Author Topic: Charlottesville Donates Lee Statue to Group Planning to Melt It Down  (Read 809 times)

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Offline mystery-ak

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Charlottesville Donates Lee Statue to Group Planning to Melt It Down

Amy Furr 7 Dec 2021

The Charlottesville City Council has determined what will happen to a statue that was taken down in July, NBC 12 reported Tuesday.

A few minutes after midnight, four city councilors voted to donate the statue of Confederate General Robert E. Lee to the Jefferson School African American Heritage Center.

It will be melted down and turned into art “that expresses the city’s values of inclusivity and racial justice,” the organization’s bid said.

The majority of public comments voiced during the meeting regarding the statue backed the “Swords Into Plowshares” proposal.

Councilors also expressed a desire to ship the statue of Gen. “Stonewall” Jackson to LAXART, which is an art center in Los Angeles, but wanted to learn if the museum would receive the one statue.

“Its bid had requested both Confederate monuments,” the NBC 12 article read.

The city of Charlottesville, Virginia, officially removed the statues of Lee and Jackson in July, Breitbart News reported at the time.

“The removals come as far-left radicals seek to destroy statuary across the country, with a much broader scope than just Confederates. The City of Charlottesville also decided to remove a statue depicting Lewis, Clarke, and Sacagawea on their exploration of the Louisiana Purchase,” the article read.

more w/video
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2021/12/07/charlottesville-donates-lee-statue-group-planning-melt-it-down/
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Offline berdie

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Re: Charlottesville Donates Lee Statue to Group Planning to Melt It Down
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2021, 10:42:25 pm »
 8888crybaby

Offline LegalAmerican

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Re: Charlottesville Donates Lee Statue to Group Planning to Melt It Down
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2021, 10:44:02 pm »
8888crybaby

Yes. CANCELING OUR AMERICAN CULTURE.   

Online Slide Rule

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Re: Charlottesville Donates Lee Statue to Group Planning to Melt It Down
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2021, 01:01:47 pm »
After this war we will construct new statues of new generals and
other patriots.
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Re: Charlottesville Donates Lee Statue to Group Planning to Melt It Down
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2021, 01:54:20 pm »
After this war we will construct new statues of new generals and
other patriots.

Five fold....

I want them to pay for infringement of my heritage.  No one on our side was f__ing with theirs.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2021, 01:55:37 pm by catfish1957 »
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline jafo2010

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Re: Charlottesville Donates Lee Statue to Group Planning to Melt It Down
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2021, 06:07:23 am »
A travesty.  One need not agree with slavery and such, but these men were important in our history.  And they were Americans!!

But hey, the liberal morons have thrown statues of George Floyd up, a true dirtbag repeat criminal felon, whose highlight was holding a gun or knife to the belly of an 8 month pregnant woman.  If we had justice, this maggot would have been serving a life sentence for that!!!

Offline Kamaji

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Re: Charlottesville Donates Lee Statue to Group Planning to Melt It Down
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2021, 05:57:15 pm »
Melting down a statue is not destroying history; it's simply destroying what might have been, depending, an interesting historical artifact, a trinket, if you will.

As such, if the denizens of a given area decide, on balance, that they don't want a particular statue around any more, then they should be able to vote to get rid of it, regardless of what it reflects.

Offline unite for individuality

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Re: Charlottesville Donates Lee Statue to Group Planning to Melt It Down
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2021, 06:30:10 pm »
Melting down a statue is not destroying history; it's simply destroying what might have been, depending, an interesting historical artifact, a trinket, if you will.

As such, if the denizens of a given area decide, on balance, that they don't want a particular statue around any more, then they should be able to vote to get rid of it, regardless of what it reflects.


I would suggest auctioning off those "undesirable" statues to private collectors.

Destroying statues is not so much "destroying history" as it is
evidence that history has already been erased!
Statues of abolitionists are being destroyed, in the name of "anti-racism"!

I'm okay with toppling statues of people like Stalin, or Saddam Hussein.
But today's mindless "wokesters" are putting up statues of habitual criminals like George Floyd.
That reflects their core value of being solidly FOR crime!

Super criminals like Stalin call their own supporters "useful idiots."
Today, the idiots are destroying statues.
Soon, they will be destroying entire populations!

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Offline Kamaji

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Re: Charlottesville Donates Lee Statue to Group Planning to Melt It Down
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2021, 06:36:25 pm »

I would suggest auctioning off those "undesirable" statues to private collectors.

Destroying statues is not so much "destroying history" as it is
evidence that history has already been erased!
Statues of abolitionists are being destroyed, in the name of "anti-racism"!

