Ukraine 2

[Kamaji]

Really???

Unbelievable.

[240B]

The NSA should be fired on the spot.  This is the most secretive agency in government, and here is the director blabbing about what the US is doing to a country we are officially not in conflict with.  The sheer incompetence of this regime is stunning to watch on display multiple times each day, every day.

This is not an 'accident' or a 'goof up'. The Biden and his Biden Administration along with Democrats in Congress have been openly promoting and advancing a full on 'hot war' with Russia for over a year. It is not incompetence. It is their strategy and their goal. Biden and the Democrats are desperate for a World War to distract and take the blame for their endless war on all things American.

[sneakypete]

This is not an 'accident' or a 'goof up'. The Biden and his Biden Administration along with Democrats in Congress have been openly promoting and advancing a full on 'hot war' with Russia for over a year. It is not incompetence. It is their strategy and their goal. Biden and the Democrats are desperate for a World War to distract and take the blame for their endless war on all things American.

@240B

I agree. Normally,I would argue that "NOBODY is so freaking stupid they are willing to start a World War in order to remain in office",but not in this case. These retards not only don't have a single rational thought in what passes for their minds,I now have no doubt there is NOTHING they won't do to remain in power.

COMPLETELY freaking amoral,every single damn one of them.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Really???

Yes, really @DB   Go back to 2014 and the official start of this conflict, reexamine how Ukraine has been used in US politics since then, fold in the incremental and vocal threat of NATO and, lastly, retrace how the US led Western powers orchestrated the escalation in 2022.

Ukraine freedom from Russian aggression was the propaganda milk bottle fed to Western do-gooders to gain their support for getting involved in
another border conflict without them asking "why?".   And, for the most part it's worked.

[bilo]

This is not an 'accident' or a 'goof up'. The Biden and his Biden Administration along with Democrats in Congress have been openly promoting and advancing a full on 'hot war' with Russia for over a year. It is not incompetence. It is their strategy and their goal. Biden and the Democrats are desperate for a World War to distract and take the blame for their endless war on all things American.

You are giving them too much credit. They are not that bright.

The Brandon admn are a bunch of faculty lounge leftists. They are married to an ideology that they will not deviate from. They are truly dangerous because they are dumb smart people.
 
The admn consists of people living in a bubble with no practical real life experience. They don't see moral hazards in what they do, or don't do. They don't know how to head off a crisis. In the case of Russia's invasion of Ukraine the moral hazard was the collapse of Afghanistan. Putin saw how incompetent and weak Biden is and decided it was time to take what he wanted. It didn't happen because of some great scheme of a bunch of brilliant tacticians.

The war would never have happened under Trump because he would never have allowed Afghanistan to collapse the way it did. Trump has real life experience and adapts as he pursues the goals he wants to accomplish.

[Hoodat]

and, lastly, retrace how the US led Western powers orchestrated the escalation in 2022.

Please explain how the US led Western powers orchestrated Russia to invade Ukraine and begin the systematic destruction of Ukraine cities, the wholesale massacre of civilians, the rapes, the murders, etc.

[sneakypete]

Please explain how the US led Western powers orchestrated Russia to invade Ukraine and begin the systematic destruction of Ukraine cities, the wholesale massacre of civilians, the rapes, the murders, etc.

@Hoodat @Right_in_Virginia

Can't wait to read her "Russian,good,US EVIL!" explanation.

Or maybe she will just sum it up by posting,"Better Red than Dead!"?

[Elderberry]

Enemy collaborator, appointed “Zaporizhia governor,” begs to be transferred to Crimea

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3499663-enemy-collaborator-appointed-zaporizhia-governor-begs-to-be-transferred-to-crimea.html

The so-called "governor" of Zaporizhia region, Yevhen Balytsky, asked the invasion forces to allow him to rule the occupied territory from Crimea.

This was announced on Telegram by the head of the public council at the Odesa Regional Military Administration, Serhiy Bratchuk, Ukrinform reports.

“Collaborator Yevhen Balytsky asked to be transferred to Crimea. The Melitopol traitor, whom the Russian media refer to as ‘governor’ of Zaporizhia region, begged to move to Crimea along with his deputies. He explained his request by saying that he could easily ‘manage’ the region from there. Obviously, Balytsky fears for his life after a series of attempts by Melitopol guerillas,” the official wrote.

More at link.

[DB]

Yes, really @DB   Go back to 2014 and the official start of this conflict, reexamine how Ukraine has been used in US politics since then, fold in the incremental and vocal threat of NATO and, lastly, retrace how the US led Western powers orchestrated the escalation in 2022.

Ukraine freedom from Russian aggression was the propaganda milk bottle fed to Western do-gooders to gain their support for getting involved in
another border conflict without them asking "why?".   And, for the most part it's worked.

You are so full of crap...

