Author Topic: THE USELESSNESS OF SOLAR ENERGY  (Read 760 times)

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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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THE USELESSNESS OF SOLAR ENERGY
« on: December 31, 2021, 05:56:54 pm »
You sometimes see newspaper headlines to the effect that, say, a “50 megawatt solar power plant” is being constructed. But you shouldn’t count on getting anything remotely approaching 50 megawatts of power from such an installation. Energy expert Isaac Orr explains:

Data from the U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) show that production from solar panels plummets in the winter. The graph below shows the percentage of electricity generated by solar panels in Minnesota compared to their potential output. This percentage is called a capacity factor in electricity-industry lingo.

Isaac’s analysis applies specifically to Minnesota, but bear in mind that while northern states get fewer hours of sunlight than southern states in the winter, they get more hours of sunlight in the summer. And note that in the best of times, solar panels don’t produce electricity anywhere near half the time.

Minnesota solar panels are most productive in June and July, when they produce almost 30 percent of their potential output. Unsurprisingly, solar panels produce far less energy in November, December, and January, where production capacity factors are seldom above 10 percent.

That is pathetic. We spend billions of dollars on solar panels and transmission lines, and in winter, when we need energy the most, they work only around ten percent of the time.

Another reason for falling productivity in winter is snow cover. Even a thin layer of snow on panels can lead to significant reductions in electricity generation from solar panels, and as Ralph Jacobson, the founder of IPS Solar, has said in the past, it is too expensive to pay someone to clear snow off the panels.

Process that fact: solar panels are such a lame energy source that when it snows, it isn’t worth it to pay someone–high school kids, probably–to shovel them off.
We can see the impact of snowfall on electricity generation in the graph below. In February of 2018, solar panels produced 14.6 percent of their potential output, and in 2020, they generated 17 percent. However, in 2019, solar facilities produced just 6 percent of their potential output, because that year had one of the snowiest Februarys on record.

Why in the world would we rely on an energy source to power our grid that may work only six percent of the time? The answer, of course, is that we don’t. The same utilities that charge ratepayers billions to construct solar and wind facilities also charge them billions to build natural gas power plants–plants that actually work. And the overwhelming majority of the time, it is natural gas, not solar or wind, that is providing electricity. The unreliable (i.e., usually useless) “green” sources are just for show, and for fleecing ratepayers.

So far, most voters have been snowed by “green” energy propaganda. Or that is what they tell pollsters, anyway. But the day is coming when voters understand that they have been had by one of the biggest cons in world history.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Online roamer_1

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Re: THE USELESSNESS OF SOLAR ENERGY
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2021, 06:59:19 pm »
It's a fact in practice....

Up in here, an average homestead gets by on 10 panels... is doing well on 15, but they ain't really made till they have 20 to 24... mostly because you need TWICE as many to have a reasonable effect in the winter. That homestead on 10 panels is running a jenny all winter long.

Online libertybele

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Re: THE USELESSNESS OF SOLAR ENERGY
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2021, 07:03:29 pm »
We get the sunlight needed, but I'm not sure that the cost of the panels would be worth it.  During the summer months our highest electric bill is around $130.00. 
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Online roamer_1

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Re: THE USELESSNESS OF SOLAR ENERGY
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2021, 07:09:46 pm »
We get the sunlight needed, but I'm not sure that the cost of the panels would be worth it.  During the summer months our highest electric bill is around $130.00.

Depends how far you are from the cable... Up in here it is often way cheaper to go off-grid compared to the cost of draggin a cable in through solid rock...

Even here where I am though - Just a mile out of town - I started messin with solar to get my mind straight on it for my place up in the holler... But I think I am going to put in a pretty basic system here anyway... more centered around batteries charged from the grid in case of outage, but with some minimal solar capability to offset a jenny in case of a longer term outage. During such an outage, if I am in a conservative mode, I might be able to forego the jenny altogether.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: THE USELESSNESS OF SOLAR ENERGY
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2021, 07:33:42 pm »
Depends how far you are from the cable... Up in here it is often way cheaper to go off-grid compared to the cost of draggin a cable in through solid rock...

Even here where I am though - Just a mile out of town - I started messin with solar to get my mind straight on it for my place up in the holler... But I think I am going to put in a pretty basic system here anyway... more centered around batteries charged from the grid in case of outage, but with some minimal solar capability to offset a jenny in case of a longer term outage. During such an outage, if I am in a conservative mode, I might be able to forego the jenny altogether.
What sort of wind do you get there (I knew a guy who charged up his DC powered machine shop leyden jars with small wind mills).
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline LegalAmerican

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Re: THE USELESSNESS OF SOLAR ENERGY
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2021, 07:48:30 pm »
You sometimes see newspaper headlines to the effect that, say, a “50 megawatt solar power plant” is being constructed. But you shouldn’t count on getting anything remotely approaching 50 megawatts of power from such an installation. Energy expert Isaac Orr explains:

Data from the U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) show that production from solar panels plummets in the winter. The graph below shows the percentage of electricity generated by solar panels in Minnesota compared to their potential output. This percentage is called a capacity factor in electricity-industry lingo.

