GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers

[Right_in_Virginia]

Reagan did two things that matter greatly.

First he made room at the Conservative Table for the Christian Right in the face of moral decadence sweeping the nation. Goldwater Conservatism was just fine in a time when Judeo-Christian principles were matter-of-factly part of every day life.  but in the face of abortion, and the ten commandments coming off the wall and prayer being outlawed in school, there was no where to represent moral conservatism until Reagan made a way. And that is what won him the election.

Yes, Reagan welcomed socially conservative Christians into the political tent.   Neither abortion nor outlawing school prayer was changed during the Reagan administration.

And secondly, more than any other, he put together the idea that if you are a fiscal conservative as an instance, it is no skin off your nose to vote for a fiscal conservative that is also a libertarian minded,

Reagan increased the national debt by $1.86 trillion (+186%).

And no, what is hurting you is the exact opposite: Hell y'all have not supported fiscal conservatism or libertarianism since he left office, other than for a brief moment during Contract w/ America. And y'all still don't to this day. And as a matter of course the Christian Right gets lip service (because you need the votes) as does the military (because you need the power).

Put up or shut up. There's your problem.

Psychobabble.

[skeeter]

Reagan increased the national debt by $1.86 trillion (+186%).

I remember Reagan showing up at a SOU address with a foot high stack of paper he presented as the fiscal year's budget. He swore he would never sign another one like it. But he did.

I never blamed him for it. I realized even back then he had no power to do anything about it but pound the bully pulpit.

[Right_in_Virginia]

For many, he was the last most conservative POTUS, often the only one in their lifetime. Like his policy or not, he comported himself with dignity and grace and possessed a likeable sense of humour even the democrats had a hard time resisting. Plus, a few quotable quotes, especially "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall."

I understand the style side of Reagan's profile.  He was affable and graceful.

I'm trying to find the policy side of Reagan's profile ... what do we point to from the Reagan administration and say "this is what a conservative can and should accomplish" or "this is what we need to build on"?

[libertybele]

SOMEBODY has to be the grownups... And take away their birthday, cut up the credit cards, throw out the frat parties, pay the bills and mow the damn lawn. That, it turns out, is never gonna be the GOP.

Good post.

 

[Mesaclone]

No, apparently the grownups run to their room (cabin) and cry on their bed about how everyone else let THEM down by not doing exactly as they wanted. Or perhaps a better analogy...take their ball and go home, pouting about everyone else's shortcomings.

[Hoodat]

Reagan increased the national debt by $1.86 trillion (+186%).

Reagan invested in winning the Cold War.  His defense expenditures yielded the Peace Dividend.  Defense spending went from 7% of GDP to below 3% in 2000.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Reagan invested in winning the Cold War.  His defense expenditures yielded the Peace Dividend.  Defense spending went from 7% of GDP to below 3% in 2000.

So fiscal conservatism is fluid?

[sneakypete]

Demonrats don't want you to shoot a deer but murdering defenseless babies is just another good time. More black lives that don't matter.

@Killer Clouds

What's the frequency,Kenneth?

[sneakypete]

I think there are some others that could carry on what Trump started if he doesn't run again. I saw that Candace Owen's might run in 2024. In 2024 I will vote for a strong America First candidate only. In 2022 we need to put strong America First conservatives in office and get rid of the backstabbing two face RINO trash in the house and Senate. If the voter fraud problem isn't fixed first it won't matter.

@Killer Clouds

Other than Candace Owens,whom I know nothing about either positive or negative,I can't find a thing to disagree with in the above.

[sneakypete]

Why does the GOP need to keep or attract the never-Trumpers? 

@DefiantMassRINO

IMNSHO,we don't. Getting rid of them is like having a cancer removed from the body public. They are the enemy,yet we (the collective "we",not you and I) keep kissing their asses and voting for them in the vain hope they will feel grateful and turn conservative. AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN. These creatures are Dims that happened to run as Republicans because there were no Dim seats open the first time they ran for office,so it was run as a Republican,or stay home.

The Democrats are their own worst enemy.  Their social justice warriors will overreach and drive the silent majority into the arms of Republican candidates.

I ain't buying it for a couple of reasons. Number one,and personal,is my dream is to have them think that *I* am their worse enemy. Someone that ain't buying the crap they are selling.

The other is that the so-called "Silent Majority" remains silent because they like being bought off by the Dims and their RINO brothers. In short,THEY are buying what the Dims and RINO's are selling.

The ONLY way we can change this is to elect someone who doesn't run around playing "kissy face" with the Dims and/or the political "pundits" on the teebee shows. Someone who stands up on his hind feet and SCREAMS "THIS WILL NOT STAND!" when they try to get a Anti-American bill passed in Congress. Someone not afraid to "name names" and give examples of their corruption live,and on national tv.

