Ukraine 2

[DefiantMassRINO]

The Ukrainians are laying down their lives to defend their country.

Have the Poles been allowed to give their Russian-made fighters to Ukraine, yet?

If Ukraine fails to expel Russia from its pre-2014 borders, it's because the West made them fight with one hand behind their backs and valued cheap Russian energy more than Ukrainian victory.

Western European nations are run by weak, stupid, socialists, ignorant of history's lessons.

Eastern Europeans nations' interests are more closely aligned with America's than those of other NATO members, like Germany, France, Italy, Greece, and Turkey.

[libertybele]

After First Ukrainian Grain Ship Leaves Port, Erdogan and Putin to Meet Over Black Sea Initiative

 The first ship carrying Ukrainian grain to be able to leave the country since Russia’s invasion began safely departed this week, under a Turkish- and U.N.-brokered agreement designed to resolve a problem blamed for contributing to a global food crisis.

Russian President Vladimir Putin and Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan are scheduled to meet in Sochi on Friday to “synchronize” the operation, Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov confirmed.

The state-owned TASS news service quoted Peskov as saying the meeting would be a “good opportunity to compare notes on the effectiveness of the mechanism for the export of grain from Ukrainian ports – to take a look at how effectively it works,” as well as “to exchange opinions on world affairs.”

News of the planned meeting comes a day after the first ship departed Odesa, Ukraine’s largest port, carrying 26,527 tons of corn destined for Tripoli, Lebanon.

The vessel, the MV Razoni, was set to arrive Wednesday off Turkey’s coast, where it will be inspected by Russian, Turkish, Ukrainian and U.N. officials, according to Turkey’s defense ministry.

Under the recently-signed agreement, Russia wants ships inspected to ensure they are not used – especially when returning empty to Ukraine – to transport weapons that could be deployed in Ukraine’s defense against the Russian military offensive...........

https://www.cnsnews.com/index.php/article/international/james-carstensen/after-first-ukrainian-grain-ship-leaves-port-erdogan-and

[sneakypete]

I think you may be confusing human nature with what someone is taught @sneakypete  You and your generation were taught ---- with every news report, every spy novel, every movie, every TV show ---- about the evils of the Soviets.  Back between the 50s and 70s this was likely in our best geopolitical interest.

Then came Ronald Reagan and the slaying of the Soviet Union and comminism in Europe ---- without firing a single shot  ----  ushering in one of the most consequential global paradigm shifts of the 20th Century.   We, as a nation, are still struggling to come to terms with it.

@Right_in_Virginia

Despite all the evidence to the contrary,you really do believe all that crap,don't you?

I think it is best if you and I quit posting to each other on this subject.

[Smokin Joe]

I think you may be confusing human nature with what someone is taught @sneakypete  You and your generation were taught ---- with every news report, every spy novel, every movie, every TV show ---- about the evils of the Soviets.  Back between the 50s and 70s this was likely in our best geopolitical interest.

Then came Ronald Reagan and the slaying of the Soviet Union and comminism in Europe ---- without firing a single shot  ----  ushering in one of the most consequential global paradigm shifts of the 20th Century.   We, as a nation, are still struggling to come to terms with it.

Wait, whoa. You're saying the people who gunned down the Romanovs, and proceeded to slaughter more of their Countrymen than Hitler racked up are just nice folks who are misunderstood because they spent my formative years and beyond pointing nuclear weapons at us?
Communism has never flourished so well as it has since it was pronounced dead.
Just look at the crap coming out of Washington, D.C. and try flying that past America of circa 1965. McCarthy was right, and every facet of American culture has been subtly infused with Communist (Marxist) rhetoric to the point that those doing it are comfortable with pulling aside the wrapper and exposing the source of their philosophies.

Go back and read the 45 Communist Goals from 1963 and tell me what's left to accomplish.

With a former KGB Colonel at the helm, do you think anything has changed much besides the wrapper? Even China and the CCP maintain a facade of Capitalistic behaviour to loot the intellectual properties of other nations, build their war chest and manufacturing base, and diminish the economic and industrial bases of their rivals. In the Third World, they just blatantly bribe those in power, and treat the population like peasants, right down to child labor.

Take the rose colored glasses off.

[sneakypete]

To this end @sneakypete your time just might be better spent focusng on Klaus Schwab and Joe Biden.

@Right_in_Virginia

Right. Remind me now many nuclear weapons they possess,and delivery vehicles to fire them.

[Cyber Liberty]

By whom @Cyber Liberty ?

I can't recall exactly.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Wait, whoa. You're saying the people who gunned down the Romanovs, and proceeded to slaughter more of their Countrymen than Hitler racked up are just nice folks who are misunderstood because they spent my formative years and beyond pointing nuclear weapons at us?

Of course not @Smokin Joe  ..... and you know it.   I never said that, not even by innuendo.

Communism has never flourished so well as it has since it was pronounced dead.

In Europe? (Don't tell Hungary or Poland)

Just look at the crap coming out of Washington, D.C. and try flying that past America of circa 1965. McCarthy was right, and every facet of American culture has been subtly infused with Communist (Marxist) rhetoric to the point that those doing it are comfortable with pulling aside the wrapper and exposing the source of their philosophies.

