Ukraine: Live Updates thread

[Hoodat]

'Rape and wanton violence': Civilians in Andriivka recount Russian occupation

Gulliver Cragg  |  02/05/2022 - 05:06

Civilians in Andriivka, a village about 60 kilometres west of Kyiv, are coming to terms with the devastation and trauma they suffered during the month they spent under Russian occupation.

When Russian soldiers first arrived in early March, they expected to be welcomed as liberators. Once they realised that the locals did not want them there, they turned murderous.

"They started to consider us all as enemies," explained Andriy, who did not wish to share his surname. He left his village a week after the Russians arrived. He returned to find his house looted but intact. His daughter, Yana, can no longer play freely as the ground around her home is mined.

Tatiana remained in her village throughout the occupation. At first, she sheltered in her cellar and then – after her home was burned down – she stayed in a neighbour's cellar. She described the Russian occupiers as drunk, angry and out of control.

"There were several cases of rape and wanton violence." said Tatiana.

The bodies of those killed by Russian soldiers were initially buried in their own back gardens by their neighbours, but they have since been moved to the local cemetery.

"They were killed on the 12th of March and on the 14th, we buried them one metre deep," Lydia Kononenko, a resident of Andriivka, explained. "They tied their hands behind their backs, put them on their knees and shot them in the head. Their faces were blown off."

https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20220502-rape-and-wanton-violence-civilians-in-andriivka-recount-russian-occupation

[Kamaji]

I admit your V-8 moment hasn't hit yet. It will eventually.

It’s pretty clear yours never will. 

[240B]

WE CAN'T ELECT TRUMP!! HE WILL GET US INTO WAR!!!
is what all the NeverTrumps said ...
what they really meant was, he will keep us out of war
which apparently for so many Democrat is a terrible thing to do?

[catfish1957]

The US should stay out of European wars.

Let Europe handle Ukraine.  Maybe then they'll learn the true price of war and decide to stop their incessant bullshit.

Fully agree.

Monroe Doctrine exists to keep Europe/others out of ours.  Why shouldn't it be reciprocated.

[Kamaji]

Russian oligarch forced to sell off stakes in bank after criticizing Ukraine war: report

By Patrick Reilly
May 2, 2022

A Russian oligarch was forced by Russian President Vladimir Putin’s administration into selling his entire stake in the bank he founded after he publicly criticized Russia’s war in Ukraine on Instagram last month.

Oleg Y. Tinkov, the founder of one of Russia’s biggest banks, Tinkoff, slammed the Russian government’s decision to invade Ukraine as “crazy” in the social media post, in which he said he didn’t see any beneficiary to the war and claimed 90 percent of Russians did not support the war.

The very next day, the Kremlin contacted bank executives and threatened to nationalize the bank if it refused to cut ties with Tinkov, who founded the bank in 2006, the rare self-made Russian billionaire told The New York Times.

Last week, he sold his 35 percent stake in the bank to a Russian mining magnate with closer ties to Putin, which he said he was forced into doing by the Russian government, according to The Times.

Tinkov — who is worth over $8.2 billion, according to Bloomberg —  said he was not allowed to negotiate the price, telling the paper he felt “like a hostage — you take what you are offered.”

His 35 percent stake was valued at more than $20 billion on the London stock exchange last year, according to The Times. Without revealing the price, he said he sold his stake for a lowly 3 percent of what he believed to be its true value.

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2022/05/02/russian-oligarch-oleg-y-tinkov-forced-to-sell-off-stakes-in-bank-after-criticizing-ukraine-war/

[Kamaji]

Ukrainian drones take out two Russian Raptor boats in the Black Sea near Snake Island where the Moskva was sunk

By ADAM SOLOMONS FOR MAILONLINE
2 May 2022

This is the incredible moment a Ukrainian drone decimates a Russian patrol boat in the Black Sea.

Video recorded by the Bayraktar drone high above Snake Island this morning shows the unmanned vehicle wreck the Raptor attack craft below.

It is one of two Russian patrol vessels destroyed this morning, the Ukrainian navy said.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10774487/Ukrainian-drones-two-Russian-Raptor-boats-Black-Sea-near-Moskva-sunk.html

[mystery-ak]

UK Intel: Quarter of Russian Forces In Ukraine Rendered ‘Combat Ineffective’, Elite VDV Will Take ‘Years’ to Rebuild

Breitbart London2 May 2022

LVIV, Ukraine (AP) – The British military believes more than a quarter of all troops Russia deployed for its war in Ukraine are now “combat ineffective.”

