Ukraine 3

[bilo]

Once again, just like their German ideological/philosophical forebears, the Russian nazis take out their frustrations at their military losses on civilians.

It's as though they have the attitude "if I can't have it nobody can".

I don't see how you can live in peace with this evil.

[Hoodat]

Biden lost his temper, the people familiar with the call said. The American people were being quite generous, and his admin…working hard to help Ukraine, he said, raising his voice, and Zelenskyy could show a little more gratitude.
Story from NBC News: Biden lost temper with Zelenskyy in June phone call when Ukrainian leader asked for more aid

Biden highlighted how generous the US taxpayer had been doling money out to the State Dept, NATO, and bordering countries while denying Ukraine the weapons it had been requesting for the last four months.  It was around the time of this call that the first HIMARS systems were being deployed in Ukraine after months of waiting.

As for losing his temper, this is just another symptom of his dementia and his unfitness for office.

It's no secret that Ukraine needs help. Lots of it.  Their President would be derelict not to ask.  But let's not confuse his request with the sheer corruption and incompetence of the current US administration.  Sending billions to Romania or Poland shouldn't count as money given to Ukraine.  Neither should huge sums given to the US State Department or USAID.

[Hoodat]

It's as though they have the attitude "if I can't have it nobody can".

Pure envy.

I don't see how you can live in peace with this evil.

You can't.

[Hoodat]

Well, you *are* the moth to my flame -----

More like the fact checker to your lies.

[Kamaji]

More like the fact checker to your lies.

[Hoodat]

Why Belarusian soldiers are fighting for Ukraine

43m ago

Retired Air Vice-Marshal Sean Bell gives his assessment of Belarus's involvement in the war.

He spoke to Sky News about why there are Belarusian soldiers fighting for Ukraine - despite Alexander Lukashenko, the leader of Belarus, being a "puppet" of Vladimir Putin.

Video at link.

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-latest-news-russia-sends-signal-it-could-withdraw-from-kherson-ukraine-says-its-unlikely-putin-will-survive-war-12541713?postid=4779370#liveblog-body

[libertybele]

Biden lost his temper, the people familiar with the call said. The American people were being quite generous, and his admin…working hard to help Ukraine, he said, raising his voice, and Zelenskyy could show a little more gratitude.
Story from NBC News: Biden lost temper with Zelenskyy in June phone call when Ukrainian leader asked for more aid

Well, at least people familiar with the phone call are making Joe look tough on Zelenskyy.

I still take the stance of enough is enough.  Ukraine has been given plenty for years.  NO MORE!!   We've spent billions.  Americans are feeling the adverse affects.  Time to stop throwing $$ at a problem that isn't ours.

[Kamaji]

Well, at least people familiar with the phone call are making Joe look tough on Zelenskyy.

I still take the stance of enough is enough.  Ukraine has been given plenty for years.  NO MORE!!   We've spent billions.  Americans are feeling the adverse affects.  Time to stop throwing $$ at a problem that isn't ours.

In other words, time to turn chickensh*t and welch on our solemn obligations.  Just like every other third world turd of a country.

[libertybele]

In other words, time to turn chickensh*t and welch on our solemn obligations.  Just like every other third world turd of a country.

Reality check.  The choice we are faced with now after giving them billions which hasn't helped is to continue to deplete our resources and our military?? Sorry  .... we haven't turned on them, what we've done hasn't helped and has only inflicted hardships on our own country and people.

If this Republic falls, then where will they get their aid??  Who is going to come to our aid? Russia?  China?  (We're now targets). Certainly not Europe as they are predicting thousands of Europeans will freeze to death this winter.  Canada? (yeah right)

[Kamaji]

Reality check.  The choice we are faced with now after giving them billions which hasn't helped is to continue to deplete our resources and our military?? Sorry  .... we haven't turned on them, what we've done hasn't helped and has only inflicted hardships on our own country and people.

