Author Topic: Ukraine 3  (Read 164026 times)

0 Members and 8 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 60,555
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1125 on: November 15, 2022, 09:32:39 pm »
Being blind to the reality of the FTX corruption doesn't add to a posters credibility.

I am as supportive as any poster who wants Ukraine to prevail in it's war with Russia. However, I don't want that to blind me to Ukrainian corruption and involvement in helping to fund the Rats by means of a money laundering operation.
That money likely wasn't ever in the hands of Ukrainians, the 'paper trail' just reads that way.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online Elderberry

  • TBR Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 25,574
Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1126 on: November 16, 2022, 01:01:52 am »
The 10-point peace plan for Ukraine proposed by Zelensky

https://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/the-10-point-peace-plan-for-ukraine-proposed-by-zelensky

NUSA DUA - Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky on Tuesday called on the Group of 20 major economies meeting in Indonesia to step up their leadership and stop Russia’s war in his country under a peace plan he has proposed.

“We will not allow Russia to wait it out, build up its forces, and then start a new series of terror and global destabilisation,” he said via videolink to the summit on the Indonesia island of Bali. “I am convinced now is the time when the Russian destructive war must and can be stopped.”

Here are excerpts from the 10-point peace formula that Mr Zelensky outlined in his speech at the summit.

(Titles Only here)

1. Radiation and nuclear safety
2. Food security
3. Energy security
4. Prisoners and deportees
5. United Nations Charter and Ukraine’s territorial integrity
6. Russian troops and hostilities
7. Justice
8. Immediate protection of the environment
9. Prevention of escalation
10. Confirmation of the end of the war

Excerpts at link.


Online Elderberry

  • TBR Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 25,574
Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1127 on: November 16, 2022, 01:07:48 am »
 Zelensky at G20 summit: If Russia wants to end this war, let it prove it with actions

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3614516-zelensky-at-g20-summit-if-russia-wants-to-end-this-war-let-it-prove-it-with-actions.html

Ukraine has always been a leader in peacekeeping efforts, and the world has witnessed it. And if Russia says that it supposedly wants to end this war, let it prove it with actions.

President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelensky said this in his speech at the G20 summit, Ukrinform reports.

The full text of the president’s speech is provided below:

Full text at link.

Online Elderberry

  • TBR Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 25,574
Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1128 on: November 16, 2022, 01:09:52 am »
Russia's Lavrov Says Ukraine's Terms For Negotiations 'Unrealistic'

https://www.barrons.com/news/russia-s-lavrov-says-ukraine-s-terms-for-negotiations-unrealistic-01668520514?tesla=y

Russia's Foreign Minister, Sergei Lavrov, says that Ukraine's conditions for restarting talks with Moscow are "unrealistic". Speaking at the G20 summit, where pressure is mounting on Russia to end the conflict, he says "all problems are with the Ukrainian side, which is categorically refusing negotiations and putting forward conditions that are obviously unrealistic". Lavrov says he made this position clear during a conversation with French President Emmanuel Macron.

Offline DB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,106
Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1129 on: November 16, 2022, 01:17:03 am »
Russia's Lavrov Says Ukraine's Terms For Negotiations 'Unrealistic'

https://www.barrons.com/news/russia-s-lavrov-says-ukraine-s-terms-for-negotiations-unrealistic-01668520514?tesla=y

Russia's Foreign Minister, Sergei Lavrov, says that Ukraine's conditions for restarting talks with Moscow are "unrealistic". Speaking at the G20 summit, where pressure is mounting on Russia to end the conflict, he says "all problems are with the Ukrainian side, which is categorically refusing negotiations and putting forward conditions that are obviously unrealistic". Lavrov says he made this position clear during a conversation with French President Emmanuel Macron.

Got to love that... Russia from the start said surrender was the only option for Ukraine.

Online Hoodat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 40,806
Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1130 on: November 16, 2022, 02:03:30 am »
Starving, Freezing, Getting Shot At By Their Own Regiment—No Wonder These Russian Draftees Surrendered

David Axe  |  Nov 14, 2022  |  08:00am EST



Russian draftees after surrendering near Svatove.VIA SOCIAL MEDIA

The 92nd Mechanized Brigade is one of the best and, for the Russians, most dangerous formations in the Ukrainian army. So you can’t blame the gaggle of under-trained, under-equipped and badly led Russian draftees for surrendering the first chance they got when the 92nd and other Ukrainian brigades attacked them near Svatove in eastern Ukraine’s Donbas region on Nov. 7.

