Author Topic: (Updates)Texas Sues Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin at Supreme Court over Election Ru  (Read 17479 times)

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Offline Cyber Liberty

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As usual, @HoustonSam, I agree with your analysis 100%!  I think there are 5 SCOTUS justices who won't fall for it, now that ACB is on the bench.

And Roberts will disappoint, because he has a history of using arguments not made in court, but made up on his lonesome.  He'll join the 3 leftists on any decision in the TX case, assuming they find on its merits.
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Offline corbe

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   Insightful post @HoustonSam



   I distinctly remember when he said Cruz stole Iowa from him in the 2016 Primary and demanded Court action or a recount.
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline Bigun

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For me, it boils down to do we have a Constitution that means something or not, and the resolution of THIS case will tell the tale.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
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Offline HoustonSam

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   I distinctly remember when he said Cruz stole Iowa from him in the 2016 Primary and demanded Court action or a recount.

A lot of talk has occurred since 3 November about "Trumpism" and "Trumpism without Trump."  "Trumpism" isn't a platform or a political philosophy, it's a brand, and that brand is that Trump Wins.  It's not a brand about the country or the meaning of America, it's a brand about Trump the man.  Whenever Trump doesn't win his brand image is harmed so he has to scream and shout that he was cheated.

He wasn't cheated in Iowa in 2016, and he wasn't cheated when Cruz got 2016 Colorado nominating delegates in spite of Trump's popular vote in Colorado.  Trump *is being cheated now*, but he's made it impossible for any serious person to be concerned about it *relating to him personally*.

I do hope SCOTUS will rule in such a way that Biden is *not* inaugurated (nor Harris, certainly).  But having said that, the sooner Trump and his overweening narcissism are off the scene permanently, the sooner we'll be able to think and talk plainly about what's best for the country without confusing that with what's best for Trump.
James 1:20

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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  If SCOTUS rules in such a way that Biden is inaugurated *and* that the actions taken in the defendant states are permanently struck down and can never be repeated - non-legislative changes to voting laws, inconsistent regulation of ballots regarding voter personal data, observers barred from effectively observing leading to midnight visits from the Democrat vote fairy - this will be a significant win.
It will be like winning one hand of $10 and losing the $1,000 hand.

I would not call it a 'significant win' in any case as our Constitution would have already been assaulted and criminals rewarded, as the majority of citizens already are reported to think..

Yes, it will be better to win that $10 but one remains $990 behind.

And placing in power people who will subvert the Constitution in other ways is not the time to take any type of victory lap.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline verga

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"Fraud" will continue to be the lens through which many people incorrectly consider the case filed by Paxton, and unfortunately among those incorrect people there will likely be some USSC Justices.

I believe the evidence for fraud is very plain, even if it's somehow not adequate for Judicial action.  But the salient issue is not fraud, it's equal treatment of votes among the several states, and within a given state.  Even with no evidence for fraud the case is significant.


Thank you or the clear and salient explanation.
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Offline Elderberry

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Texas vs Pennsylvania - 338 plaintiffs vs 46 respondents (Listed)

