Author Topic: Horowitz: Republicans won’t even fight for self-defense  (Read 6196 times)

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Offline Mesaclone

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Re: Horowitz: Republicans won’t even fight for self-defense
« Reply #175 on: July 05, 2020, 04:46:37 pm »
Wow...take half a day off and the stupid gets totally out of hand.

Let's lay out what roamer and the purity crew really want; they want a crushing defeat for the GOP in this coming election/they want that defeat to "open the eyes of conservatives" who will then rally to a wildly right wing social conservative agenda/or, alternately, the Left takes control and so guts the Republic economically and socially that some sort of popular conservative uprising occurs which inspires the populace to restore what he sees as originalist principles. I think as well, everyone gets a unicorn and 3 magic wishes.

Essentially, he wants a conservative victory fantasy outcome to emerge from a broad and deep Left wing political victory in 2020...under the delusion that Marxists, once in power, will step aside in the face of a rising tide of "true conservatives". The purists believe that a crushing defeat for Trump will push more centrist conservatives to re-adopt a hard line social conservative position and become, essentially, NT's themselves. Well...there's so many problems with that idiotic fantasy that its hard to know where to begin critiquing it, so let's just say its Alice in Wonderland stupid.

Marxists once in full power, will never surrender that power without bloodshed...and if they were, they damage they would have already done to the nation would leave us prostrate at the feet of the Chinese and every other world power. Our economy would be Weimar levels, our social structure would have already been utterly annihilated...and the nation ripe for a totalitarian style of "conservative" leader who emulate a Hitler far more than a George Washington. This dangerous fantasy, grounded in a deep ignorance of human nature and political history, gives NT types something to cling to...rather than having them focus on the reality of our current situation.

Maybe 10% of the population fit roamer's concept of what a "true conservative" should be...everyone else is unfit to be a part of "his" conservative movement. So once the Marxists DO take over...as roamer wants...there will be no uprising to bring them down. A fractured right will not unite because elements like roamer have defined the right so narrowly that it excludes any kind of effective political movement...precluding the kind of coalition that is necessary to achieve an ideological majority...with the power to retake government against such an entrenched entity.

This NT-roamer fantasy dooms us all to perpetual Marxist rule...disguised as "progressivism" of course...and ensures the ostracization and eventual elimination of conservative thought in our lifetimes. I weep for my children, because this "purity" movement on the Right is bringing them nothing less than a world of Marxist absolutism and the loss of freedom of thought. It really will be the end of the Republic...though, much as it did in Ancient Rome...the facade of Republicanism will remain in place as a shadow of that which has been lost forever.

All of that will occur, because these NT's are too pure to coalesce with other conservatives to oppose the Marxism that is rising to crush us all. Disagreements, ideologically, between Republicans and conservatives are miniscule in comparison to the beast that is at our very door. As I said...what we're seeing out of NT's now is just plain egotistical, stubborn stupidity. When people ask why the Republic fell, don't blame the Marxists...that's like blaming the sun for shining...blame the NT's who were too blind to coalesce and resist.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2020, 04:55:08 pm by Mesaclone »
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Horowitz: Republicans won’t even fight for self-defense
« Reply #176 on: July 05, 2020, 04:52:35 pm »
Wow...take half a day off and the stupid gets totally out of hand.

Let's lay out what roamer and the purity crew really want; they want a crushing defeat for the GOP in this coming election/they want that defeat to "open the eyes of conservatives" who will then rally to a wildly right wing social conservative agenda/or, alternately, the Left takes control and so guts the Republic economically and socially that some sort of popular conservative uprising occurs which inspires the populace to restore what he sees as originalist principles. I think as well, everyone gets a unicorn and 3 magic wishes.

Essentially, he wants a conservative victory fantasy outcome to emerge from a broad and deep Left wing political victory in 2020...under the delusion that Marxists, once in power, will step aside in the face of a rising tide of "true conservatives". The purists believe that a crushing defeat for Trump will push more centrist conservatives to re-adopt a hard line social conservative position and become, essentially, NT's themselves. Well...there's so many problems with that idiotic fantasy that its hard to know where to begin critiquing it, so let's just say its Alice in Wonderland stupid.

Marxists once in full power, will never surrender that power without bloodshed...and if they were, they damage they would have already done to the nation would leave us prostrate at the feet of the Chinese and every other world power. Our economy would be Weimar levels, our social structure would have already been utterly annihilated...and the nation ripe for a totalitarian style of "conservative" leader who emulate a Hitler far more than a George Washington. This dangerous fantasy, grounded in a deep ignorance of human nature and political history, gives NT types something to cling to...rather than having them focus on the reality of our current situation.