The surrender could be a sign of things to come as Ukraine’s eastern counteroffensive barrels into its third month, and the Russian army shoves more unready draftees to the front in a desperate—and so far failing—bid to slow the Ukrainians.

It doesn’t appear the deepening winter is going to help the Russians, either.

A video that circulated online on Sunday depicts at least 21 middle-age Russian draftees—presumably some of the roughly 300,000 men the Kremlin forced into military service starting in September—after they surrendered on the previous Monday. “The command is giving up,” one draftee says, his hands bound. Their officers “threw them out to the slaughter.”

The draftee describes dire conditions for the Russian regiments—reportedly including the 346th Motorized Rifle Regiment—occupying Svatove, a town with a prewar population of 16,000 that abuts the P66 highway, which itself threads through the forest and fields to Severodonetsk, one of the bigger cities in Donbas.

The Ukrainians held Severodonetsk until July. Liberating the city is a top priority in Kyiv. Approaching the city from the north means going past Svatove. It’s not for no reason the Ukrainian eastern command has assigned the 92nd Mechanized Brigade to that sector. If any formation can get the job done, it’s the 92nd.  .  .  .

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2022/11/14/starving-freezing-getting-shot-at-by-their-own-regiment-no-wonder-these-russian-draftees-surrendered/



The 92nd Mech Brigade is bad ass.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Online Hoodat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 40,806
Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1131 on: November 16, 2022, 03:57:18 am »
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Kamaji

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 59,063
Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1132 on: November 16, 2022, 12:36:26 pm »
Ukraine 'blows up Russian oil depot 190 miles from Moscow in drone strike' hours after Putin's forces launched barrage of 90 missiles

By WILL STEWART FOR MAILONLINE and REUTERS
16 November 2022

Images show a suspected Ukrainian military drone attack on a Russian oil depot just 190 miles from Moscow.

The 4am attack 'blew up an oil depot in the settlement of Stalnoi Kon', said regional governor Andrey Klychkov.

Unverified images on social media showed what appeared to be a single rupture on the side of an oil storage tank, blackened by soot.

The logo of Russia's state-controlled pipeline operator Transneft can be seen on the tank, which state television said was believed to be empty.  The alleged drone attack left a crater some 12ft deep, according to one report.

Since the start of Russia's offensive in Ukraine, several fuel or ammunition depots in southern Russia have been attacked by drones or helicopters, with authorities blaming Ukrainian forces.

The latest apparent attack comes a day after Russia fired almost 100 missiles at cities across Ukraine, causing three deaths and cutting the power supply to millions.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11433955/Ukraine-blows-Russian-oil-depot-190-miles-Moscow-drone-strike.html


Offline Kamaji

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 59,063
Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1133 on: November 16, 2022, 12:38:09 pm »
Ukraine has now reclaimed more than HALF the territory Russia had captured since war began

By DAVID AVERRE FOR MAILONLINE
15 November 2022

Ukraine has reclaimed more than 50 per cent of the territory it had lost since the beginning of the war to Russian troops, a new report has claimed.

Within a week of Vladimir Putin ordering his tanks to roll across the Ukrainian border on February 24, Russian armed convoys had paraded into north eastern Ukraine and had pulled up mere miles from the outskirts of Kyiv.

There they remained while Russian troops flooded into the south, rumbling through the Zaporizhzhia region and into Kherson where they seized the eponymous city on the Dnieper river.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11431345/Ukraine-reclaimed-HALF-territory-Russia-captured-war-began.html

Offline Right_in_Virginia

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 82,829
Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1134 on: November 16, 2022, 04:51:26 pm »
Disclose.tv
@disclosetv

JUST IN - Poland's president says it's "very likely" missile blast was from the Ukrainian air defense, calling it an "unfortunate accident."