Are you finally admitting it's time for the US to take its focus off Europe and put it fully where it belongs:  On the US?   Or are you still fully behind Biden leading this nation into the dustbin of history ----- you know because of The Ukraine or Russia or wheat or something?  Are you anxiously awaiting the tossing of Joe's next shiny object, or can this one hold you for a while?

Take the rose colored glasses off.

Physician, heal thyself ---- I'm not the one skipping behind Joe Biden.

[Smokin Joe]

@Right_in_Virginia

Skipping behind Joe Biden?

You mean the guy who has been attacking the industry that I work in since day one in office?

Are you just being a shit or are you out of your bleep mind?

[Mod2]

Tone it down. The topic is not other TBR members.

[sneakypete]

Of course not @Smokin Joe  ..... and you know it.   I never said that, not even by innuendo.

In Europe? (Don't tell Hungary or Poland)

Are you finally admitting it's time for the US to take its focus off Europe and put it fully where it belongs:  On the US?  Or are you still fully behind Biden leading this nation into the dustbin of history ----- you know because of The Ukraine or Russia or wheat or something?  Are you anxiously awaiting the tossing of Joe's next shiny object, or can this one hold you for a while?

Physician, heal thyself ---- I'm not the one skipping behind Joe Biden.

@Right_in_Virginia

What's it like living in a vacuum?

[Hoodat]

By whom @Cyber Liberty ?

https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,468874.msg2684608.html#msg2684608

[Hoodat]

I think you may be confusing human nature with what someone is taught @sneakypete  You and your generation were taught ---- with every news report, every spy novel, every movie, every TV show ---- about the evils of the Soviets.  Back between the 50s and 70s this was likely in our best geopolitical interest.

This has zero relevance to what is going on in Ukraine right now.  But then you knew that already.

[Right_in_Virginia]

@Right_in_Virginia

What's it like living in a vacuum?

I think it's best if you honor your own advice @sneakypete    Thanks.

@Right_in_Virginia

I think it is best if you and I quit posting to each other on this subject.

[DefiantMassRINO]

Communism is not dead.  In the Industrial Age it disguised itself as a workers rights movement.

In the post-Industrial Age, Communism disguises itself as Environment Activism.

It's difficult to advance a political ideaology if they transparently let it be know that there aim was to enslave the governed.  To move it forward, they need to advance as a greater benevolent, international movement - such as Global Climate Change - to benefit the greater good.  With each step or advance, they further weaken their political enemies and eliminate poltical competitors on their rise to establish an international dictatorship.

[Hoodat]

Bullies and tyrants go by many different names.

[Cyber Liberty]

I hope I don't have to lock this thread.....

j/s

[Hoodat]

@Hoodat  @Right_in_Virginia

Not only that,but the Soviets WERE evil.

So are the Neo-Soviets of today.

Exactly, @sneakypete

I don't oppose Russia because they were in the past evil Soviet communists.  I oppose Russia because they are evil now today.

[sneakypete]

Exactly, @sneakypete

I don't oppose Russia because they were in the past evil Soviet communists.  I oppose Russia because they are evil now today.

@Hoodat

I have been to Russia on vacation a couple of times,and it SEEMS to me that the typical Russian was no fan of Communism,but it's not like they had a choice,so they played along.

As one typical sarcastic joke went,"We pretend to work,and they pretend to pay us."

It seems like nobody was fooled,but the typical Russian subject had no choice but to play along because they owned nothing. The state owned where they lived,as well as where they worked,and if they pissed some bureaucrat or cop off,they could instantly find themselves unemployed and homeless,and both were illegal. Meaning it was off to a labor camp for the whole family.

BTW,I only encountered hostility ONCE in two trips of over a month,and that was from a old WW-2 vet dripping with medals on his suit jacket in the Moscow Subway.

What was remarkable to me was it was so obvious that everybody else in the subway car seemed to be embarrassed at his outburst. He SEEMED to be trying to get the other passengers to join him,and all they would do would be to look off or down at the floor. I could actually see a couple of women blushing from embarrassment.

Truth to tell,if they guy hadn't been an old and feeble "Great Patriotic War Hero",I think at a minimum some would have told him to shut up.

[Elderberry]

Russian ceasefire and troop pullout must precede any talks, says Ukraine

https://newsinfo.inquirer.net/1640677/russian-ceasefire-and-troop-pullout-must-precede-any-talks-says-ukraine

Ukraine on Wednesday dismissed comments by former German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder that Russia wanted a “negotiated solution” to the war and said any dialogue would be contingent on a Russian ceasefire and withdrawal of its troops.

Schroeder, a friend of Russian President Vladimir Putin and increasingly derided in Germany for his pro-Russia stance, said last month’s agreement on grain shipments from Ukraine, aimed at easing a global food crisis, might offer a way forward.

The first grain ship since the war began more than five months ago passed through the Bosphorus Strait on Wednesday en route to Lebanon.

