Release of Mary Trump's tell-all book moved up to next week

[XenaLee]

You clearly have precious little idea what you're talking about ... and yet you double-down.

If you're at all interested in learning more about the brain chemistry behind addiction and the link between addiction and genetics, take a few moments and Google both. 

Maybe you'll start to understand addiction is not about victimization and no one referencing molecular biochemistry is suggesting it.  Studies on the changes in brain chemistry look for a remedy, not an excuse.

It actually is about personal responsibility and strength of will/character.   And as for those "studies" done, much like many of the studies done by so-called ""experts"" on Covid-19, opinions vary.  And yet "you" double down.

For instance... studies that deemed alcoholism as a disease are not based in scientific fact.  But it did, as intended, relieve some of the responsibility (there's that word again) for alcoholics, since it removed the factor of their "choice".  You've heard the term "enabler"?  Well, when the ""experts"" deemed alcoholism a disease, they effectively enabled alcoholics to remain alcoholics by making them victims of a disease that was presumably 'out of their control'.  I'd call that victimization.  Read this and educate yourself.  It's a long read, but worthy of consideration:

The disease concept stripped the substance user of personal responsibility. A disease cannot be cured by force of will; therefore, adding the medical label transfers the responsibility from the user to caregivers. Inevitably, the users become unwilling victims, and just as inevitably they take on that role.

https://www.baldwinresearch.com/alcoholism.cfm

My point about the genetics theory re: alcoholism is... it's not a valid excuse for being an alcoholic.  Yet many people, especially liberals, use it as exactly that....an excuse.

[Right_in_Virginia]

It actually is about personal responsibility and strength of will/character.   And as for those "studies" done, much like many of the studies done by so-called ""experts"" on Covid-19, opinions vary.  And yet "you" double down.

My point about the genetics theory re: alcoholism is... it's not a valid excuse for being an alcoholic.  Yet many people, especially liberals, use it as exactly that....an excuse.

The decades-long studies and medical research were not conducted to uncover an excuse; but an understanding of the physical addiction process and a remedy for it. The data amassed through these studies is now used in treatment protocols -- including repair of the physical body --- and prevention strategies.  The strongest prevention strategy to come out of these studies is this:  If you have alcoholism in your genetic family, at all, do not drink alcohol.  Understanding and respecting the genetic predisposition is the single most effective way to prevent the disease.

Some, no doubt, use this information as an "I can't help it" excuse.  But this doesn't diminish the validity of the research findings. 

Neither is the data diminished because some cling to their belief that whoever blew their life to hell did so because he or she chose to --- out of weakness.

IMO, in this day and age both judgments should be shunned.

Enjoy the day @XenaLee

[Victoria33]

@sneakypete

A story:
Years ago, I was a school psychologist.  There was a psychologist in Houston who came to our school system to help with school children.  He was a friend of mine.

In the summers, I sold real estate; I was a real estate broker.  This man and his wife wanted to move into our school system district.  They came to me wanting to see houses.  I took them out to see houses and later we went to a restaurant in the Seabrook area, which was on the lake in Seabrook.  It was a club type restaurant.  I was paying for their meal.  I was shocked to see them drinking alcoholic drinks one after another.  The bill for the meal was over $100 due to the amount of alcohol they drank and alcohol didn't cost as much as it does today.

I helped them get the loan they needed for the house they chose.  A year went by and this psychologist died - alcohol had destroyed his liver and killed him.

Why could not this psychologist deal with whatever caused him to drink?  He should have known better since he was a psychologist, right?  Psychologists are people, too.  He could help others, but not himself.  If I had known he was an addict to alcohol, I would have tried to help him.  He was never drunk when working at our schools; if he was, I saw no behavior that suggested he was drunk.  Yes, they both drank a lot when I took them to that restaurant, but one time seeing that did not mean he or she was an addict.

I have a fast metabolism, one half glass of wine, and that is it.  My husband and I went to a Mexican restaurant I had not been to before, to meet our friend.  I ordered a Margarita.  I did not know at that restaurant, they put two shots of alcohol in the drink.  I got so drunk I could hardly speak, I could not function, had trouble trying to eat.  I was still that way when we left there.  I learned from that, to ask how much alcohol is in a drink.

[DCPatriot]

@sneakypete

A story:
Years ago, I was a school psychologist.  There was a psychologist in Houston who came to our school system to help with school children.  He was a friend of mine.

In the summers, I sold real estate; I was a real estate broker.  This man and his wife wanted to move into our school system district.  They came to me wanting to see houses.  I took them out to see houses and later we went to a restaurant in the Seabrook area, which was on the lake in Seabrook.  It was a club type restaurant.  I was paying for their meal.  I was shocked to see them drinking alcoholic drinks one after another.  The bill for the meal was over $100 due to the amount of alcohol they drank and alcohol didn't cost as much as it does today.

