Author Topic: Ukraine 3  (Read 152234 times)

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Offline bilo

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1375 on: December 23, 2022, 06:37:48 pm »
The cost would be far cheaper if we concentrated on providing weapons to Ukraine instead of overfunding USAID, the State Dept, NATO, HHS, DoD, etc.

Amen!
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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1376 on: December 23, 2022, 07:54:09 pm »
How about loans? Bonds?

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1377 on: December 23, 2022, 09:15:36 pm »
How about loans? Bonds?

Gas, oil, grain, and sunflower oil futures?  These would all work.  But there's no way for Biden and his cronies to graft cash off of weapons deliveries for commodity futures.
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1378 on: December 25, 2022, 02:58:02 am »
Shchedryk (Щедрик)



If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1379 on: December 25, 2022, 03:07:30 am »
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists.

Offline Timber Rattler

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1380 on: December 25, 2022, 04:10:38 pm »
Zelensky rallies Ukrainians with defiant Christmas message after deadly Russian barrage in Kherson

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/25/europe/ukraine-zelensky-christmas-message-intl/index.html

President Volodymyr Zelensky called on Ukrainians to have “patience and faith” in a defiant Christmas address after a deadly wave of Russian strikes pounded the southern city of Kherson.

Ten months into Russia’s war on Ukraine, Zelensky spoke of endurance and pushing through to the end, while acknowledging that “freedom comes at a high price.”

He urged the nation to stand firm in the face of a grim winter of energy blackouts, the absence of loved ones and the ever-present threat of Russian attacks.

Zelensky’s message came after Ukrainian officials said Russia had launched deadly rocket strikes into downtown Kherson on Christmas Eve, killing at least 10 people and injuring dozens. Zelensky described those attacks as “killing for the sake of intimidation and pleasure.”

Excerpt.
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Offline Timber Rattler

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1381 on: December 25, 2022, 04:23:58 pm »
Will Ukraine’s Threatened Ban on Russia-Linked Churches Violate Religious Freedom?

https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2022/december/lavra-ukraine-orthodox-church-russia-religious-freedom-uoc.html

Ukraine, a bastion of religious freedom, is moving to possibly outlaw a church.

President Volodymyr Zelensky began the month by endorsing a draft law to “make it impossible” for the Ukrainian Orthodox Church (UOC), canonically linked to Moscow, to operate. His December 1 decree followed raids on several monasteries under the UOC’s jurisdiction.

Security services searched over 350 buildings and investigated 850 people.

“We will ensure complete independence for our state. In particular, spiritual independence,” stated Zelensky. “We will never allow anyone to build an empire inside the Ukrainian soul.”

The reaction from Russia was swift—but also illustrated the issue.

“The current Ukrainian authorities have openly become enemies of Christ and the Orthodox faith,” stated Dmitry Medvedev, deputy chairman of the Russian Security Council.

(snip)

The raids—centered on the 11th-century Kyiv-Pechersk Lavra complex, known as the Monastery of the Caves—uncovered large amounts of cash, “dubious” Russian citizens, and leaflets calling on people to join the Russian army, according to Ukrainian authorities. Other material cited as evidence included prayer texts of ROC patriarch Kirill and a video of hymn singing that celebrated Russia’s “awakening.”

Kirill has publicly blessed Russia’s invasion of its neighboring nation, even promising forgiveness of sin to soldiers who die in the war. Security services also described finding UOC priests in possession of literature denying Ukraine’s right to exist and contacting Russian intelligence agents.

Excerpt.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1382 on: December 25, 2022, 05:00:57 pm »
For those of you who don't know this "Priest" is a KGB career field.

When Yeltsin was running for President and promising to ease communist rule,the Patriarch of the Russian Orthodox Church not only supported Communist rule,but he showed up personally to march at the head of a large delegation of Russian priests and nuns in support of Communist rule.

I was actually in Moscow that day standing close to the flatbed truck where the speeches were made,and watched them form up to march in the parade down Red Square.

I had several Russian businessmen staying at the same hotel I was staying in, translating for me. I also had CNN on the tv in the lobby,but since they were doing nothing but parrotting the Soviet line,that meant nothing.
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Offline libertybele

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1383 on: December 26, 2022, 01:32:40 am »
Putin claims Russia is ready to negotiate; Ukraine accuses Kremlin of trying to avoid responsibility

Russian President Vladimir Putin claimed in an interview with state television on Sunday that Moscow wants to negotiate, even as Ukrainian cities were hit with a barrage of missiles over the Christmas weekend.

