200,000 voters Disenfranchised in Nevada

[rangerrebew]

200,000 voters Disenfranchised in Nevada
“2016-06-07 i voted” (CC BY 2.0) by Robert Couse-Baker


The Public Interest Legal Foundation (PILF) has put out a report finding that over 200,000 ballots mailed to voters in Las Vegas, Nevada, were ‘undeliverable.’

Clark County sent out 1.3 million ballots to registered voters, about 17 percent of which were undeliverable. Nevada has opted for all mail-in ballot elections, meaning 17 percent of the registered voters in the county, with 75 percent of the state’s population, are disenfranchised.

https://www.conservativecardinal.com/200000-voters-disenfranchised-in-nevada/

[verga]

Voting is person, no guarantee, but better than taking a chance with USPS

[Applewood]

Then headline is so drama queen.  Disenfranchised?  Maybe not.  The article says Nevada's voting rolls, like so many other states'. is a mess.  It could be that some of the voters are dead or maybe they moved away.  If the voters moved away within Nevada, it's possible they will have received a ballot in their new location.  If they moved out of Nevada, then they will either receive a ballot in the mail where they live or if there is no blanket mail-in balloting in that state, they can apply for a mail-in ballot or vote in person. 

if anything, I'd be more concerned that this blanket provision of mail-in ballots will lead to duplicate voting.  Someone could receive a ballot meant for a voter who once lived at that person's address, use it to vote by mail, then vote again under his own name.  The voter who once lived in Nevada could also be voting once in Nevada and again at his or her new address in another state.  More dead people could be voting by mail-in too.

In PA, there is no mass mailing of ballots; one has to apply and technically, there has to be a good reason to vote by mail, although I've been told this year anyone who applies will most likely be approved.  There could be fraud that way too, but I prefer that procedure than mass mailings.

What I am concerned about is that melodramatic stories like this could lead to elimination of mail-in voting altogether,  In that case, it will be those who can't vote in person who will be disenfranchised. 

[Hoodat]

Then headline is so drama queen.  Disenfranchised?  Maybe not. 

Yes, the headline is complete BS.  The election is over 12 weeks away.  Nothing is preventing these 200,000 dead/fraudulent/non-resident voters from still casting a vote.

[Applewood]

Yes, the headline is complete BS.  The election is over 12 weeks away.  Nothing is preventing these 200,000 dead/fraudulent/non-resident voters from still casting a vote.

True dat.  And the thing is, even with in-person voting, there are going to be votes from people who shouldn't be voting.  So I don't get the notion that voting in person is any less open to fraud than mail-in voting and vice-versa. 

And if a legitimate voter in Nevada did not get a ballot, there should be some way for him or her to do so.  Leave a certain amount of time for the ballots to be delivered, then place an ad in newspapers or on the tv saying something like, if you did not get a ballot, call this number or go to that web address.   Of course, fraudsters could get one ballot, then say they didn't get it and request another.  None of these voting procedures are 100% fraud-proof. 

[Smokin Joe]

Sorry, I can't believe that people here might be excusing a 20% discrepancy between listed voters and deliverable ballots, as if this is no biggie and mail in voting should proceed.

Am I reading this right?

Or did someone slip a virus into my browser and redirect me to DU?

And then, there's http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,411267.msg0/topicseen.html#new

So why is this a horrorshow Dem FAIL in New York, but not in Nevada?


I do not see the Absentee Ballot going away, a ballot used by everyone from service personnel to those with illness or civilian jobs which will not permit them to be at the polls when the polls are open.

But the conflation of absentee ballots with "mail in voting" seems to be the biggest problem in getting people to realize that it is one thing for someone who can't be there to request a ballot and then send it in, versus sending out ballots helter skelter. Twenty percent, one ballot out of every five?  When polls taken by various agencies put the point spread for POTUS well inside the margin for error in the ballot distribution process, you should be screaming to bring a halt to this! 

[Applewood]

Sorry, I can't believe that people here might be excusing a 20% discrepancy between listed voters and deliverable ballots, as if this is no biggie and mail in voting should proceed.

