The Crippling Cost of Hydrogen

[rangerrebew]

   
The Crippling Cost of Hydrogen
February 1, 2021
tags: hydrogen

By Paul Homewood

 

 Timera uncover the dirty secret behind the propose hydrogen roll out – its cost.


“We do not believe any group of men adequate enough or wise enough to operate without scrutiny or without criticism. We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it, that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. We know that in secrecy error undetected will flourish and subvert”. – J Robert Oppenheimer.

 
As I have repeatedly pointed out,the production of hydrogen is intrinsically a costly and wasteful process, which involves taking energy and processing it to produce less energy than you started with.

We can see that so-called grey hydrogen costs about double the cost of natural gas. Grey hydrogen, of course, is produced by steam reforming natural gas, an expensive process which wastes a lot of the gas input. Crucially, however, it also produces masses of CO2.

Hence the need for blue hydrogen, which adds carbon capture and storage (CCS) to the steam reforming process. This will increase costs further, even supposing the process can be made to work. In any event, CCS does not remove all of the CO2, and the upstream emissions from the natural gas production and shipping also need to be counted.

https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2021/02/01/the-crippling-cost-of-hydrogen/

[Hoodat]

The key is to unlink hydrogen to natural gas, and to link it to electricity instead.  And then drive electricity costs below that of carbon fuels.  Until that happens, hydrogen will not be an option.

As for shipping, power lines are already in existence.  Don't need to ship hydrogen.

[thackney]

The key is to unlink hydrogen to natural gas, and to link it to electricity instead.  And then drive electricity costs below that of carbon fuels.  Until that happens, hydrogen will not be an option.

That sounds a lot like "all you need to do is reverse gravity".

[Hoodat]

That sounds a lot like "all you need to do is reverse gravity".

Yay, somebody gets it!

But seriously though, let's say there is some technological breakthrough (e.g. cold fusion, inexpensive windmills made out of cardboard, Galt-style static electricity harvesting) that cuts electricity production by two-thirds, then hydrogen (exclusively as a means to store electricity) could work. 

[thackney]

Yay, somebody gets it!

But seriously though, let's say there is some technological breakthrough (e.g. cold fusion, inexpensive windmills made out of cardboard, Galt-style static electricity harvesting) that cuts electricity production by two-thirds, then hydrogen (exclusively as a means to store electricity) could work.

I've been on projects using hydrogen in refinery process.  Most people do not understand the large energy loss of compressing such a low specific gravity gas like hydrogen.  And without massive compression, you will need an semi-trailer to haul your fuel tank.

[Hoodat]

I've been on projects using hydrogen in refinery process.  Most people do not understand the large energy loss of compressing such a low specific gravity gas like hydrogen.  And without massive compression, you will need an semi-trailer to haul your fuel tank.

You will find that your tank leaks, too.  Hydrogen passes straight through the walls.  Around 1% per day.

For fuel cell vehicles, it can be stored safely as sodium borohydride.

NaBH₄ + 2 H₂O → NaBO₂ + 4 H₂

[Elderberry]

My only experience with hydrogen was when I was working as a transformer engineer where we made custom hi-temp downhole transformers and a salesman gave me a demo welding lead wires to the windings, with a "Brown's Gas" torch instead of soldering them. I liked those oxyhydrogen torches.

[thackney]

For fuel cell vehicles, it can be stored safely as sodium borohydride.

I remember.  I saw the Chrysler Natrium at the US Borax mine nearly 20 years ago.

https://www.allpar.com/threads/chrysler-fuel-cell-vehicles.229342/#post-1085223440

[Sled Dog]

The key is to use natural gas, instead.

Since CO2 is less effective than CH4, every molecule of methane converted to CO2 reduces the thickness of the AIDS quilt smothering Mother Earth and panicking the Rodents.

Or....we can just end the government financing of these boondoggles and suddenly only the more efficient uses of energy will be forthcoming...which will pretty much end the H2 scam in it's tracks.

Hydrogen is a very pesky molecule to keep imprisoned, anyway.   Methane is so much easier to handle. 

[Elderberry]

https://www.energy.gov/eere/fuelcells/hydrogen-storage

The Fuel Cell Technologies Office (FCTO) is developing onboard automotive hydrogen storage systems that allow for a driving range of more than 300 miles while meeting cost, safety, and performance requirements.

On a mass basis, hydrogen has nearly three times the energy content of gasoline—120 MJ/kg for hydrogen versus 44 MJ/kg for gasoline. On a volume basis, however, the situation is reversed; liquid hydrogen has a density of 8 MJ/L whereas gasoline has a density of 32 MJ/L, as shown in the figure comparing energy densities of fuels based on lower heating values. Onboard hydrogen storage capacities of 5–13 kg hydrogen will be required to meet the driving range for the full range of light-duty vehicle platforms.

[thackney]

On a mass basis, hydrogen has nearly three times the energy content of gasoline—120 MJ/kg for hydrogen versus 44 MJ/kg for gasoline.

This is the only basis that makes sense for using hydrogen, ie rockets with massive funding.

On a volume basis, however, the situation is reversed; liquid hydrogen has a density of 8 MJ/L whereas gasoline has a density of 32 MJ/L, as shown in the figure comparing energy densities of fuels based on lower heating values. Onboard hydrogen storage capacities of 5–13 kg hydrogen will be required to meet the driving range for the full range of light-duty vehicle platforms.

But in the real world for the rest of us without access to other people's wallets, petroleum products.