"We are ready to negotiate with everyone involved about acceptable solutions, but that is up to them - we are not the ones refusing to negotiate, they are," Putin said.

The claim was rebuffed by Mykhailo Podolyak, an adviser to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, who said that "Putin needs to come back to reality."

"Russia single-handedly attacked Ukraine and is killing citizens. There are no other 'countries, motives, geopolitics,'" Podolyak tweeted. "Russia doesn’t want negotiations, but tries to avoid responsibility."

https://www.foxnews.com/world/putin-claims-russia-ready-negotiate-ukraine-accuses-kremlin-trying-avoid-responsibility
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Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Timber Rattler

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1384 on: December 26, 2022, 03:14:04 am »
Putin only wants to negotiate terms that are favorable to Russia, i.e. keeping what he's not lost thus far, and ejecting NATO from the Baltics and Eastern Europe.  Not a good faith offer at all.  The guy's a liar.
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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1385 on: December 26, 2022, 06:54:55 am »

Putin only wants to negotiate terms that are favorable to Russia, i.e. keeping what he's not lost thus far, and ejecting NATO from the Baltics and Eastern Europe.  Not a good faith offer at all.  The guy's a liar.
Rumors just hearsay is that Putin/Russia's current position is, "At least let us keep Crimea."

Russia is so beaten down on so many fronts, militarily, economically, globally, as well as with energy production and sale, population loss, and a dozen more, they are trying to come up with some way to stop the war but with some gain. After all of this, they simply cannot lose emptyhanded. That really would cause a civil revolution.
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1386 on: December 26, 2022, 08:49:39 am »
Putin claims Russia is ready to negotiate; Ukraine accuses Kremlin of trying to avoid responsibility

Russian President Vladimir Putin claimed in an interview with state television on Sunday that Moscow wants to negotiate, even as Ukrainian cities were hit with a barrage of missiles over the Christmas weekend.

"We are ready to negotiate with everyone involved about acceptable solutions, but that is up to them - we are not the ones refusing to negotiate, they are," Putin said.

The claim was rebuffed by Mykhailo Podolyak, an adviser to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, who said that "Putin needs to come back to reality."


"Russia single-handedly attacked Ukraine and is killing citizens. There are no other 'countries, motives, geopolitics,'" Podolyak tweeted. "Russia doesn’t want negotiations, but tries to avoid responsibility."

https://www.foxnews.com/world/putin-claims-russia-ready-negotiate-ukraine-accuses-kremlin-trying-avoid-responsibility

@libertybele

And THERE it is.

Putin is NOT the "leader of a free nation." He is a neo-Stalinist dictator whose career was in the Soviet secret police,and he used the Secret Police files on other Politburo members to be elected President/Dictator for life.

And before any of you claim this can't be done in a nation with elections,let me remind you of J for Janet,Edgar Hoover and his lifetime position as the Director of the US FBI. He had the dirt on EVERYBODY in DC,and THAT is how he stayed in power until his death.

If "Sucks like a Hoover" can remain in power in an alleged democracy for life because of his access to the private conduct of elected officials in what passes for a Democracy, just imagine the power that Putin has,with access to similar records going back for generations.

Putin is going to remain in power until the new generation of Russian leaders manage to seize those files.

We can only hope that whoever it is that seizes those records destroys them instead of uses them to become "Putin,Part 2".

Meanwhile,all of Europe,as well as all of Russia lives in fear of what that madman might do. He needs to be whacked,but in such a way to insure he NEVER becomes a martyr. I honestly don't think he is mentally capable of realizing he is slowly losing power,and taking his gold and fleeing to another nation that will grant him asylum.

The other Politburo members are going to have to agree to remove him from power,and then agree to have him arrested and put on trial for corruption. Given his lifestyle,including one of the biggest personal yachts in the world,that really shouldn't be hard to prove. The only "bump in THAT road" is the entire Soviet leadership has ALWAYS been corrupt and living like princes off the national wealth,and they won't be wanting too much of that exposed.

Not that I see very much support for Putin coming from anywhere. Take away all reason to fear him by removing him from power,and it's over for him.

As to who will replace him and what sort of nation Russia would be under a new government,nobody knows. He could be replaced by someone just like him,or he could be replaced by a true reformer. It's anyone's guess,and I SUSPECT,totally dependent on who  gets Putin's secret files and what they do with them.