The comment Monday came as part of a daily briefing on Twitter the British Defense Ministry has offered about the ongoing war in Ukraine. The British military believes Russia committed over 120 so-called “battalion tactical groups” into the war since February, which represents 65 per cent of all of Moscow’s combat strength.

The ministry said, “It is likely that more than a quarter of these units have now been rendered combat ineffective.”

more
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2022/05/02/uk-defence-intel-quarter-russian-forces-ukraine-rendered-combat-ineffective-elite-vdv-will-take-years-rebuild/

[Hoodat]

. Go back and read my posts.   

Here it is again:

I'm not comfortable with it either.  This is the result of our own weak leadership.  No point in blaming Ukraine for it.  From this point forward, our best course of action is to equip Ukraine to stop Russia now before we end up fighting them in Poland.

Something we agree on; a result of our own weak leadership (we all know how that went in Afghanistan).  No, I didn't blame Ukraine.

God help us!

Was I wrong to conclude that you wish to avoid a Russia-NATO war?

[mountaineer]

Was I wrong to conclude that you wish to avoid a Russia-NATO war?

I should think we'd all like to avoid such a thing.

[Hoodat]

I should think we'd all like to avoid such a thing.

I would hope so.  Yet embracing a policy that will effectively cede all of Ukraine over to Putin will only bring us closer to that possibility.

[Smokin Joe]

And therein lies the root of the problem.

Function together?  How?  Why?

Europe has bestowed upon this planet socialism, marxism, nazism, fascism, communism, modern globalism and two world wars that 75 years later they are unable to fully end.  And yet we STILL struggle to hitch our wagon to this cauldron of slaughter and anti-freedom.  Europe is the land where serfs must be controlled when not used as pawns to shed blood.

Instead of trying to crawl back into the European womb, we should remember we were born to be different----born to be that shining city on a hill and the last best hope of all on Earth.  We need to be Europe's counter-balance, not its willing accomplice.  It's past time to cut the cord, and Ukraine is a perfect place to start.

Ukraine is not America's problem, not our step-child and her borders pose no geopolitical threat to us.  Let Brussels figure out and fund the solution to their self-inflicted problem.

We either remember we are free and independent of Europe or we become them.  We're thisclose to it.

We've a country to save, and it isn't Ukraine.

Oh you are so right.

We DO have a country to save.

But short of going to Washington, and not bleep around walking through the Capitol, it isn't going to happen until after the midterms.

Or are you calling for insurrection, or a coup?

What exactly do you propose?

[Smokin Joe]

More than that. Ukraine wants America to kill Russians ... sure they do. But the bigger prize is the Billions of Billions of dollars in rebuilding "nation building". Every country America has militarily intervened has received Billions and Billions on top of Billions of dollars in 'American rebuilding money' (kickbacks ... cough cough kickbacks).

Defeating Russia is great, but what Ukraine really wants is for America to pay to rebuild their country (as America has done with dozens of other countries). There is a reason so many countries around the world are standing in line to go to war with America. It is the most profitable thing any country can do.

Florida Conch Republic - declares war on the United States, demands 1 Billion dollars in reparations



Wardlow — now serving as prime minister of the new nation — declared “war” on the United States by breaking a stale loaf of Cuban bread over the head of a man dressed in a U.S. Navy uniform. Citizens of the new republic began lobbing stale bread and conch fritters at federal agents, Navy sailors and Coast Guard personal in attendance.

Approximately one minute after declaring war and firing a “verbal shot” at the U.S., Wardlow surrendered to a nearby naval officer and requested $1 billion in foreign aid to compensate for “the long federal siege.”

War - American War - is a money scam. Zelinsky knows this too well. And he wants to cash in on American stupidity and graft. If he can get the Americans involved in any way - yes he may defeat the Russians, but the bigger goal is how much money America will pour into his busted up nation to so called "fix it".

The scam is to be defeated by the US and then get foreign aid. (Yes, I read The Mouse that Roared, too.)

But we are not at war with Ukraine. 

[mountaineer]

Can someone lend me a quarter?

[mountaineer]

The New Yorker says the US is in a proxy war against Russia.

... Yet in just over nine weeks, the conflict has rapidly evolved into a full proxy war with Russia, with global ramifications. U.S. officials now frame America’s role in more ambitious terms that border on aggressive.

