Release of Mary Trump's tell-all book moved up to next week

[sneakypete]

Drinking alcohol is what led to his alcoholism.

@Hoodat

True,but even more correct is someone with his genetic background drinking alcohol. If you are unfortunate to be born with the "wrong" genes,you have no problems UNTIL you get drunk the first time. That wakes up the monster sleeping within you,and you end up fighting a battle for the rest of your life.

Most of us are lucky enough to be able to take it or leave it,but not everybody.

[sneakypete]

It takes strength of character to withstand life's struggles without giving in to the temptation of an addiction or a crutch such as drugs or alcohol.   Some people have that strength.  Others don't.   Nobody "else" is to blame but that person.   It's just that simple.   And yeah, don't give me that crap that acoholism is passed down or inherited via the genes.   It's BS.  I speak from personal family experience.   But that bit of BS has given the chronically weak a very convenient eternal excuse.

@XenaLee

It is. This does NOT mean you are destined to be a drunk and there is nothing you can do about it. It just means you can't drink alcohol,period. Not even a "social beer". Only YOU are in charge of,and responsible for that happening or not happening.

You might,or might not,want to discuss this with your mother.

Not that it really makes any difference. What is,is,and it's usually better to let sleeping dogs lie.

[Cyber Liberty]

This Topic is probably not a good one to get into the old "Nature vs Nurture" argument....

[sneakypete]

This Topic is probably not a good one to get into the old "Nature vs Nurture" argument....

@Cyber Liberty

Well,it is true that "toes will be stepped on",but if not "Nature versus Nurture",then where?

[truth_seeker]

pretty much, my uncle died as an alcoholic. He went to church every Sunday.

He had personal circumstance, including going to war that effected his mind and he got ptsd. He used alcohol to run away but got addicted sadly. That wasn’t a choice, it was circumstance.

I dont like someone saying he is godless or is a bad person. He died a few years ago.

Thanks.

I understand your points.

You offered discussion about the brain's pleasure mechanism. Dopamine, pleasure receptors etc.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4425246/#:~:text=The%20mesolimbic%20dopamine%20system%20has,pleasure%20generator%20in%20the%20brain.&text=Mesolimbic%20dopamine%20systems%20clearly%20do,as%20hedonic%20as%20once%20thought.

[Hoodat]

do you have xxx with your wife? or pleasure yourself?

Drugs and alcohol have the same effects to the brain. They release chemicals that stimulate a person.

People get addicted to that stimulate.

Try not having xxx with the wife for a few years and see how you get on.

Infact give up sugar, coffee etc and see how that effects you, coffee is basically the definition of a drug.

People who are obese are addicted to food, are they godless as well?

Do you support trump? He is obese, and clearly addicted to food, is he godless?if so I am assuming you are not voting for this godless person.

What does any of that have to do with the sixth and seventh step prayers?

[Hoodat]

I dont like someone saying he is godless or is a bad person.

No one did.

[XenaLee]

No one did.

I mentioned the "weakness in character" factor, but that does not equate to being godless or a bad person.  Hell, everyone I know that is or was an alcholic were basically good people and Christians.  Just... not strong enough to not need that crutch.   My girlfriend in Houston would drink every time she got depressed about something... the exact wrong thing to do. 

[Right_in_Virginia]

I mentioned the "weakness in character" factor, but that does not equate to being godless or a bad person. 

Alcoholism is not a "weakness in character".  It is a weakness in molecular biochemistry.  There is also a strong genetic component governing who will and will not become addicted to alcohol and this explains why some families are hit hard by this affliction and others skate above it.  It has nothing to do with character.

Frankly,  I'm pretty surprised to see"weakness in character"  being debated in the 21st Century -- and on a forum with educated members.

[XenaLee]

Alcoholism is not a "weakness in character".  It is a weakness in molecular biochemistry.  There is also a strong genetic component governing who will and will not become addicted to alcohol and this explains why some families are hit hard by this affliction and others skate above it.  It has nothing to do with character.

Frankly,  I'm pretty surprised to see"weakness in character"  being debated in the 21st Century -- and on a forum with educated members.

Frankly, I'm surprised that you (of all people) are buying into that "victimization" bullshit (it isn't my fault, I inherited it.. it's in the genes!!!  The genes made me take all those drinks!!!).

Oh wait...

maybe not so surprised after all.

[Hoodat]

Frankly, I'm surprised that you (of all people) are buying into that "victimization" bullshit (it isn't my fault, I inherited it.. it's in the genes!!!  The genes made me take all those drinks!!!).

No one is claiming victimization here.  Alcoholics are responsible for their actions.  And our brains are our worst enemies.  It isn't a character issue.  It is a spiritual one centered in self will.