I helped them get the loan they needed for the house they chose.  A year went by and this psychologist died - alcohol had destroyed his liver and killed him.

Why could not this psychologist deal with whatever caused him to drink?  He should have known better since he was a psychologist, right?  Psychologists are people, too.  He could help others, but not himself.  If I had known he was an addict to alcohol, I would have tried to help him.  He was never drunk when working at our schools; if he was, I saw no behavior that suggested he was drunk.  Yes, they both drank a lot when I took them to that restaurant, but one time seeing that did not mean he or she was an addict.

I have a fast metabolism, one half glass of wine, and that is it.  My husband and I went to a Mexican restaurant I had not been to before, to meet our friend.  I ordered a Margarita.  I did not know at that restaurant, they put two shots of alcohol in the drink.  I got so drunk I could hardly speak, I could not function, had trouble trying to eat.  I was still that way when we left there.  I learned from that, to ask how much alcohol is in a drink.

LOL!  @Chosen Daughter 

When I was at the height of my career in the late 1970's, I had the opportunity to interact with a half-dozen so-called psychologists, where THEY were the client...not me.

Every single one of them were batshit crazy.  Every. Single. One.   

[XenaLee]

The decades-long studies and medical research were not conducted to uncover an excuse; but an understanding of the physical addiction process and a remedy for it. The data amassed through these studies is now used in treatment protocols -- including repair of the physical body --- and prevention strategies.  The strongest prevention strategy to come out of these studies is this:  If you have alcoholism in your genetic family, at all, do not drink alcohol.  Understanding and respecting the genetic predisposition is the single most effective way to prevent the disease.

Some, no doubt, use this information as an "I can't help it" excuse.  But this doesn't diminish the validity of the research findings. 

Neither is the data diminished because some cling to their belief that whoever blew their life to hell did so because he or she chose to --- out of weakness.

IMO, in this day and age both judgments should be shunned.

Enjoy the day @XenaLee

Yes, yes, yes..... decades long "settled science".  I expected that point to be brought up on this issue.  But you'll forgive me for poo-pooing some of the decades long settled science that some "experts" have come up with.... since globull warming/climate change is also based on decades long "settled science"... and it is pure bullcrap.

Did you bother to read the whole article?  Where it mentions Mann's ulterior motives and that Jellinek refuted his own findings later?  Probably not.  Whatever. 

Again, opinions vary and mine remains in agreement with the article, only one of many that I have read over the years that lays out what my stance is on this. 

Have a great day yourself.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Yes, yes, yes..... decades long "settled science".   

Oh, okay.  You've convinced me.  There's no such thing as "settled science".   Viva! demonic possession!   

[roamer_1]

Neither is the data diminished because some cling to their belief that whoever blew their life to hell did so because he or she chose to --- out of weakness.

IMO, in this day and age both judgments should be shunned.

Absolutely wrong. My father, whom I have praised in your presence, may he rest in peace, did every damn thing he could to blow up our family, and he sure as hell did it in weakness and chose that way, day by day... Even I as I did for some years of my life. The way forward out of alcohol addiction or any other eventually rewards the addict with character, because the strength of will developed to beat it down in yourself day by day, even hour by hour builds that character, and is a big part of healing the man.

It is because of that enormous strength of will that I can see with my own eyes the turnaround he made in his life, and all he did in latter years to remedy what he had done...  becoming an example to generations. And it is in that strength that he is creditable in turning me around to a very great degree, showing to me the character that I too had left far behind.

To deny his weakness denies also that strength, and you are damn well wrong in that, @Right_in_Virginia

[XenaLee]

Oh, okay.  You've convinced me.  There's no such thing as "settled science".   Viva! demonic possession!   

Lol!   You know neither of us is going to be "convinced" of the opposing view, really.   But thanks for the much needed laugh.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Lol!   You know neither of us is going to be "convinced" of the opposing view, really.   But thanks for the much needed laugh.

Never forget:  I'm always here ready, willing and happy to help you.   Always.   

[roamer_1]

Oh, okay.  You've convinced me.  There's no such thing as "settled science".   Viva! demonic possession!   

Surely addiction is demonic. No doubt about it.

[XenaLee]

Never forget:  I'm always here ready, willing and happy to help you.   Always.   

Yes... I will never forget that you are always here... and that you "think" you are helping...lolol.   

[catfish1957]

Surely addiction is demonic. No doubt about it.

Thin line between addiction and obsession.  My wife claims I'd trade her in for a good High Yielding Tax Free Muni....   

[Cyber Liberty]

Has anybody heard anything "new" about the Mary Trump book?  Did it come out yet?  Is there any wailing, gnashing of teeth or rending of clothes? 