[sneakypete]

You are so full of crap...

@DB

No kidding. "Better Red than Dead" pretty much sums it up.

[libertybele]

You are so full of crap...

The conflict between Ukraine and Russia did begin to escalate in 2014 (with U.S. involvement).



Mr Obama described Mr Poroshenko in early June as a "wise selection" for leader of Ukraine

Interestingly Poroshenko was elected as president in an election not held in much of the east.
 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-26248275

[libertybele]

For Immediate Release
December 09, 2015
Remarks by Vice President Joe Biden to The Ukrainian Rada

The Rada

Kyiv, Ukraine

11:58 A.M. (Local)

THE VICE PRESIDENT:  Thank you.  What a great honor for me to be able to represent my country before such an august audience.

Mr. President, Mr. Prime Minister, Mr. Chairman, members of the Rada, ladies and gentlemen, I am deeply honored to be invited to speak to you today at a moment marked by great opportunity, as well as great uncertainty for the people of Ukraine.  The stakes for your country and the expectations of your people have never been higher because Ukraine, as you know better than I, has been here before.

In the West, as here we remember, the Orange Revolution -- young men and women who filled the Maidan a decade ago demanding that their voices and their votes both be respected.  They refused to back down in the face of rigged elections, and they succeeded.

But as history tells us and shows, and as we know, Ukraine’s leaders proved incapable of delivering on the promise of democratic revolution.  We saw reforms put in place only to be rolled back.  We saw oligarchs uninterested in change ousted from power only to return.  Reformers persecuted, thrown in prison as political retribution.  And the bright flame of hope for a new Ukraine snuffed out by the pervasive poison of cronyism, corruption, and kleptocracy.

Nearly a decade later, that flame of hope was reignited by thousands of brave Ukrainians, some of you in this room, storming the Maidan, demanding a Revolution of Dignity.  The world was transfixed.  This time they were not going to be denied the future that so many of your country have longed for, for so long.

And the world was horrified when peaceful patriots were met by violence.  They stayed at the Maidan day and night, facing down the Berkut in riot gear.  For the first time since the Middle Ages, the bells of St. Mary [*sic] raised the alarm, calling the citizens of Ukraine to reinforce their brothers and sisters on the Maidan.  Tens of thousands heeded the call bringing with them food, clothing, blankets, medical supplies, and their support.  As the world watched -- and I was literally on the phone with your former President urging restraint -- as the world watched, the final assault came.  Amidst fire and ice, snipers on rooftops, the Heavenly Hundred paid the ultimate price of patriots the world over.  Their blood and courage delivering to the Ukrainian people a second chance for freedom.  Their sacrifice -- to put it bluntly -- is now your obligation..................

https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/2015/12/09/remarks-vice-president-joe-biden-ukrainian-rada

[DCPatriot]

The conflict between Ukraine and Russia did begin to escalate in 2014 (with U.S. involvement).

The fact this photo even exists tells me everything I need to know about Ukraine's thorough corruption.

After all, the money to purchase...demolish Magnum P.I.'s Hawaiian mansion and then build a new and improved version has to come from someplace.

[libertybele]

It was the Ukranians that ended the Minsk Agreement.

Termination

On 19 September 2018, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko signed a decree not to extend the treaty. On 3 December 2018, Poroshenko drafted a legislation to Parliament to end the Treaty of Friendship immediately; with support coming from Western allies within the United Nations Security Council. According to Poroshenko the non-renewal "does not require a vote" in the Ukrainian parliament. Ukraine announced that on 21 September 2018, it would notify the United Nations and other relevant organizations on the termination of the treaty. Russia's Ministry of Foreign Affairs said that it was notified on 24 September 2018 of the treaty's termination by Ukraine, expressing regret.

On 3 December 2018 Poroshenko did submit a bill on the termination of the treaty to parliament; 277 MPs supported the termination of the treaty, while 20 legislators voted against it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian%E2%80%93Ukrainian_Friendship_Treaty

[DB]

It was the Ukranians that ended the Minsk Agreement.

Termination

On 19 September 2018, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko signed a decree not to extend the treaty. On 3 December 2018, Poroshenko drafted a legislation to Parliament to end the Treaty of Friendship immediately; with support coming from Western allies within the United Nations Security Council. According to Poroshenko the non-renewal "does not require a vote" in the Ukrainian parliament. Ukraine announced that on 21 September 2018, it would notify the United Nations and other relevant organizations on the termination of the treaty. Russia's Ministry of Foreign Affairs said that it was notified on 24 September 2018 of the treaty's termination by Ukraine, expressing regret.

On 3 December 2018 Poroshenko did submit a bill on the termination of the treaty to parliament; 277 MPs supported the termination of the treaty, while 20 legislators voted against it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian%E2%80%93Ukrainian_Friendship_Treaty

Because the Russians invaded their country years before in total violation of the agreement.

