Author Topic: We’re Lesbians on the Autism Spectrum. Stop Telling Us to Become Men  (Read 1308 times)

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Offline Kamaji

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We’re Lesbians on the Autism Spectrum. Stop Telling Us to Become Men

J Peters
23 Jan 2022

If there was ever a case for a trans child, I was it. Let’s take a look at the DSM-5 guidelines and its diagnostic definition of gender dysphoria, followed by descriptions of my own experience:

A strong desire to be of the other gender or insistence that one is the other gender.

When I was in kindergarten, my teacher called home to express serious concern that I was developmentally confused, due to my insistence on lining up with the boys to go to the bathroom. Well into adolescence, I went to great pains to “pass” as a boy and even got reprimanded for going into women’s restrooms. I liked this, considering it a sign of my success.

A strong preference for wearing clothes typical of the opposite gender.

When I was in first grade, I began refusing to wear my hair long or to dress in anything other than boys’ blue jeans and polo shirts, or similar attire. This “phase” lasted through my junior year of high school, when I finally accepted (following a long and arduous puberty) that I would never “pass” again.

A strong preference for cross-gender roles in make-believe play or fantasy play.

*  *  *

There are probably many of you out there reading this, nodding along. Likely, many of you are teenage girls or young women around my age. Others, likely teenage boys or young men in their 20s, are probably feeling that this list would apply perfectly to you, if only the sex and gender roles involved were reversed. You perhaps identify as trans, or non-binary, or at least gender-questioning.

And I don’t blame you. When I first discovered the DSM-5 guidelines, it was jaw-dropping, so much so that it’s one of those moments that imprinted itself in my mind forever. I still remember where I was, what I was wearing, and the exact texture of the rock that was stuck in my shoe.

This is likely where mine and my readers’ personal narratives begin to diverge. While their reactions to reading these guidelines, or discovering a trans Internet forum, or stumbling upon a trans group at school, were likely of relief at finally finding an “answer,” mine could never be that simple. The analytical wheels of my brain started turning, wondering how something so common as a tomboy could become a psychiatric diagnosis.


*  *  *

Here’s the thing: I was saved by the grace of discovering this phenomenon too late. By then, I was 20 years old, and had already found ways to cope with my so-called gender dysphoria that didn’t involve turning myself into a lifelong pharmaceutical patient, or subjecting my already fragile body to more and more unnecessary surgeries.

You see, even at 20 I knew what that meant in a way most people don’t. I was already a lifelong pharmaceutical patient who’d been through multiple (unrelated) invasive and damaging surgeries due to factors beyond my control. The idea that anyone would do this to themselves—or worse, to their child—for the simple sin of not conforming to gender norms in the Year of Our Lord 2016 was beyond my comprehension. (If you think I was disturbed by this, you can imagine my dismay when I discovered “Body Integrity Identity Disorder” not much later.)

*  *  *

That fantasy was a brief one: I shortly realized that the reason the trans community on campus disliked the guidelines wasn’t because they were overly broad, but because they were apparently oppressively narrow, withholding lifesaving medical interventions from an already vulnerable population. And the emphasis here was on medical interventions, i.e., puberty blockers, hormones, and surgeries. It struck me that these individuals didn’t seem concerned with actual psychological treatment.

*  *  *

The result, however, was not what they intended. The more sources I read, the more questions I had, with none of my previous questions being answered in the process. No one seemed to be able to define terms such as trans, gender dysphoria, non-binary, or gendered soul without using what struck me as obvious gender stereotypes. No one could define the word woman, either. In fact, I started being reprimanded for even daring to use the word woman or making any references to female biology in a political context at school.

I’m the kind of person who takes forever to make my mind up about something. Righteous anger on behalf of any viewpoint isn’t my strong suit; in fact, I find it grating, and usually indicative of a lack of even-handed thought on any given topic. So I kept assuming I must be missing something. That this whole thing wasn’t homophobic or sexist, that it was just a misunderstood phenomenon, and that if I just stuck it out with my good old-fashioned epistemic humility, the answers I wanted would come in due time.

They didn’t. And then my closest friend in the whole word, a classically masculine straight computer nerd obsessed with sci-fi and video games, told me he was a lesbian. After that, he moved back into his childhood bedroom, stopped pursuing further education or employment, and began a series of invasive medical interventions all while engaging in some rather disturbing roleplay in which he was a 12-year-old anime girl. Apparently, this was my breaking point.