If this Republic falls, then where will they get their aid??  Who is going to come to our aid? Russia?  China?  (We're now targets). Certainly not Europe as they are predicting thousands of Europeans will freeze to death this winter.  Canada? (yeah right)

Reality check:  we promised to guarantee their security if they gave up their nuclear weapons.  Now, when fulfilling our promises requires a little more than blithe talk, some of us want to turn chickensh*t.  Bwaack, bwaack, bwaak.

[libertybele]

Reality check:  we promised to guarantee their security if they gave up their nuclear weapons.  Now, when fulfilling our promises requires a little more than blithe talk, some of us want to turn chickensh*t.  Bwaack, bwaack, bwaak.

Obviously you either have no rebuttal or you missed my point.

Guarantee their security?  Ok ... so, should we enter into war?  Keep giving them billions?  What exactly do you propose??

BTW bawk and laugh at yourself .... meanwhile there are those of us that do see the dangers of  WWIII and the severity of the hardship that this has created for our country.

I'll stick with making America First.  Without her, where is the rest of the world going to be?  Think about it instead of quickly using snide antics.

[Hoodat]

I'll stick with making America First.  Without her, where is the rest of the world going to be?  Think about it instead of quickly using snide antics.

I can appreciate a genuine isolationist viewpoint even if I may disagree with it.  It should be able to stand on it's own merit.  No reason to bolster it with falsehoods on how the US is responsible for the 2014 revolution or the Russian invasion which quickly followed.

[libertybele]

I can appreciate a genuine isolationist viewpoint even if I may disagree with it.  It should be able to stand on it's own merit.  No reason to bolster it with falsehoods on how the US is responsible for the 2014 revolution or the Russian invasion which quickly followed.

Why do you insist on looking at such a narrow field of Russia/Ukraine conflict?  I posted links that go way, way before 2014.

Perhaps it's not truly isolationism when what you've done isn't working and hasn't worked.  Short of getting involved in armed conflict, what do you propose as a solution?

I see it at this point as it's either them or us. 

[Hoodat]

Short of getting involved in armed conflict, what do you propose as a solution?

Provide Ukraine with the weapons needed to lay waste the entire Russian Army deployed on Russian soil.  Give Ukraine the capability to remove Russia's capacity for war for the next two decades.

As far as lessons learned goes, we should have embraced them as Western partners and wholeheartedly supported their entry into the EU.  And we should have pressured Russia to withdraw in 2014 instead of letting that fester for eight years just like we did with Saddam in Iraq.  And above all else, we should hold US politicians accountable for graft, perjury, and extortion, among other things.  I cannot for the life of me understand why Marie Yovanovitch isn't in prison this very moment for perjuring herself before Congress.  Not to mention countless State Dept officials who were on the take.

[libertybele]

Provide Ukraine with the weapons needed to lay waste the entire Russian Army deployed on Russian soil.  Give Ukraine the capability to remove Russia's capacity for war for the next two decades.

As far as lessons learned goes, we should have embraced them as Western partners and wholeheartedly supported their entry into the EU.  And we should have pressured Russia to withdraw in 2014 instead of letting that fester for eight years just like we did with Saddam in Iraq.  And above all else, we should hold US politicians accountable for graft, perjury, and extortion, among other things.  I cannot for the life of me understand why Marie Yovanovitch isn't in prison this very moment for perjuring herself before Congress.  Not to mention countless State Dept officials who were on the take.

In theory, ok, but in reality not.  We've already spent billions.  It is my understanding that we have also drawn down our military equipment to supply them with weapons....so I just don't see continuing to do the same thing and expecting a different result as an option, nor do I believe that we should place hardships on Americans and that is where we are at.

I believe Joe and his handlers mindset is geared towards war. Why else would they keep depleting reserves, munitions and crippling our economy?? 

Many things that perhaps we should have done as you mentioned, but, the ship has sailed and we're taking on water.

I agree as well that we should hold politicians/officials accountable, but we haven't done so and that is why we find ourselves with the overwhelming corruptness that we have in our govt and our Republic hanging on by a thread.

