The Russians Blew Up Their Own Pipeline

[roamer_1]

Believe the press about what? The state of Russia and their losses in their war against Ukraine?

I don't believe any of it, either way.

I don't believe that Putin suddenly turned into this power mad tyrant (as he is now painted). He's a seasoned politician, and had to be able to count the cost.

I don't believe Ukraine is the plucky democracy = It is a den of thieves, in it up to their eyebrows with the likes of Biden and Romney.

I don't know what's going on over there - but what is coming through our sainted press is bullcrap, end to end.

[sneakypete]

They had already turned off most of the gas flow for "maintenance" to punish Europe.

Another thing. If someone blew up their pipeline, not them, why aren't they having a fit about it?

@DB

It is NOT in the Soviet nature to admit they do not have total control. After all,doing so would admit they have failed.

Soviet Doctrine dictates that "The State is ALWAYS right and will never fail."

Putin and his dedicated communist associates admitting that the state is NOT all-powerful would be the equivalent of The Pope admitting that Jesus was not the son of God.

[catfish1957]

Serves multiple purposes:

- leverage a false flag operation for domestic or foreign propaganda
- make the Europeans' suffering worse for this Winter
- decrease global supply / increase global price

?????

How do you profit in a supply/demand fiancial scenario if you don't have the supply? 

If this was the case, Putin wouldn't have blown up his own pipeline.  Geeeeez!!!!

[DefiantMassRINO]

Putin wasn't collecting 100% of the money for the gas because of sanctions.

Scarcity creates value.

Russian gas can still make its way to the European market via other pipelines, but now at a higher cost, through intermediaries, like Belarus and Hungary, against whom there are no monetary sanctions.  Russia sells gas to Belarus.  Belarus sells gas to Hungary.  Hungary sells gas to whomever.

Putin can now get the cash he needs bey laundering the natural gas money via non-sanctioned intermediaries.

What's the point of selling natural gas if you cannot collect and use the money?  Plus, Putin has the joy of watching Western Europe suffer.  It's a power trip.

[catfish1957]

I worked in the petrochemical industry 30 years.  Pipelines,and metering stations are HUGE capital outlays and infrastuctural costs.  You just don't kill that part of the asset base....  at least intentionally

Secondly...   You don't thetorically detroy 20% functionality of pipeline of your capacity for any reason due to flexibility and market condtions.  The Russians aren't that stupid.

The Russians...  at least their government did not destroy this pipeline

[roamer_1]

I worked in the petrochemical industry 30 years.  Pipelines,and metering stations are HUGE capital outlays and infrastuctural costs.  You just don't kill that part of the asset base....  at least intentionally

Secondly...   You don't thetorically detroy 20% functionality of pipeline of your capacity for any reason due to flexibility and market condtions.  The Russians aren't that stupid.

The Russians...  at least their government did not destroy this pipeline

That's very likely right.

[DefiantMassRINO]

That's if the driving motivator is money.

Putin's driving motivator is power.  Money is just another means to power.

[sneakypete]

?????

How do you profit in a supply/demand fiancial scenario if you don't have the supply? 

If this was the case, Putin wouldn't have blown up his own pipeline.  Geeeeez!!!!

@catfish1957

Well,the Russians will STILL have all that oil to pum in the future,and since when has the Soviet leadership given a squat about the suffering of the poor people? Isn't it the DUTY of poor people to suffer?

No matter what happens,THEY will still have their mansions heated,and plenty of diesel or gasoline for their Mercedes limo's that drive them back and forth to town to work.

[sneakypete]

I worked in the petrochemical industry 30 years.  Pipelines,and metering stations are HUGE capital outlays and infrastuctural costs.  You just don't kill that part of the asset base....  at least intentionally

Secondly...   You don't thetorically detroy 20% functionality of pipeline of your capacity for any reason due to flexibility and market condtions.  The Russians aren't that stupid.

The Russians...  at least their government did not destroy this pipeline

@catfish1957

You  worked in a society where productions and profits matter.