6:51 AM · Nov 16, 2022 ·Twitter Web App

Offline mountaineer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 83,505
Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1135 on: November 16, 2022, 04:53:52 pm »
Matt Walsh
@MattWalshBlog
Remember yesterday when a Ukrainian missile hit Poland and Zelensky immediately blamed Russia and used the incident to try and pull western governments into a global nuclear war?
8:57 AM · Nov 16, 2022


Zelenskyy yesterday: “Terror is not limited to our national borders. Russian missiles hit Poland … NATO territory. This is a Russian missile attack on collective security -- a very significant escalation. We must act”

https://twitter.com/tomselliott/status/1592851112654032898

Offline catfish1957

  • The Conservative Carp Rapscallion of Brieferville
  • Political Researcher
  • *****
  • Posts: 34,167
  • Gender: Male
Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1136 on: November 16, 2022, 04:55:47 pm »
Disclose.tv
@disclosetv

JUST IN - Poland's president says it's "very likely" missile blast was from the Ukrainian air defense, calling it an "unfortunate accident."

6:51 AM · Nov 16, 2022 ·Twitter Web App

Putin may be insane, but he isn't suicidal. Invoking the Wrath if NATO and U.S. while in "retreat mode" would make no sense whatsoever.
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline catfish1957

  • The Conservative Carp Rapscallion of Brieferville
  • Political Researcher
  • *****
  • Posts: 34,167
  • Gender: Male
Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1137 on: November 16, 2022, 04:58:43 pm »
Matt Walsh
@MattWalshBlog
Remember yesterday when a Ukrainian missile hit Poland and Zelensky immediately blamed Russia and used the incident to try and pull western governments into a global nuclear war?
8:57 AM · Nov 16, 2022


Zelenskyy yesterday: “Terror is not limited to our national borders. Russian missiles hit Poland … NATO territory. This is a Russian missile attack on collective security -- a very significant escalation. We must act”

https://twitter.com/tomselliott/status/1592851112654032898

Can't be....  This is the greatest leader who ever lived.

 ////00000////
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 82,829
Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1138 on: November 16, 2022, 05:26:12 pm »
Quote
Kim Dotcom
@KimDotcom
·1h

“NATO needs to act”
“This is a Russian missile strike”
“This is a very serious escalation”
“Put Russia in its place. Terrorists”

That’s what @ZelenskyyUa said about the missiles that hit Poland. Now we know that these were Ukrainian missiles. Stop supporting this lunatic.

Offline Kamaji

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 59,063
Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1139 on: November 16, 2022, 05:28:55 pm »
:facepalm2:

If the orcs really wanted this to stop, all they'd have to do is to pick their sorry asses up, walk or drive back across the internationally recognized border between Ukraine and Russia, and start behaving like something less than orcs.

It's all within Russia's control; that they have not pulled out means that they are not interested in peace.

Offline Kamaji

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 59,063
Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1140 on: November 16, 2022, 05:38:50 pm »
Russian colonel involved in Putin's mobilisation campaign is found shot dead in mysterious circumstances in his office at prestigious military school

By WILL STEWART FOR MAILONLINE
16 November 2022

A colonel closely involved in Vladimir Putin's mobilisation campaign for the war in Ukraine has been found shot dead.

Colonel Vadim Boyko, 44, was found with 'multiple bullet wounds' inside his office at the prestigious Makarov Pacific Higher Naval School in Vladivostok today.

Witnesses said Colonel Boyko had come to work and walked into his office before 'five shots' were heard. A subordinate ran to investigate, and found the body.

Despite the witness claims of multiple shots, initial reports in Russia said that suicide was suspected.

But BAZA media - which has close law enforcement links - said criminal investigators had found five shell casings and four Makarov pistols beside the dead colonel.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11434895/Russian-colonel-involved-Putins-mobilisation-campaign-shot-dead-military-school.html

Online Hoodat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 40,806
Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1141 on: November 16, 2022, 06:31:58 pm »
Matt Walsh
@MattWalshBlog
Remember yesterday when a Ukrainian missile hit Poland and Zelensky immediately blamed Russia and used the incident to try and pull western governments into a global nuclear war?
8:57 AM · Nov 16, 2022

I remember the first part where Zelenskiy initially blamed Russia.  But I certainly don't remember the part where Zelenskiy tried to invoke a global nuclear war.  Anybody got a quote on that?
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline DB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,106
Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1142 on: November 16, 2022, 06:41:00 pm »
Its is hard to understand people who think Russia which is failing badly in a war that it started with its neighbor can fight WWIII and somehow benefit from that.