I'm okay with toppling statues of people like Stalin, or Saddam Hussein.
But today's mindless "wokesters" are putting up statues of habitual criminals like George Floyd.
That reflects their core value of being solidly FOR crime!

Super criminals like Stalin call their own supporters "useful idiots."
Today, the idiots are destroying statues.
Soon, they will be destroying entire populations!



Melting down a statue is hardly evidence that history has been erased.  If the history is still in the books, it hasn't been erased.  It's merely evidence that the owner of that statue - whether private or public - no longer considers the statue worth putting on display.

Putting these statues up for auction would have been a sensible way to raise funds for the community in question, but they chose not to; such is life.

Offline unite for individuality

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Re: Charlottesville Donates Lee Statue to Group Planning to Melt It Down
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2021, 06:51:55 pm »
Melting down a statue is hardly evidence that history has been erased.  If the history is still in the books, it hasn't been erased.  It's merely evidence that the owner of that statue - whether private or public - no longer considers the statue worth putting on display.

If nobody reads the books, it's been erased.
If people are led to believe false versions of what happened,
it's been erased and overwritten.

Politicians (both the elected ones and the string pullers) make this happen
to breed new generations of people who have NOT learned the lessons of history,
so the politicians can use them to repeat the same old disasters
that past generations of politicians inflicted.
If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion,
mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.
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Offline Kamaji

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Re: Charlottesville Donates Lee Statue to Group Planning to Melt It Down
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2021, 06:56:17 pm »

If nobody reads the books, it's been erased.
If people are led to believe false versions of what happened,
it's been erased and overwritten.

Politicians (both the elected ones and the string pullers) make this happen
to breed new generations of people who have NOT learned the lessons of history,
so the politicians can use them to repeat the same old disasters
that past generations of politicians inflicted.


Baloney.  It's only erased if the books are rewritten, and the old versions destroyed.

Conflating a statue with actual history is a big mistake.  It leads to reification of things, and an ignorance of actual history.

So long as the books are there, an enterprising reader can still find them, even if it takes some effort.  And this regardless of whether the statues are still there or not.

If the statues remain, but the books are gone, then the statues will eventually fade into irrelevance, being known mostly for their faces, rather than for the facts they are supposed to relate to.

The most valuable part of the statues and monuments from ancient Egypt aren't the statues or monuments themselves, but the writing that is inscribed on them.  If that writing had instead been embodied on papyrus papers, and the statues/monuments left without writing, the statues/monuments would be substantially less important than the writings.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2021, 06:59:04 pm by Kamaji »

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Re: Charlottesville Donates Lee Statue to Group Planning to Melt It Down
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2021, 09:52:39 pm »

I would suggest auctioning off those "undesirable" statues to private collectors.




Actually, the best course of action would be an organization like the SCV to purchase and relocate them all to a newly built and privately owned Confederate Heritage Park. 

But, sadly, the SCV has been sniveling cowards during this sorid mess and has done nada.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2021, 01:04:32 pm by catfish1957 »
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Charlottesville Donates Lee Statue to Group Planning to Melt It Down
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2021, 04:26:38 am »
Melting down a statue is hardly evidence that history has been erased.  If the history is still in the books, it hasn't been erased.  It's merely evidence that the owner of that statue - whether private or public - no longer considers the statue worth putting on display.

Putting these statues up for auction would have been a sensible way to raise funds for the community in question, but they chose not to; such is life.
Then you would not object to "David" being made into landscape rock?

At some point, those statues (of Lee and Stonewall Jackson) are artwork.
There is plenty of art I have little use for, but I'm not  running around advocating it be scrapped.
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Offline verga

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Re: Charlottesville Donates Lee Statue to Group Planning to Melt It Down
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2021, 01:11:01 pm »
8888crybaby
“The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history.”
― George Orwell
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Offline Kamaji

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Re: Charlottesville Donates Lee Statue to Group Planning to Melt It Down
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2021, 01:49:57 pm »
Then you would not object to "David" being made into landscape rock?

At some point, those statues (of Lee and Stonewall Jackson) are artwork.
There is plenty of art I have little use for, but I'm not  running around advocating it be scrapped.

Is the discussion about history or artwork?

And would I object if the owners of David destroyed it?  No, not particularly.  It's theirs, let them do with it as they please.

Furthermore, the argument against these matters has never been aesthetics, but the claim that it was destroying history itself.  So, WADR, bringing in the question of aesthetics now is a poster-child example of a strawman argument.

Offline Kamaji

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Re: Charlottesville Donates Lee Statue to Group Planning to Melt It Down
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2021, 01:52:29 pm »
“The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history.”
― George Orwell

WADR, how does one better understand history?  By reading some trite inscription on the base of a statue, or by reading a well-researched book of history?