Early in my recovery, someone told me that when faced with a decision, I should spend considerable time using my best thinking to determine what course of action to take.  And then I should do the exact opposite.  It turned out to be good advice, because when I was left in charge of my life, I would always make the wrong decision.  It was only after I learned to trust G-d that things began to get better.  I eventually learned that G-d was able to do for me what I was not able to do for myself.  I realized that I did not have within me the capacity to let go of the bitterness, resentment, and other character defects that I had.  So I confessed that and slowly gave each one over to G-d, placing my trust in Him to do what He wanted, not what I wanted.  But I was never a victim.  I consider it a blessing instead.  Because without it, I may never have developed the relationship with the Father that I have now.   

[XenaLee]

No one is claiming victimization here.  Alcoholics are responsible for their actions.  And our brains are our worst enemies.  It isn't a character issue.  It is a spiritual one centered in self will.

Early in my recovery, someone told me that when faced with a decision, I should spend considerable time using my best thinking to determine what course of action to take.  And then I should do the exact opposite.  It turned out to be good advice, because when I was left in charge of my life, I would always make the wrong decision.  It was only after I learned to trust G-d that things began to get better. I eventually learned that G-d was able to do for me what I was not able to do for myself.  I realized that I did not have within me the capacity to let go of the bitterness, resentment, and other character defects that I had.  So I confessed that and slowly gave each one over to G-d, placing my trust in Him to do what He wanted, not what I wanted.  But I was never a victim.  I consider it a blessing instead.  Because without it, I may never have developed the relationship with the Father that I have now.

Self will.... based on strength of character.   Those strong enough will "self will" themselves to not get addicted to alcohol... or to become un-addicted to alcohol.   It's the same thing (to me) with drug addicts.  It's not 'genetic'.   Too many addicted folks had NOBODY in their family that had been addicts or alcoholics.   And...if it was merely genetic ...my mother and uncle would also have been alcoholics.   My ex and friends didn't have anyone in their family that were alcoholics that would "explain" why they were.  Therefore, the only conclusion is that it was what they chose to do.

Where the spiritual part comes in... is asking for and getting God's help ... when one is not strong enough to kick a habit.   At least, that's how I see it.  So glad you asked for God's help.  That was, quite literally, the first step in your recovery.   

[Hoodat]

The willpower of an 'earth person' does not even compare to the willpower of an addict.  There is no way a normal person could do what an addict can do.  Try drinking a half-gallon of bourbon, and still showing up at work on time the next day.  Try doing this five days in a row.  You may not like where their willpower leads, but their character is much stronger than yours will ever be.  They are driven, and they will not stop until they hit bottom.  No weakness there.

[Cyber Liberty]

See, this is why I wanted us to leave the Nature vs Nurture discussion behind, so we can talk about this loser's book (which is the topic of this thread).

[Hoodat]

I'm done.  I should have remained silent.

[XenaLee]

See, this is why I wanted us to leave the Nature vs Nurture discussion behind, so we can talk about this loser's book (which is the topic of this thread).

Well... since the author of the book blames Trump for his brother's alcoholism.... and since some here don't see the disconnect of acknowledging Trump's non-alcoholism.... yet positing that alcoholism is genetic (inherited)....

it just naturally progressed to that ""disconnect"".   It it was really genetic, why doesn't Trump have it (the so-called disease). 

[truth_seeker]

Self will.... based on strength of character.   Those strong enough will "self will" themselves to not get addicted to alcohol... or to become un-addicted to alcohol.   It's the same thing (to me) with drug addicts.  It's not 'genetic'.   Too many addicted folks had NOBODY in their family that had been addicts or alcoholics.   And...if it was merely genetic ...my mother and uncle would also have been alcoholics.   My ex and friends didn't have anyone in their family that were alcoholics that would "explain" why they were.  Therefore, the only conclusion is that it was what they chose to do.

Where the spiritual part comes in... is asking for and getting God's help ... when one is not strong enough to kick a habit.   At least, that's how I see it.  So glad you asked for God's help.  That was, quite literally, the first step in your recovery.   

The foundation of AA is based in science and moral psychology (spirituality, religion, higher power, metaphysics) Doctors and pastors) Published in 1939, and standing the test of time until present.

I accept the knowledge therein, versus your opinion.

In my experience opinions like yours are often from a bitter spouse or relative. Do you really know very much about AA beliefs? The founders determined their own self will (will power, character,, etc) had not been enough.

[aligncare]

Well... since the author of the book blames Trump for his brother's alcoholism.... and since some here don't see the disconnect of acknowledging Trump's non-alcoholism.... yet positing that alcoholism is genetic (inherited)....

it just naturally progressed to that ""disconnect"".   It it was really genetic, why doesn't Trump have it (the so-called disease). 

However, putting aside the question of alcoholism and hereditary—everyone seems set on that point—the research on brain chemistry is pretty clear concerning the neurobiology of alcohol addiction.