Am I reading this right?

Or did someone slip a virus into my browser and redirect me to DU?

I'm not excusing anything.  As the article states, Nevada's voting rolls are hopelessly out of date or just plain wrong.  This is true in my home state of PA and probably most, if not all, of the other states as well.  States are notorious for not spending time, money and effort to keep anything -- not just voting rolls -- up to date.  At one point in PA, there was a lawsuit over atrociously ill-maintained voter rolls and a judicial order came down requiring a clean-up.  But that was some time back and I don't know if those rolls were ever cleaned up or if they were, whether they have fallen into disrepair again.

My point is that the problems plaguing Nevada's voting rolls, which account for the undelivered ballots, would also affect in-person voting as well.  No one can really prove in this situation that voting in person will be any less open to fraud than voting by mail. 

[Smokin Joe]

I'm not excusing anything.  As the article states, Nevada's voting rolls are hopelessly out of date or just plain wrong.  This is true in my home state of PA and probably most, if not all, of the other states as well.  States are notorious for not spending time, money and effort to keep anything -- not just voting rolls -- up to date.  At one point in PA, there was a lawsuit over atrociously ill-maintained voter rolls and a judicial order came down requiring a clean-up.  But that was some time back and I don't know if those rolls were ever cleaned up or if they were, whether they have fallen into disrepair again.

My point is that the problems plaguing Nevada's voting rolls, which account for the undelivered ballots, would also affect in-person voting as well.  No one can really prove in this situation that voting in person will be any less open to fraud than voting by mail.

Well, then, considering I linked similar numbers in New York (>20%), we're in serious trouble.

If they can just 'lick 'em and stick 'em' though, it requires a lot fewer resources than actually having people show up to vote.

Like I said, Absentee Ballots are one thing, but mail in voting is not something I think we are (and may never be) ready for, in terms of preventing fraud. Presenting ID would generally take care of in person fraud problems, given that the IDs aren't faked.

[Applewood]

Well, then, considering I linked similar numbers in New York (>20%), we're in serious trouble.

If they can just 'lick 'em and stick 'em' though, it requires a lot fewer resources than actually having people show up to vote.

Like I said, Absentee Ballots are one thing, but mail in voting is not something I think we are (and may never be) ready for, in terms of preventing fraud. Presenting ID would generally take care of in person fraud problems, given that the IDs aren't faked.

What I see is a major cluster-*bleep* in November because politicians are so eager to stamp out fraud in mail-in voting that they will seek to end mail-in voting of any type.  Yes, I know Trump has said he wants absentee voting to remain for the military, but what about the guy on an oil rig in the Gulf of Mexico or the old and sick, or even those who don't want to be in voting in person in an airless cramped space with strangers who could have COVID?  I see more people being disenfranchised in that scenario than I do with in-person voting.

And it would be nice if IDs were required to vote in person, but they aren't allowed in my state thanks to a court decision.  Democrats don't want voter ID, but I doubt too many Republicans do either.  Otherwise, we would have a national requirement for voter ID.  Let's face it.  We are not going to stamp out voter fraud 100% no matter what we do. 

[Victoria33]

The undeliverable ones had moved or died.  When the county got those back, they noted  that by the voters name on the master voter list.  If a voter with that name physically comes to vote, he/she will be asked questions about where they live now.  If their credentials check out, he/she may vote and addresses are changed on the master voter list. 

I heard this morning that Trump will not give the post office any money so they cannot deliver all the mail ballots.  He is trying to stop mail ballots by screwing the post office.

[Hoodat]

I heard this morning that Trump will not give the post office any money so they cannot deliver all the mail ballots.  He is trying to stop mail ballots by screwing the post office.

Fake news.

Postage for mail-in ballots falls on the voter or the State.  Trump has nothing to do with it.  Voting for President is not a guaranteed right.  It is a privilege afforded by each State.