Seems like there was someone around not that long ago that was doing just that. I think his name was Donald something or another. Anyone know who I am referring to?

Face reality,folks,there is not a PROFESSIONAL politician in the country that is going to stand up on his hind legs and scream "FOUL!" when he sees or hears about some bill the Dims and their RINO butt-buddies are trying to pass that has anti-American legislation hidden away somewhere deep in the folds.

Notice the word "professional" that is highlighted and in bold. The reason I empathized that word is because there is no longer such a thing as a career politician from either party that doesn't have at least a whiff of "political corruption" floating around his or her presence. They are guilty of this for a variety of reasons. Maybe the most prominent is backroom agreements with the other party that "If you scratch my back on THIS bill,I will scratch YOUR back on the next bill that is important to your party." Do that often enough,and you are a member of the "Backscratching Party",not a Republican or a Dim,but a member of the party of "Me,me,ME,DAMMIT!" It all becomes about staying in office regardless of what they do to the nation.

Almost everyone in Congress these days is more of an internationalist than they are Americans. Even a retard like Biden has a son with board seats on foreign corporations his father and accomplices were supposed to be monitoring to make sure they didn't do anything anti-American and cut off their foreign aid money coming from America if they did. On top of that,he is not even required to attend board meetings,and STILL gets his full pay!

And no effort at all was even made to try to hide it. Hell,they are proud of it!

Why aren't the Republicans raising hell about that every day,you ask? Chances are because they are doing similar things,but staying quieter about it.

And YET,some of you  people are STILL demanding we get behind one of the Republican Party usual suspects and support him or her for President in 2024?????

WTF ARE YOU PEOPLE THINKING?

[Killer Clouds]

@DefiantMassRINO

IMNSHO,we don't. Getting rid of them is like having a cancer removed from the body public. They are the enemy,yet we (the collective "we",not you and I) keep kissing their asses and voting for them in the vain hope they will feel grateful and turn conservative. AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN. These creatures are Dims that happened to run as Republicans because there were no Dim seats open the first time they ran for office,so it was run as a Republican,or stay home.

I ain't buying it for a couple of reasons. Number one,and personal,is my dream is to have them think that *I* am their worse enemy. Someone that ain't buying the crap they are selling.

The other is that the so-called "Silent Majority" remains silent because they like being bought off by the Dims and their RINO brothers. In short,THEY are buying what the Dims and RINO's are selling.

The ONLY way we can change this is to elect someone who doesn't run around playing "kissy face" with the Dims and/or the political "pundits" on the teebee shows. Someone who stands up on his hind feet and SCREAMS "THIS WILL NOT STAND!" when they try to get a Anti-American bill passed in Congress. Someone not afraid to "name names" and give examples of their corruption live,and on national tv.

Seems like there was someone around not that long ago that was doing just that. I think his name was Donald something or another. Anyone know who I am referring to?

Face reality,folks,there is not a PROFESSIONAL politician in the country that is going to stand up on his hind legs and scream "FOUL!" when he sees or hears about some bill the Dims and their RINO butt-buddies are trying to pass that has anti-American legislation hidden away somewhere deep in the folds.

Notice the word "professional" that is highlighted and in bold. The reason I empathized that word is because there is no longer such a thing as a career politician from either party that doesn't have at least a whiff of "political corruption" floating around his or her presence. They are guilty of this for a variety of reasons. Maybe the most prominent is backroom agreements with the other party that "If you scratch my back on THIS bill,I will scratch YOUR back on the next bill that is important to your party." Do that often enough,and you are a member of the "Backscratching Party",not a Republican or a Dim,but a member of the party of "Me,me,ME,DAMMIT!" It all becomes about staying in office regardless of what they do to the nation.

Almost everyone in Congress these days is more of an internationalist than they are Americans. Even a retard like Biden has a son with board seats on foreign corporations his father and accomplices were supposed to be monitoring to make sure they didn't do anything anti-American and cut off their foreign aid money coming from America if they did. On top of that,he is not even required to attend board meetings,and STILL gets his full pay!

And no effort at all was even made to try to hide it. Hell,they are proud of it!

Why aren't the Republicans raising hell about that every day,you ask? Chances are because they are doing similar things,but staying quieter about it.

And YET,some of you  people are STILL demanding we get behind one of the Republican Party usual suspects and support him or her for President in 2024?????

WTF ARE YOU PEOPLE THINKING?

In my opinion the only 9nes making noise are "the new kids on the block" the everyone is calling bat shit crazy. I say let them stir it up. We need to get rid of all the career politicians. Ask Snitch McConnell how the Chinese are treating him and his inlaws.