Why do we have to rehash these lies over and over?

[Right_in_Virginia]

Because the Russians invaded their country years before in total violation of the agreement.

Why do we have to rehash these lies over and over?

Because you keep posting them. 

[DCPatriot]

Because you keep posting them.

 

[libertybele]

Because the Russians invaded their country years before in total violation of the agreement.

Why do we have to rehash these lies over and over?

Lies? Just posting the facts and the fact still remains that the agreement was terminated by the Ukrainians.  The fact still remains that the conflict between Russia and Ukraine has been on going.  The fact still remains that under the Joe administration this conflict has escalated substantially with Joe giving billion and billions in aid to Ukraine.

No, I am not choosing sides.  Anyone that thinks the Joe is squeaky-clean in all of this needs to consider he was involved in all of this mess before he became president.  Sorry, I just don't see Joe miraculously stealing an election and this conflict escalating while Ukraine receives billions in U.S. aid as coincidental.

[bilo]

Because the Russians invaded their country years before in total violation of the agreement.

Why do we have to rehash these lies over and over?

Because they have nothing else.

[bilo]

Lies? Just posting the facts and the fact still remains that the agreement was terminated by the Ukrainians.  The fact still remains that the conflict between Russia and Ukraine has been on going. The fact still remains that under the Joe administration this conflict has escalated substantially with Joe giving billion and billions in aid to Ukraine.

No, I am not choosing sides.  Anyone that thinks the Joe is squeaky-clean in all of this needs to consider he was involved in all of this mess before he became president.  Sorry, I just don't see Joe miraculously stealing an election and this conflict escalating while Ukraine receives billions in U.S. aid as coincidental.

So you would expect a country that has already been invaded to continue an agreement with the invading country that proclaims their borders will be honored by the invading country. You should be working for the State Dept.!

[libertybele]

Because they have nothing else.

The demographics of Ukraine; according to the census result the population of the Crimean Federal District is 2.2844 million people. The ethnic composition is as follows: Russians: 1.49 million (65.3%), Ukrainians: 0.35 million (15.1%), Crimean Tatars: 0.24 million (12.0%).

[DB]

The demographics of Ukraine; according to the census result the population of the Crimean Federal District is 2.2844 million people. The ethnic composition is as follows: Russians: 1.49 million (65.3%), Ukrainians: 0.35 million (15.1%), Crimean Tatars: 0.24 million (12.0%).

Oh, so Mexico gets Texas back because a large number of Latinos live there. Is that how that works?

[libertybele]

Oh, so Mexico gets Texas back because a large number of Latinos live there. Is that how that works?

No, Mexico and Texas have nothing to do with Ukraine. 

So, we'll just displace all the Russians in the area?? I can't help but wonder how many of those Russians were 'attacked' over the years by Ukraine? 

Again, not picking sides, just thinking of the innocent people that are caught up in an obviously very political and ugly war that has  been going on for years. Also, again, Joe is far from innocent.

[Elderberry]

Enemy tongue: eastern Ukrainians reject their Russian birth language

The Guardian by Shaun Walker 6/4/2022

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/04/enemy-tongue-eastern-ukrainians-reject-their-russian-birth-language

In towns near Russia’s border, Moscow’s influence was strong and Ukrainian was rarely spoken. The war has changed that

Gamlet Zinkivskyi grew up speaking Russian in the city of Kharkiv, just like his parents. But when Vladimir Putin launched the invasion of Ukraine on 24 February, it was the final push for him to switch fully to Ukrainian.

“Unfortunately, I grew up speaking Russian, but it’s not pleasant to speak the same language as the army that is destroying whole areas of our country,” said Zinkivskyi, a 35-year-old street artist widely known to Kharkiv residents, who usually refer to him by his first name.

The switch of language is part of a broader journey towards a more pronounced Ukrainian identity for Zinkivskyi, something shared by many in the largely Russian-speaking areas of east and south Ukraine. It is a process which has become more pronounced in the past three months, but it has been brewing for some years.

As a young artist, Zinkivskyi had a longstanding dream: an exhibition in Moscow. Kharkiv is just a few dozen miles from the border with Russia and has long been almost entirely Russian-speaking. Culturally, Moscow felt like the centre of the universe. But when Zinkivskyi finally made it to a gallery there in 2012, he was horrified. “They were obnoxious and patronising about Kharkiv and Ukraine, and frankly I thought: bleep them,” he said. He returned to Kharkiv and became more focused on the Ukrainian art scene.

After the annexation of Crimea, in 2014, Zinkivskyi started trying to speak some Ukrainian with a few friends. Now he has fully switched, and for the first time is also introducing political and patriotic themes into his art.