Isaac’s analysis applies specifically to Minnesota, but bear in mind that while northern states get fewer hours of sunlight than southern states in the winter, they get more hours of sunlight in the summer. And note that in the best of times, solar panels don’t produce electricity anywhere near half the time.

Minnesota solar panels are most productive in June and July, when they produce almost 30 percent of their potential output. Unsurprisingly, solar panels produce far less energy in November, December, and January, where production capacity factors are seldom above 10 percent.

That is pathetic. We spend billions of dollars on solar panels and transmission lines, and in winter, when we need energy the most, they work only around ten percent of the time.

Another reason for falling productivity in winter is snow cover. Even a thin layer of snow on panels can lead to significant reductions in electricity generation from solar panels, and as Ralph Jacobson, the founder of IPS Solar, has said in the past, it is too expensive to pay someone to clear snow off the panels.

Process that fact: solar panels are such a lame energy source that when it snows, it isn’t worth it to pay someone–high school kids, probably–to shovel them off.
We can see the impact of snowfall on electricity generation in the graph below. In February of 2018, solar panels produced 14.6 percent of their potential output, and in 2020, they generated 17 percent. However, in 2019, solar facilities produced just 6 percent of their potential output, because that year had one of the snowiest Februarys on record.

Why in the world would we rely on an energy source to power our grid that may work only six percent of the time? The answer, of course, is that we don’t. The same utilities that charge ratepayers billions to construct solar and wind facilities also charge them billions to build natural gas power plants–plants that actually work. And the overwhelming majority of the time, it is natural gas, not solar or wind, that is providing electricity. The unreliable (i.e., usually useless) “green” sources are just for show, and for fleecing ratepayers.

So far, most voters have been snowed by “green” energy propaganda. Or that is what they tell pollsters, anyway. But the day is coming when voters understand that they have been had by one of the biggest cons in world history.

Yes useless , unless in daily sunny WEST.  My parents tried it in Indiana. It needed electricity, for the fan, to bring IN THE WARMTH.  Very little. Total waste.  Even here in Sunny Nevada, the last few weeks have been dark, overcast with winter weather.  Short bouts of sun. 

Online roamer_1

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Re: THE USELESSNESS OF SOLAR ENERGY
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2021, 07:51:57 pm »
What sort of wind do you get there (I knew a guy who charged up his DC powered machine shop leyden jars with small wind mills).

I have a fair westerly breeze here most of the time coming down out of the canyon... Been thinking on that too - bot it would have to be reliable... I have a thing designed on a bar napkin.... Basically a 8 or 10 ft  tube on end with moveable flutes around it... It should be able to open wide and spin in hardly any breeze, and close up more and more as the wind gets fierce... I really want to mess with that sometime.

Up in the holler I have a waterfall so main power there is going to be turbine in a drop pipe, and solar/jenny for backup... That turbine should be a fun trick.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: THE USELESSNESS OF SOLAR ENERGY
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2021, 07:52:09 pm »
Yes useless , unless in daily sunny WEST.  My parents tried it in Indiana. It needed electricity, for the fan, to bring IN THE WARMTH.  Very little. Total waste.  Even here in Sunny Nevada, the last few weeks have been dark, overcast with winter weather.  Short bouts of sun.
The Minnesota figures likely reflect what we''d see here, too, in tropical North Dakota. I have posted before that we get 16 hours of sunlight in summer around the 48th parallel, but only eight in winter. Wind power is less likely to fail here on a small scale, just because bearings would be sealed units, and no gearbox fluids would be involved.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Joe Wooten

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Re: THE USELESSNESS OF SOLAR ENERGY
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2022, 11:16:14 pm »
I have a fair westerly breeze here most of the time coming down out of the canyon... Been thinking on that too - bot it would have to be reliable... I have a thing designed on a bar napkin.... Basically a 8 or 10 ft  tube on end with moveable flutes around it... It should be able to open wide and spin in hardly any breeze, and close up more and more as the wind gets fierce... I really want to mess with that sometime.

Up in the holler I have a waterfall so main power there is going to be turbine in a drop pipe, and solar/jenny for backup... That turbine should be a fun trick.

I remember reading about an engineer in Oregon who decided to go off grid back at the turn of the century. He bought some property that had some fairly high mountains at one end and there was a spring coming out that he watched for several years that never stopped flowing. he dug a small pond with a weir to measure the flowrate of the water. Using that, he designed and built a small hydro turbine/generator to use the flow at about 50 ft of head. If I remember correctly, he was able to get a steady 20 or 30 kW from it that took care of almost all his family's needs. Then he made a BIG mistake by writing a paper about it for one of the engineering journals and some damn officious state or federal bureaucrat read it and immediately went to him demanding he shut it down and dismantle it using some obscure environmental law. The 'crat told him it would kill off all the fish in the little creek the spring fed, even though the turbine exhausted the water back into the creek  bypassing only the mostly vertical bed where there was no life except some moss.

