FNC’s Carlson: Everyone Is ‘Lying’ — Ukraine Is Not a Democracy

[Ghost Bear]

Russian Government - No
Ukranian Government - No
Urkranian citizens- Yes

Is that too hard?

It appears to be too hard for those people who can only manage to criticize Ukraine and somehow never manage to criticize Russia, no matter how much they profess that "both are bad".

[catfish1957]

It appears to be too hard for those people who can only manage to criticize Ukraine and somehow never manage to criticize Russia, no matter how much they profess that "both are bad".

Can you provide an example of even one Briefer here who is not criticizing Russia?

[Free Vulcan]

Like hell he didn't! Just ask the owners of the hundreds of newspapers he had destroyed!

True. I was thinking more officially, as a matter of law.

He took the coward's route on that one.

[Bigun]

True. I was thinking more officially, as a matter of law.

He took the coward's route on that one.

What he did was throw the doors through which every progressive since have walked wide open!

[Kamaji]

So, it's perfectly OK for presidents to walk all over the constitution if conditions are right?  @Kamaji

Article I, Section IX, Clause 2:  "The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it."

[catfish1957]

Article I, Section IX, Clause 2:  "The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it."

Not getting picky, but when Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus on May 25, 1861, there was a solid soverign boundry between the USA and CSA.  IMO technically he didn't have the right until Lee crossed over into Maryland and  the few days leading up to Antietam in September 1862.

Yeah,  there were local fights within MD, NY, and PA, but they were handled mostly at the local and state level.

[Kamaji]

Not getting picky, but when Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus on May 25, 1861, there was a solid soverign boundry between the USA and CSA.  IMO technically he didn't have the right until Lee crossed over into Maryland and  the few days leading up to Antietam in September 1862.

Yeah,  there were local fights within MD, NY, and PA, but they were handled mostly at the local and state level.

Not getting picky, but you're going to get picky. 

[mountaineer]

It appears to be too hard for those people who can only manage to criticize Ukraine and somehow never manage to criticize Russia, no matter how much they profess that "both are bad".

I think we've been quite clear that we abhor Putin and his actions against the Ukrainian people. It's  possible to
1. Criticize Putin
2. Criticize Zelenskyy
3. Support Ukrainian civilians
... all at the same time, as they are not contradictory positions to hold.
I have yet to see any Briefer support Russia's invasion, and I certainly hope you aren't suggesting it.

[Ghost Bear]

Can you provide an example of even one Briefer here who is not criticizing Russia?

Yes I could, but they would just deny it. But my point is, occasionally saying "Russia is bad too" is not the same as posting every anti-Ukraine article and comment that can be found, which is what is happening. It's clear that some people on the right think Ukraine deserves what Russia is doing, and don't want the U.S. to do anything to stop it.

[Kamaji]

Yes I could, but they would just deny it. But my point is, occasionally saying "Russia is bad too" is not the same as posting every anti-Ukraine article and comment that can be found, which is what is happening. It's clear that some people on the right think Ukraine deserves what Russia is doing, and don't want the U.S. to do anything to stop it.

[Hoodat]

Zelensky just shut down all opposition pro-Kremlin political parties in a complete dictatorhip move defense of his country which is being horrendously attacked by the Kremlin.

There, fixed it.  And in Russia invades the US and starts shelling US cities, killing civilians in the process, I would hope that our own government would have the sense to ban any group that supported Russia.  Can you imagine a pro-Japanese opposition group operating in San Francisco or Los Angeles in 1943?  Do you really think FDR would have allowed that?

[Bigun]

Not getting picky, but when Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus on May 25, 1861, there was a solid soverign boundry between the USA and CSA.  IMO technically he didn't have the right until Lee crossed over into Maryland and  the few days leading up to Antietam in September 1862.

Yeah,  there were local fights within MD, NY, and PA, but they were handled mostly at the local and state level.

You seem to forget a few minor details there @catfish1957 such as federal troops preventing the Mayland legislature from meeting and the jailing of legislators there.

[catfish1957]

There, fixed it.  And in Russia invades the US and starts shelling US cities, killing civilians in the process, I would hope that our own government would have the sense to ban any group that supported Russia.  Can you imagine a pro-Japanese opposition group operating in San Francisco or Los Angeles in 1943?  Do you really think FDR would have allowed that?

No he didn't.  Carlson even specifically mentoned that the parties Zellinski eliminated were pro Ukranian!!!!  Where do you come up with this stuff?  And consolidation of the media into a Pravda-like arm of the government?  You've tied your fan boy status to a Dictator.....  don't regret this later. 

[Ghost Bear]

I think we've been quite clear that we abhor Putin and his actions against the Ukrainian people. It's  possible to
1. Criticize Putin
2. Criticize Zelenskyy
3. Support Ukrainian civilians
... all at the same time, as they are not contradictory positions to hold.
I have yet to see any Briefer support Russia's invasion, and I certainly hope you aren't suggesting it.

When nearly everything that some people post on the topic in some way undermines Ukraine's position, and when called on it they say, "Oh, Putin bad too", then yes, I do suggest that they support Russia's invasion. They're just not open enough to admit it.

