Ukraine 2

[Hoodat]

Mariupol: The 80 days that left a flourishing city in ruins

Paul Adams in London and Hugo Bachega - BBC, Dnipro  |  17 hours ago


The theatre has often been described as the heart of the city

After almost three months of relentless assault, Mariupol has fallen. Ukraine's military says its combat mission in the besieged port is over. More than any other Ukrainian city, Mariupol has come to symbolise the ferocious brutality of Russia's assault and the stubbornness of Ukraine's resistance.

On Wednesday 23 February, Ivan Stanislavsky left his camera bag at the office. He was on his way to see the layout of his new book on Mariupol's Soviet-era murals at a colleague's house, and didn't want to lug the gear around. He could always pick it up the next day.

But on Thursday, as he stood in the street outside his locked and deserted office, he could hear thunderous sounds rolling in from the east. The city was under fire.

As the conflict intensified, and gunfire became audible to the west too, Ivan moved his mattress into the hall. He piled up his large collection of art books - including the Encyclopaedia of Ukrainian Rock Music - against the windows of his flat in the district of Primorsky.

"Let's say it was not a waste of a library," says the 36-year-old photographer, who is also a press officer at Ukrainian premier league football club FC Mariupol.


Ivan Stanislavsky loved to photograph his city of Mariupol

Across town in the neighbourhood of Kalmiusky, businessman Yevhen was also taking precautions. The 47-year-old had told his family to pack so they could escape the city. But when he returned from the office, he found no packing had been done. His family refused to leave.  .  .



The theatre after it was bombed

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61480988

[Right_in_Virginia]

Russians With Attitude
@RWApodcast

DPR head Pushilin on Mariupol:

- 60% of houses can't be repaired and will have to be demolished;
- The city will be rebuilt with an emphasis on the resort business;
- Azovstal will be replaced with a park;
- Russia will help with the restoration of the city

7:12 AM · May 18, 2022·Twitter Web App


Russians With Attitude
@RWApodcast

The Illich Steel and Iron Works will be rebuilt

7:15 AM · May 18, 2022·Twitter Web App

[Hoodat]

On top of these problems they are lacking in sufficient agriculture to feed their populous.

The pitfalls of collective farming.  The only communist country I know of that was able to produce enough food to feed its own people was Warsaw Pact Hungary, and that's only because they chose to abandon the Leninist collective farming doctrine.

[Hoodat]

- Russia will help with the restoration of the city

That's rich.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Russians With Attitude
@RWApodcast

Several Moscow City Duma members have proposed renaming the place where the US embassy is located "Defenders of Donbass Square" & changing the embassy's address accordingly.

11:02 AM · May 18, 2022·Twitter for Android

[txradioguy]

Russia will help with the restoration of the city

OFFS!

[Kamaji]

OFFS!

[Right_in_Virginia]

That's rich.

Agree.  In a more perfect world Kiev would pay for the restoration of Mariupol with the salaries earmarked for the Azov Battalion.

But alas, here we are.   

[Smokin Joe]

Most modern tank design still puts the bulk of the armor on the top, front and sides of the turret. The thinnest armor from what I understand is still towards the rear of the tank where the power pack (engine) is located. It could be that's where the Ukrainians are aiming the Javelins.

The first ever recorded kill of an M-1 Abrahams was in 2003 in Iraq. An anti tank fire team waited until the tank had passed by them popped up and fired their missile into the back of the vehicle destroying it. The crew escaped though.

Oh and the missile the Iraqi's used was the 9M133 Kornet  anti-tank guided missile. It was a missile system the Iraqi's weren't supposed to have but mysteriously did and it coincided with the departure of Russian military advisers two weeks prior to the start of the ground war.

Engines create heat. It has to go somewhere, so it will be vented, and thin armor helps get rid of it (louvers, and the like all compromise that armor). Between the tracks and engine compartments, mobility kills might be easier to pull off. Roadwheels can only provide so much protection. IIRC, the Russian/Soviet designs have their ammo storage where it will be detonated by a precise strike in the side below the turret between the roadwheels, and that's why the turrets blow off so frequently.