Maybe 10% of the population fit roamer's concept of what a "true conservative" should be...everyone else is unfit to be a part of "his" conservative movement. So once the Marxists DO take over...as roamer wants...there will be no uprising to bring them down. A fractured right will not unite because elements like roamer have defined the right so narrowly that it excludes any kind of effective political movement...precluding the kind of coalition that is necessary to achieve an ideological majority...with the power to retake government against such an entrenched entity.

This NT-roamer fantasy dooms us all to perpetual Marxist rule...disguised as "progressivism" of course...and ensures the ostracization and eventual elimination of conservative thought in our lifetimes. I weep for my children, because this "purity" movement on the Right is bringing them nothing less than a world of Marxist absolutism and the loss of freedom of thought. It really will be the end of the Republic...though, much as it did in Ancient Rome...the facade of Republicanism will remain in place as a shadow of that which has been lost forever.

Your mind reading capabilities leave much to be desired.

Offline Mesaclone

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Re: Horowitz: Republicans won’t even fight for self-defense
« Reply #177 on: July 05, 2020, 04:56:19 pm »
Your mind reading capabilities leave much to be desired.

True. Fortunately, I have no need for such a skill. Simply reading what you've written over the past few years is more than sufficient.
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Horowitz: Republicans won’t even fight for self-defense
« Reply #178 on: July 05, 2020, 04:58:35 pm »
True. Fortunately, I have no need for such a skill. Simply reading what you've written over the past few years is more than sufficient.

Your interpretive skills need work too.

Online DB

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Re: Horowitz: Republicans won’t even fight for self-defense
« Reply #179 on: July 05, 2020, 05:00:14 pm »
Wow...take half a day off and the stupid gets totally out of hand.

Let's lay out what roamer and the purity crew really want; they want a crushing defeat for the GOP in this coming election/they want that defeat to "open the eyes of conservatives" who will then rally to a wildly right wing social conservative agenda/or, alternately, the Left takes control and so guts the Republic economically and socially that some sort of popular conservative uprising occurs which inspires the populace to restore what he sees as originalist principles. I think as well, everyone gets a unicorn and 3 magic wishes.

Essentially, he wants a conservative victory fantasy outcome to emerge from a broad and deep Left wing political victory in 2020...under the delusion that Marxists, once in power, will step aside in the face of a rising tide of "true conservatives". The purists believe that a crushing defeat for Trump will push more centrist conservatives to re-adopt a hard line social conservative position and become, essentially, NT's themselves. Well...there's so many problems with that idiotic fantasy that its hard to know where to begin critiquing it, so let's just say its Alice in Wonderland stupid.

Marxists once in full power, will never surrender that power without bloodshed...and if they were, they damage they would have already done to the nation would leave us prostrate at the feet of the Chinese and every other world power. Our economy would be Weimar levels, our social structure would have already been utterly annihilated...and the nation ripe for a totalitarian style of "conservative" leader who emulate a Hitler far more than a George Washington. This dangerous fantasy, grounded in a deep ignorance of human nature and political history, gives NT types something to cling to...rather than having them focus on the reality of our current situation.

Maybe 10% of the population fit roamer's concept of what a "true conservative" should be...everyone else is unfit to be a part of "his" conservative movement. So once the Marxists DO take over...as roamer wants...there will be no uprising to bring them down. A fractured right will not unite because elements like roamer have defined the right so narrowly that it excludes any kind of effective political movement with the power to retake government against such an entrenched entity.

This NT-roamer fantasy dooms us all to perpetual Marxist rule...disguised as "progressivism" of course...and ensures the ostracization and eventual elimination of conservative thought in our lifetimes. I weep for my children, because this "purity" movement on the Right is bring them a world of Marxism and the loss of freedom of thought. It really will be the end of the Republic...though, much as it did in Ancient Rome...the facade of Republicanism will remain in place as a shadow of that which has been lost forever.

No, we want the sheep to leave the plantation and make the politicians earn our vote instead of voting in fear of what the other side will bring.

All you have is fear. Your head is on fire and you are screaming that others join you.

The party is long dead. If it is going to change it will have to be forced to change and the ONLY way to do that is stop yielding to the fear and stop letting them take your vote for granted no matter what they do. Your form of pragmatism has only lead to what Washington D.C. has become today. All your hopes have been funneled down to one man. And you wonder why we are failing spectacularly as things come crashing down around you...


Online corbe

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Re: Horowitz: Republicans won’t even fight for self-defense
« Reply #180 on: July 05, 2020, 05:00:53 pm »
   Trumpers made it painfully obvious at the GOP Convention in 16 that our voices do not matter, you literally turned off our microphones.  I have no illusions that it will be us who will be blamed when you can't pull that moron across the finish line in 2020, although we continually warned you he was a one trick pony, if that.
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Online DCPatriot

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Re: Horowitz: Republicans won’t even fight for self-defense
« Reply #181 on: July 05, 2020, 05:02:00 pm »
Your mind reading capabilities leave much to be desired.