Under the Soviet system,all that matters are results because the Oligarchs will NEVER suffer. After all,THEY own and control the Russian treasury,and they NEVER get fired.

Or elected in an actual election.

[art.prout]

I don't believe any of it, either way.

I don't believe that Putin suddenly turned into this power mad tyrant (as he is now painted). He's a seasoned politician, and had to be able to count the cost.

I don't believe Ukraine is the plucky democracy = It is a den of thieves, in it up to their eyebrows with the likes of Biden and Romney.

I don't know what's going on over there - but what is coming through our sainted press is bullcrap, end to end.

Exactly right, all of it.

 

[Bigun]

Exactly right, all of it.

 

Yep! Every word!

[DB]

I don't believe any of it, either way.

I don't believe that Putin suddenly turned into this power mad tyrant (as he is now painted). He's a seasoned politician, and had to be able to count the cost.

I don't believe Ukraine is the plucky democracy = It is a den of thieves, in it up to their eyebrows with the likes of Biden and Romney.

I don't know what's going on over there - but what is coming through our sainted press is bullcrap, end to end.

Putin has a long history of being a mob boss. All his opposition dies. He's fantastically wealthy and has never run a business - what is more corrupt than that? He laid waste to Chechnya among others. He's repeatedly ventured westward trying to restore the "glory" of empire past. He severely miscalculated trying to take Ukraine. No one forced him to invade. Putin has been the aggressor throughout. Those are the facts that matter - regardless of what the media says.

[roamer_1]

Putin has a long history of being a mob boss. All his opposition dies. He's fantastically wealthy and has never run a business - what is more corrupt than that? He laid waste to Chechnya among others. He's repeatedly ventured westward trying to restore the "glory" of empire past. He severely miscalculated trying to take Ukraine. No one forced him to invade. Putin has been the aggressor throughout. Those are the facts that matter - regardless of what the media says.

He'd have to be an idiot - I mean stick-your-d*ck-in-a-wood-chipper idiot.

Pretty much can't be both evil mastermind and effin idiot at the same time. 

[DefiantMassRINO]

The areas where the alleged explosions took place was in proximity to Russian Kaliningrad Oblast on the Baltic Sea.

Denying Western Europe natural gas via Norstream pipelines reduces the ROI of any regime change scheme.

Weakening his enemies strengthens Putin's power relative to Western Europe.

Putin needs Germany and France to put pressure on NATO to do whatever is necessary to turn the supply of Russian natural gas back on.

A cold, harsh Western European Winter is Putin's 2nd best ally, next to time.

The Russians can always steal money or counterfeit foreign currency.

[roamer_1]

The areas where the alleged explosions took place was in proximity to Russian Kaliningrad Oblast on the Baltic Sea.

Denying Western Europe natural gas via Norstream pipelines reduces the ROI of any regime change scheme.

Weakening his enemies strengthens Putin's power relative to Western Europe.

Putin needs Germany and France to put pressure on NATO to do whatever is necessary to turn the supply of Russian natural gas back on.

A cold, harsh Western European Winter is Putin's 2nd best ally, next to time.

The Russians can always steal money or counterfeit foreign currency.

That would sound right if he had just shut off the valves.

[DefiantMassRINO]

It could also be a Sicilian message to NATO that their underwater energy and telecommunications assets are vulnerable to Russian attack.

The explosions were just outside NATO waters, and the Russians have extensively mapped the West's underwater infrastructure.

The fear with proposed Russian war games off Ireland was that it was a cover for Russian malfeasence upon underwater communications cables in that area.

Putin is more likely to attack NATO assymetrically than head on.

[DB]

That would sound right if he had just shut off the valves.

Close the valve and only Russia is to blame for Europe's coming winter. This is a great excuse to get the same result without taking the blame. Even better, point fingers at the US for Europe's coming misery.

[DB]

He'd have to be an idiot - I mean stick-your-d*ck-in-a-wood-chipper idiot.

