what happens time and time again afterwards. The golden calf is corrupt government, get out of it's way or go down dying. My path does look gloomy if I take my eyes off the true reward.

There ya go... 

In the end, the final truth.

[Sighlass]

There ya go... 

In the end, the final truth.

Being it will be rough times about all we will have is sassafras tea (used in Root Beer)... Sassafras grows wild around here, I have dug a many of it's roots for tea.... Back at ya buddy.

  

[libertybele]

bele writes:
"I believe you may be confusing a Continental Congress with a Convention of States?"

NO.
NEVER.
NOT ONCE.
(have I made myself clear about that?)

An Article V "convention of the States" is "in the Constitution", and would be bound by it.

A new Continental Congress is "extra-Constitutional" and WOULD NOT BE so bound -- and that's EXACTLY why I offer it as the better course of action.

We've reached the point where the matter-at-hand is no longer "saving" the country (or perhaps even the Constitution, which can no longer protect us as it's written).

Rather, the future must lie "in something new" -- on BOTH counts.

@Fishrrman  Ok, once again who is going to lead the "New Continental Congress" and while it is being formed, do you see any resistance from the existing Congress? What happens to the existing Congress??  Ignore it?  Take it over? Other than a complete Revolution I don't see how inserting a New Congress would be feasible. You say "extra Constitutional" ??? I'm not following.

IMHO, the issue IS saving this Republic. Either it dies or it's saved. So if it dies, ANY entity can take over; Marxism, Socialism, Sharia Law, and we also would be opening the door for any country to waltz in here and take us over or for that matter the U.N. I'm sure would be more than happy to dictate what happens to us.

I'm truly trying to understand here what you are proposing and how and why you think it will work.

[roamer_1]

Being it will be rough times about all we will have is sassafras tea (used in Root Beer)... Sassafras grows wild around here, I have dug a many of it's roots for tea.... Back at ya buddy.

  

Yep. I know about sassafras... Every time my kin comes up from Kansas, they bring me some... Along with a couple jugs of home made root beer... That puts anything on the market to shame.

I don't want to go all the way down to pure subsistence. but I can, and I will if I have to. Shucks, I am more than halfway there now. Haven't been to the store for about 2 months now... though I need to pretty soon.

I will again reiterate: The problem is a lack of opposition to liberalism. The only opposition there is is Conservatism. Folks just have to quit settling for less and voting in real conservatives and nothing else. Then there will be opposition... And a profound difference that everyone will be able to see.

Sadly, Republicans have a pavlovian reaction that keeps them from demanding fealty to the values they espouse... And thus a Congress full of gutless RINOs.

Ain't nothing for it if they will not fight...
And that's why I am fixin to go unplugged, and back to what the land will give. Thankfully I am in a position to avoid the coming goosestepping hoards. And I will press the advantage. Some day it will all collapse and my kin will be thankful for what I have prepared. Likely long after I am gone.

[libertybele]

Yep. I know about sassafras... Every time my kin comes up from Kansas, they bring me some... Along with a couple jugs of home made root beer... That puts anything on the market to shame.

I don't want to go all the way down to pure subsistence. but I can, and I will if I have to. Shucks, I am more than halfway there now. Haven't been to the store for about 2 months now... though I need to pretty soon.

I will again reiterate: The problem is a lack of opposition to liberalism. The only opposition there is is Conservatism. Folks just have to quit settling for less and voting in real conservatives and nothing else. Then there will be opposition... And a profound difference that everyone will be able to see.

Sadly, Republicans have a pavlovian reaction that keeps them from demanding fealty to the values they espouse... And thus a Congress full of gutless RINOs.

Ain't nothing for it if they will not fight...
And that's why I am fixin to go unplugged, and back to what the land will give. Thankfully I am in a position to avoid the coming goosestepping hoards. And I will press the advantage. Some day it will all collapse and my kin will be thankful for what I have prepared. Likely long after I am gone.

You are very fortunate @roamer_1 and your family as well. 

[aligncare]

bele writes:
"I believe you may be confusing a Continental Congress with a Convention of States?"

NO.
NEVER.
NOT ONCE.
(have I made myself clear about that?)

An Article V "convention of the States" is "in the Constitution", and would be bound by it.

A new Continental Congress is "extra-Constitutional" and WOULD NOT BE so bound -- and that's EXACTLY why I offer it as the better course of action.