https://thedonald.win/p/11R4J77TQT/texas-vs-pennsylvania--338-plain/

Plaintiffs (338): Texas, Donald J Trump, Missouri, Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Indiana, Kansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Montana, Nebraska, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, West Virginia, Constitutional Attorneys, Arizona, PA Rep. David H. Zimmerman, PA Rep. Paul T. Schemel, PA Rep. Robert W. Kauffman, PA Rep. Eric R. Nelson, PA Rep. Francis X. Ryan, PA Rep. Barbara J. Gleim, PA Rep. Valerie S. Gaydos, PA Rep. Brett R. Miller , PA Rep. Kathy L. Rapp , PA Rep. P. Michael Jones, PA Rep. Dawn W. Keefer, PA Rep. Russell H. Diamond, PA Rep. James A. Cox, PA Rep. David H. Rowe, PA Rep.Stephanie P. Borowicz, PA Rep. Aaron J. Bernstine, PA Rep. David M. Maloney, PA Rep. Timothy Hennessey, PA Rep. Jerome P. Knowles, PA Rep. Seth M. Grove , PA Rep. Rosemary M. Brown, PA Rep. Donald Bud Cook, PA Rep. Ryan J. Warner, PA Rep. Joseph D. Hamm, PA Rep. Michael J. Armanini, PA Rep. Keith J. Greiner, PA Rep. Brian Smith, PA Rep. Tara C. Toohill, PA Rep. Carl W. Metzgar, PA Rep. Matthew D. Dowling, PA Rep. Richard S. Irvin, PA Rep. James V. Gregory, PA Rep. Ryan E. Mackenzie, PA Rep. Aaron D. Kaufer, PA Rep. Jack B. Rader , PA Rep. Jeff C. Wheeland, PA Rep. Brad T. Roae, PA Rep. James P. Rigby, PA Rep. Jonathan D. Hershey, PA Rep. Michael T. Peifer, PA Rep. Martin T. Causer , PA Rep. Clint D. Owlett, PA Rep. Melinda S. Fee, PA Rep. Zachary A. Mako, PA Rep. Joseph Emrick, PA Rep. Eric Davanzo, PA Rep. David S. Hickernell, PA Rep. Gary W. Day, PA Rep. Jonathan A. Fritz , PA Rep. Tina L. Pickett, PA Rep. David Millard, PA Rep. Sue C. Helm, PA Rep. Timothy R. Bonner, PA Rep. Torren C. Ecker, PA Rep. Lynda J. Schegel Culver, PA Rep. V. Milou Mackenzie, PA Rep. Marci Mustello, PA Rep. Parke H. Wentling, PA Rep. Kate A. Klunk, PA Rep. Mike P. Reese , PA Rep. Donna R. Oberlander, PA Rep. Tracy Pennycuik, PA Rep. Robert L. James, PA Rep. Joshua D. Kail, PA Rep. Karen Boback, PA Rep. Joseph P. Kerwin, PA Rep. Keith Gillespie, PA Rep. Ann Flood, PA Rep. Jeff Pyle, PA Rep. Daniel P. Moul, PA Sen Jake Corman, PA Sen Kim Ward, PA Sen Douglas V. Mastriano, PA Sen Robert Mensch, PA Sen Wayne Langerholc, PA Sen David G. Argall, PA Sen Scott E. Hutchinson, PA Sen Scott F. Martin, PA Sen Kristin Phillips-Hill, PA Sen Michele Brooks, PA Sen Camera Bartolotta, PA Sen Judy Ward, PA Sen Ryan P. Aument, PA Sen Pat Stefano, PA Sen Michael R. Regan, PA Sen Dave Arnold, PA Sen Mario Scavello, PA Sen John DiSanto, PA Sen Joe Pittman, PA Sen Daniel Laughlin, PA Sen Patrick M. Browne, PA Sen Gene Yaw, PA Sen John R. Gordner, PA Sen Devlin Robinson, Christian Family Coalition, PA Speaker Cutler, PA H Maj Kerry Benninghoff, MI Gary Eisen, MI John Reilly, MI Julie Alexander, MI Matt Maddock, MI Daire Rendon, MI Beth Griffin, MI Douglas Wozniak, MI Michele Hoitenga, MI Brad Paquette, MI Rodney Wakeman, MI Greg Markkanen, MI Jack O'Malley, PA Daryl D. Metcalfe, PA Mike Puskaric, PA Chris E. Dush, PA Thomas R. Sankey III, Ronald H. Heuer (WI), John Wood (GA), Angelic Johnson (MI), Dr. Linda Lee Tarver (MI), Kristina Karamo (MI), US-LA Rep Mike Johnson, US-AL Rep Gary Palmer, US-LA Rep Steve Scalise, US-OH Rep Jim Jordan, US-LA Rep Ralph Abraham, US-GA Rep Rick Allen, US-IN Rep James Baird, US-IN Rep Jim Banks, US-MI Rep Jack Bergman, US-AZ Rep Andy Biggs, US-FL Rep Gus Bilirakis, US-NC Rep Dan Bishop, US-IL Rep Mike Bost, US-TX Rep Kevin Brady, US-AL Rep Mo Brooks, US-CO Rep Ken Buck, US-NC Rep Ted Budd, US-TN Rep Tim Burchett, US-TX Rep Michael Burgess, US-AL Rep Bradley Byrne, US-CA Rep Ken Calvert, US-GA Rep Earl Carter, US-VA Rep Ben Cline, US-TX Rep Michael Cloud, US-TX Rep Mike Conaway, US-AR Rep Rick Crawford, US-TX Rep Dan