The language issue is something that comes up again and again in Kharkiv. Oleksandra Panchenko, a 22-year-old interior designer, said that since 2014 she had been trying hard to improve her Ukrainian, but conceded that she still often speaks Russian with friends.

However, she is adamant that by the time she has children, she will be fluent enough to speak only Ukrainian at home. “I grew up in a Russian-language family, my kids will grow up in a Ukrainian-language family,” she said.

Back in 2014, there were separatist rumblings in Kharkiv, with some people looking to the swift annexation of Crimea and wondering if all of eastern Ukraine might not be better off inside Russia. But eight years of observing the miserable conditions in the Russian proxy states of Donetsk and Luhansk dampened those feelings, and Russia’s invasion has almost entirely extinguished them.

Panchenko, who has painted her nails blue and yellow and describes herself as a staunch patriot, made a guess at the political allegiances of Kharkiv residents before the war, based on her broad circle of acquaintances. About 10% of the city used to be what are disparagingly known as vatniki – aggressively pro-Russian – she said. She described 30% as being like her, “Ukraine, Ukraine, Ukraine”, and 50% were “neutral – they felt Ukrainian but not that strongly”.

Russia’s war on Ukraine has pushed people in this neutral category more firmly into the patriotic camp, creating a much broader and more passionate pro-Ukrainian base than ever existed previously, particularly in the east of the country.

“There were a lot of neutral people here, but as soon as it came to the war, a lot of them decided to fight,” said Vsevolod Kozhemyako, a businessman who runs an agricultural company and once featured on the Forbes list of the 100 richest Ukrainians.

More at link.

[sneakypete]

No, Mexico and Texas have nothing to do with Ukraine. 

So, we'll just displace all the Russians in the area??

@libertybele

You DO know that 65 percent of the Ukrainian population are ethnic Russians,right? If the ethnic Ukrainians were to deport them (and they ain't),who would they have to help them rebuild the nation,work the necessary jobs that every modern society needs done,HELP THEM RESIST ANY FUTURE RUSSIAN INVASIONS,pay taxes,etc,etc,etc?

And this ain't even addressing the undisputed FACT that there is and always has been a LOT of intermarriages/poking fun between the native Ukrainians and the Russians who moved there. I am GUESSING,but MY best guess is the vast majority of the ethnic Russians who live in Ukraine consider themselves to be Ukrainians.

Who the HELL do you think are the ethnic majority that are helping the Ukrainians fight against the invaders?

I can't help but wonder how many of those Russians were 'attacked' over the years by Ukraine? 

Then you need help of the type you aren't going to get on a chat board.

After all,you have 35 percent of the population attacking and dominating 65 percent of the population. Ponder that little factoid for a while.

Also,consider the FACT  that American military members are from damn near every ethnic group on the planet. One of the early VN heroes that went missing in action VERY early in the war was originally a Finnish Army officer who fought against the Russian invasion of Finland,and once Finland was conquered,he escaped to Germany and enlisted in the German Army as a Private so he could continue to fight the Russians,rising to the rank of Captain in the Waffen SS by the end of the war. When WW-2 ended he immigrated to the US to join the American Army as a private so he could continue to fight the Russians/Communism.

He went missing in action as a Special Forces Captain that was overseeing the insertion of a covert action team into North Vietnam or northern Laos early in the war. The Helicopter he was flying in was one of the old Kingbees that folded so it could be stored under the deck of Aircraft Carriers,and according to witnesses,it just came apart in the air in North Vietnam,and no bodies were recovered until a few years ago.

His (American) name was Larry Thorne. Look him up.

Another "foreigner" in SF was a friend of mine who was born in Japan during WW-2,and became an orphan when both his parents died during one of the fire-bombings of Tokyo. He and his two sisters were sent to an orphanage,and he was adopted by European diplomat,and went to Europe to live a couple of years later when his new father was reassigned. They eventually moved to the US when he was 16 or 17,and he enlisted in the US Army when he was 17. He retired from the US Army as a Master Sergeant E-8,and the NCOIC of the Special Forces Scuba Committee in Florida,after receiving at least one Silver Star while in VN,as well as a couple of Purple Hearts while working with Delta Project.

When you get right down to it,most Americans have roots in other nations. For the most part,"foreigners" are the very people who made America great.

 

Again, not picking sides, just thinking of the innocent people that are caught up in an obviously very political and ugly war that has  been going on for years.

Name ONE war that the same can't be truthfully said. The ONLY people that want wars are fools and greedy opportunists who expect to get rich(er) from the war.

Also, again, Joe is far from innocent.

He is a prize-winning fool,as well as a career thief and traitor to America,but his only involvement in the War in Ukraine came long after the war started,and even then it was only to get a cut of the money going there. Truth to tell,he should be arrested for treason,put on trial,and executed when found guilty. 

Which really has nothing to do with Russia invading Ukraine.