We've reached the point where the matter-at-hand is no longer "saving" the country (or perhaps even the Constitution, which can no longer protect us as it's written).

Rather, the future must lie "in something new" -- on BOTH counts.

Your finest effort clarifying continental congress.  I suppose the advantages are apparent, with like-minded state governments banning together to hammer out a new constitution that would remain true to the original, but updated to deal with a new American reality, communism at home.  I get that.  But I have reservations.

Firstly, getting states signed on to this daunting undertaking; next, the long term effects of creating Balkanization on the North American continent; and finally, finding leadership with the moral and intellectual qualities of our founders, and to adhere scrupulously to the intent of both The Declaration of Independence and the United States Constitution.  No easy task.

 

[sneakypete]

Choose between worshiping Baal or Jesus... Americans have chosen, history has shown us what happens time and time again afterwards. The golden calf is corrupt government, get out of it's way or go down dying. My path does look gloomy if I take my eyes off the true reward.

@Sighlass

And organized religion ISN'T?

If the fundies ever gained control we would end up in a police state that would have scared the Nazi's and their Soviet brothers.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Liberalism/Marxism has no merit, as a matter of fact, it has the opposite, it is a ruinous ideology. However, it very much has popular appeal. This is what we're up against.

[roamer_1]

@Sighlass

And organized religion ISN'T?

If the fundies ever gained control we would end up in a police state that would have scared the Nazi's and their Soviet brothers.

HORSESHIT.

You know what's the largest charitable entity on the planet? Sure as hell ain't no secular organization or government. It's them folks you keep cussin. You could take out the Catholics and organized Protestants and only count the independent Evangelicals, Fundamentals, and Pentecostals, and it would still be more than any other thing.. Not even close.

You keep harping on what the Catlicks did a thousand years ago, and beating your breast for what happened in Salem (where around twenty witches were killed, total), while forgetting conveniently that for half an aeon, every ounce of government on this continent was religious in nature, and run by folks who were religious in nature - And it was a whole helluva lot better than what we have now.

Where them folks are, to this day, those are the places with little crime, white picket fences, and quiet, happy towns full of folks that go about their business every day and still have the wherewithal to help folks just like me and you.

And this nation would be a better place if it were patterned after those folks and their ways, like it used to be.

[sneakypete]

Liberalism/Marxism has no merit, as a matter of fact, it has the opposite, it is a ruinous ideology. However, it very much has popular appeal. This is what we're up against.

@Weird Tolkienish Figure

I think the problem is really related to ignorance because Marxism/Communism is NOT taught as being evil as well as  destructive to personal freedoms political movement,but Capitalism is.

This could be corrected easily by simply teaching children the truth with a couple of simple sentences by telling them that no movie,no newspaper or tv news report,and no television show is allowed access by the public unless it has already been approved by the state censors.

In fact,NOTHING is legal unless it has passed government approval,which of course,means there is NO such thing as individual freedoms in a communist state.

Gee,I wonder how that could happen?

[Right_in_Virginia]

I will again reiterate: The only opposition there is is Conservatism. Folks just have to quit settling for less and voting in real conservatives and nothing else. Then there will be opposition...

[DefiantMassRINO]

Existing "conservative" institutions have been co-opted by Wall Street Kleptocrats, Globalist Kleptocrats, Russian influence, and Chinese Communist Party influence.

Follow the money ... it leads back to a handful of rich S.O.B.'s who create an array of 501(c3) "foundations", LLC's, PAC's, SuperPAC's, and "institutes" to purchase and amplify their influence.

[libertybele]

Your finest effort clarifying continental congress.  I suppose the advantages are apparent, with like-minded state governments banning together to hammer out a new constitution that would remain true to the original, but updated to deal with a new American reality, communism at home.  I get that.  But I have reservations.

Firstly, getting states signed on to this daunting undertaking; next, the long term effects of creating Balkanization on the North American continent; and finally, finding leadership with the moral and intellectual qualities of our founders, and to adhere scrupulously to the intent of both The Declaration of Independence and the United States Constitution. No easy task.

 

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

HORSESHIT.

You know what's the largest charitable entity on the planet? Sure as hell ain't no secular organization or government. It's them folks you keep cussin. You could take out the Catholics and organized Protestants and only count the independent Evangelicals, Fundamentals, and Pentecostals, and it would still be more than any other thing.. Not even close.