Melting down a statue, without more, does not do anything to anyone's understanding of history; it merely removes an artifact, a trinket, from the inventory of old-timey trinkets and, as per some ( https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,455399.msg2543112.html#msg2543112 ) offends the aesthetic sense.

Someone who's sense of history is informed solely by a handful of statues, when there are plenty of well-written history books around, is a woefully ignorant person.

Offline verga

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Re: Charlottesville Donates Lee Statue to Group Planning to Melt It Down
« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2021, 03:12:17 pm »
Melting down a statue is hardly evidence that history has been erased.  If the history is still in the books, it hasn't been erased.  It's merely evidence that the owner of that statue - whether private or public - no longer considers the statue worth putting on display.

Putting these statues up for auction would have been a sensible way to raise funds for the community in question, but they chose not to; such is life.
So once the statues are gone, what is to stop someone from rewriting the history books. We already see the present being rewritten. Kyle Rittenhouse is a mass murderer white supremist who shot 3 peacefully protesting African Americans. Seattle, Portland, NYC; All a bunch of peaceful protest. Jacob Blake was murdered by the cops, never mind that he is still walking around today.   
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
�More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly.�-Woody Allen
If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken him completely by surprise.

Offline Kamaji

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Re: Charlottesville Donates Lee Statue to Group Planning to Melt It Down
« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2021, 03:16:26 pm »
So once the statues are gone, what is to stop someone from rewriting the history books. We already see the present being rewritten. Kyle Rittenhouse is a mass murderer white supremist who shot 3 peacefully protesting African Americans. Seattle, Portland, NYC; All a bunch of peaceful protest. Jacob Blake was murdered by the cops, never mind that he is still walking around today.   

How is the existence of a statue going to stop the re-writing of the history books?

Give me a break.  Focusing on statues, but not spending the boring, tedious, low-paid time to keep tabs on who's editing the history textbooks, is a classic case of believing that two-bit actor with the heavy eye makeup on can do "magic" because you let yourself get distracted by the hand he's waving and ignore what the other hand is doing.

Statues can be nice objets d'art, and can add some frisson to the history lectures, but they are not history, they do not depict history in any great detail, and losing them is not relevant to whether your culture is losing its capacity to remember its history.

Offline verga

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Re: Charlottesville Donates Lee Statue to Group Planning to Melt It Down
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2021, 03:20:58 pm »
How is the existence of a statue going to stop the re-writing of the history books?

Give me a break.  Focusing on statues, but not spending the boring, tedious, low-paid time to keep tabs on who's editing the history textbooks, is a classic case of believing that two-bit actor with the heavy eye makeup on can do "magic" because you let yourself get distracted by the hand he's waving and ignore what the other hand is doing.

Statues can be nice objets d'art, and can add some frisson to the history lectures, but they are not history, they do not depict history in any great detail, and losing them is not relevant to whether your culture is losing its capacity to remember its history.
I am sorry, I apologize, I thought you were interested in a reasonable discussion. Feel free to have the last word.
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
�More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly.�-Woody Allen
If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken him completely by surprise.

Offline Kamaji

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Re: Charlottesville Donates Lee Statue to Group Planning to Melt It Down
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2021, 03:29:45 pm »
I am sorry, I apologize, I thought you were interested in a reasonable discussion. Feel free to have the last word.

If you want to have a discussion, why are you cutting this discussion off?

I stated a position, and asked for clarification on how keeping a statue is going to prevent the re-writing of the history books.

Also, I have not yet received an argument to counter my proposition that, as far as historical understanding goes, books are important, statues are not.

Please feel free to advance the discussion by countering both of those propositions.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Charlottesville Donates Lee Statue to Group Planning to Melt It Down
« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2021, 03:58:03 pm »
WADR, how does one better understand history?  By reading some trite inscription on the base of a statue, or by reading a well-researched book of history?

History needs both @Kamaji

A statue reminds us of a significant event and/or person ---- it conveys and perpetuates honor.  A history book can be the genisus of interest and discussion, but so, too, can a statue --- especially for our young.

Don't be quite so dismissive of the removal and destruction of our historical  statues and monuments.  Those orchestrating their demise are not merely removing history, they are replacing it.  George Floyd has a place of perpetual honor; Thomas Jefferson's is being erased.

This matters.

Offline Kamaji

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Re: Charlottesville Donates Lee Statue to Group Planning to Melt It Down
« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2021, 04:14:49 pm »
History needs both @Kamaji

A statue reminds us of a significant event and/or person ---- it conveys and perpetuates honor.  A history book can be the genisus of interest and discussion, but so, too, can a statue --- especially for our young.

