Alec Baldwin fatally shoots woman with prop gun on movie set

[Hoodat]

“You can pull the hammer back without actually pulling the trigger and without actually locking it,” Santa Fe District Attorney Mary Carmack-Altwies told Vanity Fair. “So you pull it back partway, it doesn’t lock, and then if you let it go, the firing pin can hit the primer of the bullet.”

Which means YOU SHOT THE FREAKING GUN.

Just how GD complicated IS this?

YOU were the one handling the gun.

YOU were the one that pulled the hammer back and then let go of it.

AND......of KEY importance,YOU WERE THE ONE THAT POINTED THE LOADED GUN AT THE HUMAN THAT DIED AS A RESULT OF YOU LETTING GO OF THE HAMMER AFTER PULLING IT BACK.

THIS means that YOU fired the freaking gun!

As short and concise of a closing argument as I have ever seen.

[sneakypete]

As short and concise of a closing argument as I have ever seen.

A similarity more people could connect to would be saying "If you were one of the restaurant employees that delivers cars to customers leaving the establishment you work in,and leave the running car sitting with the door open for customer convenience,and the customer THEN gets into the RUNNING car and runs down someone walking in a crosswalk,WHO is responsible,YOU,or the customer driving the car?"

In one case an employee handed his boss a loaded gun.

In the other case,an employee handed a customer a running car.

Cars kill far more innocent people each year than guns,and nobody even tries to pretend they aren't inherently dangerous while under the control of a fool that doesn't understand how to safely operate it.

This ain't rocket science,folks.

[240B]

Why not just review the video, if it hasn't already been destroyed.
The criminally negligent manslaughter occurred on a movie set.
There must have been tons of, or at least some video of the shooting.
I'm sure the investigators never impounded any of it, as much as I am sure it is all "missing" now.

[rustynail]

It was Trump.

[roamer_1]

I have carried a single action Colt .45 most all my life, and that in rough duty... I have never had it fire from a blow against a resting hammer... And I do not believe there is enough energy in the hammer between rest and half-cock to drop on a round successfully, not to mention that the cylinder is in a revolving state during that pull... I do not believe you get alignment with the next round until after you reach half-cock...

Once on half-cock the pistol is normally prevented from strike until you hit full-cock - Though it must be said there is a reason for the saying 'going off half-cocked' - but in normal operation, with a properly maintained pistol, that should be an impossibility.

Thus, in a properly functioning Colt, the ONLY way that thing fires automatically from a hammer drop is if the finger already has the trigger depressed, and the hammer is dropped from well past the half-cocked position.

I don't think it would require full cocked to fire (but probably mostly), but the natural action in that case is to reach full-cocked stop and continue the drag with your thumb till your thumb falls off the trigger, because it is actually harder to try to lift your thumb off the trigger than to drag it off as a matter of function.

The technical aspect that should be noted is that the thing does not fire without a finger on the trigger.

And NONE of that matters. The gun was in his hand. He had an indivisible and unalterable responsibility to know the gun's state and treat it accordingly. My daddy would have whooped my ass seeing me pointing a pistol at any living thing I wasn't fixin to kill. There is and can be no excuse. Every gun (even empty ones) is a loaded gun... Always treated that way. Which was easy enough to abide, because around here, every gun actually IS a loaded gun.

[Kamaji]

It was Trump.

Clearly!

[240B]

I find it odd that they refer to Mary Carmack-Altwies as "prosecutor" since it is clear by now that she won't be prosecuting Baldwin for anything.

Noticed that too. All law enforcement and All media are referring to (passive voice) 'the accident that happened' on the set may have been the gun's fault.

Even though just like Harvey Weinstein everyone knows he's guilty, Baldwin will likely never be criminally charged. Regardless of the Hollywood mafia in their secret society pact, including all LEOs and all media, he will not escape the avalanche of civil suits about to fall on his head.

[sneakypete]

I have carried a single action Colt .45 most all my life, and that in rough duty... I have never had it fire from a blow against a resting hammer... And I do not believe there is enough energy in the hammer between rest and half-cock to drop on a round successfully, not to mention that the cylinder is in a revolving state during that pull... I do not believe you get alignment with the next round until after you reach half-cock...

Once on half-cock the pistol is normally prevented from strike until you hit full-cock - Though it must be said there is a reason for the saying 'going off half-cocked' - but in normal operation, with a properly maintained pistol, that should be an impossibility.