*  *  *

I don’t much relate to the accounts of transitioning girls and young women in Abigail Shrier’s (impeccably-researched) book, Irreversible Damage, though I feel deep concern for them, and for the cohort of girls that will no doubt follow them. In the case of girls, these stories often involve social contagion. Ironic as it is, I relate far more to the stories of the solitary, introverted, inward-looking boys documented in Angus Fox’s seven-part 2021 Quillette series, “When Sons Become Daughters.” Perhaps this is because I’m a pretty textbook case of what used to be called Asperger’s syndrome, though I wasn’t diagnosed until college due to the insistence of an adolescent psychologist that I had OCD instead.

Autism spectrum disorders (ASD) tend to present differently in girls, and some of this is explored in Shrier’s book. Because ASD is a mostly male phenomenon, psychologists often don’t know what symptoms to look for in their female patients. In fact, many psychologists simply don’t look for any symptoms of ASD in women and girls at all, and attribute even classic symptoms to other conditions, even when those conditions aren’t as good a fit.

*  *  *

Here’s the thing about ASD: One of its hallmark symptoms is discomfort in one’s own body, and with the physical world more generally. Especially in this day and age of self-diagnosis, and the sea of misleading “autism” memes on social media, it’s hard to realize that there’s more to the condition than social anxiety. In fact, I’d argue if you’re hyper-aware of your own social ineptness, especially in childhood, you probably aren’t on the spectrum. The issue here is social obliviousness, not social anxiety. Sure, the anxiety often comes along later, when you finally realize you’re doing something wrong, but it’s not the source of the problem.

*  *  *

Source:  https://quillette.com/2022/01/23/i-wanted-transition-to-solve-my-problems/

Offline Kamaji

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Re: We’re Lesbians on the Autism Spectrum. Stop Telling Us to Become Men
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2022, 07:23:39 pm »
It's an article worth reading.

Offline Kamaji

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Re: We’re Lesbians on the Autism Spectrum. Stop Telling Us to Become Men
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2022, 07:24:08 pm »
Quote
So why does this matter? Why not just let these kids transition if they think it will alleviate their pain? Because, and this bears repeating, gender identity is not the source of the problem. The source of the problem is gendered social norms that shouldn’t exist, paired with kids who have a legitimate neurological condition—a neurological condition that won’t go away after they transition.

Quote
But I digress. My point is that what these young people are being sold is a lie, a lie that the mind and the body are separable, and that there is a magic-bullet solution to a lifelong problem. And it isn’t a white lie, either; it’s a lie that brings along with it a lifetime of medicalization, possibly a shortened lifetime at that, and the neglect of the root-cause issues at play, not to mention a permanently hyper-limited dating pool.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2022, 07:25:17 pm by Kamaji »

Offline Kamaji

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Re: We’re Lesbians on the Autism Spectrum. Stop Telling Us to Become Men
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2022, 07:27:21 pm »
And more:

Quote
Asperger’s isn’t the only area of my life in which I find the idea of a quick solution attractive. When Democratic presidential candidate Pete Buttigieg pronounced in a 2019 speech that if there had been a pill to make him straight when he was a teenager in the ‘90s, he would’ve taken it, I remember my progressive mom murmuring in shock and horror. I shrunk down in my chair next to her, thinking that I’d take that pill then and there, in 2019. I couldn’t say that out loud, though, even to myself, because I was so deep in the closet that I could almost see Narnia.

Here are, in no particular order, the reasons I would take the Buttigieg Pill: Often, it feels like “lesbian” is more a porn category for men than anything else these days; a significant number of men treat those few women who do call themselves lesbians as if they are themselves walking porn categories; many of the actual women in my dating pool are either injecting testosterone or in a relationship with a man and looking for a sidepiece or a threesome; some of the small number of women out there who are also lesbians and agree with me on the trans issue are self-identified “radical feminists” who would probably hold it against me that I’m not also a radical feminist; I dislike cats (which are apparently required to be a card-carrying lesbian); I find women far more difficult to communicate with than men (and that’s saying something); I find women far more difficult to relate to than men (ditto); the rest of my dating pool seems to consist of either dudes in fetish gear pretending to be women, or emotionally needy and stunted dudes who think they’re women; and if I dare to say anything about any of this out loud, or under my real name, I will be cannon-blasted into unemployment.

Offline Kamaji

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Re: We’re Lesbians on the Autism Spectrum. Stop Telling Us to Become Men
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2022, 07:29:26 pm »
Quote
What I really want to do here is tell any teenagers or young adults dealing with dysphoria, or who are questioning their gender, that they’re not alone. It’s okay. If you’re dysphoric, it will probably go away, or at least alleviate with time. Even if it doesn’t, there are non-medicalized strategies to cope. If you’re not dysphoric, and you just want to belong, I get it. My heart aches for you just as it aches for myself. I want what you want, and I’ll be honest with you in a way your parents may not: I’m not sure if I’ll ever find it. But a plastic apple isn’t going to feed you.