You keep harping on what the Catlicks did a thousand years ago, and beating your breast for what happened in Salem (where around twenty witches were killed, total), while forgetting conveniently that for half an aeon, every ounce of government on this continent was religious in nature, and run by folks who were religious in nature - And it was a whole helluva lot better than what we have now.

Where them folks are, to this day, those are the places with little crime, white picket fences, and quiet, happy towns full of folks that go about their business every day and still have the wherewithal to help folks just like me and you.

And this nation would be a better place if it were patterned after those folks and their ways, like it used to be.

Fact is power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. And so too would even Christianity if it had absolutely power. Which is why limited government is best.

[Free Vulcan]

Fact is power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. And so too would even Christianity if it had absolutely power. Which is why limited government is best.

Render to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's.

The Church was never meant to be the State religion, one of the worst mistakes Constantine made was doing just that. Even the Founders understood this and wrote the 1st Amendment the way they did.

Madison stated that a people not moral could not have moral, just, and constitutional govt. With Christianity being dominant, it's place lied with motivating People to moral lives and therefore good leadership in governance, not merging with the Govt to dictate and be over people's lives.

[Free Vulcan]

I have no problem with conservatism, the problem is it's application. Conservatives tend to get static, stodgy, and doctrinaire, arguing on how many angels can fit on the head of a pin.

And as a result conservatives have dropped the ball on many things, like the grooming and sexualizing of our children that's going on in schools for starters. Even with all that is going on it doesn't seem like our leadership outside of DeSantis and Young are moving to counteract it.

And conservatives also suck at tactics and strategy, and rarely seem to be able to think on move ahead, or be articulate when engaging in debate or with the media. And we are abysmal in doing our research and being ready with facts for the liberal attacks.

Even though I agree, I'm tired of platitudes and academics. There needs to be strategy that leads to action. You're not going to win people trying to be the professor.

[jmyrlefuller]

Bigun opines in reply 3 above:
"That's obvious to any objective person."

Then why isn't it obvious to you, that it could soon be time to follow the same pathway that the original Colonists took:
- First, convene a Continental Congress (actually two of them), comprised of delegates from the red states, to decide what to do,
and then
- To DO it.
???

what sparsely occupied, fertile territory do you suggest conquering that will give enough of a buffer zone to prevent the left from crushing us? Our first revolution only succeeded because the Royal Army was headquartered thousands of miles across an ocean in an era when it took months to travel that far.

And how would you sustain it when all the women of child bearing age have sided with the enemy? With no children, it becomes like the Ebenezer Society and dies.

Your fanciful dreams of revolution and a new apartheid state are no more plausible than any other proposal.

There is only one escape from this and it is death.

[roamer_1]

Fact is power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. And so too would even Christianity if it had absolutely power. Which is why limited government is best.

Sure... Though I will point out that limited government is written in Protestant DNA - A very specific principle, not founded there, but practiced there more than anywhere else.

There would not be a United States without the principles brought forth very specifically in Protestantism.

[libertybele]

HORSESHIT.

You know what's the largest charitable entity on the planet? Sure as hell ain't no secular organization or government. It's them folks you keep cussin. You could take out the Catholics and organized Protestants and only count the independent Evangelicals, Fundamentals, and Pentecostals, and it would still be more than any other thing.. Not even close.

You keep harping on what the Catlicks did a thousand years ago, and beating your breast for what happened in Salem (where around twenty witches were killed, total), while forgetting conveniently that for half an aeon, every ounce of government on this continent was religious in nature, and run by folks who were religious in nature - And it was a whole helluva lot better than what we have now.

Where them folks are, to this day, those are the places with little crime, white picket fences, and quiet, happy towns full of folks that go about their business every day and still have the wherewithal to help folks just like me and you.

And this nation would be a better place if it were patterned after those folks and their ways, like it used to be.

Amen!! Allowing ILLEGALS into this country who refuse to assimilate to our values IS a huge problem.

This country was founded upon Christian values and principles. We have a prime example of those in Congress side stepping those values; Pelosi approving of abortion and our SCOTUS voting for same sex marriages, etc.  That IS the problem in a nutshell; our leaders sidestepping those values and principles for votes.  Most importantly, the SCOTUS is not there to re-write laws but to interpret law as it relates to the Constitution.

[roamer_1]

Render to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's.