Thus, in a properly functioning Colt, the ONLY way that thing fires automatically from a hammer drop is if the finger already has the trigger depressed, and the hammer is dropped from well past the half-cocked position.

I don't think it would require full cocked to fire (but probably mostly), but the natural action in that case is to reach full-cocked stop and continue the drag with your thumb till your thumb falls off the trigger, because it is actually harder to try to lift your thumb off the trigger than to drag it off as a matter of function.

The technical aspect that should be noted is that the thing does not fire without a finger on the trigger.

And NONE of that matters. The gun was in his hand. He had an indivisible and unalterable responsibility to know the gun's state and treat it accordingly. My daddy would have whooped my ass seeing me pointing a pistol at any living thing I wasn't fixin to kill. There is and can be no excuse. Every gun (even empty ones) is a loaded gun... Always treated that way. Which was easy enough to abide, because around here, every gun actually IS a loaded gun.

@roamer-1

That has always been my position,also. The only thing I can think of that is both useless and dangerous at the same time is a unloaded gun or a leftist.

[sneakypete]

Noticed that too. All law enforcement and All media are referring to (passive voice) 'the accident that happened' on the set may have been the gun's fault.

Even though just like Harvey Weinstein everyone knows he's guilty, Baldwin will likely never be criminally charged. Regardless of the Hollywood mafia in their secret society pact, including all LEOs and all media, he will not escape the avalanche of civil suits about to fall on his head.

@240B

Didn't he just relocate to Europe a few days ago? He won't be extradited while there,and his fortune is safe.

Since he is now a geezer and his movie career is over due to both age and not being able to buy insurance on the fool,he is now untouchable.

[roamer_1]

@roamer-1

That has always been my position,also. The only thing I can think of that is both useless and dangerous at the same time is a unloaded gun or a leftist.

YEP. My long guns are likely unloaded - If they go in a scabbard for storage, they tend to go there clean and unloaded... But my lever gun has never been unloaded a day in it's life - The shotgun by the door  same thing. And I spent way too much time in the woods not to have a loaded pistol near to hand... And I sleep with it in the very same place it always lays - over my right hand, even with the top of my head, whether in the woods or in the bed. And it will ALWAYS be so.

If you don't like loaded weapons, you have no business in my house.

[sneakypete]

YEP. My long guns are likely unloaded - If they go in a scabbard for storage, they tend to go there clean and unloaded... But my lever gun has never been unloaded a day in it's life - The shotgun by the door  same thing. And I spent way too much time in the woods not to have a loaded pistol near to hand... And I sleep with it in the very same place it always lays - over my right hand, even with the top of my head, whether in the woods or in the bed. And it will ALWAYS be so.

If you don't like loaded weapons, you have no business in my house.

@roamer_1

IMNSHO,if you don't like loaded weapons,you have no business owning a weapon. You are obviously so irresponsible even YOU recognize it.

[sneakypete]

YEP. My long guns are likely unloaded - If they go in a scabbard for storage, they tend to go there clean and unloaded... But my lever gun has never been unloaded a day in it's life - The shotgun by the door  same thing. And I spent way too much time in the woods not to have a loaded pistol near to hand... And I sleep with it in the very same place it always lays - over my right hand, even with the top of my head, whether in the woods or in the bed. And it will ALWAYS be so.

If you don't like loaded weapons, you have no business in my house.

@roamer_1

BTW,I keep a centerfire rifle loaded because I have no neighbors within a mile and might some day have to "reach out and touch someone".

I also keep a 12 gauge Ithaca Model 37 loaded at all times with number 2 buckshot,and I keep my 3 inch "go to town" 44 Special loaded with 200 grain hollowpoints,and my "daily carry" 9 shot 22 revolver snake gun with the 1-1/2 inch barrel loaded with 22 LR hollowpoints.

These three guns are never unloaded unless I am cleaning them or have shot one dry for some reason,which has never happened so far. I have serious doubts about it ever happening,which is a good thing.

[Smokin Joe]

“You can pull the hammer back without actually pulling the trigger and without actually locking it,” Santa Fe District Attorney Mary Carmack-Altwies told Vanity Fair. “So you pull it back partway, it doesn’t lock, and then if you let it go, the firing pin can hit the primer of the bullet.”

Which means YOU SHOT THE FREAKING GUN.