Crenshaw, US-FL Rep Mario Diaz-Balart, US-SC Rep Jeff Duncan, US-FL Rep Neal Dunn, US-MN Rep Tom Emmer, US-KS Rep Ron Estes, US-GA Rep A Drew Ferguson, US-TN Rep Chuck Fleischmann, US-TX Rep Bill Flores, US-NE Rep Jeff Fortenberry, US-NC Rep Virginia Foxx, US-ID Rep Russ Fulcher, US-FL Rep Matt Gaetz, US-MT Rep Greg Gianforte, US-OH Rep Bob Gibbs, US-TX Rep Louie Gohmert, US-TX Rep Lance Gooden, US-MO Rep Sam Graves, US-TN Rep Mark Green, US-MS Rep Michael Guest, US-MD Rep Andy Harris, US-MO Rep Vicky Hartzler, US-OK Rep Kevin Hern, US-LA Rep Clay Higgins, US-IN Rep Trey Hollingsworth, US-NC Rep Richard Hudson, US-MI Rep Bill Huizenga, US-OH Rep Bill Johnson, US-PA Rep John Joyce, US-PA Rep Fred Keller, US-PA Rep Mike Kelly, US-MS Rep Trent Kelly, US-IA Rep Steve King, US-TN Rep David Kustoff, US-IL Rep Darin LaHood, US-CA Rep Doug LaMalfa, US-CO Rep Doug Lamborn, US-OH Rep Robert Latta, US-AZ Rep Debbie Lesko, US-MO Rep Blaine Leutkemeyer, US-TX Rep Kenny Marchang, US-KS Rep Roger Marshall, US-CA Rep Tom McClintock, US-WA Rep Cathy McMorris, US-PA Rep Dan Meuser, US-WV Rep Carol Miller, US-MI Rep John Moolenaar, US-WV Rep Alex Mooney, US-OK Rep Markwayne Mullin, US-NC RepGregory Murphy, US-WA Rep Dan Newhouse, US-SC Rep Ralph Norman, US-PA Rep Scott Perry, US-PA Rep Guy Reschenthaler, US-SC Rep Tom Rice, US-TN Rep John Rose, US-NC Rep David Rouzer, US-FL Rep John Rutherford, US-GA Rep Austin Scott, US-ID Rep Mike Simpson, US-NE Rep Adrian Smith, US-MO Rep Jason Smith, US-FL Rep Ross Spano, US-NY Rep Elise Stefanik, US-PA Rep Glenn Thompson, US-WI Rep Tom Tiffany, US-SC Rep William Timmons, US-MO Rep Ann Wagner, US-MI Rep Tim Walberg, US-FL Rep Michael Waltz, US-TX Rep Randy Weber, US-FL Rep Daniel Webster, US-OH Rep Brad Wenstrup, US-AR Rep Bruce Westerman, US-TX Rep Roger Williams, US-SC Rep Joe Wilson, US-VA Rep Rob Wittman, US-TX Rep Ron Wright, US-FL Rep Ted Yoho, US-NY Rep Lee Zeldin, ID LG Janice McGeachin, AK Sen Lora Reinbold, AK Rep David Eastman, AK Rep Ron Gillham, AK Rep Christopher Kurka, AK Rep Kevin McCabe, AK Rep Tom McKay, AK Rep George Rauscher, AZ Rep Nancy Barto, AZ Rep Frank Carroll, AZ Rep John Fillmore, AZ Rep Mark Finchem, AZ Rep Travis Grantham, AZ Rep Anthony Kern, AZ Rep David Livingston, AZ Rep Steve Pierrce, AZ Rep Bret Roberts, AZ Sen Sylvia Allen, AZ Sen Sonny Borelli, AZ Sen David Gowan, AZ Sen Kelly Townsend, ID Rep Ben Adams, ID Rep Sage Dixon, ID Rep Terry Gestrin, ID Rep Priscilla Giddings, ID Rep Karey Hanks, ID Rep Ryan Kerby, ID Rep Dorothy Moon, ID Rep Ronald Nate, ID Rep Heather Scott, ID Rep Bruce Skaug, ID Rep Charlie Shepherd, ID Rep Steve Thayn, ID Rep Aaron von Ehlinger, ID Rep John Vander Woude, ID Rep Tony Wisniewski, ID Sen Mary Souza, ID Sen Steve Vick, ID Rep Christy Zito, Justice and Freedom Fund, Ronald H. Heuer, John Wood, Angelic Johnson, Dr. Linda Lee Tarver, Kristina Karamo, Gary Eisen, John Reilly, Julie Alexander, Matt Maddock, Daire Rendon, Beth Griffin, Douglas Wozniak, Michele Hoitenga, Brad Paquette, Rodney Wakeman, Greg Markkanen, Jack O'Malley, Joe Bellino, Luke Meerman, Brianna Kahle, Daryl D. Metcalfe, Mike Puskaric, Chris E. Dush, Thomas R. Sankey III, GA Sen illiam Ligon, GA Sen Burt Jones, GA Sen Brandon Beach, GA Sen Greg Dolezal, GA Sen Bruce Thompson, GA Sen Matt Brass, GA Sen Blake Tillery, GA Sen Marty Harbin, GA Sen Lindsey Tippins, GA Sen Tyler Harper, GA Sen Randy Robertson, GA Sen Renee Unterman, GA Sen Jeff Mullis, GA Sen Steve Gooch, GA Sen Lee Anderson, GA Sen-el Sheila McNeill, GA Rep Jason Ridley, GA Rep Trey Rhodes, GA Rep Rick Williams, GA Rep Colton Moore, GA Rep Jeff Jones, GA Rep Don Hogan, GA Rep Wes Cantrell, GA Rep David Clark, GA Rep Bill Werkheiser, GA Rep StevenMeeks, GA Rep Greg Morris, GA Rep Sheri Gilligan , Lin Wood