The goal—backed by tens of billions of dollars in aid—is to “weaken” Russia and insure a sovereign Ukraine outlasts Putin. “Throughout our history, we’ve learned that when dictators do not pay the price for their aggression, they cause more chaos and engage in more aggression,” the President told reporters on Thursday. “They keep moving. And the costs, the threats to America and the world, keep rising.”  ...

Ukraine Is Now America’s War, Too; The U.S. is leading a new coalition of “nations of good will” as the goal expands from supporting Ukraine to weakening Russia and outlasting Putin.

[libertybele]

@libertybele

So,by definition,you are fine with Russian invading and taking over control of Ukraine and her resources,as well as a port on the Black Sea?

How about if Russia then licks her wounds,and used Ukraine as a staging area to invade and take over control of Continental Europe? I can't see why you would have any trouble with that.

No @sneakypete

[libertybele]

The New Yorker says the US is in a proxy war against Russia.Ukraine Is Now America’s War, Too; The U.S. is leading a new coalition of “nations of good will” as the goal expands from supporting Ukraine to weakening Russia and outlasting Putin.

Exactly what I didn't want!

[libertybele]

The scam is to be defeated by the US and then get foreign aid. (Yes, I read The Mouse that Roared, too.)

But we are not at war with Ukraine. 

No we are not!  It is NOT our war.

[Cyber Liberty]

QED

"Ya gotcher ipsos, ya gotcher factos, ya gotcher QEDs."  And a side order of ergos.

[Cyber Liberty]

I admit your V-8 moment hasn't hit yet. It will eventually.

I learnt as a child to never hit your own head....

[txradioguy]

NATO is implementing training exercises; meaning they intend to offer manpower to Ukraine?  In doing so wouldn't that turn this into WWIII?

Normal summertime training exercises.  Maybe moved up a couple weeks to act as a show of strength to Russia.  It doesn't mean that NATO is sending troops to Ukraine...please stop the unnecessary hand wringing.

[Cyber Liberty]

The US should stay out of European wars.

Let Europe handle Ukraine.  Maybe then they'll learn the true price of war and decide to stop their incessant bullshit.

Leaving NATO might be an acceptable end solution, but not until Ukraine throws the last Russian soldier out of Ukraine, including Crimea.  To do so before that would be handing Russia the realization of her fondest dream.  Interestingly, Putin has been whining about the possibility that NATO will border Russia if Ukraine joins the alliance, yet if he succeeds he'll have several NATO countries on his border.  In fact, it's likely if he loses, too, because Finland now wants to join NATO, and he'll end up with what he's been saying is unacceptable.

After all that passes, then sure, maybe we check outta NATO, but not before.

[libertybele]

It’s pretty clear yours never will.

It's pretty clear that I am darn tired of your continual taunting and I won't go any further. 

[libertybele]

I learnt as a child to never hit your own head....

I'm done in here and done with this forum. 

[Cyber Liberty]

I'm done in here and done with this forum. 

Awww, c'mon!  It's just getting interesting!  And I still need some recipes from you in the Lounge...

[txradioguy]

Gee, I don't know I see the issue at hand as the U.S.A. not getting dragged into fighting a war that isn't ours to fight.

It's not a matter of Z being a liberal; it's a matter of Z perhaps being involved politically with the U.S; perhaps inflicting damage within his own country and provoking Russia.

Investigating after the fact is sort of like signing a bill before reading the darn thing.  By supplying weapons and aid to Ukraine may very well draw us into a war that we shouldn't be in.  There's a reason why Joe is sending troops over to Poland and I fail to see where thousands of additional U.S. troops are need in Poland as well as additional troops in neighboring NATO countires to train a few people.

OFFS! Just stop!

This has all been explained to you before.  Supplies and weapons...assuming this administration is actually sending them...will not drag us into WW III.  That's sill and just flat out wrong to think that way.

WE SEND TROOPS TO POLAND ALL THE TIME!!! They've been training there...running training ranges building new training facilities and training with the Polish forces for at least the last 7 years.  I was part of one of those first training operations back in 2015. It's part and parcel of Poland being part of the NATO Alliance.

And quite frankly...with the training is needed for the sheer fact that if we ever do engage in a broad scale war in Europe again...every country that's part of our alliance needs to be singing from the same sheet of music.  And the only way to do that is to constantly train...and you train like you fight.