Neurotransmitters in alcoholism: A review of neurobiological and genetic studies

Niladri Banerjee

Additional article information

Abstract

Recent advances in the study of alcoholism have thrown light on the involvement of various neurotransmitters in the phenomenon of alcohol addiction. Various neurotransmitters have been implicated in alcohol addiction due to their imbalance in the brain, which could be either due to their excess activity or inhibition. This review paper aims to consolidate and to summarize some of the recent papers which have been published in this regard. The review paper will give an overview of the neurobiology of alcohol addiction, followed by detailed reviews of some of the recent papers published in the context of the genetics of alcohol addiction. Furthermore, the author hopes that the present text will be found useful to novices and experts alike in the field of neurotransmitters in alcoholism.

Good review:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4065474/

[corbe]

   I realize Mary's a bull dyke but I'll take one for the Team.

[sneakypete]

No one is claiming victimization here.  Alcoholics are responsible for their actions.  And our brains are our worst enemies.  It isn't a character issue.  It is a spiritual one centered in self will.

Early in my recovery, someone told me that when faced with a decision, I should spend considerable time using my best thinking to determine what course of action to take.  And then I should do the exact opposite.  It turned out to be good advice, because when I was left in charge of my life, I would always make the wrong decision.  It was only after I learned to trust G-d that things began to get better.  I eventually learned that G-d was able to do for me what I was not able to do for myself.  I realized that I did not have within me the capacity to let go of the bitterness, resentment, and other character defects that I had.  So I confessed that and slowly gave each one over to G-d, placing my trust in Him to do what He wanted, not what I wanted.  But I was never a victim.  I consider it a blessing instead.  Because without it, I may never have developed the relationship with the Father that I have now.

@Hoodat

If that worked for you,I am very happy for you.

NEVER argue with anything that works.

[sneakypete]

 Too many addicted folks had NOBODY in their family that had been addicts or alcoholics.

@XenaLee

Pray tell how you know what your grand-parents and great-grand-parts did? Other than for a brief period in the 30's,alcohol was never illegal in this country,and neither was opium,marijuana,or any other drug. You could order Laudanum from the Sears catalog by the gallon or case,and the mail man would deliver it.

Just because YOU don't know about it,doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Besides,humans are not robots. It is entirely possible everybody in your large family that you know BUT you are genetically predisposed to become addicts. OR everyone BUT you is predisposed to NOT become addicts. Genetics goes back further than your mother and father,and you could "catch" the "right" genes OR the "wrong' genes from any of your ancestors going back hundreds of years.


 

And...if it was merely genetic ...my mother and uncle would also have been alcoholics.   My ex and friends didn't have anyone in their family that were alcoholics that would "explain" why they were.

And you know this,how?

Therefore, the only conclusion is that it was what they chose to do.

Uh,huh. Pull my finger.

Where the spiritual part comes in... is asking for and getting God's help ... when one is not strong enough to kick a habit.   At least, that's how I see it.  So glad you asked for God's help.  That was, quite literally, the first step in your recovery.   

If "God",in any of his/her/it's/undetermined forms is responsible for someone "kicking" an addiction,can't it also be fairly said that he/her,etc,etc,etc is also responsible FOR addiction?

[sneakypete]

Well... since the author of the book blames Trump for his brother's alcoholism.... and since some here don't see the disconnect of acknowledging Trump's non-alcoholism.... yet positing that alcoholism is genetic (inherited)....

it just naturally progressed to that ""disconnect"".   It it was really genetic, why doesn't Trump have it (the so-called disease). 

@XenaLee

JESUS! Just HOW freaking thick ARE you?

Trump is on record as saying he is not an alcoholic because he saw what alcohol did to his older brother,so HE NEVER TOOK A DRINK.

I am going to type this slowly so that MAYBE you can take it in and do something with it. People that do NOT drink do NOT become alcoholics. If you have never had it,you can't crave it!

Frankly,I am shocked I ever have to write something so freaking obvious.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Frankly, I'm surprised that you (of all people) are buying into that "victimization" bullshit (it isn't my fault, I inherited it.. it's in the genes!!!  The genes made me take all those drinks!!!).

You clearly have precious little idea what you're talking about ... and yet you double-down.

If you're at all interested in learning more about the brain chemistry behind addiction and the link between addiction and genetics, take a few moments and Google both. 

Maybe you'll start to understand addiction is not about victimization and no one referencing molecular biochemistry is suggesting it.  Studies on the changes in brain chemistry look for a remedy, not an excuse.

[Right_in_Virginia]

MARK SIMONE
@MarkSimoneNY

Media is very careful to not ask Mary Trump whether or not she's ever actually met Donald Trump. She was in the same room in 2017 for a large family gathering. Eric didn't recognize her, having never seen her. She has no photograph anywhere of her with Donald Trump.

2:01 PM · Jul 15, 2020·Twitter Web App

https://twitter.com/MarkSimoneNY/status/1283461681507717126

[corbe]

   You remember in High School when some freshman said some shit about a Senior and we all sent out gang of Sophomores to obliviate that azzholes character?   Yea, me neither.