He sued, but lost in court and could not afford to appeal the last I read about it. He probably would have never been tagged if he had kept his mouth shut... 888mouth

Online roamer_1

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Re: THE USELESSNESS OF SOLAR ENERGY
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2022, 12:59:06 am »
I remember reading about an engineer in Oregon who decided to go off grid back at the turn of the century. He bought some property that had some fairly high mountains at one end and there was a spring coming out that he watched for several years that never stopped flowing. he dug a small pond with a weir to measure the flowrate of the water. Using that, he designed and built a small hydro turbine/generator to use the flow at about 50 ft of head. If I remember correctly, he was able to get a steady 20 or 30 kW from it that took care of almost all his family's needs. Then he made a BIG mistake by writing a paper about it for one of the engineering journals and some damn officious state or federal bureaucrat read it and immediately went to him demanding he shut it down and dismantle it using some obscure environmental law. The 'crat told him it would kill off all the fish in the little creek the spring fed, even though the turbine exhausted the water back into the creek  bypassing only the mostly vertical bed where there was no life except some moss.

He sued, but lost in court and could not afford to appeal the last I read about it. He probably would have never been tagged if he had kept his mouth shut... 888mouth

Well I ain't gonna tell a soul. Piss on the ground around here and some government man will stick a flag in it and claim it for Eagle Flyway. I have found it to be more of an advantage to ask forgiveness rather than permission.

The property is set for it... The only way onto the property is a creek crossing at the bottom of a waterfall... and just down from the crossing it drops again. Both 30 ft or more. I could easy take with 2 8" pipes or 3 6" pipes and the creek would not even know the difference. I figger to use a in-pipe mounted turbine and let the water go right out the bottom of the stack, so I would not even be robbing the creek a bit. Two 8" turbines in the top falls and two in the bottom falls should give me plenty... Other than 220... Doubt I will have that without the jenny, but a small price to pay there... Would love to run a stick welder naturally, but that and an industrial compressor would be my sacrifice. Besides, the way things are today, I can make do with a 110 welder and batt driven tools.

The only hard part is going to be burying the lines. It's up in shield country and there's a piece of Montana somewhere in the way, sho 'nuff.

I guess I could leave wire lay on top, but since I am cutting it in, I would like to steal my water from there too - near 50 ft of rise form where the cabin will be, and reduction should give me hella pressure with no tanks to worry over in the winter. So getting to the cabin is a thing.


Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: THE USELESSNESS OF SOLAR ENERGY
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2022, 02:24:26 pm »
One more article here on this subject

Quote
Green energy? Solar toys won't cut it
By the time solar energy reaches Earth's surface, it is spread very thin — even midday sunshine will not boil the billy or make toast.  And solar collectors will convert only about 20% of that weak energy into electricity.  Thus, thousands of solar panels are needed to collect significant energy, and lots more to charge the expensive batteries needed to maintain electricity supply overnight and during cloudy weather.  Despite these disadvantages, force-feeding of "green" energy by all levels of government has given Australia nearly three million solar collectors (mainly imported from China).

It requires scads of land to generate significant electricity from the sun's weak rays.  But even in sunny weather, they produce nothing for sixteen hours every day.  And a sprinkling of dust, pollen, ash, or salt, or a few splatters of poop from birds or flying foxes, can reduce output by 50%, while night, snow, or heavy cloud cover snuffs them out.

Solar energy collection is maximized if the panels face the sun exactly and follow the daily and seasonal movements of the sun across the sky.  No rooftop collectors and only 40% of ground facilities can do this.  Thus, to produce the planned energy requires an even bigger area of collector panels, covering even more land.

More interested in propaganda than science, greens call land-based arrays "solar farms," suggesting that they are plant-friendly places.  However, solar panels steal sunlight, leaving real plants beneath them to die.  Solar "farms" have nothing in common with real farms except the need for large areas of open countryside — usually consuming valuable flattish cleared farmland or open grassland.

In fact growing plants are a liability to solar "farms" because they can block solar energy, so the operators must prevent grass, weeds and bushes from shadowing the panels and stealing their sunshine.  Thus, most plant life in solar "farms" is killed —by the blocking of the sun or by regular applications of herbicide or by roadways.
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2022/01/green_energy_solar_toys_wont_cut_it.html
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Offline DefiantMassRINO

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Re: THE USELESSNESS OF SOLAR ENERGY
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2022, 02:33:00 pm »
In eastern Massachusetts, this December was one of the least sunny on record.  My solar panels have done squat.
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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: THE USELESSNESS OF SOLAR ENERGY
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2022, 02:42:32 pm »
In eastern Massachusetts, this December was one of the least sunny on record.  My solar panels have done squat.
Am curious:

Did you install them out of your own pocket or were you motivated to do so by some type of government rebate or grant? @DefiantMassRINO
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Online catfish1957

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Re: THE USELESSNESS OF SOLAR ENERGY
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2022, 02:54:25 pm »
Whacko Greenies = Woke

And I'll add my favorite DJT quote.....


"Everything woke turns to shit."
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