Killing people: best way to deal with genetic disorders?

[mystery-ak]

Killing people: best way to deal with genetic disorders?
David Strom 8:01 AM on November 22, 2022

Iceland is very proud of having “cured” the problem of Down’s syndrome.

In recent years almost no children have been born with the genetic disorder. Norway, too, is almost free of Downs’ Syndrome children. In fact, almost all babies born today in most European countries can be expected to not suffer from Down’s Syndrome, and we are supposed to applaud this “accomplishment.”

    Using an ultrasound, blood test and the mother’s age, the test, called the Combination Test, determines whether the fetus will have a chromosome abnormality,  the most common of which results in Down syndrome. Children born with this genetic disorder have distinctive facial issues and a range of developmental issues. Many people born with Down syndrome can live full, healthy lives, with an average lifespan of around 60 years.

    Other countries aren’t lagging too far behind in Down syndrome termination rates. According to the most recent data available, the United States has an estimated termination rate for Down syndrome of 67 percent (1995-2011); in France it’s 77 percent (2015); and Denmark, 98 percent (2015). The law in Iceland permits abortion after 16 weeks if the fetus has a deformity — and Down syndrome is included in this category.

It turns out that there is a surefire cure for Down’s Syndrome: death. If somebody is dead then genetic abnormalities are no longer an issue. And this is the desired result for a vast majority of people who are both pro-choice and…what, exactly? Pro…death for inconvenient people?

more
https://hotair.com/david-strom/2022/11/22/killing-people-best-way-to-deal-with-genetic-disorders-n512775

[Kamaji]

WADR, this should be an intensely personal decision for the parents involved, to be made in consultation with their doctor, their ministers, their other counselors (if they have them and trust them on delicate personal matters), and - ultimately - their personal consciences, and not bandied about for political purposes by either side.

It is not the same thing as an elective abortion-as-convenience or abortion-as-birth-control.

[mountaineer]

T4 Program, also called T4 Euthanasia Program, Nazi German effort—framed as a euthanasia program—to kill incurably ill, physically or mentally disabled, emotionally distraught, and elderly people. Adolf Hitler initiated the program in 1939, and, while it was officially discontinued in 1941, killings continued covertly until the military defeat of Nazi Germany in 1945.

In October 1939 Hitler empowered his personal physician and the chief of the Chancellery of the Führer to kill people considered unsuited to live. He backdated his order to September 1, 1939, the day World War II began, to give it the appearance of a wartime measure. In this directive, Dr. Karl Brandt and Chancellery chief Philipp Bouhler were “charged with responsibility for expanding the authority of physicians…so that patients considered incurable, according to the best available human judgment of their state of health, can be granted a mercy killing.” ...

Britannica

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

[Free Vulcan]

The problem is that it goes pretty quick down the slippery slope.

Then the group with half a billion guns are going to have a say.

[Kamaji]

Britannica

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

In Canada, they call it by the euphemism MAID - Medical Assistance In Dying - but, since it is a government-run program, and takes into account costs, it is philosophically and ideologically indistinguishable from the original Nazi T4 program.

[Kamaji]

The problem is that it goes pretty quick down the slippery slope.

Then the group with half a billion guns are going to have a say.

It can, if it's run like the Canadian MAID program, which is essentially government-mandated euthanasia.

[jmyrlefuller]

WADR, this should be an intensely personal decision for the parents involved, to be made in consultation with their doctor, their ministers, their other counselors (if they have them and trust them on delicate personal matters), and - ultimately - their personal consciences, and not bandied about for political purposes by either side.

It is not the same thing as an elective abortion-as-convenience or abortion-as-birth-control.

You're right. It's not the same as elective abortion as convenience.

It's eugenics.

If we're going to head down the road of eugenics, that opens up a huge Pandora's box on who gets to reproduce in this country and who gets to consent. We, as a nation, are nowhere near ready for that conversation.

[Fishrrman]

You'll know they want to get rid of you when one of these shows up on your doorstep:


(see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarco_pod)

[mountaineer]

You're right. It's not the same as elective abortion as convenience.

It's eugenics.

Margaret Sanger-approved.