One thing is certain. The generation of elderly geezers who grew up and gained power under the Soviet system need to be removed from power by votes or natural deaths before any real,permanent changes are made.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2022, 09:12:04 am by sneakypete »
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1387 on: December 26, 2022, 09:13:17 am »
Putin only wants to negotiate terms that are favorable to Russia, i.e. keeping what he's not lost thus far, and ejecting NATO from the Baltics and Eastern Europe.  Not a good faith offer at all.  The guy's a liar.

@Timber Rattler

He is nothing less than a neo-Stalinist dictator.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1388 on: December 26, 2022, 09:16:41 am »
Rumors just hearsay is that Putin/Russia's current position is, "At least let us keep Crimea."

Russia is so beaten down on so many fronts, militarily, economically, globally, as well as with energy production and sale, population loss, and a dozen more, they are trying to come up with some way to stop the war but with some gain. After all of this, they simply cannot lose emptyhanded. That really would cause a civil revolution.

@240B

Agreed.

Russia is only a tiny babystep away from an actual revolution,and this scares the hell out of ANYBODY that understands what that can lead to.

Putin MUST be removed from power by the Politburo,not a revolution in the streets. Something easy to say and VERY hard to arrange.
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Offline bilo

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1389 on: December 26, 2022, 04:03:41 pm »
Rumors just hearsay is that Putin/Russia's current position is, "At least let us keep Crimea."

Russia is so beaten down on so many fronts, militarily, economically, globally, as well as with energy production and sale, population loss, and a dozen more, they are trying to come up with some way to stop the war but with some gain. After all of this, they simply cannot lose emptyhanded. That really would cause a civil revolution.

I disagree. Everything I've seen indicates an overwhelming support for the invasion and Putin by those that remain in Russia. If Russia fails the Russian people will be propagandized with the consolation that they just couldn't beat the whole world.

Putin and his oligarchs have doomed Russia.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1390 on: December 26, 2022, 04:07:07 pm »
I disagree. Everything I've seen indicates an overwhelming support for the invasion and Putin by those that remain in Russia. If Russia fails the Russian people will be propagandized with the consolation that they just couldn't beat the whole world.

Putin and his oligarchs have doomed Russia.

@bilo

WTH are you looking,the Pravda?

I have seen no indication of that anywhere. In fact,I have seen the opposite.
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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1391 on: December 26, 2022, 06:02:10 pm »
Putin claims Russia is ready to negotiate; Ukraine accuses Kremlin of trying to avoid responsibility

Russian President Vladimir Putin claimed in an interview with state television on Sunday that Moscow wants to negotiate, even as Ukrainian cities were hit with a barrage of missiles over the Christmas weekend.

"We are ready to negotiate with everyone involved about acceptable solutions, but that is up to them - we are not the ones refusing to negotiate, they are," Putin said.

The claim was rebuffed by Mykhailo Podolyak, an adviser to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, who said that "Putin needs to come back to reality."

"Russia single-handedly attacked Ukraine and is killing citizens. There are no other 'countries, motives, geopolitics,'" Podolyak tweeted. "Russia doesn’t want negotiations, but tries to avoid responsibility."

https://www.foxnews.com/world/putin-claims-russia-ready-negotiate-ukraine-accuses-kremlin-trying-avoid-responsibility

That's a non-starter.  Putin wants to retain what he's taken, including Crimea.
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1392 on: December 26, 2022, 06:31:14 pm »
That's a non-starter.  Putin wants to retain what he's taken, including Crimea.

Yep.  The only terms of negotiation should be that Russia pulls all troops out of Ukraine, and that Ukraine agrees not to invade Russia.
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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1393 on: December 26, 2022, 06:45:54 pm »
Yep.  The only terms of negotiation should be that Russia pulls all troops out of Ukraine, and that Ukraine agrees not to invade Russia.

...and builds a nice wall on the eastern front.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1394 on: December 26, 2022, 09:19:15 pm »
That's a non-starter.  Putin wants to retain what he's taken, including Crimea.

@Cyber Liberty

Exactly. Pretending you want to negotiate a peace-treaty when you are losing your support at home as well as the war you started is one of the oldest,and most desperate,tricks in the book.
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Offline bilo

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1395 on: December 27, 2022, 12:29:31 am »
@bilo

WTH are you looking,the Pravda?