Respondents (46): Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan, Wisconsin, Carter Phillips, Stuart Gerson, Christine Whitman, John Danforth, Lowell Weicker, Constance Morella, Christopher Shays, Donald Ayer, Edward Larson, John Bellinger III, Michael Paulsen, Alan Raul, Paul Rosenzweig, Robert Shanks, Stanley Twardy, Keith Whittington, Richard Bernstein, DC, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Guam, Illinois, Maryland, Minnesota, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Vermont, US Virgin Islands, Delaware, Hawaii, Main, Massachusetts, Nevada, New Mexico, North Carolina, Rhode Island, Virginia, Washington

Neither (1): Ohio

Offline GrouchoTex

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"Fraud" will continue to be the lens through which many people incorrectly consider the case filed by Paxton, and unfortunately among those incorrect people there will likely be some USSC Justices.

I believe the evidence for fraud is very plain, even if it's somehow not adequate for Judicial action.  But the salient issue is not fraud, it's equal treatment of votes among the several states, and within a given state.  Even with no evidence for fraud the case is significant.

A blunt truth about this is that the red herring of fraud is largely brought on by Trump's own narcissism and the incompetent legal strategy that preceded Paxton's filing.  Making the issue all about fraud focuses the issue on Trump himself and how he was personally cheated; his legions will join in lock-step chants and religious shibboleths to that end.  It doesn't matter whether Trump was cheated, he's simply one person and people get cheated all the time.  I suspect that over the course of Trump's life he has committed at least as much cheating as he's experienced from others.

What matters is whether north of 80 million American voters were cheated due to unconstitutional election processes, and whether we will continue to have a meaningful Constitution.  Trump himself is a distraction.  If SCOTUS rules in such a way that Biden is inaugurated *and* that the actions taken in the defendant states are permanently struck down and can never be repeated - non-legislative changes to voting laws, inconsistent regulation of ballots regarding voter personal data, observers barred from effectively observing leading to midnight visits from the Democrat vote fairy - this will be a significant win.

@HoustonSam
I read in the filing (somewhere near the end) that this was not intended to have the court decide the election results, but that the process itself didn't violate the constitutional provisions provided.

Online Fishrrman

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Will the Supreme Court accept jurisdiction and hear the case?

If not, it could come down to this:

Offline HoustonSam

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@HoustonSam
I read in the filing (somewhere near the end) that this was not intended to have the court decide the election results, but that the process itself didn't violate the constitutional provisions provided.

To me it's clear that the Constitution is the most important issue; to that end, I rate the poker hands differently than @IsailedawayfromFR - I think Trump is the $10 hand and the Constitution is the $990 hand.  Now it's certainly a fair argument that we don't respect the Constitution if people can ascend to office via corrupt means; if there is some kind of strike down of the Defendant states' election laws but Biden is still inaugurated I would consider that a mixed result about which I would have mixed thoughts and feelings.

