Ukraine 3

[Right_in_Virginia]

Michael Tracey
@mtracey

The "nation-building" has been going full-steam-ahead since 2014

Michael Tracey
@mtracey
·Apr 20

The US has been so granularly embedded in the governance of Ukraine that it even created a plan for street parking

 

1:32 AM · Oct 18, 2022   Twitter Web App

[Right_in_Virginia]

Michael Tracey
@mtracey

Remember when both Republicans and Democrats pretended to be huge skeptics of "nation-building"? Since February, the US has dispersed at least $9 billion to underwrite the most basic functions of the Ukraine government, like paying the salaries and pensions of state employees

12:58 AM · Oct 18, 2022  ·Twitter Web App

[Hoodat]

This is our war against Russia -- who will govern The Donbas in The Borderland is the excuse we put in play in 2014 ---

2014.  2014.  Something significant happened that year.  What was it?

Oh yeah, I remember.  That was the year that Russia decided to invade Ukraine because their puppet got canned.

Russia started this war.  They own it.  The claim above is a lie.

[Kamaji]

2014.  2014.  Something significant happened that year.  What was it?

Oh yeah, I remember.  That was the year that Russia decided to invade Ukraine because their puppet got canned.

Russia started this war.  They own it.  The claim above is a lie.

[Hoodat]

Michael Tracey
@mtracey

Remember when both Republicans and Democrats pretended to be huge skeptics of "nation-building"? Since February, the US has dispersed at least $9 billion to underwrite the most basic functions of the Ukraine government, like paying the salaries and pensions of state employees

12:58 AM · Oct 18, 2022  ·Twitter Web App

Is that why Russia decided to roll 100,000 troops through Belarus and attack Kyiv?

btw, no one here supports the Biden Administration policy of handing cash to Ukraine.  No one.  But then you knew that already.  Another strawman.

[Right_in_Virginia]

2014.  2014.  Something significant happened that year.  What was it?

Oh yeah, I remember.  That was the year that Russia decided to invade Ukraine because their puppet got canned.

Russia started this war.  They own it.  The claim above is a lie.

Nope.. This one's on us.  We pushed for it for almost a decade-----  prodded, instigated, interfered, armed, inflamed, pissed on negotiations, expodentially accelerated it----- weakening our own military readiness and economic security in the process.

If you think we've done this out of concern Russia is going to march through Europe or who's going to govern The Donbas in the outerbanks of The Borderland, or for "freedom",  think again ---- only this time think with a clear head from outside the Cold War box you're trapped in.

[Right_in_Virginia]

btw, no one here supports the Biden Administration policy of handing cash to Ukraine.

Based on your posting history,  your apparent disappointment with Biden is he hasn't done enough to propel this conflict into WWIII.

[Hoodat]

Sandbag sculpture: how Kyiv is shielding statues from Russian bombs

Charlotte Higgins and Artem Mazhulin, Kyiv  |  18 Oct 2022


The boarded-up monument to Taras Shevchenko in Kyiv. Photograph: Ed Ram/The Guardian

For two Mondays in a row Russia has launched missiles at Kyiv’s city centre, in the most intense strikes on the capital since Moscow launched its full-scale invasion of Ukraine.

The targets of these missiles are unclear – if they were meant to strike crucial infrastructure, the only real clarity is that they have exploded in central, residential districts, falling close to parks, offices and cultural buildings.

Two of last week’s explosions were so close to significant national monuments that some speculated that the statues themselves – sandbagged and protected – might have been the targets.

One of those missiles cratered a children’s playground a few metres from a monument to Taras Shevchenko, Ukraine’s national poet. Fundamental in creating a Ukrainian-language literature, he was exiled by Tsar Nicholas I and banned for writing or making art for a decade. In a neat turn of history, his monument, when it was erected in 1939, replaced an earlier statue of that very same Russian ruler.

Another missile, landing on the other side of the park bearing Shevchenko’s name, hit a road intersection, part of a morning of Russian strikes that killed seven and injured more than 50 in the city. It also scattered hoarding protecting a monument to the statesman and scholar Mykhailo Hrushevsky, a key figure in the pre-revolutionary Ukrainian nationalist movement, and the author of a 10-volume history of the country.  .  .

.  .  .  One Kyiv public sculpture that is neither sandbagged nor boxed up, and lacks protection of any kind, is the imposing equestrian statue dedicated to Mykola Shchors. The Ukrainian officer fought in the Red Army against the independent Ukrainian People’s Republic that was briefly established between 1917 and 1920.


Graffitied statue dedicated to Mykola Shchors. Photograph: Ed Ram/The Guardian

The statue is daubed with graffiti, translating to slogans such as “demolish me completely!” and “butcher”. There are plenty of people in Kyiv who would not mind at all if one of Vladimir Putin’s missiles happened to hit that one.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/18/sandbag-sculpture-kyiv-shielding-statues-from-russian-bombs

[Hoodat]

Based on your posting history,  your apparent disappointment with Biden is he hasn't done enough to propel this conflict into WWIII.

Based on my posting history, it has been repeated over and over again that I oppose Biden's policy with Ukraine.  Please stop lying about what I believe.