I have seen no indication of that anywhere. In fact,I have seen the opposite.

Grow up and insult some one else.

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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1396 on: December 27, 2022, 05:58:53 am »
Grow up and insult some one else.

@bilo

But you are so clueless it is easy to insult you.
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Offline Timber Rattler

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1397 on: December 27, 2022, 11:56:59 am »
Moscow delivers Ukraine war ultimatum: Accept our terms

https://www.aol.com/news/russias-lavrov-either-ukraine-fulfils-095056554.html

Moscow's proposals for settlement in Ukraine are well known to Kyiv and either Ukraine fulfils them for their own good or the Russian army will decide the issue, TASS agency quoted Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov as saying.

"Our proposals for the demilitarization and denazification of the territories controlled by the regime, the elimination of threats to Russia's security emanating from there, including our new lands, are well known to the enemy," the state news agency quoted Lavrov as saying late on Monday.

"The point is simple: Fulfil them for your own good. Otherwise, the issue will be decided by the Russian army."

Excerpt.





aka "nasty degenerate SOB," "worst of the worst at Free Republic," "Garbage Troll," "Neocon Warmonger," "Filthy Piece of Trash," "damn $#%$#@!," "Silly f'er," "POS," "war pig," "neocon scumbag," "insignificant little ankle nipper," "@ss-clown," "neocuck," "termite," "Uniparty Deep stater," "Never Trump sack of dog feces," "avid Bidenista," "filthy Ukrainian," "war whore," "fricking chump," psychopathic POS, and depraved SOB.

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1398 on: December 27, 2022, 01:56:52 pm »
Moscow delivers Ukraine war ultimatum: Accept our terms

https://www.aol.com/news/russias-lavrov-either-ukraine-fulfils-095056554.html

Moscow's proposals for settlement in Ukraine are well known to Kyiv and either Ukraine fulfils them for their own good or the Russian army will decide the issue, TASS agency quoted Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov as saying.

"Our proposals for the demilitarization and denazification of the territories controlled by the regime, the elimination of threats to Russia's security emanating from there, including our new lands, are well known to the enemy," the state news agency quoted Lavrov as saying late on Monday.

"The point is simple: Fulfil them for your own good. Otherwise, the issue will be decided by the Russian army."

Excerpt.

LMAO....

1st rule of successful sincere negotiation is to have the upper hand, or at worst be on even footing.   Maybe Russian's Foreign Minister might want to elaborate that a once boasted 2 week campaign that is now bogged down to 10 months of quagmire meets that criteria.

The fact the "Negotiation" term is even being bantered, is proof that Russia now fears Crimea is at risk.   And that would be a national embarassment of epic proportions.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1399 on: December 27, 2022, 02:16:37 pm »
Moscow delivers Ukraine war ultimatum: Accept our terms

https://www.aol.com/news/russias-lavrov-either-ukraine-fulfils-095056554.html

Moscow's proposals for settlement in Ukraine are well known to Kyiv and either Ukraine fulfils them for their own good or the Russian army will decide the issue, TASS agency quoted Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov as saying.

"Our proposals for the demilitarization and denazification of the territories controlled by the regime, the elimination of threats to Russia's security emanating from there, including our new lands, are well known to the enemy," the state news agency quoted Lavrov as saying late on Monday.

"The point is simple: Fulfil them for your own good. Otherwise, the issue will be decided by the Russian army."

Excerpt.

@Timber Rattler

"our new lands". It just doesn't get any more subtle than that,does  it?

I am guessing that it was Santa that brought them the "new lands",because as near as I can remember,there are no new lands on the planet.

The mere fact that the Neo-Soviets are even asking shows their desperation.  They now understand that they took a "step too far",and don't know how to get out of it unless Ukraine surrenders to them. Don't forget,with  Putin now "President for Life" the old Soviet Union has returned,and the only thing the rulers understand is ruling a police state. To THEM, "diplomacy" is a massive armor attack.

Which is what makes them desperate. They no longer have the armor,and no longer have the money to even run their police state,never mind open new tank factories. Not to mention a manpower shortage.

While it is true that "desperation is never pretty",it is also true that "desperation is always dangerous".

We can only hope that some of the "new blood" (people under 50 years of age) can get together and have enough power to remove Putin and his geezer supporters from power. Otherwise the Neo-Soviet desperation is going to get even worse,and many,many people on both sides will end up dying before they lose.

This can NOT continue without negative consequences to Russia.
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