Pretty much can't be both evil mastermind and effin idiot at the same time. 

If it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck...

I think it is most likely that Putin believed his own PR on the Russian military's capabilities against modern weapons. Invading with tanks was monumentally stupid. He thought it would be over in a few days.

It wasn't.

So yes, it was extremely stupid. Sometimes it takes really smart people to do some extremely dumb things that only they can theorize why it was a good idea.

[Fishrrman]

sneakypete wrote:
"Under the Soviet system,all that matters are results because the Oligarchs will NEVER suffer. After all,THEY own and control the Russian treasury,and they NEVER get fired."

You're still fightin' the Cold War and the Vietnam war, Pete.

Soviet communism ended back around Christmas Day, 1991, as I recall.

That doesn't mean that a [good-sized] number of "old-line communists" remain, in and out of government.

But outfits such as Gazprom are "in it for the money ... profit"... even if the government still gets its share, too.

These days, the powers-that-be are more like those of the czar era, than of the politburo.

[sneakypete]

He'd have to be an idiot - I mean stick-your-d*ck-in-a-wood-chipper idiot.

Pretty much can't be both evil mastermind and effin idiot at the same time. 

@roamer_1

Why?

Ever heard of a guy named Stalin?

How about a guy named "Hitler"?

[sneakypete]

sneakypete wrote:
"Under the Soviet system,all that matters are results because the Oligarchs will NEVER suffer. After all,THEY own and control the Russian treasury,and they NEVER get fired."

You're still fightin' the Cold War and the Vietnam war, Pete.

Soviet communism ended back around Christmas Day, 1991, as I recall.

That doesn't mean that a [good-sized] number of "old-line communists" remain, in and out of government.

But outfits such as Gazprom are "in it for the money ... profit"... even if the government still gets its share, too.

These days, the powers-that-be are more like those of the czar era, than of the politburo.

@Fishrrman

Yeah,it was in ALL the papers and on all the tb stations,

Surely your newspaper and tv station wouldn't lie to you,would they?

You are right to not  believe your lying eyes.

[Smokin Joe]

sneakypete wrote:
"Under the Soviet system,all that matters are results because the Oligarchs will NEVER suffer. After all,THEY own and control the Russian treasury,and they NEVER get fired."

You're still fightin' the Cold War and the Vietnam war, Pete.

Soviet communism ended back around Christmas Day, 1991, as I recall.

That doesn't mean that a [good-sized] number of "old-line communists" remain, in and out of government.

But outfits such as Gazprom are "in it for the money ... profit"... even if the government still gets its share, too.

These days, the powers-that-be are more like those of the czar era, than of the politburo.

Communism has never been so healthy as it has since it was declared "dead".

Because it was "dead" its proponents could repackage any and all aspects of it and sell them to naive students in the west--which they have been doing for two generations now. A little media infiltration and load up the education establishment, the whole philosophy can be sold under a new name and "Communism" is no longer the rally point for resistance against it--because it is "dead".
Look up from the monitor (media).
Just because someone ripped the leads off, it doesn't mean the patient flatlined.

[roamer_1]

Why?

@sneakypete
Start with moving heavy machinery during spring breakup. Utterly asinine.
You don't do that unless you're desperate, and as a military guy, he knows it.

But he does it anyway? Really? And his whole plan is committed to getting those troops and heavy machinery in place... Totally rookie dumass mistake.

Ask why about that.

[roamer_1]

If it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck...

It don't. that's the problem. I cannot suspend disbelief. Hence the media's narrative does not work, at least on me.

[Bigun]

Communism has never been so healthy as it has since it was declared "dead".

Because it was "dead" its proponents could repackage any and all aspects of it and sell them to naive students in the west--which they have been doing for two generations now. A little media infiltration and load up the education establishment, the whole philosophy can be sold under a new name and "Communism" is no longer the rally point for resistance against it--because it is "dead".
Look up from the monitor (media).
Just because someone ripped the leads off, it doesn't mean the patient flatlined.

  All true!