A rapid defeat of the Red Army (which Biden opposes) is the one thing that will prevent WWIII from happening.  I have stated this again and again and again throughout these threads.  Why do you feel compelled to distort my position? 

[Hoodat]

Energy situation 'critical' after Russian attacks

Hugo Bachega & Paul Kirby  |  1 hour ago

Russian forces have again targeted Ukraine's energy facilities, leaving part of Kyiv and other cities with no power and water.

A presidential aide said the situation across Ukraine was now critical.

Prosecutors say two people were killed in an attack on the capital. Plumes of smoke were seen billowing from around a power station near the Dnipro river.

Power and water were cut in Zhytomyr, west of Kyiv, and two facilities were badly damaged in Dnipro.

"Everyone should be ready, first, to save electricity, and second, rolling power blackouts are also possible if strikes continue," said Kyrylo Tymoshenko, the deputy head of the president's office.

"The entire population needs to prepare for a tough winter."

President Volodymyr Zelensky said on Twitter on Tuesday that in the past eight days, 30% of Ukraine's power stations had been destroyed, "causing massive blackouts across the country".

Ukrainian energy firm DTEK said two of its thermal power plants had been significantly damaged by Russian shelling, leaving one worker dead and six others wounded.  .  .

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63297239


Putin's war against Ukrainian civilians continues.

[bilo]

Biden's entire Ukraine policy centers on wearing Russia down to the point where Putin steps down from power.  And he doesn't care how many Russians or Ukrainians need to die for that to occur.

Our policy instead should be centered on the defeat of the Russian Army as quickly as possible, removing them as a threat to the world.  But Biden doesn't want that.  He wants to drag this war out forever.

I think you're right. Initially I thought it was just fear of Putin that was behind Biden's incredibly slow response to the invasion of Ukraine but it sure seems like the problem is deeper than that. A lot of money is being moved around when if they really wanted Ukraine to win this war quickly it would be weapons that would be flowing in bigger quantities and quicker.

[bilo]

Nothing smart about it.  But that is exactly what they are doing.  And don't forget the UAE.  Biden screwed them over big time shortly after he took office, all because Trump worked out a peace deal between them and Israel.

The Abraham Accords are such a great step forward and of course Brandon is screwing it all up. The interesting thing about the Accords is they were worked out by a person with no govt. experience, kinda shows how bad the State Dept. is. 

[bilo]

2014.  2014.  Something significant happened that year.  What was it?

Oh yeah, I remember.  That was the year that Russia decided to invade Ukraine because their puppet got canned.

Russia started this war.  They own it.  The claim above is a lie.

Thank You for keeping the focus on the truth of it.

Russia is the invader. Russia is committing all kinds of atrocities. Russia is the cause of this war and Russia can end this war immediately by withdrawing from the sovereign territory of Ukraine that was recognized as such by Russia when Ukraine surrendered the nuclear missiles in it's territory.

[Hoodat]

Nope.. This one's on us.  We pushed for it for almost a decade-----  prodded, instigated, interfered, armed, inflamed, pissed on negotiations, expodentially accelerated it----- weakening our own military readiness and economic security in the process.

The historical record shows this to be patently false.  Every single bit of it.  On February 22, 2014, traitor (and Russian puppet) Viktor Yanukovych was driven from power.  Five days later, Russian troops crossed the Ukraine border.  That was over eight years ago.  So enough with the lies and bullshit.  You know this already.

If you think we've done this out of concern Russia is going to march through Europe or who's going to govern The Donbas in the outerbanks of The Borderland, or for "freedom",  think again ---- only this time think with a clear head from outside the Cold War box you're trapped in.

If I think we've done what, exactly?  Biden is blowing it, bigtime.  How many times do I have to say that?  What part do you not get?  Russia's entire army could have been wiped out on the roads between Kyiv and Belarus last March.  Yet Biden blocked every attempt to give Ukraine the firepower to do it.

And in case you haven't looked at a map lately, Kyiv isn't in Donbas.  Neither is Kharkiv, Lviv, Dniepro, Kherson, Zhaporizia, etc.  Yet all of these have been targeted by Russia.  This isn't a border war.  It is an attempt by Russia to take over Ukraine.  Putin's own words - 'They're just drug addicts and nazis'.

Putin is a bully.  And bullies won't stop until they get their asses kicked.  You want to bring up WWIII?  How about looking at the last war.  France in 1939, with the largest standing army and no German troops from Metz to Berlin, could have stopped WWII in its tracks.  But they took your advice instead.

[Kamaji]

The historical record shows this to be patently false.  Every single bit of it.  On February 22, 2014, traitor (and Russian puppet) Viktor Yanukovych was driven from power.  Five days later, Russian troops crossed the Ukraine border.  That was over eight years ago.  So enough with the lies and bullshit.  You know this already.


If I think we've done what, exactly?  Biden is blowing it, bigtime.  How many times do I have to say that?  What part do you not get?  Russia's entire army could have been wiped out on the roads between Kyiv and Belarus last March.  Yet Biden blocked every attempt to give Ukraine the firepower to do it.

