Author Topic: Losing our religion… history… and freedom  (Read 2706 times)

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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Losing our religion… history… and freedom
« Reply #50 on: December 27, 2020, 11:46:44 pm »
I don't "refuse" to see anything, I just won't be conned. 

... He says, walking right down the garden path...  :laugh:

Offline Knox27

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Re: Losing our religion… history… and freedom
« Reply #51 on: December 27, 2020, 11:53:35 pm »
No. Slavery was already going out the window - The inconvenient truth is that the South relied upon that labor and required time for transition. It was leaving anywat, and probablywithin a decade it would have been gone on its own.

No, self-determination was the biggest piece of the puzzle. And state sovereignty in relationship to that self-determination...

You don;t have the slightest idea what you are talking about. Try some history before parroting talking points.

Then they should go make their own damn public spaces, not tear someone else's down. THAT is a little thing called federalism, and is the basis of the distribution of liberty. Folks are different. Leave em be and go do your own damn thing someplace else. Time will prove out which will win out.

No it isn't. It's about statism vs. federalism.

Someone as educated as you must have read the declaration of causes of seceding states.  Because I seem to recall the primary reason for all the states was the issue of slavery.  Thats it.  They wanted to be able to keep owning black people.  You can dress it up all you want with states rights, federalism, self determination, labor, yadda yadda yadda...its all rubbish.  It was primarily about slavery and I know this because the states very clearly said so. And you know it too.

And then you go and say "they should get their own public spaces".  What a thing to say.  Go one step further while you're at it and say their own schools.  Worry less about philandering, and more about protecting the minority from the tyranny of the majority.  The south has a history of problems with that.



Offline XenaLee

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Re: Losing our religion… history… and freedom
« Reply #52 on: December 28, 2020, 12:12:41 am »
... He says, walking right down the garden path...  :laugh:

There is no sincerity there.   Ergo, there is no "walking right down the garden path".

Just...

sayin.
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Losing our religion… history… and freedom
« Reply #53 on: December 28, 2020, 12:13:20 am »
Someone as educated as you must have read the declaration of causes of seceding states.  Because I seem to recall the primary reason for all the states was the issue of slavery.  Thats it.  They wanted to be able to keep owning black people.  You can dress it up all you want with states rights, federalism, self determination, labor, yadda yadda yadda...its all rubbish.  It was primarily about slavery and I know this because the states very clearly said so. And you know it too.


It would benefit you greatly to explore the matter further. No, the matter at hand was that the states respectively got a bone in their craw from folks telling them what to do. Slavery was already on the way out. Share cropping was already instituted BEFORE the war in order to create a viable solution to the problem - Simply shutting slavery off was a huge logistical concern for the south - and not so much for the industrial north who already had the Irish and Italians to kick around. There wasn't yet a way to stop using slavery in the south. So what, just shut OFF the plantations that paid all the taxes and supported all the townships?? What then? The only other tax base they had was poor dirt farmers on small spreads that paid little or nothing in taxes and were barely hanging on. Shut OFF the ports and shipping for the same reason - Simply not feasible.

Quote
And then you go and say "they should get their own public spaces".  What a thing to say.  Go one step further while you're at it and say their own schools.  Worry less about philandering, and more about protecting the minority from the tyranny of the majority.  The south has a history of problems with that.

it should be wholly evident by now that there is just as much problem in the tyranny of the minority too - And thus federalism. Your thinking is entirely statist. One-size-fits-all. Why?

Offline HoustonSam

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Re: Losing our religion… history… and freedom
« Reply #54 on: December 28, 2020, 12:13:27 am »
Someone as educated as you must have read the declaration of causes of seceding states.  Because I seem to recall the primary reason for all the states was the issue of slavery.  Thats it.

That's been widely stated for a number of years as a rebuttal to the "Lost Cause" school of history, but it isn't true.

Several, not all, of the original seven Confederate states issued declarations of cause.  Mississippi did as you say - they defined their cause as the cause of slavery, no ifs, ands, or buts.  The other states that issued similar declarations mentioned slavery among other causes.  Some of the the original seven issued no statement of cause.

The states of the upper South - Arkansas, Tennessee, North Carolina, and Virginia - all held referenda or secession conventions, and all affirmatively declined secession when the case was made strictly about slavery.  In each of these states the question of secession was formally put to the people, or the convention, and the question *when equated with the cause of slavery* was voted down.  After Lincoln called for an army of invasion, each of these states raised the question again, and each chose to secede.  The states of the upper South seceded strictly as a principle of states' rights, not as a defense of slavery.

You can find the secession declarations of cause here : https://www.battlefields.org/learn/primary-sources/declaration-causes-seceding-states.  You'll notice only a minority of the eleven Confederate states issued a declaration of cause.

Now one can argue fairly that even the states of the upper South voluntarily joined the Confederacy, the constitution of which required slavery.  And it's fair to cite Confederate VP Alexander Hamilton Stevens' Cornerstone Speech, which equated the Confederacy with the perpetuation of slavery.  But neither of those arguments demonstrate that all the Confederate states seceded strictly to maintain slavery.

For some of the Confederate states, the cause of secession was slavery.  For others, the cause was states' rights.  For all, and for the Union states, the cause of war was the insistence that the Southern states be held within a union they no longer desired.
James 1:20

Offline libertybele

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Re: Losing our religion… history… and freedom
« Reply #55 on: December 28, 2020, 12:22:55 am »
Someone as educated as you must have read the declaration of causes of seceding states.  Because I seem to recall the primary reason for all the states was the issue of slavery.  Thats it.  They wanted to be able to keep owning black people.  You can dress it up all you want with states rights, federalism, self determination, labor, yadda yadda yadda...its all rubbish.  It was primarily about slavery and I know this because the states very clearly said so. And you know it too.

And then you go and say "they should get their own public spaces".  What a thing to say.  Go one step further while you're at it and say their own schools.  Worry less about philandering, and more about protecting the minority from the tyranny of the majority.  The south has a history of problems with that.

  Antifa and BLM are the supposed minority yet they have been allowed to violently riot, tear down statues, destroy property, rob, beat, and murder those who are among the majority.  Where is the protection for the majority from the tyranny of the minority??

Slavery was not limited to blacks; there were white slaves as well.     
Romans 12:16-21

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Offline Knox27

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Re: Losing our religion… history… and freedom
« Reply #56 on: December 28, 2020, 01:02:29 am »
That's been widely stated for a number of years as a rebuttal to the "Lost Cause" school of history, but it isn't true.

Several, not all, of the original seven Confederate states issued declarations of cause.  Mississippi did as you say - they defined their cause as the cause of slavery, no ifs, ands, or buts.  The other states that issued similar declarations mentioned slavery among other causes.  Some of the the original seven issued no statement of cause.

The states of the upper South - Arkansas, Tennessee, North Carolina, and Virginia - all held referenda or secession conventions, and all affirmatively declined secession when the case was made strictly about slavery.  In each of these states the question of secession was formally put to the people, or the convention, and the question *when equated with the cause of slavery* was voted down.  After Lincoln called for an army of invasion, each of these states raised the question again, and each chose to secede.  The states of the upper South seceded strictly as a principle of states' rights, not as a defense of slavery.

You can find the secession declarations of cause here : https://www.battlefields.org/learn/primary-sources/declaration-causes-seceding-states.  You'll notice only a minority of the eleven Confederate states issued a declaration of cause.

Now one can argue fairly that even the states of the upper South voluntarily joined the Confederacy, the constitution of which required slavery.  And it's fair to cite Confederate VP Alexander Hamilton Stevens' Cornerstone Speech, which equated the Confederacy with the perpetuation of slavery.  But neither of those arguments demonstrate that all the Confederate states seceded strictly to maintain slavery.

For some of the Confederate states, the cause of secession was slavery.  For others, the cause was states' rights.  For all, and for the Union states, the cause of war was the insistence that the Southern states be held within a union they no longer desired.

@HoustonSam

I don't have a particularly positive view of those conditional unionists who, along with the strict unionists voted to stay...pending action by Lincoln.  Reeks of wanting it both ways.  And while the declaration by the state of Virginia does not mention explicitly slavery as a reason, it does bother to label the south as "slave-holding states".  Not southern states, they qualified it as slave owning.  And no delegates said anything negative about slavery and I believe were all slave-owners.  So yes, it goes a long way that the northern southern states joined a country in which slavery was guaranteed.  So this really informs my view of the CSA.  I can't help but to think states rights is lipstick on a pig.  Wink wink...the states right was the right to slavery.  But I see your point about the northern states not explicitly saying it.

Moreover and I think more importanly (because its more recent I guess), to the monuments and statues that were the original issue here (well, not original...) they were put up largely in 1900 to 1920 mostly by the United daughters of the Confederacy.  A group that supported the klan and defended slave-owners.  The statues were put up after Jim Crow laws were enacted and coincided with the 2nd rise of the KKK.  So to me there is no argument *why* the monuments went up, and I have little sympathy for reasons they should remain standing.

People may say that slaveowners needed to be viewed in the context of the day, but in the mid 19th century there were a lot of people strongly against it.  People knew.  They just wanted to stay wealthy.

Offline Knox27

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Re: Losing our religion… history… and freedom
« Reply #57 on: December 28, 2020, 01:09:51 am »
It would benefit you greatly to explore the matter further. No, the matter at hand was that the states respectively got a bone in their craw from folks telling them what to do. Slavery was already on the way out. Share cropping was already instituted BEFORE the war in order to create a viable solution to the problem - Simply shutting slavery off was a huge logistical concern for the south - and not so much for the industrial north who already had the Irish and Italians to kick around. There wasn't yet a way to stop using slavery in the south. So what, just shut OFF the plantations that paid all the taxes and supported all the townships?? What then? The only other tax base they had was poor dirt farmers on small spreads that paid little or nothing in taxes and were barely hanging on. Shut OFF the ports and shipping for the same reason - Simply not feasible.

it should be wholly evident by now that there is just as much problem in the tyranny of the minority too - And thus federalism. Your thinking is entirely statist. One-size-fits-all. Why?

I can't believe it needs to be said plainly...but yes...you 100 percent immediately stop owning people (which would have been better for the south than what wound up happening).  You want the excuse that the southern states needed time to transition?  They would have kept owning people for as long as they could have. 

How long should someone be allowed to keep committing heinous crime?  2 years? 5?



Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Losing our religion… history… and freedom
« Reply #58 on: December 28, 2020, 01:27:15 am »
I can't believe it needs to be said plainly...but yes...you 100 percent immediately stop owning people (which would have been better for the south than what wound up happening).  You want the excuse that the southern states needed time to transition?  They would have kept owning people for as long as they could have. 

How long should someone be allowed to keep committing heinous crime?  2 years? 5?

According to Al Sharpton, O'Bastard et al, evil white people enslaved the virtuous black people starting 400 years ago, and it continues to this day.  The only remedy is for whites to turn over all their property to black people, and become willing slaves to the new overlords.

"The slave toiling under the lash does not yearn for freedom...he yearns to be wielding the lash over his former Master."

Convince me I'm wrong.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2020, 01:28:33 am by Cyber Liberty »
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Offline Knox27

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Re: Losing our religion… history… and freedom
« Reply #59 on: December 28, 2020, 01:35:39 am »
According to Al Sharpton, O'Bastard et al, evil white people enslaved the virtuous black people starting 400 years ago, and it continues to this day.  The only remedy is for whites to turn over all their property to black people, and become willing slaves to the new overlords.

"The slave toiling under the lash does not yearn for freedom...he yearns to be wielding the lash over his former Master."

Convince me I'm wrong.

Convince you you're wrong that black people want to enslave you?

I can't.  You want to believe black people are evil and want to enslave you.  Go right on believing it. Lol.

But they won't. It's been outlawed.

And it doesn't change the fact that confederate statues represent the men who fought to preserve slavery.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Losing our religion… history… and freedom
« Reply #60 on: December 28, 2020, 01:48:01 am »
Convince you you're wrong that black people want to enslave you?

I can't.  You want to believe black people are evil and want to enslave you.  Go right on believing it. Lol.

But they won't. It's been outlawed.

And it doesn't change the fact that confederate statues represent the men who fought to preserve slavery.

"It's been outlawed!"  LOL!  So has fraud and rioting.  That sure stopped them.

I just listen to what they're demanding, which apparently you don't hear in the same manner you see a fair and square election.  You are top-notch in filtering the facts you wish to believe (or not) yourself there, fella.
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Offline Knox27

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Re: Losing our religion… history… and freedom
« Reply #61 on: December 28, 2020, 01:58:09 am »
"It's been outlawed!"  LOL!  So has fraud and rioting.  That sure stopped them.

I just listen to what they're demanding, which apparently you don't hear in the same manner you see a fair and square election.  You are top-notch in filtering the facts you wish to believe (or not) yourself there, fella.

I'm not sure what is happening here.  Are you worried you will be enslaved by black people?  Is this hyperbole?

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Losing our religion… history… and freedom
« Reply #62 on: December 28, 2020, 02:01:26 am »
I'm not sure what is happening here.  Are you worried you will be enslaved by black people?  Is this hyperbole?

I'm not worried, and you are FOS if you think I am.  Ascribing emotion to others that does not exist is troll behavior.  My tolerance just ended.
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Losing our religion… history… and freedom
« Reply #63 on: December 28, 2020, 02:05:07 am »
I can't believe it needs to be said plainly...but yes...you 100 percent immediately stop owning people (which would have been better for the south than what wound up happening).  You want the excuse that the southern states needed time to transition?  They would have kept owning people for as long as they could have. 

How long should someone be allowed to keep committing heinous crime?  2 years? 5?

Ahh, but you only get to say that with YOUR -pardon the expression- **privileged** perspective. At the time, the idea of ALL MEN being free and equal was a drastic and new concept. With the exception of Britain and her daughters, and writ large among those, the United States , slavery was literally the norm, throughout the history of Man. So YES there was a practical and needful transition.

What seems so apparent and heinous to you was being displaced by an entirely new thing at the time... and for the FIRST time, ever.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2020, 02:12:26 am by roamer_1 »

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Losing our religion… history… and freedom
« Reply #64 on: December 28, 2020, 02:06:29 am »
For that matter, with the exception of Christendom, slavery is STILL very much the norm, even to this day.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Losing our religion… history… and freedom
« Reply #65 on: December 28, 2020, 02:09:50 am »
According to Al Sharpton, O'Bastard et al, evil white people enslaved the virtuous black people starting 400 years ago, and it continues to this day.  The only remedy is for whites to turn over all their property to black people, and become willing slaves to the new overlords.

"The slave toiling under the lash does not yearn for freedom...he yearns to be wielding the lash over his former Master."

Convince me I'm wrong.

No, you are not wrong, and that is predictably how it will go, as we swirl along on our path down the drain.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2020, 02:10:36 am by roamer_1 »

Offline LMAO

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Re: Losing our religion… history… and freedom
« Reply #66 on: December 28, 2020, 02:19:30 am »
And it doesn't change the fact that confederate statues represent the men who fought to preserve slavery.

Your statement is true and if cities and states vote to take down such statues and monuments, that's fine with me.

The issue for me is not the preservation of statues  but those who have decided they will remove such monuments by force through the destruction of property.
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Offline catfish1957

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Re: Losing our religion… history… and freedom
« Reply #67 on: December 28, 2020, 02:40:25 am »
Convince you you're wrong that black people want to enslave you?

I can't.  You want to believe black people are evil and want to enslave you.  Go right on believing it. Lol.

But they won't. It's been outlawed.

And it doesn't change the fact that confederate statues represent the men who fought to preserve slavery.


Based on your epic logic, the entire southern culture is built around the institution of slavery.
Aren't you at least a tad embarrassed that an entire message board is laughing at your ass?
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline HoustonSam

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Re: Losing our religion… history… and freedom
« Reply #68 on: December 28, 2020, 03:55:13 am »
I don't have a particularly positive view of those conditional unionists who, along with the strict unionists voted to stay...pending action by Lincoln.  Reeks of wanting it both ways.
Your assertion was that all the Confederate states declared that they seceded strictly for slavery.  I've demonstrated that isn't true.  Falling back on your personal disapproval is akin to moving the goal posts to a position that is actually out of bounds from the field of play.  The question is one of historical fact, not of your sensibilities.
Quote
And while the declaration by the state of Virginia does not mention explicitly slavery as a reason, it does bother to label the south as "slave-holding states".  Not southern states, they qualified it as slave owning.  And no delegates said anything negative about slavery and I believe were all slave-owners.  So yes, it goes a long way that the northern southern states joined a country in which slavery was guaranteed.  So this really informs my view of the CSA.  I can't help but to think states rights is lipstick on a pig.  Wink wink...the states right was the right to slavery.  But I see your point about the northern states not explicitly saying it.
I've had others say in response "a state's right to do what?"  Well in fact they were asserting a right to practice something that was entirely legal.  Immoral, yes, but still fully legal.  And if we assert that a person, or a state, only has the right to do something of which we approve, then we deny them of rights completely.  No legal right needs protection when everyone believes in it.  Furthermore, the asserted right of the 19th century Southern states is not fundamentally different from the asserted right of many 21st century Americans - the right to consider a particular class of human beings merely instrumental to our own happiness because they are not, really, fully human.  The certainty of our own superior virtue ill behooves us.
Quote
Moreover and I think more importanly (because its more recent I guess), to the monuments and statues that were the original issue here (well, not original...) they were put up largely in 1900 to 1920 mostly by the United daughters of the Confederacy.  A group that supported the klan and defended slave-owners.  The statues were put up after Jim Crow laws were enacted and coincided with the 2nd rise of the KKK.  So to me there is no argument *why* the monuments went up, and I have little sympathy for reasons they should remain standing.
While I don't join in it, I can sympathize with the argument that many tax-paying citizens are offended by the ideals of the Confederacy and don't want their tax dollars paying for a memorial to Confederates.  It doesn't follow that the memorials and statues were erected to re-assert the Confederates' values.  It's become popular to argue that the memorials were erected to re-assert white supremacy during periods when racial violence was more intense; it's just as valid to argue that the memorials were primarily erected to mark significant anniversary periods of the war, because in fact that is when the memorials were primarily erected.  The "stump" or "broken tree" motif of many of the memorials symbolizes simple mourning for the dead, not a racial or ideological statement, and the mass-produced anonymous common soldier figure of many other memorials found on the squares of small towns all over the South speaks merely of respect for the memory of people who came before us and endured a difficult time.  Whatever the majority of citizens in those small towns choose to do regarding those statues, through a legal process, is strictly their own business.

And don't forget that when you revere the Founders, you're defending slave owners.  Look up Lord Dunmore's Proclamation of 1775.
Quote
People may say that slaveowners needed to be viewed in the context of the day, but in the mid 19th century there were a lot of people strongly against it.  People knew.  They just wanted to stay wealthy.
Everyone, always, should be viewed in the context of their time and place.  Yes, some were convinced that slavery was evil during the 19th century, and yes, the motive for retaining slavery was material.  The motive for fighting slavery was also, in many cases, material.  Immigrants, tradesmen, and farmers in the free states had no economic incentive to see zero-labor-costs expanded beyond the South, nor economic incentive to see zero-labor-costs perpetuated there.
James 1:20

Offline catfish1957

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Re: Losing our religion… history… and freedom
« Reply #69 on: December 28, 2020, 04:48:12 am »
@HoustonSam



Moreover and I think more importanly (because its more recent I guess), to the monuments and statues that were the original issue here (well, not original...) they were put up largely in 1900 to 1920 mostly by the United daughters of the Confederacy.  A group that supported the klan and defended slave-owners.  The statues were put up after Jim Crow laws were enacted and coincided with the 2nd rise of the KKK.  So to me there is no argument *why* the monuments went up, and I have little sympathy for reasons they should remain standing.



You are a bald faced liar....

Here is the orginal 1895 charter of the UDC .  Show me in that document where the shit around ties to KKK, et. al. Just what is your motive to make up shit and lie?
https://www.encyclopediavirginia.org/Confederacy_Constitution_of_The_United_Daughters_of_the_1895

I am really tired of your freakin' lies and overall stupidity.
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline Knox27

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Re: Losing our religion… history… and freedom
« Reply #70 on: December 28, 2020, 05:21:00 am »
You are a bald faced liar....

Here is the orginal 1895 charter of the UDC .  Show me in that document where the shit around ties to KKK, et. al. Just what is your motive to make up shit and lie?
https://www.encyclopediavirginia.org/Confederacy_Constitution_of_The_United_Daughters_of_the_1895

I am really tired of your freakin' lies and overall stupidity.

@catfish1957

https://blogs.lib.unc.edu/ncm/2018/11/03/remembering-a-monument-that-remembered-the-klan/

In 1926 the udc put up a monument with a marker dedicating it to the KKK.  That is known from the writings of the udc

https://books.google.com/books?id=IS4KAAAAIAAJ&pg=PR6&source=gbs_selected_pages&cad=3#v=onepage&q&f=false

A book written by a chapter leader of the udc
“Every clubhouse of the United Daughters of the Confederacy should have a memorial tablet dedicated to the Ku Klux Klan; that would be a monument not to one man, but to five hundred and fifty thousand men, to whom all Southerners owe a debt of gratitude.”

https://archive.org/details/cu31924083530117/page/n7/mode/2up

Another book by a pro kkk book published by the udc.  This one was for children.

And then there is their attempts to erect statues of "faithful slave mammies"

So tell me again how they are not tied to the kkk.  Tell me the monuments they put up were just to remember the fallen...


Offline Absalom

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Re: Losing our religion… history… and freedom
« Reply #71 on: December 28, 2020, 05:33:55 am »
That's been widely stated for a number of years as a rebuttal to the "Lost Cause" school of history, but it isn't true.
Several, not all, of the original seven Confederate states issued declarations of cause.  Mississippi did as you say - they defined their cause as the cause of slavery, no ifs, ands, or buts.  The other states that issued similar declarations mentioned slavery among other causes.  Some of the the original seven issued no statement of cause.
The states of the upper South - Arkansas, Tennessee, North Carolina, and Virginia - all held referenda or secession conventions, and all affirmatively declined secession when the case was made strictly about slavery.  In each of these states the question of secession was formally put to the people, or the convention, and the question *when equated with the cause of slavery* was voted down.  After Lincoln called for an army of invasion, each of these states raised the question again, and each chose to secede.  The states of the upper South seceded strictly as a principle of states' rights, not as a defense of slavery.You can find the secession declarations of cause here.
You'll notice only a minority of the eleven Confederate states issued a declaration of cause.
Now one can argue fairly that even the states of the upper South voluntarily joined the Confederacy, the constitution of which required slavery.  And it's fair to cite Confederate VP Alexander Hamilton Stevens' Cornerstone Speech, which equated the Confederacy with the perpetuation of slavery.  But neither of those arguments demonstrate that all the Confederate states seceded strictly to maintain slavery.For some of the Confederate states, the cause of secession was slavery.  For others, the cause was states' rights.  For all, and for the Union states, the cause of war was the insistence that the Southern states be held within a union they no longer desired.
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@HoustonSam
@Knox27
Permit me to add a reflection to your discussion about Slavery in the pre-Civil War South.
Rowan Helper, born in No. Carolina in 1829, was the son of a slave-owning farmer who died
while he was an infant. Raised by a wealthy extended family, he was well educated in economics.
Then in 1857, he authored "The Impending Crisis" which addressed the impact of slavery on the economy of the South, drawing several controversial yet powerful conclusions:
* The South was agrarian since the English arrived at Jamestown in 1607 and as decades passed, became sharply divided by economic class; including Farmers, Laborers, Tradesmen, as well as Plantation Owners.
(to be continued after a short break)
 


« Last Edit: December 28, 2020, 05:38:49 am by Absalom »

Offline catfish1957

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Re: Losing our religion… history… and freedom
« Reply #72 on: December 28, 2020, 07:56:23 am »
@catfish1957

https://blogs.lib.unc.edu/ncm/2018/11/03/remembering-a-monument-that-remembered-the-klan/

In 1926 the udc put up a monument with a marker dedicating it to the KKK.  That is known from the writings of the udc

https://books.google.com/books?id=IS4KAAAAIAAJ&pg=PR6&source=gbs_selected_pages&cad=3#v=onepage&q&f=false

A book written by a chapter leader of the udc
“Every clubhouse of the United Daughters of the Confederacy should have a memorial tablet dedicated to the Ku Klux Klan; that would be a monument not to one man, but to five hundred and fifty thousand men, to whom all Southerners owe a debt of gratitude.”

https://archive.org/details/cu31924083530117/page/n7/mode/2up

Another book by a pro kkk book published by the udc.  This one was for children.

And then there is their attempts to erect statues of "faithful slave mammies"

So tell me again how they are not tied to the kkk.  Tell me the monuments they put up were just to remember the fallen...
Your damning of the whole organizaton  because of a few errant chapters, or individual authors?  SHOW ME DOCUMENTATION THAT THE NATIONAL ORGANIZATION BACKED THE KKK!!!! 
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline Knox27

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Re: Losing our religion… history… and freedom
« Reply #73 on: December 28, 2020, 02:43:30 pm »
Your damning of the whole organizaton  because of a few errant chapters, or individual authors?  SHOW ME DOCUMENTATION THAT THE NATIONAL ORGANIZATION BACKED THE KKK!!!!

The documentation is the udc endorsing pro kkk books  in conventions and thier words on the marker of the klan monument.  Their words are printing postcards with the klan flag on them.  You act like this is some secret.  Anyone with the battle flag as their avatar knows full well who the udc is.

But if you want an official udc document declaring support for the klan as official policy, you will not find it as the federal government cracked down on the klan before the udc was formed.  So its not gonna be in their charter.

Denying the relationship between the udc and the klan, or the udc and its relationship with revisionist history and white supremacy is just you burying your head in the sand.

Offline catfish1957

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Re: Losing our religion… history… and freedom
« Reply #74 on: December 28, 2020, 03:34:25 pm »
The documentation is the udc endorsing pro kkk books  in conventions and thier words on the marker of the klan monument.  Their words are printing postcards with the klan flag on them.  You act like this is some secret.  Anyone with the battle flag as their avatar knows full well who the udc is.

But if you want an official udc document declaring support for the klan as official policy, you will not find it as the federal government cracked down on the klan before the udc was formed.  So its not gonna be in their charter.

Denying the relationship between the udc and the klan, or the udc and its relationship with revisionist history and white supremacy is just you burying your head in the sand.

Tying UDC as an entire organizationn to the KKK is slanderous and you know it.  You quickly have cemented yourself as the biggest liar and distorter at TBR.  Many now have also outted you on your left leaning agenda too.   It's the grace of the owner and admins that are mericful and tolerant that your sorry ass allows to exist here.  Never thought I would place a Briefer on the iggy list, but you've earned it, you POS.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2020, 04:12:10 pm by catfish1957 »
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.