[Kamaji]

Oy vey!

Limitations on political parties and press outfits is de rigueur during wartime.  The U.S. locked down the press during both WWI and WWII, notwithstanding the fact that the U.S. was not fighting for its very survival at the time.

Fifty years later, when the U.S. entered the First World War, the military took control of all radio communications and censored all photographs.

Then Congress passed the Espionage and Sedition Acts, making it illegal to publish anything disrespectful to the government, the flag or the uniforms of American troops.

By the end of the war's first year, 75 U.S. newspapers had lost their mailing privileges or been forced to change their editorial positions.

World War II brought the creation of a military office of censorship.

If the press wanted access, they had to apply for credentials from the office, which meant they had to play ball with the military.

Source:  https://www.pbs.org/opb/historydetectives/feature/media-in-wartime/


Ukraine is fighting for its life; is it any wonder that's it's doing exactly what the U.S. did in WWI and WWII by clamping down on the press?

[catfish1957]

You seem to forget a few minor details there @catfish1957 such as federal troops preventing the Mayland legislature from meeting and the jailing of legislators there.

Good catch, but I was focusing on his post-Habeas Corpus status, as it applied to individual rights, and individual right of dissent.

That event was against  the errant pro-confederate MD legislators, and since they were politicans, this was more seen as military action than citiziens rights.

Not wanting to hijack this thread into another WBTS topic, so I'll shut up.   

[catfish1957]

Oy vey!

Limitations on political parties and press outfits is de rigueur during wartime.  The U.S. locked down the press during both WWI and WWII, notwithstanding the fact that the U.S. was not fighting for its very survival at the time.

Source:  https://www.pbs.org/opb/historydetectives/feature/media-in-wartime/


Ukraine is fighting for its life; is it any wonder that's it's doing exactly what the U.S. did in WWI and WWII by clamping down on the press?

In my genealogy work I have Newpapers.com, and Genealogy Bank that have actual archived copies of newpapers even back to well in the 1800's.  I've read a lot of papers from the World War I/II  era, and did not see what you are calling "clamping down".  There were plenty of op-ed's out there questioning how FDR and his administration was handling the war.

In fact, the press was more balanced and freer then that it is now as the MSM/Big Tech has it configured.

[Right_in_Virginia]

"WATCH: @MaajidNawaz challenges the mainstream narrative on Volodymyr Zelenskyy"  (Video)

https://mobile.twitter.com/ElectionWiz/status/1506281813723041802

[DefiantMassRINO]

Why did the Russian military invade Ukraine?

How did Ukraine pose an imminent danger to Russia?

Where and when will Putin stop the expansion of USSR v2.0 by military force?

Russian aggression is destabilizing EU and NATO members by flooding them with Ukranian refugees.

[Texas Yellow Rose]

Like hell he didn't! Just ask the owners of the hundreds of newspapers he had destroyed!

  https://www.historynet.com/stop-the-presses-lincoln-suppresses-journalism/

[mountaineer]

When nearly everything that some people post on the topic in some way undermines Ukraine's position, and when called on it they say, "Oh, Putin bad too", then yes, I do suggest that they support Russia's invasion. They're just not open enough to admit it.

Speaking for myself, that's rubbish. Nothing we say or do here undermines Ukraine or bolsters Russia in any way.

When I criticize Biden, I'm not "undermining" the United States of America. I can distinguish between a corrupt official and the people he so poorly serves.

[mountaineer]

It's clear that some people on the right think Ukraine deserves what Russia is doing, and don't want the U.S. to do anything to stop it.

It's not clear to me. I have seen no one at this discussion forum nor any conservative on Twitter or Facebook say or even remotely imply that Ukraine (specifically, the Ukrainian people) deserved any of this. You're inferring something that simply has not been said.

[Bigun]

It's not clear to me. I have seen no one at this discussion forum nor any conservative on Twitter or Facebook say or even remotely imply that Ukraine (specifically, the Ukrainian people) deserved any of this. You're inferring something that simply has not been said.

 

[catfish1957]

Why did the Russian military invade Ukraine?

How did Ukraine pose an imminent danger to Russia?

Where and when will Putin stop the expansion of USSR v2.0 by military force?

Russian aggression is destabilizing EU and NATO members by flooding them with Ukranian refugees.

All very fair and good questions and comments.......

However, everyone should realize that one of the main reasons that the EU came into being was to create an entity union around economics, political, and security.  With that, the GDP of the EU though somewhat smaller than the U.S. could arguably be more sound fiscally. With that,  the EU should be in the overwhelming and almost exclusive lead dealing with the Ukraine-Russia conflict.

I kind of support a reverse-Monroe Doctrine kind of approach.  We never got repaid for the Marshall Plan, and have wasted trillions trying to be world policeman and nation builders.  Let's fix our own house for the forseeable future.

[Ghost Bear]

It's not clear to me. I have seen no one at this discussion forum nor any conservative on Twitter or Facebook say or even remotely imply that Ukraine (specifically, the Ukrainian people) deserved any of this. You're inferring something that simply has not been said.

You are right, I am inferring something. I've learned that a lot of people hide their true motivations, and so actions speak louder to me than words.