Author Topic: Elon Musk says there is ‘a good chance you will die’ on Mars at virtual summit  (Read 1888 times)

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Online bigheadfred

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My attitude towards it is be bold.

Go for the goal from the start. The engineering problems will be solved in time.

That is the thing. You don't know until you have tried.

Mars is a stretch for now. A permanent lunar base with manufacturing, refueling and launch or relaunch capability is the start for heading out further.

Whether people understand it, realize it, or will accept it, genetically and technologically (cyborg) advanced humans will be the first to have any survivability on Mars, or any other place, except for the moon.

I read an article recently that when man first stepped foot on the moon, the world held it's collective breath, and then cheered.

One thing about Musk. He is a visionary that is actually trying to push the envelope of advancement in a more positive way than the people who run crap like Twitter, Facebook, the MSM, etc. Those people just want to push the envelope full of deplorables and useless eaters. And then toss it in the trash labeled junk mail.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2020, 09:39:45 pm by bigheadfred »
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline EdinVA

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My attitude towards it is be bold.

Go for the goal from the start. The engineering problems will be solved in time.

The question is why?
Why spend hundreds of billions or trillions of dollars we don't have on something that brings very little benefit to anyone other than Musk?
Why not do the moon if we think we need to colonize something?
Why not work on the oceans here on earth?

Offline sneakypete

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That is the thing. You don't know until you have tried.

Mars is a stretch for now. A permanent lunar base with manufacturing, refueling and launch or relaunch capability is the start for heading out further.

Whether people understand it, realize it, or will accept it, genetically and technologically (cyborg) advanced humans will be the first to have any survivability on Mars, or any other place, except for the moon.

I read an article recently that when man first stepped foot on the moon, the world held it's collective breath, and then cheered.

One thing about Musk. He is a visionary that is actually trying to push the envelope of advancement in a more positive way than the people who run crap like Twitter, Facebook, the MSM, etc. Those people just want to push the envelope full of deplorables and useless eaters. And then toss it in the trash labeled junk mail.

@bigheadfred

Musk will remain my hero if he does nothing but pick his nose for the rest of his life.

He had the imagination to launch that red roadster into deep space with a empty astronaut suit sitting behind the driver's wheel,and had it broadcast back to earth.

That was absolutely THE coolest thing I have ever seen in my life. I literally jumped to my feet and cheered when I saw the photo.

For one thing "Imagine for a moment there is an alien race we know nothing of,and who knows nothing about us.

They,like us,are starting to explore space and contemplate the possibilities.

Then,one day,out of nowhere,they see a bright red sports roadster headed their way,with a guy sitting behind the steering wheel.

Talk about shock and awe before they find out the space suit is empty,and it's unguided.

There are practical jokes,and then there is THIS!
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Online DB

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The question is why?
Why spend hundreds of billions or trillions of dollars we don't have on something that brings very little benefit to anyone other than Musk?
Why not do the moon if we think we need to colonize something?
Why not work on the oceans here on earth?

Isn't Musk paying for much of his Mars adventure?

If I private company colonizes Mars don't they get land/mineral rights to much of what they settle on?

We are explorers at heart. We have to get off this rock to have a long term future.

If I were a billionaire that's what I'd be doing with it.

Offline EdinVA

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Isn't Musk paying for much of his Mars adventure?

If I private company colonizes Mars don't they get land/mineral rights to much of what they settle on?

We are explorers at heart. We have to get off this rock to have a long term future.

If I were a billionaire that's what I'd be doing with it.
NASA is footing the bill for most of spacex stuff...
Many articles discussing contracts...
Quote
The two companies are essentially building the same project for NASA, but for dramatically different prices. The contracts, awarded under NASA’s Commercial Crew Program (CCP), are valued at $4.3 billion for Boeing and $2.5 billion for SpaceX. But the preferential treatment doesn’t stop there. On top of Boeing’s already higher contract amount, NASA agreed to pay the company nearly $300 million extra, a new audit by the space agency’s Office of the Inspector General (OIG) has found.
https://observer.com/2019/11/nasa-audit-boeing-spacex-iss-ccp-mission-spacecraft-budget/

Online Smokin Joe

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That's right - Decades, maybe centuries.