This could happen if SCOTUS voids the popular vote in the Defendant states but their legislatures choose to award their Electors to Biden.  That outcome would be completely Constitutional IMO, and perhaps it would be sufficient to prevent states in the future from jerking around election laws and vote-counting procedures in the way we've seen here.  But it would mean a president took office through means that we all plainly see are not within the spirit of any meaningful law.

There are many on our side who will test the outcome strictly by whether or not Trump remains in office after 20 January, and I think that's a short-sighted perspective; I'll say it again, Trump is a distraction.  He arrived politically when he rode down the escalator, and he will exit the stage either 20 January or in four more years; the Constitution has governed since New Hampshire ratified in 1788 and we hope it will continue to do so for many more decades.  It can only prevail if voting eligibility regulations are better maintained and vote-counting procedures are made much more transparent, with clear accountability and severe consequences for any who obstruct the latter.
James 1:20

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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@HoustonSam
I read in the filing (somewhere near the end) that this was not intended to have the court decide the election results, but that the process itself didn't violate the constitutional provisions provided.
Exactly.  The Supreme Court cannot decide the winner but can cause one of three things to happen:

1. Let stand the rewarding of electors as is already certified - Biden wins

2. Throw out the vote as unconstitutional and direct affected states to select electors as per Constitution by the legislature - uncertain how the Republican legislatures will handle this so winner is unknown.  If all electoral votes go to Trump, he may have majority; however, legislators might reward some or all to Biden who is likely to have majority.

3.  Throw out the vote as unconstitutional and let remaining states select the President - Biden likely winner

I consider in order of decreasing likelihood 2,1,3
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Offline GrouchoTex

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To me it's clear that the Constitution is the most important issue; to that end, I rate the poker hands differently than @IsailedawayfromFR - I think Trump is the $10 hand and the Constitution is the $990 hand.  Now it's certainly a fair argument that we don't respect the Constitution if people can ascend to office via corrupt means; if there is some kind of strike down of the Defendant states' election laws but Biden is still inaugurated I would consider that a mixed result about which I would have mixed thoughts and feelings.

This could happen if SCOTUS voids the popular vote in the Defendant states but their legislatures choose to award their Electors to Biden.  That outcome would be completely Constitutional IMO, and perhaps it would be sufficient to prevent states in the future from jerking around election laws and vote-counting procedures in the way we've seen here.  But it would mean a president took office through means that we all plainly see are not within the spirit of any meaningful law.

There are many on our side who will test the outcome strictly by whether or not Trump remains in office after 20 January, and I think that's a short-sighted perspective; I'll say it again, Trump is a distraction.  He arrived politically when he rode down the escalator, and he will exit the stage either 20 January or in four more years; the Constitution has governed since New Hampshire ratified in 1788 and we hope it will continue to do so for many more decades.  It can only prevail if voting eligibility regulations are better maintained and vote-counting procedures are made much more transparent, with clear accountability and severe consequences for any who obstruct the latter.

@HoustonSam

@IsailedawayfromFR

I found the quote from the case:

“Plaintiff State does not ask this Court to decide who won the election; they only ask that the Court enjoin the clear violations of the Electors Clause of the Constitution.”
« Last Edit: December 11, 2020, 05:58:38 pm by GrouchoTex »


Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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I read within this

At the outset, more than a hundred years of Supreme Court precedent
forecloses Texas and its amici’s theory that the Constitution requires legislative
bodies alone to set election procedures. In Ohio ex rel. Davis v. Hildebrant, 241 U.S.
565 (1916), for instance, this Court rejected an argument in the analogous Elections
Clause context that a state legislative body alone must structure the election process
when the Court upheld a popular referendum that rejected redistricting legislation
passed by the Ohio Legislature. Id. at 567, 569. Later, in Smiley v. Holm, 285 U.S.
355 (1932), this Court similarly held that a governor may veto a congressional
redistricting plan, even though a Governor is plainly not part of a legislative body.
See id. at 372-73. There, this Court emphasized that the function envisioned by the
Constitution’s reference to state legislatures “is that of making laws,
” id. at 366, and
it is within “the authority of the state to determine what should constitute its
legislative process
,” id. at 372. More recently, in Arizona State Legislature v. Arizona
4
Independent Redistricting Commission, 576 U.S. 787 (2015), this Court—again—
explained that the word “Legislature” does “not mean the representative body alone.”