And in case you haven't looked at a map lately, Kyiv isn't in Donbas.  Neither is Kharkiv, Lviv, Dniepro, Kherson, Zhaporizia, etc.  Yet all of these have been targeted by Russia.  This isn't a border war.  It is an attempt by Russia to take over Ukraine.  Putin's own words - 'They're just drug addicts and nazis'.

Putin is a bully.  And bullies won't stop until they get their asses kicked.  You want to bring up WWIII?  How about looking at the last war.  France in 1939, with the largest standing army and no German troops from Metz to Berlin, could have stopped WWII in its tracks.  But they took your advice instead.

Well said.

[Hoodat]

On Defense In Bakhmut, Ukrainian Forces Hit From All Sides

Maryan Kushnir  |  October 18, 2022  |  17:12 GMT

Soldiers with Ukraine's 30th Mechanized Brigade say they have been hit from all sides around the key Ukrainian city of Bakhmut. Russian forces have been making slow but steady progress in the area. RFE/RL's Maryan Kushnir was with the Ukrainian troops and has this report from one of the hottest zones in the war.

https://www.rferl.org/embed/player/0/32090013.html

https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-donbas-donetsk-bakhmut-war-russia-/32090013.html


Russia has been trying to take Bakhmut since the first week of July.

[Right_in_Virginia]

A rapid defeat of the Red Army (which Biden opposes) is the one thing that will prevent WW from happening. 

And if this were 1922 you might be right.

[Right_in_Virginia]

The historical record shows this to be patently false.  Every single bit of it.  On February 22, 2014, traitor (and Russian puppet) Viktor Yanukovych was driven from power.

Spend some time getting to know Victoria Nuland.  ---  Then gather the facts on the Orange Revolution, including its instigators and consequences.

2014 is also the year Hunter Biden was placed on the Board of Burisma - the largest natural gas producer in Ukraine.

Yup, 2014 --- probably ground zero for Biden's war with Russia.

[DB]

And if this were 1922 you might be right.

History isn't going to be kind to your posts here.

[Elderberry]

Ukraine lawmakers dig at Kremlin branding Chechnya 'Russian-occupied'

https://www.anews.com.tr/world/2022/10/18/ukraine-lawmakers-dig-at-kremlin-branding-chechnya-russian-occupied

A majority of Ukrainian lawmakers voted on Tuesday to back a resolution that "recognises the Chechen republic of Ichkeria as territory temporarily occupied by the Russian Federation as a result of armed aggression which contravened the UN's Statute".

Ukraine's parliament voted on Tuesday to declare the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria "temporarily Russian-occupied" land in a resolution certain to anger Moscow, which takes a zero-tolerance line on any talk of separatism inside its borders.

Ichkeria is the historical name of Russia's southern region of Chechnya that was devastated by two bloody wars between Russian troops and Chechen separatists after the 1991 breakup of the Soviet Union.

The Muslim-majority region is now headed by Ramzan Kadyrov, a former warlord who emerged out of the devastation and, backed by the Kremlin and huge financial support for Chechnya, now describes himself as a footsoldier of President Vladimir Putin.

More at link.

[Elderberry]

Russia facing accusations of taking children from Ukraine to 'live as Russians'

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/russia-is-taking-ukrainian-orphans-from-annexed-regions-and-raising-them-as-russians/p9h3gol0i

The Commissioner for Children’s Rights in Russia, who is reported to be ultimately responsible for the forced removal of children from occupied regions of Ukraine and their adoption in Russia, has been sanctioned by western countries, including Australia.

Russia is facing accusations of forcibly taking children from occupied regions of Ukraine to be raised in Russia, prompting concerns of cultural erasure.

According to a recent Associated Press (AP) investigation, Russia’s "open effort" to adopt Ukrainian children is well underway.

Thousands of children have been found in basements of war-torn cities such as Mariupol and at orphanages in the Russian-backed territories of Donbas.

Russia says that these children don't have parents or guardians to look after them, or that they can't be reached. But according to the AP, officials have deported children to Russia or Russian-held territories without their consent, have lied to them about their parents and given them Russian families and citizenship.

More at link.

[240B]

Russia is increasingly involving Russian Muslims and Muslim mercenaries from the Middle East in their war with Ukraine. Russia does not seem to comprehend that Russians from Moscow and Minsk are every bit as much "infidels" as are the Ukrainians. More than that, if Muslims from different sects show up on a battlefield at the same time, they are just as likely to fight each other as anyone else.

Involving Muslims in a Western war is a precarious gambit. They do not fight by 'civilized' standards, and their fanatical religion makes them impossible to control, even by their own loose command structure.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Biden is blowing it, bigtime.  How many times do I have to say that?  What part do you not get?  Russia's entire army could have been wiped out on the roads between Kyiv and Belarus last March.  Yet Biden blocked every attempt to give Ukraine the firepower to do it.

How many times do I have to say a protracted, expansive conflict is what Biden and Ukraine want?

[Right_in_Virginia]

History isn't going to be kind to your posts here.

Why not @DB ?

[Right_in_Virginia]