[libertybele]

This is really upsetting, I know a couple of people with Down's Syndrome; one lives in a group home and one lives with her siblings. Both of them are lovable and have a part time job that gives them a sense of purpose and enables them to buy a few things.  Most of all it gives them a sense of accomplishment.  They aren't fully independent, but they still are a life; someones' child, brother and sister. One of them has been dating someone with Down's for a couple of years; both seem happy.

There is a cashier at our local supermarket that has Down's Syndrome, she isn't quite as quick as the other cashiers, but she is fully capable of doing her job and tries to converse with others. She rides her bicycle to work so she also has her own transportation. It sure seems she is living her life as fully as she can and I applaud her.



 

[libertybele]

You're right. It's not the same as elective abortion as convenience.

It's eugenics.

If we're going to head down the road of eugenics, that opens up a huge Pandora's box on who gets to reproduce in this country and who gets to consent. We, as a nation, are nowhere near ready for that conversation.

We need to have a serious conversation about late term abortions as well.

[Kamaji]

You're right. It's not the same as elective abortion as convenience.

It's eugenics.

If we're going to head down the road of eugenics, that opens up a huge Pandora's box on who gets to reproduce in this country and who gets to consent. We, as a nation, are nowhere near ready for that conversation.

Not if it is given space as a private decision for the parents to make themselves, and not turned into some sort of government program.

You can throw whatever derisive, ugly labels you want on it, but if a couple chooses to not carry to term a child who will have substantial genetic abnormalities, that is their decision alone, and should be respected as such.

At that point, it is a matter between the couple and God, for them to sort out as they and their consciences see best.  It is not a fit matter for some priggish busybody to stick his nose into and impose his own views on what that couple should, or should not, be doing.

And if its eugenics you want, you need look no further than Mother Nature herself.  Downs syndrome children, for example, only survive because their families choose to keep them alive; left to their own devices the way any other non-disabled individual is, they would die of starvation rather quickly, and almost certainly before they could reproduce.

[libertybele]

Not if it is given space as a private decision for the parents to make themselves, and not turned into some sort of government program.

You can throw whatever derisive, ugly labels you want on it, but if a couple chooses to not carry to term a child who will have substantial genetic abnormalities, that is their decision alone, and should be respected as such.

At that point, it is a matter between the couple and God, for them to sort out as they and their consciences see best.  It is not a fit matter for some priggish busybody to stick his nose into and impose his own views on what that couple should, or should not, be doing.

And if its eugenics you want, you need look no further than Mother Nature herself.  Downs syndrome children, for example, only survive because their families choose to keep them alive; left to their own devices the way any other non-disabled individual is, they would die of starvation rather quickly, and almost certainly before they could reproduce.

[sneakypete]

Many people born with Down syndrome can live full, healthy lives, ....

David Strom,the author of this brain fart,doesn't have enough common sense to pour piss out of a boot if he genuinely believes that BullBush.

If you have a low double-digit IQ,it is freaking IMPOSSIBLE to live a "full,healthy life". You are a freaking retard,and you will NEVER get any better.

You will never be able to live an independent life where you can provide and care for yourself,and you SHOULD be sterilized before becoming old enough to reproduce.

You are a drag on your family,and on society in general.

And not a single bit of it is YOUR fault  or the fault of your parents. Yet,you,they,and the rest of society will be penalized for the entire length of your life because  you will never be able to provide for yourself or live anything close to what we laughingly call a "normal life".

Don't blame ME for being forced to state the obvious. Blame whatever deity you worship,and if you  don't worship any,blame "Nature",herself.

This is one of those situations where no one "wins",and the BEST thing to do for everyone involved is for mothers to be tested as early in the pregnancy as possible,and to have the abortion as early as possible.

NO ONE wins.

[Free Vulcan]

My dad knew a guy named Bob. Had Downs, difficulty talking. He was also an engineering genius.

[sneakypete]

My dad knew a guy named Bob. Had Downs, difficulty talking. He was also an engineering genius.

@Free Vulcan

Idiot Savant? Rare,but  it does happen.

I sure hope someone that knows what they are doing is researching Idiot Savants to see what makes them tick.