“The good news is that the Kremlin wants a negotiated solution,” Schroeder told Stern weekly and broadcasters RTL/ntv, adding he had met Putin in Moscow last week. “A first success is the grain deal, perhaps that can be slowly expanded to a ceasefire.”

In response, Ukrainian presidential adviser Mykhailo Podolyak described Schroeder as a “voice of the Russian royal court” and made clear that the grain agreement would not lead to broader negotiations.

“If Moscow wants dialogue, the ball is in its court. First — a cease-fire and withdrawal of troops, then — constructive (dialogue),” Podolyak wrote on Twitter.

In a video address on Wednesday night, Ukrainian President Volodymr Zelenskiy also responded bitterly to the notion of talks with Russia.

“It is simply disgusting when former leaders of major states with European values work for Russia, which is at war against these values,” Zelenskiy said.

More at link.

[Hoodat]

Russian soldiers accuse superiors of jailing them for refusing to fight

Rare public comments expose tensions inside the ranks of Russia’s army over the invasion of Ukraine

Pjotr Sauer  |  2 Aug 2022  |  10.00 EDT


The Russian army and the People's Militia of the Luhansk People's Republic [who wear Nazi SS Totenkopf insignia on their uniforms] on a mission in Ukraine. Photograph: AP

A group of Russian soldiers have accused their commanders of jailing them in eastern Ukraine for refusing to take part in the war, in a rare public exposure of tensions inside the ranks of Russia’s army over the invasion.

Maxim Grebenyuk, a lawyer who runs the Moscow-based advocacy organisation Military Ombudsman, said at least four Russian soldiers had filed written complaints with the investigative committee, demanding punishment for the superiors who oversaw their detainment.

“We already have a list of 70 Russian soldiers who were held as prisoners. In total, about 140 soldiers were held,” added Grebenyuk, who represented the soldiers.

In one written testimony sent to Russian prosecutors on 1 August and reviewed by the Guardian, a soldier described how, after refusing to return to the battlefield, he was jailed for more than a week in different cells in the Russian-controlled territory of Luhansk.

“As a result of what I believe were tactical and strategic mistakes made by my commanders … and their total disregard for human life … I made the decision not to continue in the military operation,” said Vladimir, a soldier whose name has been changed at his request.

Vladimir said he was detained on 19 July and placed in a room with window bars where he was held without food with 25 other soldiers from his unit who also refused to fight.  .  .  .

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/02/russian-soldiers-accuse-superiors-of-jailing-them-for-refusing-to-fight

[Kamaji]

Russian soldiers accuse superiors of jailing them for refusing to fight

Rare public comments expose tensions inside the ranks of Russia’s army over the invasion of Ukraine

Pjotr Sauer  |  2 Aug 2022  |  10.00 EDT


The Russian army and the People's Militia of the Luhansk People's Republic [who wear Nazi SS Totenkopf insignia on their uniforms] on a mission in Ukraine. Photograph: AP

A group of Russian soldiers have accused their commanders of jailing them in eastern Ukraine for refusing to take part in the war, in a rare public exposure of tensions inside the ranks of Russia’s army over the invasion.

Maxim Grebenyuk, a lawyer who runs the Moscow-based advocacy organisation Military Ombudsman, said at least four Russian soldiers had filed written complaints with the investigative committee, demanding punishment for the superiors who oversaw their detainment.

“We already have a list of 70 Russian soldiers who were held as prisoners. In total, about 140 soldiers were held,” added Grebenyuk, who represented the soldiers.

In one written testimony sent to Russian prosecutors on 1 August and reviewed by the Guardian, a soldier described how, after refusing to return to the battlefield, he was jailed for more than a week in different cells in the Russian-controlled territory of Luhansk.

“As a result of what I believe were tactical and strategic mistakes made by my commanders … and their total disregard for human life … I made the decision not to continue in the military operation,” said Vladimir, a soldier whose name has been changed at his request.

Vladimir said he was detained on 19 July and placed in a room with window bars where he was held without food with 25 other soldiers from his unit who also refused to fight.  .  .  .

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/02/russian-soldiers-accuse-superiors-of-jailing-them-for-refusing-to-fight

Say it ain't so!!  I thought that only the Ukrainians were neo-nazis.

[Cyber Liberty]

So the soldiers are being punished for insubordination?  Aren't they supposed to be for disobeying orders to deploy?

I don't understand why this is even a story...

[Hoodat]

Say it ain't so!!  I thought that only the Ukrainians were neo-nazis.

Correction, it was the DPR, not the LPR.  My bad.  Here is Donetsk Peoples Republic leader Denis Pushilin giving out medals for killing Ukrainian solders.

[Hoodat]

So the soldiers are being punished for insubordination?  Aren't they supposed to be for disobeying orders to deploy?

I don't understand why this is even a story...

They are being denied due process.  Also, under Russian law, conscripts cannot be placed in combat roles.

[Cyber Liberty]

They are being denied due process.  Also, under Russian law, conscripts cannot be placed in combat roles.

Ah!  Gotcha.  Russia shoots deserters on the spot, so it surprises me there's due process at all.