Just how GD complicated IS this?

YOU were the one handling the gun.

YOU were the one that pulled the hammer back and then let go of it.

AND......of KEY importance,YOU WERE THE ONE THAT POINTED THE LOADED GUN AT THE HUMAN THAT DIED AS A RESULT OF YOU LETTING GO OF THE HAMMER AFTER PULLING IT BACK.

THIS means that YOU fired the freaking gun!

Bottom line:

The actions of the person holding the firearm caused it to discharge a round, fatally wounding the Cinematographer and wounding the Director.

Those actions included:
>Not checking the firearm for live rounds.
>Pointing the firearm in an unsafe direction (directly at people).
>Not using a rubber prop gun for practice instead of the gun to be used for the shot.
>Causing, through manipulation of the hammer, trigger, or both, consciously or otherwise, the firearm to discharge the live round.

The firearm performed as firearms do when used, striking the primer, igniting the propellant, causing the bullet to travel down the barrel and in the direction it was pointed. That is not a malfunction on the part of the firearm, and any damage done is through the actions of the person wielding it.

[Hoodat]

YEP. My long guns are likely unloaded - If they go in a scabbard for storage, they tend to go there clean and unloaded... But my lever gun has never been unloaded a day in it's life - The shotgun by the door  same thing. And I spent way too much time in the woods not to have a loaded pistol near to hand... And I sleep with it in the very same place it always lays - over my right hand, even with the top of my head, whether in the woods or in the bed. And it will ALWAYS be so.

If you don't like loaded weapons, you have no business in my house.

When encountering a grizzly, a loaded gun may be the only thing that saves your life.

[roamer_1]

@roamer_1

BTW,I keep a centerfire rifle loaded because I have no neighbors within a mile and might some day have to "reach out and touch someone".

I also keep a 12 gauge Ithaca Model 37 loaded at all times with number 2 buckshot,and I keep my 3 inch "go to town" 44 Special loaded with 200 grain hollowpoints,and my "daily carry" 9 shot 22 revolver snake gun with the 1-1/2 inch barrel loaded with 22 LR hollowpoints.

These three guns are never unloaded unless I am cleaning them or have shot one dry for some reason,which has never happened so far. I have serious doubts about it ever happening,which is a good thing.

About the same thing, @sneakypete ... Though I ain't got a long gun loaded, and maybe a few more pistolas... That matched pair of nickel 9s I got are loaded (silly peashooters I won in a game, too pretty to sell, though I will never use)  as is the 357mag in the truck... And you reminded me that the long winchester pump is loaded too... The one by the door is sawed off. And the 30/30 lever is out in the seat scabbard in the truck too... I wasn't really thinking about the pickup. So like I said.... My long guns are about the only thing that ain't loaded... And I am in a bottom here, so can't see far enough to make a difference with big iron anyway.

[roamer_1]

When encountering a grizzly, a loaded gun may be the only thing that saves your life.

Take two,  they're small... Always have a 45/70 and a .45 up in the woods. Always. And always close to hand.

And it ain't just griz btw... Moose are more of a bother than griz. You may piss off a griz, but he will forget about it... Piss off a moose, and run into him next year, he'll still hate you personally. And folks are having trouble with wolves now (though I never have).... And of course, Hoomins...

[sneakypete]

About the same thing, @sneakypete ... Though I ain't got a long gun loaded, and maybe a few more pistolas... That matched pair of nickel 9s I got are loaded (silly peashooters I won in a game, too pretty to sell, though I will never use)  as is the 357mag in the truck... And you reminded me that the long winchester pump is loaded too... The one by the door is sawed off. And the 30/30 lever is out in the seat scabbard in the truck too... I wasn't really thinking about the pickup. So like I said.... My long guns are about the only thing that ain't loaded... And I am in a bottom here, so can't see far enough to make a difference with big iron anyway.

@roamer_1

EVERY self-defense plan is conditional on terrain and obstacles.

My "everyday carry gun" is the 9 shot 1.5 inch barrel 22 pistol because if I HAVE to shoot something,chances are close to 100 percent it will be a snake or a rabid animal at close to spitting range,and a 22 LR hollowpoint  works just fine for that,and in a pinch,all 9 of them are better than throwing rocks,and MIGHT give me a chance to get into the house and grab my 12 gauge or my 30/06.

The 22 is even my "carry gun" when I go shopping in the closest town,which is about as safe as any town I have ever been in anywhere.