[Hoodat]

Ukrainian Saboteurs Reportedly Blew Up Russian Helicopters 500 Miles From Ukraine

David Axe  |  Oct 31, 2022  |  06:24pm EDT


A Kamov Ka-52.

Russian air force regiments flying the service’s Kamov Ka-52 attack helicopters have been having a difficult war. It just got a lot more difficult.

Ukrainian air-defenses have shot down at least a quarter of the 100 or so twin-rotor Ka-52s the air force operated before Russia’s wider war on Ukraine starting late February. And now Ukrainian saboteurs have damaged or destroyed another four Ka-52s at an airfield in western Russia, according to Ukraine’s military intelligence agency.

“Two Ka-52s were destroyed at the airfield in the Pskov region, and two more were seriously damaged,” the intel agency claimed Monday.

It’s impossible to verify the agency’s assertion. But Russian social media users mentioned incidents involving helicopters in Pskov Oblast. And there is a video purportedly depicting the daytime sabotage. The short video depicts a man crouching alongside a Ka-52, preparing what appears to be a bomb combining an MD-5M detonator with a VZD-6Ch mechanical fuze.

The VZD-6Ch operates on a delay of up to six hours, giving a saboteur plenty of time to escape.

Ukrainian agents working in Pskov Oblast would need as much time as they can get. Veretye air base in Pskov lies 15 miles from the Russian border with Estonia, and 500 miles from Ukraine. It’s unclear how the potential saboteurs may have infiltrated Russia, but they undoubtedly traveled some distance.

Whether the apparent bombs destroyed any Ka-52s or merely damaged them, it was a powerful blow. The two-seat Ka-52 is Russia’s best attack helicopter. And they’re in increasingly short supply.

The air force has written off at least 25 Ka-52s that outside analysts can confirm. Most of them were shot down by Ukrainian air-defenses, many while hovering as their crews held laser designators on target in order to guide anti-tank missiles.

Don’t count on manufacturer Kamov to make good those losses any time soon. It took Kamov 14 years to supply the roughly 100 Ka-52s that the Russian air force went to war with. And Russia’s production of military aircraft actually has decreased owing to foreign sanctions on high-tech components that Russian industry never has been able to manufacture on its own.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2022/10/31/ukrainian-saboteurs-reportedly-blew-up-russian-helicopters-500-miles-from-ukraine/

[Hoodat]

In theory, ok, but in reality not.  We've already spent billions.  It is my understanding that we have also drawn down our military equipment to supply them with weapons....so I just don't see continuing to do the same thing and expecting a different result as an option, nor do I believe that we should place hardships on Americans and that is where we are at.

I believe Joe and his handlers mindset is .  .  .

Joe Biden's incompetence, weakness, wastefulness, and treason does not disqualify what should be done.  Billions have been squandered.  Billions have been given to other European nations.  Billions have been used to fund USAID.  Billions have enriched the foreign budgets of State Department officials.  And billions have been transferred to the Pentagon for 'drawdowns' of very old equipment.  Can't get that money back.  But if this money had instead been used to arm Ukraine with the weapons needed to destroy the Russian army on the battlefield, this war could have ended already.

Biden doesn't necessarily want war.  But he definitely wants an excuse to send money to every corner of Europe - money that will trickle back to him and his friends.  And worse still, he wants to drag this war out as long as possible, because he wrongly thinks that will weaken Putin more than a quick Ukrainian victory.  And the biggest loser in all of this is the Ukrainian people.

Just from a humanitarian standpoint, I want the war, the atrocities, and the enslavement committed against the Ukrainian people to end.  And the quickest way to achieve that is to remove the Russian Army from Ukraine either by retreat or annihilation.

[Smokin Joe]

In other words, time to turn chickensh*t and welch on our solemn obligations.  Just like every other third world turd of a country.

It's how democrats roll, from Vietnam to Afghanistan, they have turned their backs and left (often in extreme disorder).