Every design has an Achilles' heel, but the MI Abrams is known for crew survivability.

[Smokin Joe]

Applying this same strategy to today using the tactic of supplying weapons to Ukraine weakens Russia's ability to aggressive seize territory of it's neighbors and destroys Russia's ability to wage conventional war in the future. The best part is the USA does not have to put American soldiers at risk to neutralize Russia.

Not even NATO forces need be directly involved.

Provision of weapons to the Ukrainians has cut the number of serviceable Russian tanks and APCs considerably. At some point the losses cannot be absorbed without feeling the pain, and IIRC, one of Russia's sources for the steel used in their armor was the plant the Russians have been busy destroying while the Ukrainians have been fighting in there. They may also be suffering from a chip shortage (Chinese/Taiwan are the main sources). At any rate, their replacement rate is likely not close to the attrition, and at some point if they are going to remain a military power of any credibility they are going to either have to win or withdraw.

[Smokin Joe]

Agree.  In a more perfect world Kiev would pay for the restoration of Mariupol with the salaries earmarked for the Azov Battalion.

But alas, here we are.   

Right.

Because Ukrainians shelled the city for nearly three months.

 

[Kamaji]

Right.

Because Ukrainians shelled the city for nearly three months.

 

  doesn't even begin to cover it.

[Smokin Joe]

Russians With Attitude
@RWApodcast

DPR head Pushilin on Mariupol:

- 60% of houses can't be repaired and will have to be demolished;
- The city will be rebuilt with an emphasis on the resort business;
- Azovstal will be replaced with a park;
- Russia will help with the restoration of the city

7:12 AM · May 18, 2022·Twitter Web App


Russians With Attitude
@RWApodcast

The Illich Steel and Iron Works will be rebuilt

7:15 AM · May 18, 2022·Twitter Web App

The steel works was what the Russians were after.

The people can eat dirt and live under bridges, if they can find one intact...

"Liberation" my ass, this is naked conquest.

[Smokin Joe]

  doesn't even begin to cover it.

No, it doesn't, but there is no emoji for FFS.

[txradioguy]

Engines create heat. It has to go somewhere, so it will be vented, and thin armor helps get rid of it (louvers, and the like all compromise that armor). Between the tracks and engine compartments, mobility kills might be easier to pull off. Roadwheels can only provide so much protection. IIRC, the Russian/Soviet designs have their ammo storage where it will be detonated by a precise strike in the side below the turret between the roadwheels, and that's why the turrets blow off so frequently.

And the ammo is kept in the turret due to the auto loader. Also the auto loader stored ready propellant in a vertical position, with only the tank’s road wheels partially protecting it.

That's deadly for the tank and anyone inside with a successful hit from an AGTM like the Javelin.

Every design has an Achilles' heel, but the MI Abrams is known for crew survivability.

It's a tough tank with a proven track record. I remember the Iraqi's claiming we had some kind of magic armor on them because their RPG-7's were bouncing off the armor.

[Smokin Joe]

And the ammo is kept in the turret due to the auto loader. Also the auto loader stored ready propellant in a vertical position, with only the tank’s road wheels partially protecting it.

That's deadly for the tank and anyone inside with a successful hit from an AGTM like the Javelin.

It's a tough tank with a proven track record. I remember the Iraqi's claiming we had some kind of magic armor on them because their RPG-7's were bouncing off the armor.

I recall seeing a trainload of damaged M1s while on my way to a well during the Gulf War (in Utah, iirc, in transit eastward), and looking at the damage on them almost all had damage to either the engine area or suspension/tracks. No scorching or deformation to the turrets. I don't know how long it takes to build or rebuild a tank, but the crews take a while to train, and if they survive to fight another day, the rest is just getting them the gear.