If I have to travel to the nearest actual city for something,my 3 inch 44 Special goes along with me.

[roamer_1]

@roamer_1

EVERY self-defense plan is conditional on terrain and obstacles.

My "everyday carry gun" is the 9 shot 1.5 inch barrel 22 pistol because if I HAVE to shoot something,chances are close to 100 percent it will be a snake or a rabid animal at close to spitting range,and a 22 LR hollowpoint  works just fine for that,and in a pinch,all 9 of them are better than throwing rocks,and MIGHT give me a chance to get into the house and grab my 12 gauge or my 30/06.

The 22 is even my "carry gun" when I go shopping in the closest town,which is about as safe as any town I have ever been in anywhere.

If I have to travel to the nearest actual city for something,my 3 inch 44 Special goes along with me.

@sneakypete That's right. I carry that .45 1911. When I go to the woods, the clip holster comes off and it rests in it's home on my woods belt... Which is on me before I go a single inch into the woods, every time, along with my go-bag.

Different strokes, right? No snakes hereabouts. nothing much to worry about smaller than 125 lbs. and mostly what I might have a worry about is a helluva lot bigger than that!

I keep trying to figure out how to carry a .22LR pistol... Would be a handy thing for dispatch on a trap line. And I keep threatening to go to a 4/10 with a drop-in .22 barrel (single shot shotgun)... Gives you 4/10 slug, buck, bird, .45 (low yield load), and .22LR, all in one package. That ain't a bad outfit for a versatile survival package.

BUT... nah. I will stick with my modded 45/70 and go back to a .45 Colt. That's enough for most the time, and anything that gets through all that, I wasn't gonna win anyway...

[sneakypete]

@sneakypete 

 
I keep trying to figure out how to carry a .22LR pistol... Would be a handy thing for dispatch on a trap line. 
 

My  is a Taurus Ultra-Lite Nine. Which means it is a 9 shot 22 revolver that shoots short,long,and long rifle 22 cartridges.

It is roughly 7 inches long from the muzzle to the rear of the grip,4.5 inches high,and 1.5 inches wide at the cylinder.

Don't know how much it weighs,but it is light and lots of times I even forget it  is in my pants pocket.

Or jacket pocket,depending on the weather and how I am dressed.

Bought it new a long time ago,and don't have a clue what I paid for it.

I do know it is very well built and insanely accurate for a handgun with such a short barrel. I have literally hit running snakes with it at 10 feet or so,using regular 22 LR ammo,not snake shot.

I would use snake shot in it if it weren't for the possibility of having to shot a rabid racoon or opossum,or even a thug if I leave home.

I know the 22LR doesn't have much of a reputation as a manstopper,but I am confident that I am calm enough to put a 22 LR Hollowpoint in an attackers eye socket at 10 feet,and I have never heard of anybody tough enough to withstand that.

Would I prefer my 44 Special for human targets? You bet,but you have to play with the cards you hold.

[Hoodat]

I know the 22LR doesn't have much of a reputation as a manstopper,but I am confident that I am calm enough to put a 22 LR Hollowpoint in an attackers eye socket at 10 feet,and I have never heard of anybody tough enough to withstand that.

A .22 through an eye socket should do an effective job at scrambling enough brain tissue to permanently incapacitate a person.

[roamer_1]

I know the 22LR doesn't have much of a reputation as a manstopper,but I am confident that I am calm enough to put a 22 LR Hollowpoint in an attackers eye socket at 10 feet,and I have never heard of anybody tough enough to withstand that.

Would I prefer my 44 Special for human targets? You bet,but you have to play with the cards you hold.

@sneakypete

Oh it ain't like that - I am a fair shot - And I can knock a squirrel in the head... or bark him with a .22 ... And yeah, I could probably hit a hoomin in the eye. But a griz or a moose, or even a wolverine (did I tell you I stepped on a wolverine one time?) I know a .22 won't penetrate a griz more than just pissin him off... Moose prolly too. And a wolverine is pissed off already.

It ain't that effective against what I might need it for. So it is extra weight in a go-bag that is necessarily light, and very purpose driven. Your time in the jungle is likely a lot the same - You really avoid carrying anything more than you really really need to. And two is one, and one is none... So everything does more than one job too... So just tossin on another pistol is against a lifetime of programming. I would do better to make do.