My biggest problem is that we have no idea how much of that money actually got to Ukraine. My bet is that it has been seriously siphoned off in a host of other directions despite claims it was going to help the Ukrainians fight.

[DB]

It's how democrats roll, from Vietnam to Afghanistan, they have turned their backs and left (often in extreme disorder).

My biggest problem is that we have no idea how much of that money actually got to Ukraine. My bet is that it has been seriously siphoned off in a host of other directions despite claims it was going to help the Ukrainians fight.

I'm all for weapons and supplies to beat the bear back. No cash.

[Smokin Joe]

I'm all for weapons and supplies to beat the bear back. No cash.

Yep, me, too.

[libertybele]

Joe Biden's incompetence, weakness, wastefulness, and treason does not disqualify what should be done.  Billions have been squandered.  Billions have been given to other European nations.  Billions have been used to fund USAID.  Billions have enriched the foreign budgets of State Department officials.  And billions have been transferred to the Pentagon for 'drawdowns' of very old equipment.  Can't get that money back.  But if this money had instead been used to arm Ukraine with the weapons needed to destroy the Russian army on the battlefield, this war could have ended already.

Biden doesn't necessarily want war.  But he definitely wants an excuse to send money to every corner of Europe - money that will trickle back to him and his friends.  And worse still, he wants to drag this war out as long as possible, because he wrongly thinks that will weaken Putin more than a quick Ukrainian victory.  And the biggest loser in all of this is the Ukrainian people.

Just from a humanitarian standpoint, I want the war, the atrocities, and the enslavement committed against the Ukrainian people to end.  And the quickest way to achieve that is to remove the Russian Army from Ukraine either by retreat or annihilation.

Joe is an evil, corrupt politician that isn't all there (as we all know).  I see that the war in the Ukraine has greatly weakened our country and I'm not so sure that the escalation wasn't by design. Certainly Joe & Company have profited.

We both agree that the atrocities against Ukraine need to end. Also the Russian people aren't free from harm. From my viewpoint with Joe in office the conflict will continue. I don't see Russia retreating and to annihilate them would mean WWIII.  Just my opinion.

[libertybele]

I'm all for weapons and supplies to beat the bear back. No cash.

Haven't we given them weapons and supplies and in doing so haven't we drawn down on our own reserves?

[Smokin Joe]

Haven't we given them weapons and supplies and in doing so haven't we drawn down on our own reserves?

Anything taken from active inventory can be said to 'draw down' our reserves. Every bullet. Every shell. We were supposed to be set up for a two theater war, and there's a lot of aging materiel out there. That becomes a use or lose it proposition, and at least this way its disposal is serving a purpose besides training EOD personnel in vlosing things up. Replacement stocks of ammo and arms should be the latest and best, for out guys to use if the need arises.

Frankly, I am far more concerned about this administration's energy policy. It is the root driver behind inflation, and this winter there may well be critical regional shortages of fuels essential for heating and shipping. If you think prices are high now, just wait.

[libertybele]

Anything taken from active inventory can be said to 'draw down' our reserves. Every bullet. Every shell. We were supposed to be set up for a two theater war, and there's a lot of aging materiel out there. That becomes a use or lose it proposition, and at least this way its disposal is serving a purpose besides training EOD personnel in vlosing things up. Replacement stocks of ammo and arms should be the latest and best, for out guys to use if the need arises.

Frankly, I am far more concerned about this administration's energy policy. It is the root driver behind inflation, and this winter there may well be critical regional shortages of fuels essential for heating and shipping. If you think prices are high now, just wait.

I have posted a couple of times that the projected date that we run out of diesel is November 8 and I do fear what's going to happen as a result.  More and more empty shelves and people losing their jobs. I think we may see a revolt.  The GOP taking the majority in either House isn't going to solve the problem and possibly they will be blamed.  At the end of the day, it doesn't matter who's to blame, the energy crisis and the economic crisis is here.

[Hoodat]

I'm all for weapons and supplies to beat the bear back.

Which is all Ukraine has asked from us from the beginning.