If you’re already transitioning, you don’t have to keep going. There are thousands of people like you, and their numbers are growing every day. If you don’t want to desist yet, that’s okay, too. I’m not here to antagonize you (well, I’m not here solely to antagonize you). I just want you to know that there are other options, and that anyone who tells you not to think or read anything for yourself doesn’t have your best interests at heart.

Offline mountaineer

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Re: We’re Lesbians on the Autism Spectrum. Stop Telling Us to Become Men
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2022, 07:43:08 pm »
Governments are not doing these children any favor by banning the therapies they need for their mental illnesses. When an adult male believes he's a 12-year-old anime girl, and tries to live his life accordingly, he doesn't need to be indulged. He needs treatment.
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Offline Kamaji

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Re: We’re Lesbians on the Autism Spectrum. Stop Telling Us to Become Men
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2022, 07:48:59 pm »
Governments are not doing these children any favor by banning the therapies they need for their mental illnesses. When an adult male believes he's a 12-year-old anime girl, and tries to live his life accordingly, he doesn't need to be indulged. He needs treatment.

Neither are the so-called "advocates" who see everything through the very narrow slit of reassignment surgery.

And that is exactly the point that the author is making.

It's a long article - quillette.com publishes long articles, not quick reads - but it's worth it because it's an interesting, complex point of view that dovetails with much of what we have come to see about the gender reassignment malarky.

Online roamer_1

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Re: We’re Lesbians on the Autism Spectrum. Stop Telling Us to Become Men
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2022, 07:52:08 pm »
Inexorably

reality

intervenes.


Babylon.

Offline Kamaji

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Re: We’re Lesbians on the Autism Spectrum. Stop Telling Us to Become Men
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2022, 07:53:04 pm »
Reading the article without preconceived notions is worth the effort.  Take the author first and foremost as a human being, not as some foil for one's own predilections or beliefs.

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Re: We’re Lesbians on the Autism Spectrum. Stop Telling Us to Become Men
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2022, 07:54:46 pm »
Sex changing surgery is like suicide:  A long-term solution for a short-term problem.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
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Offline Kamaji

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Re: We’re Lesbians on the Autism Spectrum. Stop Telling Us to Become Men
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2022, 08:00:53 pm »
Sex changing surgery is like suicide:  A long-term solution for a short-term problem.

In most cases, yes. 

Offline Kamaji

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Re: We’re Lesbians on the Autism Spectrum. Stop Telling Us to Become Men
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2022, 08:01:53 pm »
I find it rather interesting that it appears that a lot can be laid at the feet of autism, particularly the less debilitating parts of the spectrum.

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Re: We’re Lesbians on the Autism Spectrum. Stop Telling Us to Become Men
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2022, 08:06:13 pm »
I find it rather interesting that it appears that a lot can be laid at the feet of autism, particularly the less debilitating parts of the spectrum.

"Appears."  It's part of the leftist fetish for the "Nature" half of the Shakespearean Nature vs Nurture dichotomy.  We can't possibly be at fault if we're born a certain way.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
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Offline Kamaji

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Re: We’re Lesbians on the Autism Spectrum. Stop Telling Us to Become Men
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2022, 08:09:35 pm »
"Appears."  It's part of the leftist fetish for the "Nature" half of the Shakespearean Nature vs Nurture dichotomy.  We can't possibly be at fault if we're born a certain way.

It's not a matter of fault.  It's a matter of causation.  The (mis)use of moral agency and moral precepts in the matter of physical organic causation is less than helpful.

Autism and autistic spectrum is real, and the effects that the author describes are real.  If my use of the word "appear" is going to be taken out of context, then I will change it.

Offline DB

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Re: We’re Lesbians on the Autism Spectrum. Stop Telling Us to Become Men
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2022, 08:10:33 pm »
Governments are not doing these children any favor by banning the therapies they need for their mental illnesses. When an adult male believes he's a 12-year-old anime girl, and tries to live his life accordingly, he doesn't need to be indulged. He needs treatment.

Going hungry might help.

Offline Kamaji

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Re: We’re Lesbians on the Autism Spectrum. Stop Telling Us to Become Men
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2022, 08:11:15 pm »
Going hungry might help.

And it might not.

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Re: We’re Lesbians on the Autism Spectrum. Stop Telling Us to Become Men
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2022, 08:13:50 pm »
It's not a matter of fault.  It's a matter of causation.  The (mis)use of moral agency and moral precepts in the matter of physical organic causation is less than helpful.

Autism and autistic spectrum is real, and the effects that the author describes are real.  If my use of the word "appear" is going to be taken out of context, then I will change it.