Remember that?  It was the topic of this thread.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Absolutely wrong. My father, whom I have praised in your presence, may he rest in peace, did every damn thing he could to blow up our family, and he sure as hell did it in weakness and chose that way, day by day...

I'm sorry to hear about your Dad and the pain his actions left you to deal with.    But this does not change the biochemistry of alcohol addiction --including changes in the brain --- and the most effective medical protocols in treatment and strategies for prevention. 

I'll not debate this further with you.   I sincerely hope you find peace.

[catfish1957]

Has anybody heard anything "new" about the Mary Trump book?  Did it come out yet?  Is there any wailing, gnashing of teeth or rending of clothes? 

Remember that?  It was the topic of this thread.

Mary Who?

 

[XenaLee]

Has anybody heard anything "new" about the Mary Trump book?  Did it come out yet?  Is there any wailing, gnashing of teeth or rending of clothes? 

Remember that?  It was the topic of this thread.

Mary who?   

[Gefn]

A family member said it was a must read. Read it in one sitting the day it came out.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Has anybody heard anything "new" about the Mary Trump book?  Did it come out yet?  Is there any wailing, gnashing of teeth or rending of clothes? 

Remember that?  It was the topic of this thread.

I found this tidbit interesting ... and posted it last night   

MARK SIMONE
@MarkSimoneNY

Media is very careful to not ask Mary Trump whether or not she's ever actually met Donald Trump. She was in the same room in 2017 for a large family gathering. Eric didn't recognize her, having never seen her. She has no photograph anywhere of her with Donald Trump.

2:01 PM · Jul 15, 2020·Twitter Web App

https://twitter.com/MarkSimoneNY/status/1283461681507717126

[roamer_1]

Thin line between addiction and obsession. 

No line there at all. My addictions and my obsessions are often the same thing. In fact, the only thing I can do is try to feed the obsessions that are socially acceptable, and unlikely to kill anybody... Because often I can see little other difference. It's why I can read a million miles of whitepaper and work for days straight, just to crack the encryption on a hard drive... And get paid in pie from an appreciative old grandma who has her pictures back... Or I could do it for another reason. If I am not careful, it's all the same to me. 

My wife claims I'd trade her in for a good High Yielding Tax Free Muni....   

What can I get out of an ex? 

[roamer_1]

I'm sorry to hear about your Dad and the pain his actions left you to deal with.    But this does not change the biochemistry of alcohol addiction --including changes in the brain --- and the most effective medical protocols in treatment and strategies for prevention. 

I'll not debate this further with you.   I sincerely hope you find peace.

Not at all... It is not the pain that is remembered. He and I are square... BECAUSE he fixed it as best as he could. With a monumental strength of character... He has overcome, and I am damn proud of him.

And there is nothing but peace in that.

[aligncare]

Mary Who?

 

I don’t think Mary has actually ever met Donald Trump. In the dozens of hours of media interviews no one has even bothered to ask her that simple question.

The White House photographer takes photos of every person meeting the president, that’s a fact, and Mary was at the White House for that large family gathering after Trump was elected, yet there is not one photo of her with the president—everyone else has a photo, just not Mary.

[Hoodat]

Surely addiction is demonic. No doubt about it.

Agreed.

[Hoodat]

Not at all... It is not the pain that is remembered. He and I are square... BECAUSE he fixed it as best as he could. With a monumental strength of character... He has overcome, and I am damn proud of him.

And there is nothing but peace in that.

Wish I could say the same for my parents.  But that doesn't stop me from seeking peace.

[PeteS in CA]

Has anybody heard anything "new" about the Mary Trump book?  Did it come out yet?  Is there any wailing, gnashing of teeth or rending of clothes? 

Remember that?  It was the topic of this thread.

I dunno. I mean it's out, but dunno if it's selling as fast as they can be shipped from the printer or on course to be in Costco clearance bin in record time. I'm guessing reality is closer to the latter extreme.

[roamer_1]

Wish I could say the same for my parents.  But that doesn't stop me from seeking peace.

In our case, it turned out right. He assumed his responsibilities as patriarch, father, and  husband... He picked it up and walked the line... Better by far than ever before... Tamped down full and then some. What an excellent miracle! Yah is good! By the time he died he was deeply loved and respected... Only my elder sister retains any animus toward him, and that quite likely a defined hate. But she had moved off and was not around to see him change... To this day she will deny he did. And I grieve for her in that. She has spent a lifetime carrying that burden.

To find your peace friend, is simple. Put it down and walk away. Every time. Settle it before bed every night, and write it off. Forgiveness, it turns out, is for YOU, not for them. Without it, you'll chew your own belly out.

Now, I said it is simple, and it is in the saying... The doing can be another thing. But that's where it is.