Russia can end the war anytime they like while keeping their long-standing borders intact. All they have to do is leave Ukraine.

It isn't very complicated.

Offline Kamaji

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 59,063
Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1143 on: November 16, 2022, 06:41:40 pm »
Its is hard to understand people who think Russia which is failing badly in a war that it started with its neighbor can fight WWIII and somehow benefit from that.

Russia can end the war anytime they like while keeping their long-standing borders intact. All they have to do is leave Ukraine.

It isn't very complicated.

:thumbsup:

Online Hoodat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 40,806
Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1144 on: November 16, 2022, 06:51:36 pm »
Kyiv says Poland strike a ‘very sensitive issue,’ wants to see evidence that its forces fired missile

Holly Ellyatt  |  NOV 16 2022  |  5:12 AM EST  |  UPDATED 4 HOURS AGO


Ukraine’s Defense Ministry responded cautiously to mounting evidence suggesting its own armed forces fired a missile that hit Poland, killing two people — saying the issue was “very sensitive” and that it wanted its own officials to be able access the site where the incident took place.

Early Wednesday morning, The Associated Press reported, citing three unnamed U.S. officials, that preliminary assessments indicated “the missile that struck Poland had been fired by Ukrainian forces at an incoming Russian missile.”

Other media agencies, including NBC News, cited similar details on Wednesday; Reuters reported a NATO source as saying President Joe Biden had told the G-7 and NATO partners that the strike was caused by “a Ukrainian air defense missile,” while The Wall Street Journal cited two senior Western officials briefed on the preliminary U.S. assessments as saying the missile was from a Ukrainian air defense system.

Those initial findings were then confirmed by NATO on Wednesday morning with Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg telling reporters that while investigations continue, the strike was likely caused by a Ukrainian air defense missile but that, ultimately, Russia was “responsible for the war that has caused this situation.”

Earlier Wednesday, Ukraine’s Defense Ministry was cautious about the initial assessments of the incident. Yuriy Sak, an advisor to Ukraine’s defense minister, Oleksiy Reznikov, told CNBC that Kyiv welcomed a thorough investigation of the incident and said the issue was “very sensitive.”  .  .  .

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/16/ukraine-reacts-as-initial-findings-suggest-it-fired-the-missile-that-hit-poland.html
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline mountaineer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 83,505
Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1145 on: November 16, 2022, 08:02:00 pm »
Glenn Greenwald
@ggreenwald
US funding for war in Ukraine in 9 months:

Mar: $ 13.6 billion
May: $ 40b
Nov: $ 37.7b: Biden's new request

That $ 91.3 billion is 33% more than Russia's *total military spending for the year*

It's *double* the US's average annual expenditure for its own war in Afghanistan
10:04 AM · Nov 16, 2022

Online Hoodat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 40,806
Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1146 on: November 16, 2022, 08:05:36 pm »
Glenn Greenwald
@ggreenwald
US funding for war in Ukraine in 9 months:

Mar: $ 13.6 billion
May: $ 40b
Nov: $ 37.7b: Biden's new request

That $ 91.3 billion is 33% more than Russia's *total military spending for the year*

It's *double* the US's average annual expenditure for its own war in Afghanistan
10:04 AM · Nov 16, 2022

Clearly, if Ukraine had gotten $91.3 billion, their tanks would be in Moscow right now.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Kamaji

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 59,063
Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1147 on: November 16, 2022, 08:07:19 pm »
Clearly, if Ukraine had gotten $91.3 billion, their tanks would be in Moscow right now.

:thumbsup:

Online Hoodat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 40,806
Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1148 on: November 16, 2022, 08:09:49 pm »
Someone got rich as hell off of that money, while Ukraine continues to rely on Russia as its #1 arms supplier.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

  • Technical
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,871
Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1149 on: November 16, 2022, 09:08:14 pm »
:facepalm2:

If the orcs really wanted this to stop, all they'd have to do is to pick their sorry asses up, walk or drive back across the internationally recognized border between Ukraine and Russia, and start behaving like something less than orcs.

It's all within Russia's control; that they have not pulled out means that they are not interested in peace.

Turn their tanks and guns around and use them on their own generals and leaders, frankly, if what I'm reading is true.