[Smokin Joe]

In my opinion the only 9nes making noise are "the new kids on the block" the everyone is calling bat shit crazy. I say let them stir it up. We need to get rid of all the career politicians. Ask Snitch McConnell how the Chinese are treating him and his inlaws.

I'm enjoying the heck out of watching Marjorie Taylor Greene stir the pot. They screwed up taking her committee assignments away and now she has time to throw monkey wrenches.

[Killer Clouds]

I'm enjoying the heck out of watching Marjorie Taylor Greene stir the pot. They screwed up taking her committee assignments away and now she has time to throw monkey wrenches.

That was my thought. She might be a bit crazy but I like alot of things she says and I hope she keeps stirring it up.

[Smokin Joe]

That was my thought. She might be a bit crazy but I like alot of things she says and I hope she keeps stirring it up.

She isn't as crazy sounding as the MSM make her out to be. That's a standard marginalizing tactic used to make someone 'radioactive' when their statements are hitting close to home. All the BS about "Jewish Space Lasers" and other kooky stuff is pretty much nonsense from the MSM at, likely the behest of both sides of the aisle (who aren't doing sh*t to slow the juggernaut, an indicator they're all happy to be working against America from within their armed compound).

[roamer_1]

No, apparently the grownups run to their room (cabin) and cry on their bed about how everyone else let THEM down by not doing exactly as they wanted. Or perhaps a better analogy...take their ball and go home, pouting about everyone else's shortcomings.

CORRECTION: Not doing *ANYTHING* for *THIRTY FRIGGIN YEARS*

It is a better bet to take my ball and go home and find somewhere else to play ball... Even starting fresh in a tiny way, I have a far better chance of building success across the next twenty years than throwing anymore effort into Republicans, who will continue to fail as expected... Because they always have, so it is fair to say they always will.

And why the hell would I support something that has given me NOTHING I want? You expect me to support what I DON'T want?

That's just idiotic.

[roamer_1]

Yes, Reagan welcomed socially conservative Christians into the political tent.   Neither abortion nor outlawing school prayer was changed during the Reagan administration.

Nor was it expected to be. Thirty YEARS later, there is an assumption that SOMETHING should have been done by now. But it ain't. Not a damn thing.

Reagan increased the national debt by $1.86 trillion (+186%).

Again, expectations were low, because he was coming off forty years of democrat control of congress Jimmah's malaise, and was instituting a ground-up military rebuild. But a party committed to fiscal conservancy (as promised) should have been getting it fixed in a decade... Certainly should have had it under control in TWO decades... Now there just ain't no excuse at all.

Psychobabble.

No, true as can be.

[roamer_1]

So fiscal conservatism is fluid?

Not for thirty years, it ain't...

[Sled Dog]

Reagan increased the national debt by $1.86 trillion (+186%).

I'm going to guess that you don't have a clue how the United States apportions it's budget and decides how the money is spent.

Actually, that's not a guess.   

[Right_in_Virginia]

Nor was it expected to be. Thirty YEARS later, there is an assumption that SOMETHING should have been done by now. But it ain't. Not a damn thing.

Are you saying Reagan, THE conservative icon, wasn't expected to do anything to combat moral decline in the two examples you gave:  abortion and the ban on school prayer  --- but we should, most definitely, blame everyone who came after him for not moving the needle?

Why the special dispensation for President Reagan?

Again, expectations were low, because he was coming off forty years of democrat control of congress Jimmah's malaise, and was instituting a ground-up military rebuild.

So it's okay that Reagan didn't govern as a fiscal conservative (adding $1.86 trillion to the debt) because we had low expectations of him and times were tough?  And, if I understand you correctly, conservative fiscal responsibility doesn't apply if we spend money we don't have on the military --- in addition to the "usual" expenditures such as welfare programs and health care.  Do I have this correct?

How about during a pandemic?  Would spending money we don't have to cover economic losses incurred through a global pandemic, in addition to "usual" expenditures such as welfare programs and health care, be allowed under conservative fiscal governance?

[Sled Dog]

I understand the style side of Reagan's profile.  He was affable and graceful.

I'm trying to find the policy side of Reagan's profile ... what do we point to from the Reagan administration and say "this is what a conservative can and should accomplish" or "this is what we need to build on"?

That's not hard.

Destroy the Rodents, build the Americans.

The Rodents have controlled the budget since the 1940's, either by blackmailing the American President (Reagan) and forcing his signature on must have bills larded with pork, or by stonewalling GOP led congresses with Rapist or Marxist Illegal Aliens who won't sign the bills and who even spend unallowed funds to stop WWII vets from visiting the WWII memorial in DC.

We Americans know who mortal enemies are, and that is not a figure of speech.

Reagan stood up for America.   He wanted the power to trim the budget.  The Constitution does not at present grant that power to the President.   Until Trump, Reagan was the last pro-American President the US enjoyed, and the only one in the last century.