Naw, I get it.  I'm not the best reader in the world.  Besides, leftists really hate the Bard anyway.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
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Offline Kamaji

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Re: We’re Lesbians on the Autism Spectrum. Stop Telling Us to Become Men
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2022, 08:17:30 pm »
Naw, I get it.  I'm not the best reader in the world.  Besides, leftists really hate the Bard anyway.

:thumbsup:

I'm not advocating for the author's conclusions wholesale, but I think that she has a very useful point of view, a considered point of view, and makes some cogent, coherent arguments that deserve to be taken seriously.

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Re: We’re Lesbians on the Autism Spectrum. Stop Telling Us to Become Men
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2022, 08:21:57 pm »
I have seen among social media the hijacking of autism-spectrum-related content in much the same way the LGBT-etc. has become militarized. It's discouraging. (The other discouraging part is the lumping us in with the far more common ADHD—having been misdiagnosed with ADD as a kid, then Asperger's—which is now more commonly known as atypical autism—as a teen.)
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Offline Kamaji

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Re: We’re Lesbians on the Autism Spectrum. Stop Telling Us to Become Men
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2022, 08:24:09 pm »
I have seen among social media the hijacking of autism-spectrum-related content in much the same way the LGBT-etc. has become militarized. It's discouraging. (The other discouraging part is the lumping us in with the far more common ADHD—having been misdiagnosed with ADD as a kid, then Asperger's—which is now more commonly known as atypical autism—as a teen.)

It sounds like the problem here is that underlying autism-spectrum is being hijacked for ulterior purposes to "justify" irreversible reassignment techniques as being solutions to a problem that is being misdiagnosed.

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Re: We’re Lesbians on the Autism Spectrum. Stop Telling Us to Become Men
« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2022, 08:25:03 pm »
"Appears."  It's part of the leftist fetish for the "Nature" half of the Shakespearean Nature vs Nurture dichotomy.  We can't possibly be at fault if we're born a certain way.

There IS some there. I know a gal or two that are decidedly butch. And I know men who are decidedly fem. A hard life both ways. Hard to find acceptance. I get that.

As far as one butch chick is concerned... She found herself an effeminate and submissive man. She wears the pants, as it were, and he is alright with that... And they seem happy enough, and accepted in their way. But she is under no illusions. She knows she is female.

Another butch chick I know was never satisfied with a submissive man. It was a thing for her. She needed to be subdued, and the only thing that would do for her was upon a rather male field of valor sort of thing... An awful, challenging sort of woman... angry and mean... Till she met with a force so great that it overwhelmed her. Hes a badass biker, and don't take none of her shit. And she challenges every day... And in the end, must submit.

But that is where she stayed. And they love each other. Common law, but been together longer than most. And they are happy together, in their volatile way.

There IS a spectrum - I have no problem understanding that.

but as I said above - Inexorably, reality intervenes. Denying one's self, whether it is physically, mentally, or spiritually, will surely come to naught. Kick against the traces all you want.

Some guys really want to be a cowboy. Buy the clothes, and affect a drawl... tell the stories and the brags.
That doesn't actually MAKE them a cowboy. Not to a real cowboy, as they know the difference. And they do not entertain fantasies.

That is the thing - fantasy overriding reality... And demanding others accept your fantasy as reality.

in the end, inexorably, reality intervenes. It is undeniable.

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Re: We’re Lesbians on the Autism Spectrum. Stop Telling Us to Become Men
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2022, 08:26:59 pm »
:thumbsup:

I'm not advocating for the author's conclusions wholesale, but I think that she has a very useful point of view, a considered point of view, and makes some cogent, coherent arguments that deserve to be taken seriously.

I agree with that.  She makes very good points in the article.  I wonder if females and males with the "Gender Dysphoria" travel the same paths.  It seems there are a lot more genetic males getting reassignment surgery than females, so are the points she makes applicable?
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Re: We’re Lesbians on the Autism Spectrum. Stop Telling Us to Become Men
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2022, 08:29:47 pm »
It sounds like the problem here is that underlying autism-spectrum is being hijacked for ulterior purposes to "justify" irreversible reassignment techniques as being solutions to a problem that is being misdiagnosed.

Sort of like giving "vaccines" that permanently damage our dynamic immune systems to quell the fear of a man-made virus that will go away no matter what we do?
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline Kamaji

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Re: We’re Lesbians on the Autism Spectrum. Stop Telling Us to Become Men
« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2022, 08:30:24 pm »
Sort of like giving "vaccines" that permanently damage our dynamic immune systems to quell the fear of a man-made virus that will go away no matter what we do?

Bigger than that.

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Re: We’re Lesbians on the Autism Spectrum. Stop Telling Us to Become Men
« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2022, 08:32:37 pm »
Bigger than that.

I can see that, and the COVID hoax is pretty damned big.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed: