Here's where this Elector's thing is going...it will come down to the Senate on Jan 6th.

[Mesaclone]

The move today to have GOP electors in the 5 disputed states vote, is not a symbolic gesture. It is the pre-amble to a constitutional action and will empower a clause in the ECA that tosses the election to the House and Senate.

If the electors did not vote, than the Dem electors from those states would go to the Jan 6th session and be placed in the hands of the VP for counting WITHOUT an alternate set of electors being available. In this scenario, after an objection on the floor from one Congressman and one Senator, the two houses would vote separately on accepting the electors of the 5 states in question...and if they disagree, those electors stand and are counted. In this scenario, under the ECA, both the House and Senate must agree to REJECT the electors.

That said, now that there IS an alternate set of electors who have voted...in the case of such a dispute, a disagreement between the House and Senate means BOTH sets of electors are rejected and there are no longer 270 votes for either candidate. To pull this off, the President and GOP must hold at least 50 solid votes in the Senate in support of accepting the GOP electors...if they do so...and that's a huge if...the Presidential election is devolved to the House of Representatives and a state by state vote in that House. The Senate would then select a VP by individual vote.

The Trump administration is following the Constitution AND the Electoral Counting Act via this process...but again...the key is that it takes 50 votes in the Senate to accomplish this. In a legal sense, having these GOP electors vote today was step 1 in this process...step 2 comes on Jan 6 when one House and one Senate rep object to the counting of Electors from the 5 states in question.

This is going to get crazy, folks....but remember, the path laid out above is entirely Constitutional. It is also in full compliance with the existing law as laid out in the ECA.

[Cyber Liberty]

@Mesaclone

And this...this is why Heels-Up Harris isn't resigning her Senate office.

[HoustonSam]

If the electors did not vote, than the Dem electors from those states would go to the Jan 6th session and be placed in the hands of the VP for counting WITHOUT an alternate set of electors being available. In this scenario, after an objection on the floor from one Congressman and one Senator, the two houses would vote separately on accepting the electors of the 5 states in question...and if they disagree, those electors stand and are counted. In this scenario, under the ECA, both the House and Senate must agree to REJECT the electors.

That said, now that there IS an alternate set of electors who have voted...in the case of such a dispute, a disagreement between the House and Senate means BOTH sets of electors are rejected and there are no longer 270 votes for either candidate. To pull this off, the President and GOP must hold at least 50 solid votes in the Senate in support of accepting the GOP electors...if they do so...and that's a huge if...the Presidential election is devolved to the House of Representatives and a state by state vote in that House. The Senate would then select a VP by individual vote.

It's a good plan and I'm glad the Rs have arranged for distinct sets of electors.  However the condition in bold is not going to be met.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

 

[skeeter]

A string of unlikely events needed here to succeed. But hell that’s how unlikely victories are won.

I’m afraid the weak link is the senate- several GOP senators are up to their krooked keesters in Chinese graft and want to get back to business as usual ASAP.

[Cyber Liberty]

It's a good plan and I'm glad the Rs have arranged for distinct sets of electors.  However the condition in bold is not going to be met.

Not as long as Willard draws breath, no.

[libertybele]

Not as long as Willard draws breath, no.

....he has financial ties with China .... not a chance

[Fishrrman]

Mesaclone explained:
"The Trump administration is following the Constitution AND the Electoral Counting Act via this process...but again...the key is that it takes 50 votes in the Senate to accomplish this."

You'll NEVER get 50 Republican Senators to agree to this.
All the moreso because the person they'd be supporting by sticking their necks out that far is... Mr. Trump.

Ain't gonna happen.
(even though I wish it would...)

[jafo2010]

I agree.  Not happening.  Fantasy!  With Romney the Rat, and the two idiots in Alaska and Maine, along with Ben Sasse, and who knows who else, Trump does not retain his POTUS status this way.

Trump's goose was cooked months into his presidency when he decided to betray the white collar workers of America and rather than ending H1-b Visas as promised DAY ONE of his presidency, he met with tech billionaire oligarchs and decided to increase the number of H1-b Visas in the USA.

And our fine Congress is considering to increase the H1-b Visa numbers even further yet.  So, in short order, the American white and blue collar workers will be bent over by government and billionaire oligarchs in the USA, and this may well be the final nail to bring the USA into compliance for globalists to not worry about the USA as a sovereign nation.  The people in the USA will have no more power than the folks in Venezuela.

[Right_in_Virginia]

I agree.  Not happening.  Fantasy!  With Romney the Rat, and the two idiots in Alaska and Maine, along with Ben Sasse, and who knows who else, Trump does not retain his POTUS status this way.

Under this scenario the Senate would get a vote only after the election moves to the House of Representatives....and then only for VP.

"The 12th Amendment to the Constitution specifies that the “President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted.” That means that in the case of disputes about competing electoral slates, the President of the Senate—Vice President Pence—would appear to have the ultimate authority to decide which to accept and which to reject. Pence would choose Trump. Democrats would appeal to the Supreme Court.

"Alternatively, if at that point, no candidate has the required 270 electoral votes, the 12th Amendment stipulates, “the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote.” A vote of the states would then elect President Trump for a second term. And again, Democrats would appeal that outcome to the Supreme Court."

Continued:  https://nationalinterest.org/feature/donald-trumps-stealthy-road-victory-172235

[Mesaclone]

Under this scenario the Senate would get a vote only after the election moves to the House of Representatives....and then only for VP.

Actually, prior to that RIV. After there are objections to the disputed elector slates from the 5 key states...the two Houses of congress will each convene separately to vote on which electors to accept...THEN...if they conflict and the Electors are canceled, the Election for Prez is thrown to the House and the VP vote goes forward of the Senate.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Actually, prior to that RIV. After there are objections to the disputed elector slates from the 5 key states...the two Houses of congress will each convene separately to vote on which electors to accept...THEN...if they conflict and the Electors are canceled, the Election for Prez is thrown to the House and the VP vote goes forward of the Senate.

There is another legal school of thought that asserts the 12th Amendment grants the accepting of electors solely to the President of the Senate.  This opinion holds that where two slates of electors are sent for one state Pence has the authority to accept one and discard the other.  It would be expected the losing side would petition the Supreme Court. (As an aside, it would interesting to see how they handle standing in this one).

Depending on the Supreme Court ruling, the election could then move directly to the House for a one state/one vote for President and to the Senate for VP.

This may be the more attractive scenario for Republicans looking to bypass another tantrum by Romney, et al or if the Republicans lose control of the Senate.

Interesting times, indeed. 

[kevindavis007]

Time to bring some reality is this:


IT'S OVER FOR FFS!!!

[Mesaclone]

There is another legal school of thought that asserts the 12th Amendment grants the accepting of electors solely to the President of the Senate.  This opinion holds that where two slates of electors are sent for one state Pence has the authority to accept one and discard the other.  It would be expected the losing side would petition the Supreme Court. (As an aside, it would interesting to see how they handle standing in this one).

Depending on the Supreme Court ruling, the election could then move directly to the House for a one state/one vote for President and to the Senate for VP.

This may be the more attractive scenario for Republicans looking to bypass another tantrum by Romney, et al or if the Republicans lose control of the Senate.

Interesting times, indeed.

You are quite correct...because...some scholars view the ECA as being unconstitutional and thus the steps it outlines not applicable. This view believes the only requirement is to follow the process directly laid out in the 12th amendment which COULD be read as placing the “counting” power directly in the hands of the President of the Senate. The vagueness of the amendment on this point is precisely what drove the drafting of the ECA law in 1887 some years after the Tilden/Hayes electoral mess.

[Cyber Liberty]

Time to bring some reality is this:


IT'S OVER FOR FFS!!!

"Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?  It's over when we say it's over."

[Mesaclone]

Time to bring some reality is this:


IT'S OVER FOR FFS!!!

Trump is fighting long odds and in the end will likely lose this fight...too many weak establishment type RINO’s in the Senate. But sometimes winning isn’t the only thing....standing up to the bully and making him pay a price is just as important. As our President, Trump is now fighting for OUR right to have a free and fair election. He fights even for those cowardly morons on OUR side of the aisle who are exulting in this fraudulent Dem win...and within this thread we see these people exposing themselves. But rest assured, Trump will be back fighting to win the White House in 2024 election as the GOP candidate....or as a MAGA party candidate. We chose him BECAUSE he fights this Socialist tide....and that fighting spirit is what will be needed in 2024.

My fervent hope would be for a Trump-Cruz ticket in 2024 IF this fraudulent 2020 election is upheld.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Time to bring some reality is this:
IT'S OVER FOR FFS!!!

Well, if this is the case hopefully your forecast includes the Senate @kevindavis   

[Right_in_Virginia]

My fervent hope would be for a Trump-Cruz ticket in 2024 IF this fraudulent 2020 election is upheld.

Serious question @Mesaclone  -- why do you think we could possibly win when the majority of Republican "leaders" and the Supreme Court are just fine with election and voter fraud?  Who, other than the President, has stood up and said this cannot stand?

[Cyber Liberty]

Serious question @Mesaclone  -- why do you think we could possibly win when the majority of Republican "leaders" and the Supreme Court are just fine with election and voter fraud?  Who, other than the President, has stood up and said this cannot stand?

Because 2022 comes first?

[Mesaclone]

Serious question @Mesaclone  -- why do you think we could possibly win when the majority of Republican "leaders" and the Supreme Court are just fine with election and voter fraud?  Who, other than the President, has stood up and said this cannot stand?

I think the President, helped by men and women  like Cruz, Crenshaw, Noem and many others will purge the surrender NT’s and rebuild a fight-focused GOP that will retake the House in 2022...hold the Senate...and set up an epic fight for 2024. They will also have to take tremendous steps to ensure election oversight in the form of “CLOSE” observers at all counting sites, forensic oversight of all Voting machinery, etcetera. This is going to be the fight of our lives...if lost, than secession may truly be the only alternative. But I think we must rally behind Trump and fight that fight first.