What else?

Reagan opposed the murder of babies.
Trump opposed the murder of babies.

Reagan cut taxes.
Trump cut taxes and arranged things so Rodents in Rodent states paid more taxes.

Reagan told Europe who was the boss of NATO.
Trump told Europe who was the boss of NATO, and the boss told Europe to pay their  bills.

Reagan thought the UN was useful.
Trump does not.

Reagan shut the Soviet Union down.
Trump was shutting China down until his re-election was stolen.

Reagan inherited an economy in disaster caused by a Rodent idiot president. He fixed it.
Trump inherited an economy under sabotage by a Rodent Illegal Alien Marxist president.  He fixed it.

Reagan won two elections in electoral landslides.
Trump won two elections in electoral landslides.

Reagan had the GOP standing at his back to promote his agenda.
Trump had the GOP RINOs at his back holding knives.

Reagan gave Invaders amnesty.
Trump deported them.

Trump is clearly both more conservative and a better president.

[Sled Dog]

So fiscal conservatism is fluid?

Fiscal "conservatism" starts with the Constitution.

When the Congress allocates funds for National Defense, that spending is authorized.

When the Congress allocates funds for education, the spending is unlawful.

When the Congress allocates funding for health care, the spending is unlawful.

When the Congress allocates funding for the Socialist Security Ponzi Scheme, the spending is unlawful.

When the Congress allocates funding for drug interdiction, the spending is unlawful.

So, when you're trying to figure out what "fiscal conservatism" is, you have to start with where the money is being spent.

100% of defense spending is lawful.
0% of federal funding for education is not.

[roamer_1]

Are you saying Reagan, THE conservative icon, wasn't expected to do anything to combat moral decline in the two examples you gave:  abortion and the ban on school prayer  --- but we should, most definitely, blame everyone who came after him for not moving the needle?

Why the special dispensation for President Reagan?

Because it was all brand new under him. He set the course, and it was the right course. And the party has always claimed to carry it onward... But not really. By now you know it's a damn lie. But it was not a lie to Reagan.

So it's okay that Reagan didn't govern as a fiscal conservative (adding $1.86 trillion to the debt) because we had low expectations of him and times were tough?  And, if I understand you correctly, conservative fiscal responsibility doesn't apply if we spend money we don't have on the military --- in addition to the "usual" expenditures such as welfare programs and health care.  Do I have this correct?

Yeah, that's about right. When forty years of Democrat depredations left our military in scandalous shape, sure that's a money thing. And  he did not have a Republican congress to help him along.

No one is going to say there is never a time to use the credit card. That ain't the case. But when you have been using the credit card since Clinton, wracking up gigantic bills, through two Republican administrations where they enjoyed Republican control of at least one house of congress - At some point you start calling people on the carpet.

How about during a pandemic?  Would spending money we don't have to cover economic losses incurred through a global pandemic, in addition to "usual" expenditures such as welfare programs and health care, be allowed under conservative fiscal governance?

You might have a point if there actually WAS a pandemic - But not enough of a point to cover twenty friggin trillion dollars, much of which funded Democrat pet projects, not pandemics.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Because it was all brand new under him.

What was brand new under Ronald Reagan?

Yeah, that's about right. When forty years of Democrat depredations left our military in scandalous shape, sure that's a money thing. And  he did not have a Republican congress to help him along.

The military after eight years of Obama didn't even have bullets.  Are you agreeing that the debt President Trump incurred to rebuild the military was necessary and money well spent?

No one is going to say there is never a time to use the credit card.

First time for everything.  I think I'll just luxuriate in this admission from  "Mr. One Issue Only: The Debt! The Debt! Dammit! The Debt!".   

[roamer_1]

What was brand new under Ronald Reagan?

The consolidation and implementation of the Christian Right into the Conservative Coalition.

The military after eight years of Obama didn't even have bullets. 

Bullcrap.

Are you agreeing that the debt President Trump incurred to rebuild the military was necessary and money well spent?

TWENTY_FRIGGIN_TRILLION_DOLLARS.
No justification possible.
Next question.

First time for everything.  I think I'll just luxuriate in this admission from  "Mr. One Issue Only: The Debt! The Debt! Dammit! The Debt!".   

No admission whatsoever.  And again, I am plenty critical of more than just debt.

[Lincolncollector]

All the news reports mention is the $1,400 checks many Americans are going to get from the government, which given the size of the “stimulus bill” at almost $2 trillion, is like a wart on the back of a hog. The American people will not wake up until our monetary system collapses, and the dollar is worth nothing.

It’s going to happen eventually. This country is no different from any other country that has “turned on the printing presses” and massively increased the money supply to fund government programs. The so-called “New Monetary Policy” is a political farce.