Russian/Soviet disregard for the lives of their fighting men is epic though, and was particularly on display on the Eastern Front during WWII. Some things just don't change.

[Hoodat]

  doesn't even begin to cover it.

This is the point where I start looking to the sky for lightning bolts to come down and strike those so boldly uttering lies of this magnitude.

[Smokin Joe]

This is the point where I start looking to the sky for lightning bolts to come down and strike those so boldly uttering lies of this magnitude.

Yabbut. If God sent them two at a time, they'd swear He was a Nazi.

[Cyber Liberty]

No, it doesn't, but there is no emoji for FFS.

We have this:

 

[txradioguy]

I recall seeing a trainload of damaged M1s while on my way to a well during the Gulf War (in Utah, iirc, in transit eastward), and looking at the damage on them almost all had damage to either the engine area or suspension/tracks. No scorching or deformation to the turrets. I don't know how long it takes to build or rebuild a tank, but the crews take a while to train, and if they survive to fight another day, the rest is just getting them the gear.

When the tanks are damaged or receive technology updates they all go to one place...Anniston Army Depot in Alabama. Repairs/modifications are done then swapped with the tanks in the line units which then head for the same upgrades the tanks that replaced them got.

Russian/Soviet disregard for the lives of their fighting men is epic though, and was particularly on display on the Eastern Front during WWII. Some things just don't change.

The ChiComs displayed the same lack of regard for their forces in Korea as well.

[Hoodat]

Most modern tank design still puts the bulk of the armor on the top, front and sides of the turret. The thinnest armor from what I understand is still towards the rear of the tank where the power pack (engine) is located. It could be that's where the Ukrainians are aiming the Javelins.

Javelins by design attack from above, striking the top of the tank.  The top (and bottom) generally exhibit the weakest layer of armor, followed by the rear.

All tank designs have a 'weak' point relative to the rest of the tank.  Some designs have a better armored hull than turret.  Other designs focus on protecting the turret.  The 'weak' spot on an M-1 for a direct fire AT round would be the rear hull where the armor isn't as thick as on the front and sides.

As pointed out previously, the Soviet auto-loader design presents a serious flaw in that it stores many rounds in close proximity under the turret.  Any strike from above penetrating the turret will likely set off all that ammo, causing catastrophic loss of the tank. 

[Smokin Joe]

When the tanks are damaged or receive technology updates they all go to one place...Anniston Army Depot in Alabama. Repairs/modifications are done then swapped with the tanks in the line units which then head for the same upgrades the tanks that replaced them got.

The ChiComs displayed the same lack of regard for their forces in Korea as well.

Not just theirs. My Dad served there during the war (which really is only at a cease fire, not ended), and said the ChiComs would round up local villagers and put them in the front of a human wave attack. Dad just said they tried to miss the villagers.

[txradioguy]

Not just theirs. My Dad served there during the war (which really is only at a cease fire, not ended), and said the ChiComs would round up local villagers and put them in the front of a human wave attack. Dad just said they tried to miss the villagers.

I couldn't imagine having to face that dilemma.

[Smokin Joe]

I couldn't imagine having to face that dilemma.

Dad was a machine gunner. He hasn't talked about the war much, except to describe the action he was in when the Turkish Brigade got them out of a real jam (which was told me as background in describing the only fistfight to ever happen at my Grandmother's dinner table). He was one of only two guys in his outfit who could walk off that ridge. The rest were carried.
I don't push. Some things are best left alone.

He came home, got a job, married mom, they had three kids, took us hunting and fishing, taught us how to handle a firearm from an early age, pushed us to get a real education, helped us with college, and served the community, too--he is still active (in administration) of the local VFD--at 90.

I have few heroes in this life, but he is at the top of my list, along with his bride (my Mom) of 69 years.
I have no illusions about just how lucky I have been to be their son.

[GtHawk]

We have this:

 

Might I suggest

maybe someone with skills can clean it up and get rid of the white box?