[sneakypete]

@roamer_1

BTW,I just now remembered that I once again have a black bear roaming through my yard at night. Used to have a big one come through the yard every night,and take a dump and a good back scratch at the telephone pole on the north side of my yard.

He never really bothered me and I never really bothered him. I would go out onto the porch sometimes as I was leaving to go somewhere,and see him walking down the middle of the dirt road in front of my house,as he was on his way to bed down in the bushes just north of the house. When this happened,I would either just stay on the porch until he had made his way down the road,or go back into the house for a few minutes. No big deal either way.

Then,it seems like someone from the local group of "He-man bear hunters" must have tracked him down with their dogs and killed him,because he just disappeared.

Just noticed new bear tracks in my yard a few days ago. MUCH smaller than the old ones. This one is probably on his first year away from his mama,and adjusting to life and new terrain. Hoping he and I reach the same "live and let live" approach to life as the last bear.

Don't get me wrong,if I am out in the yard and he surprises me and starts acting aggressive,I WILL fire him up if I think I have no other choice,but don't want that to happen. Being as this is a black bear,chances are he won't be aggressive unless backed into a corner and scared.

I am at the point in life where I am a "live and let live" guy unless severely provoked. I have zero interest in harming anyone or anything if I can avoid it.

[sneakypete]

@sneakypete

Oh it ain't like that - I am a fair shot - And I can knock a squirrel in the head... or bark him with a .22 ... And yeah, I could probably hit a hoomin in the eye. But a griz or a moose, or even a wolverine (did I tell you I stepped on a wolverine one time?) I know a .22 won't penetrate a griz more than just pissin him off... Moose prolly too. And a wolverine is pissed off already.

It ain't that effective against what I might need it for. So it is extra weight in a go-bag that is necessarily light, and very purpose driven. Your time in the jungle is likely a lot the same - You really avoid carrying anything more than you really really need to. And two is one, and one is none... So everything does more than one job too... So just tossin on another pistol is against a lifetime of programming. I would do better to make do.

@roamer_1

Gotcha. Was just pointing out that my 9 shot 22 revolver really IS a "pocket pistol" that you could carry to shoot small game or finish off crippled animals without making so much noise you scare off everything else within a mile.

I,personally,would have no trouble justifying adding it's weight to my go-bag in any survival situation. Using it when practical would save me from wasting a lot of very valuable/expensive and potentially hard to find centerfire ammo,and I seem to have a BUNCH of 22 rimfire ammo laying around.

Yeah,I also have a bunch of Nato 7.62 (remember when there was TONS of surplus NATO 308 for sale at scrap prices?) laying around for my FN/FAL,but who really wants to shoot a 308 when you can accomplish the same thing using a 22 LR revolver while making a LOT less noise?

[roamer_1]

@roamer_1

BTW,I just now remembered that I once again have a black bear roaming through my yard at night. Used to have a big one come through the yard every night,and take a dump and a good back scratch at the telephone pole on the north side of my yard.
[...]
I am at the point in life where I am a "live and let live" guy unless severely provoked. I have zero interest in harming anyone or anything if I can avoid it.

@sneakypete

No dogs I take it. Heck, even old Chewy keeps the bears out. I am pretty live and let live too. But the dogs ain't, and that's alright.

 

[roamer_1]

@roamer_1

Gotcha. Was just pointing out that my 9 shot 22 revolver really IS a "pocket pistol" that you could carry to shoot small game or finish off crippled animals without making so much noise you scare off everything else within a mile.

I,personally,would have no trouble justifying adding it's weight to my go-bag in any survival situation. Using it when practical would save me from wasting a lot of very valuable/expensive and potentially hard to find centerfire ammo,and I seem to have a BUNCH of 22 rimfire ammo laying around.

Yeah,I also have a bunch of Nato 7.62 (remember when there was TONS of surplus NATO 308 for sale at scrap prices?) laying around for my FN/FAL,but who really wants to shoot a 308 when you can accomplish the same thing using a 22 LR revolver while making a LOT less noise?

@sneakypete

Oh I won't be using a gun at that point... In fact, if I have to stay out a while, the guns are only there for protection... Can't afford to waste the ammo otherwise. So all other tasks revert to caveman.

BUT, if I were to run traps again (too gimped up currently) I reckon a .22 would be handy in the trap bucket. Otherwise, a club does nicely, and has served me long.