I have no problem with that. In fact I would encourage that also... But likely thinking it will take way longer than folks think. Like I said... Underwater cities, then moon base with serious traffic back and forth... Then maybe a station or two half way between... THEN MARS.

Some day, a native Martian may be born... But I will not see it. Nor likely my kids.

I don't think I would have done that. Air is an important thing to me. And being where there ain't any except that manufactured by an unreliable machine... Yeah thanks, I'll pass. I don't mind bucking a stacked deck, but that's some truly long odds.
Well, one of the problems with underwater cities, is that it doesn't seem to take a lot to mes things up. Sure, every place has its drawbacks, but aside from pressure, cold, possible leaks, and constant damp, If you are far enough down to be below the biggest wave base (figure at least 300 ft.), you might as well be a million miles away from that air you like so much (admittedly, I'm partial to that, too.) Everything going in (or out) will have to be packaged for a hostile environment that potentially can destroy it.

The pluses of Space: Not much out there will eat you. Solar power will be available, unlike below the photic zone.
Yes, rocks can fall on your head, but that's really a longshot, and just about everything there that can fall on you can do so underwater. movement is easier with low density media around you and a fraction of a G to hold you down.
As to how reliable that air machine is, well, that depends on the savvy of the operators, and how good they are at getting and building spares. With the right raw materials which may be available out there for towing and refining, and enough know how, you'd be able to make what you need, no Jolly Roger necessary.

And last but not least...If the head office/government abandons you, you can always throw rocks...

While I'd be good with a moon colony first, just to get a little experience, we can dust off the old SeaLab materials and learn what they did. The tech might have been older, but the problems and issues will be basically the same. Keep in mind, though the Moon is different from Mars, resource bases are different, and Mars is closer to the Asteroid belt, which opens up a host of other possibilities.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2020, 03:18:43 am by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Idiot

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I know the pictures of Mars make me want to visit....NOT!  Heck I can barely take a visit to Tucson, without a tree in sight. 

I just don't see the colonization of Mars going well at all.  One little issue and you all die....no thanks.

Online Smokin Joe

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I know the pictures of Mars make me want to visit....NOT!  Heck I can barely take a visit to Tucson, without a tree in sight. 

I just don't see the colonization of Mars going well at all.  One little issue and you all die....no thanks.
Parts of it look like the San Juan Basin...only without the greens. It likely doesn't matter what the outside looks like so much, I think most human activity there would be underground to protect it from the winds.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2020, 05:56:07 am by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online roamer_1

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Well, one of the problems with underwater cities, is that it doesn't seem to take a lot to mes things up. Sure, every place has its drawbacks, but aside from pressure, cold, possible leaks, and constant damp, If you are far enough down to be below the biggest wave base (figure at least 300 ft.), you might as well be a million miles away from that air you like so much (admittedly, I'm partial to that, too.) Everything going in (or out) will have to be packaged for a hostile environment that potentially can destroy it.

Well alright... But Mars is 300 days away bare minimum. That's a long, long time if sh*t goes sideways. That's what I see. Before that can reasonably happen, supply and rescue has to have a much better response time. That's why I am seeing a need for a chain of space stations to narrow the gap, and another in orbit around Mars, able to respond if SHTF.

A moon base would be good practice, and far more practical than going that far out.
 
Quote

The pluses of Space: Not much out there will eat you.

Says who? That particular statement seems hard to prove. You don't know there's a sasquatch till you know there's a sasquatch.

Quote
Solar power will be available, unlike below the photic zone.

I don't know that particular problem is insurmountable. A submersible solar tender on a tether would seem to be a means. And emergency power would only require a ship with a long ass extension cord. That's supposing an 'at sea' scenario... But the whole show could be a facility near to shore with tunnels for escape and utility delivery. Then solar, wind, and shore power could be easily delivered.