Id. at 805; see Chiafalo v. Washington, 140 S. Ct. 2316, 2324 (2020) (unanimously
reaffirming states’ broad authority to oversee elections).


So the defense is rewriting what the clear wording within the US Constitution says regarding legislative prerogatives - saying each state can determine on its own what it considers a legislative body.  So their 'Elections Commission or Sec of Elections' is deemed to be a part of its legislative process, and the legislature has nothing to do with the process.

I do not see how this reasoning can hold up if one simply adheres to the Constitution.
The response by Texas to these arguments is tantamount to a smackdown

Pennsylvania changed its deadline for
receiving ballots through judicial, not
legislative, action.
Pennsylvania argues that there actually “was no
state law violation” when the Pennsylvania Supreme
Court “temporarily modified” by three days the
statutory deadline for receiving mail-in and absentee
ballots. Pennsylvania Br. 5. Why not? Because,
according to Pennsylvania, “the state Constitution
required it.” Id. In other words, Pennsylvania appears
to be arguing that state law is not really changed if
the changing of the law is done by a state’s Supreme
Court and it asserts a basis in the state Constitution
for doing so
. Aside from the obviously tortured
reasoning of this argument, there are three additional
problems with Pennsylvania’s argument.
First, the Electors Clause does not contain a
proviso permitting judicial modification of the state
legislature’s manner for appointing Presidential
Electors. A State’s Electors are to be appointed “in
such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct.”
U.S. Const, art. II, § 1, cl. 2. “[T]he state legislature’s
power to select the manner for appointing electors is
plenary.” Bush v. Gore, 531 U.S. 98, 104 (2000) (“Bush
II”). A precursor to Pennsylvania’s argument was
addressed by Justice Rehnquist in Bush II, when he
pointed out that the Elector’s Clause did not permit
10
the Florida Supreme Court to modify the plain terms
of Florida law. He acknowledged this Court’s general
deference to state courts in interpreting state law.
“But, with respect to a Presidential election, the
[state] court must be both mindful of the legislature’s
role under Article II in choosing the manner of
appointing electors and deferential to those bodies
expressly empowered by the legislature to carry out
its constitutional mandate.” Id. at 114 (Rehnquist,
C.J., concurring). As he observed, “This inquiry does
not imply a disrespect for state courts but rather a
respect for the constitutionally prescribed role of state
legislatures.” Id. at 115 (emphasis in original).
Because the state court “significantly departed from
the statutory framework,” its holding could not stand.
Id. at 122. In the instant case, the Pennsylvania
legislature’s statutory deadline was expressed in
unmistakably plain terms: “a completed absentee
ballot must be received in the office of the county
board of elections no later than eight o’clock P.M. on
the day of the primary or election.” 25 P.S. § 3146.6(c).
The Pennsylvania Supreme Court’s addition of three
days after the election was a direct and significant
departure from the statutory framework.


http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,422131.msg2342996.html#msg2342996
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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To me it's clear that the Constitution is the most important issue; to that end, I rate the poker hands differently than @IsailedawayfromFR - I think Trump is the $10 hand and the Constitution is the $990 hand.  Now it's certainly a fair argument that we don't respect the Constitution if people can ascend to office via corrupt means; if there is some kind of strike down of the Defendant states' election laws but Biden is still inaugurated I would consider that a mixed result about which I would have mixed thoughts and feelings.

As I see it, there is no valid Constitution if we permit an extra-Constitutional process to happen to place people into positions of power over us.

Expand your horizon on corruption:  If the Constitution was disregarded in this instance, why would any changes to it be adhered to in the future?  Especially if those corrupt people are given the power to subvert the very laws we have in place (like packing the Supreme Court).

It would be like putting up speed limit signs knowing the police will never issue a ticket.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Exactly.  The Supreme Court cannot decide the winner but can cause one of three things to happen:

1. Let stand the rewarding of electors as is already certified - Biden wins

2. Throw out the vote as unconstitutional and direct affected states to select electors as per Constitution by the legislature - uncertain how the Republican legislatures will handle this so winner is unknown.  If all electoral votes go to Trump, he may have majority; however, legislators might reward some or all to Biden who is likely to have majority.

