Author Topic: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago  (Read 61265 times)

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Offline roamer_1

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #750 on: August 10, 2022, 05:46:40 pm »
This ultimately comes down to the fourth branch of government.  Here in Georgia, we knew in April 2020 that the Secretary of State was violating the law.  We did nothing.  May?  Same thing.  June, July, August, September?  Same thing.  Then in October, the Secretary of State signed off on making changes to the code on all voting machines without recertifying - again in violation of State law.  And what did we do?  Nothing.

And then we have election day.  So far so good.  Yet in the days following election day, law after law after law was violated.  And we did nothing.  And because we did nothing, we allowed our Secretary of State to effectively select the winners of every election.  And there is nothing the State of Texas can do to change that.

In the end, that's right. Though the People still have their remedy - by disabusing those that took their power of their offices in the next election cycle.

Online Kamaji

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #751 on: August 10, 2022, 05:48:04 pm »
They could have photocopied the contents of each box within minutes.  Which allowed them plenty of time to break into an empty safe, rummage through Trump's personal effects, and sniff around Melania's closet.  Again, if they knew in advance the identity and location of what they were seeking, they could have wrapped that up within 30 min.  Not only that, the warrant would have been limited to that specific area based on the sworn affidavit of said informant.

The originals are the subject of the warrant, not photocopies.  And an inventory has to be done, which normally requires some sort of description of the documents. 

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #752 on: August 10, 2022, 05:54:56 pm »
Judges have a little wiggle room on the details they must have in a search warrant but not much.

If your search warrant says you're searching the bedroom and office of X at their residence Y for items related to Z you can't go snooping in the garage or any out buildings and "discover" something. Any evidence you find outside the scope of the warrant is inadmissible.

The cops would have to stop call the judge and get the building, car room etc added to the warrant to be able to lawfully search the new area.

Add to that the fact that the FBI lies to Judges & Magistrates all the time.  Just ask Carter Page.  They can get a warrant to search a ham sandwich.
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Offline libertybele

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #753 on: August 10, 2022, 05:55:33 pm »
Unless what they were looking for has nothing to do with Chain of Evidence and more about retrieving something Tumpy was holding over someone else...  :whistle:

Very probable.  He knows China owns Joe, he knows that Joe and Hunter were involved in Ukraine, and I would guess he probably knows a few things about the Clintons.  If he has (or now had) incriminating evidence he should have used it already. 

Fauci, Brix, Pelosi, Pence, and the swamp.  He knows very well what they've done and what they are doing.
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #754 on: August 10, 2022, 05:58:22 pm »
State sovereignty in federal elections is not absolute as it most decidedly affects other states.

Yes, in fact, it is.

Quote
Or does the US Constitution mean nothing to you?

It is the Constitution that I am relying upon.
The founders left NO remedy beyond or exceeding the state legislatures in their own sovereignty.
That firewall was very purposefully laid.

To breach it will have unintended consequences.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #755 on: August 10, 2022, 06:02:00 pm »
Very probable.  He knows China owns Joe, he knows that Joe and Hunter were involved in Ukraine, and I would guess he probably knows a few things about the Clintons.  If he has (or now had) incriminating evidence he should have used it already. 

Fauci, Brix, Pelosi, Pence, and the swamp.  He knows very well what they've done and what they are doing.

And he would be a fool to leave such things laying around the house... That they went looking seems an act of desperation.

But then, we won't know one way or another until that card gets played. If it can be played.  :shrug:

Offline Hoodat

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #756 on: August 10, 2022, 06:07:07 pm »
The originals are the subject of the warrant, not photocopies.  And an inventory has to be done, which normally requires some sort of description of the documents.

Photocopies ARE the inventory.  You hand the photocopies to the resident upon leaving.  The hard disk of the copier proves what was copied.  And the defendant knows exactly what was taken.  It is the best accounting one could possibly have.
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #757 on: August 10, 2022, 06:08:42 pm »
In the end, that's right. Though the People still have their remedy - by disabusing those that took their power of their offices in the next election cycle.

Which did not happen in this year's GOP Primary.  I'll be voting Libertarian in November.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

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"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

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Online catfish1957

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #758 on: August 10, 2022, 06:11:32 pm »
Melania better check her handbags and shoes when she gets back to make sure nothing is missing..some of her handbags cost over 30k...
I'd be more worried about what they added as far as tracking devices.
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Online Kamaji

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #759 on: August 10, 2022, 06:11:54 pm »
Photocopies ARE the inventory.  You hand the photocopies to the resident upon leaving.  The hard disk of the copier proves what was copied.  And the defendant knows exactly what was taken.  It is the best accounting one could possibly have.

That doesnt mean that that’s the only way to conduct an inventory.  Second, you have no idea how many documents there were, how they were bound, not whether there was a photocopier on site that could be used. 

Why build up all this silly speculation when the bottom line is this:  unless they seized proof positive that Trump gave the nuclear codes to the Russians or the Chinese, or something of equal import, this search was inexcusable and politically motivated?  The Obama administration engaged in similar shenanigans, as did Clinton, without any similar consequences whatsoever.  So if the basis for the search was that Trump failed to turn over some cocktail napkins on which the NK dictator had written, then it’s clear that the whole thing was politically motivated, even if the search was a textbook example of a proper search. 