Right... But in that, know that it is ALL God's. That's the part of that teaching that everyone hilariously overlooks... 
It is HE that separated church from state, right in Torah... Not that that is an excuse to promote a secular state. Because in the end it is all about good and evil, and where a secular state will go is predictable and historically proven.

[roamer_1]

And as a result conservatives have dropped the ball on many things, like the grooming and sexualizing of our children that's going on in schools for starters.

You seem to be concatenating Conservatives with Republicans... There ain't a Conservative I know that would not find that to be a hill to die upon. The mechanism is what is at fault, and that mechanism is the Republican Party.

THEY dropped the ball and decided not to fight homo marriage, sexualizing school, and grooming. Christian Conservatives have been howling the warning all the way along.

[DefiantMassRINO]

Is Government God?

Is Goverment secular?

Is Government a religion?

Is Government an instrument of Religion?

Both Religion and Government are institutions created by Man.

Both Religion and Government compete for power over men.

In New England, Puritan Religion and Government did not work as power corrupted both institutions.

Faith is a gift God bestows upon us.

The core of Christian faiths are the Gospels of Mathew, Luke, Mark, and John.

Using the Lord's name in vain for the pusuit of accumulating more political power conflicts with the Third Commandment God gave to Moses.

Jesus was pretty clear on the relationship of faith and government.

Then Jesus said to them, “Give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s.” And they were amazed at him. (Mark 12:17)

[Free Vulcan]

Right... But in that, know that it is ALL God's. That's the part of that teaching that everyone hilariously overlooks... 
It is HE that separated church from state, right in Torah... Not that that is an excuse to promote a secular state. Because in the end it is all about good and evil, and where a secular state will go is predictable and historically proven.

Yes, but I think there it was referring more to the two competing systems, the present material ruling system of this Earth, and the non-material beyond this dimension.

The Founders flipped things on it's head by realizing the need for a secular State - but one that's run by a moral people with a religious foundation, instead of morality flowing from the State. That is really the only way it will work, is a good People picking good Leadership, which we have been very spotty at for at least the last 100 years.

[roamer_1]

Yes, but I think there it was referring more to the two competing systems, the present material ruling system of this Earth, and the non-material beyond this dimension.

non-material/material is courting gnostics, but then I am picking nits. Just to mess with your head... What if that which you call non-material is actually material, and this which we know is a subset of that material thing... and is really the immaterial. There is evidence that we live in something close to the matrix... a complicated program that mimics reality...

Still, the truth, one way or the other,  is that Yah owns the very breath in Caesar's mouth.

The Founders flipped things on it's head by realizing the need for a secular State - but one that's run by a moral people with a religious foundation, instead of morality flowing from the State. That is really the only way it will work, is a good People picking good Leadership, which we have been very spotty at for at least the last 100 years.

That's right... Our Constitution was written only for a good and moral people...
There's the problem right there. The jackals have overrun the lions.

But that condition has been intentionally planned - The thing we are fighting is not the jackals, but those who empower them. Without that power they will flee to the red light district on the other side of the tracks.

The 'who' that empowers them is the key. And far too often those whom we elect are in collusion with them.

[libertybele]

Is Government God?

Is Goverment secular?

Is Government a religion?

Is Government an instrument of Religion?

Both Religion and Government are institutions created by Man.

Both Religion and Government compete for power over men.

In New England, Puritan Religion and Government did not work as power corrupted both institutions.

Faith is a gift God bestows upon us.

The core of Christian faiths are the Gospels of Mathew, Luke, Mark, and John.

Using the Lord's name in vain for the pusuit of accumulating more political power conflicts with the Third Commandment God gave to Moses.

Jesus was pretty clear on the relationship of faith and government.

Then Jesus said to them, “Give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s.” And they were amazed at him. (Mark 12:17)

God is not referenced or stated in the U.S. Constitution, the only document that I know of that references God is in the Declaration of Independence which states "truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights ....

As an example; same sex marriage is not directly referenced in the Constitution, yet our SCOTUS ruled on an issue that goes against Christianity; and yet the Constitution specifically states that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion". If I recall they more or less rewrote law by their ruling.

We could ping-pong this back and forth but the decision has already been made for us that as Christians we must accept same sex marriage. Acceptance is one thing, approval and compromising one's values is quite another and one that I refuse to do.

That is where the revolting and rebelling is coming to a head; SCOTUS writing law.

We've had a similar conversation in this forum before and perhaps I'm not understanding the point you were trying to convey?