3.  Throw out the vote as unconstitutional and let remaining states select the President - Biden likely winner

I consider in order of decreasing likelihood 2,1,3

If the Electors from the states are thrown out because of a Constitutional violation, then Trump will have a majority of the EVs cast, and thus the winner.  I don't see how Biteme can win without the votes from the defendant states.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline Elderberry

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If the Electors from the states are thrown out because of a Constitutional violation, then Trump will have a majority of the EVs cast, and thus the winner.  I don't see how Biteme can win without the votes from the defendant states.

Its Majority Over 50%. If neither have 50% it goes to the House.

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Offline Elderberry

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FBI subpoenas Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton amid whistleblower allegations.....

https://www.kvue.com/article/news/local/texas/fbi-subpoena-texas-ag-ken-paxton/269-aac1b3ca-f2c3-4116-a95c-cdef4b41531e

The "Ongoing Investigation" has been ongoing for 5 years now.

Online rustynail

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Sources telling me that SCOTUS is expected to announce today that they will not hear the Texas case.


https://twitter.com/AmandaHead/status/1337444266998706177

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Its Majority Over 50%. If neither have 50% it goes to the House.

If the states that broke the Constitution and lose their EVs, then the threshold of "majority" (50% +1) necessarily goes down, because there will be fewer than 538 EVs cast.  Remember, it's not just "majority," but "majority of votes cast."
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Sources telling me that SCOTUS is expected to announce today that they will not hear the Texas case.


https://twitter.com/AmandaHead/status/1337444266998706177

Who is "Amanda Head?"  No "Blue Check."
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline Bigun

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The "Ongoing Investigation" has been ongoing for 5 years now.

Prosecutorial Collusion in the Fourth Estate: Anatomy of a Witch Hunt, Part 4



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To re-cap this series: The baseless, politicized prosecution of Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton has been a travesty on many levels. Following the recusal of Collin County District Attorney Greg Willis, the matter should not have been referred to mercenary “special prosecutors” for investigation; Schaffer (the unindicted co-conspirator in a RICO case) and Wice (an incorrigible diva) were not suitable for the assignment in any event; the open-ended compensation arrangement agreed to by Judge Scott Becker was both unlawful and foolhardy; the grand jury indictment improperly obtained by the unscrupulous prosecutors amounts to fabricated felonies — made-up crimes never previously prosecuted in a Texas court; the overtly-biased George Gallagher presided over the case as a farcical kangaroo court; changing the venue of the case to Harris County was an absurd and outrageous denial of due process to Paxton; et cetera, ad infinitum.

The worst aspect of this grotesque miscarriage of justice, however, is the ignominious role played by a hyper-partisan, supine, and incurious press corps, which served as the special prosecutors’ obsequious PR flacks. If abusive lawfare is to be prevented, a free and independent news media must play the role of watch dog, not lap dog. The Fourth Estate has become a Fifth Column — a tool of overreaching, scheming, and manipulative prosecutors. Shame on them.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online catfish1957

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The "Ongoing Investigation" has been ongoing for 5 years now.

Sounds and feels like the witch hunt they pulled on Tom Delay a good while back.
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline HoustonSam

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As I see it, there is no valid Constitution if we permit an extra-Constitutional process to happen to place people into positions of power over us.

Expand your horizon on corruption:  If the Constitution was disregarded in this instance, why would any changes to it be adhered to in the future?  Especially if those corrupt people are given the power to subvert the very laws we have in place (like packing the Supreme Court).

It would be like putting up speed limit signs knowing the police will never issue a ticket.

I'm with you completely that extra-Constitutional or non-Constitutional methods essentially mean the end of the Constitution, and the end of any meaningful Rule of Law.  And we agree completely that Biden's campaign has benefited from corrupt and non-Constitutional practices.

In referencing the Electors' Clause, Paxton's suit deals with the non-Constitutional practices (state judiciary interference in state election law), not the other corrupt practices (local officials tampering with votes and vote-counting procedures).  I haven't read the suit, but I don't think Paxton is asking for SCOTUS intervention in the methods of counting votes.  As we have both separately argued in this thread, Biden might still take office through fully Constitutional means, even if Paxton wins before SCOTUS.

All I'm really saying is that defending the Constitution is not the same thing as advocating for the Trump candidacy.

James 1:20