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Offline txradioguy

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #761 on: August 10, 2022, 06:18:07 pm »
It is up to the Penn state legislature to hoe that row... and barring them, then the People of Penn must provide remedy. That's all there is.

Exactly.
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #762 on: August 10, 2022, 06:19:16 pm »
Which did not happen in this year's GOP Primary.  I'll be voting Libertarian in November.

And I don't blame you for that in the least. It's all that's left you.  :shrug:

Offline Hoodat

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #763 on: August 10, 2022, 06:24:32 pm »
Why build up all this silly speculation when the bottom line is this:  unless they seized proof positive that Trump gave the nuclear codes to the Russians or the Chinese, or something of equal import, this search was inexcusable and politically motivated?

My point goes beyond that.  Not only was it inexcusable and politically motivated.  It was highly personal.  They spent nine hours taking over complete possession of a private residence, 30+ people trespassing over highly personal areas for nine friggin' hours when they could have been in and out in 30 min.  And on top of that, they denied him personal counsel as well as denied him a video account of the search by intentionally disabling video equipment.  This was one big personal powerplay FU to Trump, and it was our own Justice Department that did it.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #764 on: August 10, 2022, 06:24:50 pm »
@txradioguy @Bigun

I get the sense that "stuff" is as specific as the current US Goobermint needs to come.

After all,their courts,their justices,their rules.

Yeah,you can appeal it and spend every dime you have getting lawyers to file briefs for years,but by the time you win on appeal and get the charges dropped,you will be broke and living in a State Farm for Fools and have a drip cut attached to your wheelchair.

I think you have a firm grasp of the situation @sneakypete
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #765 on: August 10, 2022, 06:26:30 pm »
I think you have a firm grasp of the situation @sneakypete

Don't underestimate @sneakypete .  He can be a freaking genius when he wants to be.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Online Bigun

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #766 on: August 10, 2022, 06:30:56 pm »
Obviously, the SCOTUS did not agree, @Bigun - And like I said before, I don't know the rules were changed in the middle of the game - As the sole author and arbiter, the state legislature would seem to be the ones to determine that... THEY would have standing - Not the state of Texas, or the SCOTUS. Their acquiescence is acceptance, as they are their own remedy.

And we need not beat this to death yet again.

I agree with your last sentence as IIRC this is something SCOTUS has agreed to take up in the fall. @roamer_1
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online Kamaji

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #767 on: August 10, 2022, 06:33:39 pm »
My point goes beyond that.  Not only was it inexcusable and politically motivated.  It was highly personal.  They spent nine hours taking over complete possession of a private residence, 30+ people trespassing over highly personal areas for nine friggin' hours when they could have been in and out in 30 min.  And on top of that, they denied him personal counsel as well as denied him a video account of the search by intentionally disabling video equipment.  This was one big personal powerplay FU to Trump, and it was our own Justice Department that did it.

I very seriously doubt they could have been in and out in 30 minutes.  I also doubt that a quickie raid would have been any the less threatening than a 9 hour raid, particularly given that Trump was not personally present at the time and was not restricted or limited during that time.

Online Bigun

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #768 on: August 10, 2022, 06:34:07 pm »
In the case of Pennsylvania they weren't the sole arbiter though. Mark Elias and the AG for the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania...who is running for Governor by the way...circumvented the state and federal constitution in this instance.

You are 100% correct @txradioguy
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online Bigun

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #769 on: August 10, 2022, 06:36:53 pm »
It has to adequately describe the evidence being sought for.

Yes! And EVERYTHING that is removed has to be cataloged and the subject given a receipt.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online Kamaji

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #770 on: August 10, 2022, 06:37:26 pm »
Yes! And EVERYTHING that is removed has to be cataloged and the subject given a receipt.

Yes.

Online Bigun

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #771 on: August 10, 2022, 06:39:09 pm »
It depends on whether they did a full inventory on-site and how long it took to do the inventory.  If they pulled each document out of those 15 boxes and wrote a description of each, then it could very well have taken 9 hours or so.

ALL of the reporting I have seen thus far says that they did not do that! They took boxes they hadn't even opened.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline roamer_1

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #772 on: August 10, 2022, 06:43:23 pm »
My point goes beyond that.  [...] This was one big personal powerplay FU to Trump, and it was our own Justice Department that did it.

That's right - But I bet there is a purpose beyond that... He has something he can put in play... And somebody wants it. Probably to remove it from play. Or something like that.

Obviously they were not concerned with legalities. So there is another motive outside of legalities.

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #773 on: August 10, 2022, 06:44:44 pm »
Add to that the fact that the FBI lies to Judges & Magistrates all the time.  Just ask Carter Page.  They can get a warrant to search a ham sandwich.

Every hear the phrase "Fruit of the poison tree"?
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online Kamaji

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #774 on: August 10, 2022, 06:47:20 pm »
ALL of the reporting I have seen thus far says that they did not do that! They took boxes they hadn't even opened.

I'm not seeing anything that states or implies that.