Don't be quite so dismissive of the removal and destruction of our historical  statues and monuments.  Those orchestrating their demise are not merely removing history, they are replacing it.  George Floyd has a place of perpetual honor; Thomas Jefferson's is being erased.

This matters.

Maybe so, but it is not history, and nothing is lost to an understanding of history if a statue is taken down.

Would the English lose their understanding of their history if the statue of Nelson on his column were removed from Trafalgar Square?


Or would they only lose it if books like this were to disappear:  https://www.amazon.com/Nelsons-Trafalgar-Battle-Changed-World/dp/0143037951/ref=asc_df_0143037951/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312174369544&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7912568023087227308&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9067609&hvtargid=pla-488076553569&psc=1

Nelson's column is an opaque bit of statuary, like a fantasy in some wealthy person's person secret garden; it doesn't provide any historical meat regarding who Admiral Nelson was, why his victory was considered so consequential, nor why the conflict in which he was the victor was important, nor why it started, nor what lessons can be drawn from the fact that it wasn't avoided.

Whether a statue stays or goes should be strictly a matter for the people who live in the community that contains the statue, to be decided by their own agreed-upon procedures.  That is a purely political matter within that community, and it is there matter alone.

Whether a book of historical fact, including opinions thereon, and conclusions to be drawn from those facts, remains is a matter of importance to the world, and not something that should be removed or edited at the whim of local political narratives.

Focusing on statuary as if losing some blocks of marble and chunks of bronze is the loss of all historical fact, is in fact precisely to play into the hands of those people who think it really matters to remove those things.  And by opposing them on that ground - watching the magician's waving hand - without more closely paying attention to what they are doing to the history textbooks themselves - the hidden hand that actually contains the "disappearing" coin - is to let one's self be gulled into letting actual history be destroyed.

If the statue of David were destroyed, that would be a tragedy, for art historians, collectors, and aesthetes, if the books that contain the facts that led up to Nelson's victory are destroyed, that is a tragedy for the world.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Charlottesville Donates Lee Statue to Group Planning to Melt It Down
« Reply #22 on: December 10, 2021, 04:54:53 pm »
Maybe so, but it is not history, and nothing is lost to an understanding of history if a statue is taken down.

Something intangibe and wonderful is lost when a statue is removed.  What we value, who we value, how we got here is erased from our line of sight and we are diminished for it. 

If you've ever watched a father tell his young son about Lincoln while standing before his statue, or the odds Washington overcame to win the revolutionary war while looking up at the General on a horse, or overheard stories about Granddad fighting on Iwo Jima while looking toward the Marine Corps Memorial you know these are the moments when our history becomes real, relatable for the next generation.  This is one of the best ways our children become Americans in their hearts.

I've lost count of the number of times I've witnessed such scenes in Washington and Virginia.  So, @Kamaji you and I are just going to agree to disagree on the importance of preserving our historical statues of honor.

Offline Kamaji

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Re: Charlottesville Donates Lee Statue to Group Planning to Melt It Down
« Reply #23 on: December 10, 2021, 04:56:36 pm »
Something intangibe and wonderful is lost when a statue is removed.  What we value, who we value, how we got here is erased from our line of sight and we are diminished for it. 

If you've ever watched a father tell his young son about Lincoln while standing before his statue, or the odds Washington overcame to win the revolutionary war while looking up at the General on a horse, or overheard stories about Granddad fighting on Iwo Jima while looking toward the Marine Corps Memorial you know these are the moments when our history becomes real, relatable for the next generation.  This is one of the best ways our children become Americans in their hearts.

I've lost count of the number of times I've witnessed such scenes in Washington and Virginia.  So, @Kamaji you and I are just going to agree to disagree on the importance of preserving our historical statues of honor.

Maybe so, but no history is lost.  And the claim that is being discussed is that removing a statue is the same thing as erasing the facts contained in a history book.

That is simply not the case.

Statues can always be replaced.

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Charlottesville Donates Lee Statue to Group Planning to Melt It Down
« Reply #24 on: December 10, 2021, 04:59:39 pm »
Maybe so, but no history is lost.  And the claim that is being discussed is that removing a statue is the same thing as erasing the facts contained in a history book.

That is simply not the case.

Statues can always be replaced.
History by definition is the collective recollections of what took place.

Taking away those recollections whether by banning or rewriting books, renaming streets and schools, or removing statues is leading to the destruction of history.

This is the left destroying history.

You are saying since the bear did not hear the tree fall in the woods, there was still a sound.  A sound is only a sound if it is heard.

« Last Edit: December 10, 2021, 05:01:12 pm by IsailedawayfromFR »
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