[Cyber Liberty]

The headline suggests there are 200,000 voters sitting around that were waiting on ballots that never arrived, and I really doubt that.  Sounds to me it was more like 200,000 ballots were sent to people who weren't there to receive them, and that is probably because there are a lot of non-existent voters.  ACORN did a lot of bogus registrations in Vegas in recent years, and that means a lot of Mickey Mouses and Peter Rabbits fraudulently added to the voter rolls.

This is a bullshit story.  A fifth of a million ballots were sent to non-existent people.  People who never existed in the first place.  The Rats will play this up as 200,000 poor, disenfranchised people, and as usual they are lying.

[verga]

The undeliverable ones had moved or died.  When the county got those back, they noted  that by the voters name on the master voter list.  If a voter with that name physically comes to vote, he/she will be asked questions about where they live now.  If their credentials check out, he/she may vote and addresses are changed on the master voter list. 

I heard this morning that Trump will not give the post office any money so they cannot deliver all the mail ballots.  He is trying to stop mail ballots by screwing the post office.

Right now the USPS is running an 8.8 BILLION dollar deficit. This is due to inefficiency and ineptitude. Buffalo NY has a main post office and and a slightly smaller on on William street along with a number of small branches scattered around the suburbs. 20 years ago you drop mail into any branch. If it was addressed for Bufalo it went to the Main office and was then distributed. If it was for one of the suburbs it went to William street. Generally you had second day delivery. Now no matter where you drop it, the mail goes to Rochester. It is sorted there and then returned to the Main Buffalo or William street depending on destination. If you are very lucky you are looking at 3rd day,and generally 4th day delivery. They have ben playing this game for years. FedEX and UPS have them beat by a long shot. This is their own DAMN fault.   

[Applewood]

@verga

I don't know -- maybe it depends on where you live.  In my dinky PA town, USPS is rather good.  Some other places, including the nearest big city of Pittsburgh -- not so much.  One of my friends lives in Pittsburgh.  If she mailed a card to me today, it wouldn't get to me till sometime next week.  But if I mailed a card to her today, it would be delivered tomorrow.  My friend has a mailbox a block from her house that is supposed to be emptied daily at 4 pm, but it is well known in her neighborhood that it might not be emptied for days  Then the mail might sit at her local post office for days till it is processed and sent on. 

Fed Ex used to be good here; then all of a sudden, it couldn't find my house anymore.  UPS is not too bad.  A few retailers send merchandise by one of the services such as DHL to my local post office, then my post office delivers the package to me.  I can usually track the package by number and there is an estimated delivery date.  99% of the time, the local post office delivers my package the day before the estimated delivery date.  it doesn't sit on the mail or bounce it around from post office to post office. 

[Cyber Liberty]

The undeliverable ones had moved or died.  When the county got those back, they noted  that by the voters name on the master voter list.  If a voter with that name physically comes to vote, he/she will be asked questions about where they live now.  If their credentials check out, he/she may vote and addresses are changed on the master voter list. 

You understand that not all states do that, right?  Democrat run states tend to never purge the voter rolls as you describe.  They'll keep sending the ballots, not caring if there are voters at the other end.

[Smokin Joe]

Fake news.

Postage for mail-in ballots falls on the voter or the State.  Trump has nothing to do with it.  Voting for President is not a guaranteed right.  It is a privilege afforded by each State.

Actually, it is a guaranteed Right.

Several constitutional amendments (the Fifteenth, Nineteenth, and Twenty-sixth specifically) require that voting rights of U.S. citizens cannot be abridged on account of race, color, previous condition of servitude, sex, or age for those above 18; the constitution as originally written did not establish any such rights during 1787–1870, except that if a state permitted a person to vote for the "most numerous branch" of its state legislature, it was required to permit that person to vote in elections for members of the United States House of Representatives.[1] In the absence of a specific federal law or constitutional provision, each state is given considerable discretion to establish qualifications for suffrage and candidacy within its own respective jurisdiction; in addition, states and lower level jurisdictions establish election systems, such as at-large or single member district elections for county councils or school boards. Beyond qualifications for suffrage, rules and regulations concerning voting (such as the poll tax) have been contested since the advent of Jim Crow laws and related provisions that indirectly disenfranchised racial minorities.