And before you think all that a bit too fanciful, You're talking about Mars, dude... How much solar are you going to really get that far away? And I have already addressed the supply and rescue problems.

Quote
Yes, rocks can fall on your head, but that's really a longshot, and just about everything there that can fall on you can do so underwater. movement is easier with low density media around you and a fraction of a G to hold you down.
As to how reliable that air machine is, well, that depends on the savvy of the operators, and how good they are at getting and building spares. With the right raw materials which may be available out there for towing and refining, and enough know how, you'd be able to make what you need, no Jolly Roger necessary.

Well not really. IF you have geothermal that might be a reliable 'big power' source. But where it the power going to come from to run the drills to get at the geothermal? And you are talking light industry at the very least to harvest raw materials and turn them into air machines and whatnot. Power, reliable power is the bottleneck.

Quote
And last but not least...If the head office/government abandons you, you can always throw rocks...

Riiiight... Because that's gonna help. All they have to do is stop sending up Cheerios and then where are you?

Quote
While I'd be good with a moon colony first, just to get a little experience, we can dust off the old SeaLab materials and learn what they did. The tech might have been older, but the problems and issues will be basically the same. Keep in mind, though the Moon is different from Mars, resource bases are different, and Mars is closer to the Asteroid belt, which opens up a host of other possibilities.

Right. The experience is what I am getting at. We ain't got ANY, basically. Sea based or even high altitude based systems would give us WAY more experience than we have now... Maybe enough to start messin with the moon for real. That much is a whole bunch to bite off and chew.

And while I understand the attraction of the asteroid belt, you need heavy iron to go messin around in there. We have nothing at all capable of that. Not to mention the supply and servicing systems to support em.

But it's alright @Smokin Joe ... I think I have finally hit on the attraction Mars has on a Southern boy... All them red dirt roads...  :laugh: :beer:

I am alright with going to Mars, I am. But I don't think we are anywhere near ready for that. Not even close. I think we are a long ways from supporting a moon base... Even a small one with under 10 residents, not to mention enough people to actually DO something.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2020, 03:06:54 pm by roamer_1 »

Online DB

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Parts of it look like the San Juan Basin...only without the greens. It likely doesn't matter what the outside looks like so much, I think most human activity there would be underground to protect it from the winds.

And radiation...

Online Smokin Joe

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And radiation...
There's a fair amount of that in the SJB, too.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online Fishrrman

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A trip to the moon and back... well, ok.

But I really see no point in going to Mars.
What is one going to do when one gets there...?

Online bigheadfred

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A trip to the moon and back... well, ok.

But I really see no point in going to Mars.
What is one going to do when one gets there...?

Try not to die.


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She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Online bigheadfred

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Here is an update. Short vid.

The truth is out there.  :whistle:


Error 404 (Not Found)!!1
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline sneakypete

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A trip to the moon and back... well, ok.

But I really see no point in going to Mars.
What is one going to do when one gets there...?

@Fishrrman

Build a colony and stay. Just like the European settlers to the New World did a couple of hundred years ago.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Online Smokin Joe

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@Fishrrman

Build a colony and stay. Just like the European settlers to the New World did a couple of hundred years ago.
Yep, but not all of those were successful, in the sense they either died out, went home or were assimilated by the locals. Vinland and the Roanoke Colony come to mind.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline sneakypete

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Yep, but not all of those were successful, in the sense they either died out, went home or were assimilated by the locals. Vinland and the Roanoke Colony come to mind.

@Smokin Joe

And the difference  is........?
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Online Smokin Joe

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@Smokin Joe

And the difference  is........?
I don't think the Borg have made it to Mars, so either they are successful, will likely be well desiccated (mummified) by the time the relief crew shows up, or will come back...
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online DB

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I don't think the Borg have made it to Mars, so either they are successful, will likely be well desiccated (mummified) by the time the relief crew shows up, or will come back...

We have to find the monolith on the moon first...