@Mesaclone   Outstanding, sir!!

@roamer_1

What's the matter, 'boy'?

Where's the monotonous, fractured reply where you compulsively need to address every sentence...no matter how many paragraphs and detailed opinion/facts presented?

Cat got your tongue?

Such a boor.  Had you pegged the day you washed up on our front porch.  Before you even dried off.
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Online DCPatriot

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Re: Horowitz: Republicans won’t even fight for self-defense
« Reply #182 on: July 05, 2020, 05:03:49 pm »
   Trumpers made it painfully obvious at the GOP Convention in 16 that our voices do not matter, you literally turned off our microphones.  I have no illusions that it will be us who will be blamed when you can't pull that moron across the finish line in 2020, although we continually warned you he was a one trick pony, if that.

That "moron" will make Reagan's 84 reelection seem like Amateur Hour.
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Horowitz: Republicans won’t even fight for self-defense
« Reply #183 on: July 05, 2020, 05:04:30 pm »
@Mesaclone   Outstanding, sir!!

@roamer_1

What's the matter, 'boy'?

Where's the monotonous, fractured reply where you compulsively need to address every sentence...no matter how many paragraphs and detailed opinion/facts presented?

Cat got your tongue?

Such a boor.  Had you pegged the day you washed up on our front porch.  Before you even dried off.

Nope. It's just bullshit.

Online corbe

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Re: Horowitz: Republicans won’t even fight for self-defense
« Reply #184 on: July 05, 2020, 05:06:49 pm »
That "moron" will make Reagan's 84 reelection seem like Amateur Hour.

   I wish I could share in your optimism, @DCPatriot
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Re: Horowitz: Republicans won’t even fight for self-defense
« Reply #185 on: July 05, 2020, 05:10:22 pm »
   I wish I could share in your optimism, @DCPatriot

No you don't.  Stop lying.    :laugh:
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Offline Mesaclone

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Re: Horowitz: Republicans won’t even fight for self-defense
« Reply #186 on: July 05, 2020, 05:13:38 pm »
No, we want the sheep to leave the plantation and make the politicians earn our vote instead of voting in fear of what the other side will bring.Here is why you fail. We are not sheep, we are wolves defending our Republic...and every vote we make has to be earned. We voted for Trump because he fights back, and we didn't vote for McCain and Romney because they were complicit with the Progressives.

All you have is fear. Your head is on fire and you are screaming that others join you. Yes, we should fear what the other side has to bring...the end of the Republic and the rise of Marxism are justifiably terrifying to any free people. Fear is not weaknesses, it is the clarion call that draws brave men and women to resistance.

The party is long dead. If so, we are doomed as there is no other viable tool for resisting the Democratic party and the Left. If it is going to change it will have to be forced to change and the ONLY way to do that is stop yielding to the fear and stop letting them take your vote for granted no matter what they do. This is just you stating your justification for the fantasy scenario I laid out in my last post...its foolish and absurd to think positive change can come from crushing defeat. Your form of pragmatism has only lead to what Washington D.C. has become today. Yes, pragmatism has led this nation to be the strongest and most free scion of liberty the world has ever seen...for my part, I'd like to use pragmatism to ensure that continues. All your hopes have been funneled down to one man. My hopes are funneled to the millions who support that one man and the idea of resistance to Progressivism for which he stands...he fights and I fight with him, and I will fight alongside whoever succeeds him in that fight. This fight is in no way about one man, it is about saving the Republic from Marxism. And you wonder why we are failing spectacularly as things come crashing down around you...Actually, I know precisely why its falling and I laid that out in my answer to roamer.

Reading is like listening...its not enough to just say the words in your head. You have to grasp their meaning, then you can refute them...you seem to have skipped the "grasp" step.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2020, 05:15:27 pm by Mesaclone »
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Online corbe

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Re: Horowitz: Republicans won’t even fight for self-defense
« Reply #187 on: July 05, 2020, 05:15:03 pm »
No you don't.  Stop lying.    :laugh:

   I have stated numerous times on this very Forum that I will vote for that 'moron' if it appears he screwed it up so bad that even TEXAS (38 EV) is in play, otherwise I'll sit it out and snark from the sidelines which I always do, anyway.  @DCPatriot
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Offline Mesaclone

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Re: Horowitz: Republicans won’t even fight for self-defense
« Reply #188 on: July 05, 2020, 05:22:44 pm »
   Trumpers made it painfully obvious at the GOP Convention in 16 that our voices do not matter, you literally turned off our microphones.  I have no illusions that it will be us who will be blamed when you can't pull that moron across the finish line in 2020, although we continually warned you he was a one trick pony, if that.

Arrogance and butthurt are a dangerous combo.

"we continually warned you" (arrogance)....."you turned off our microphones" (butthurt)

In every convention, one side warns the other as to why THEIR candidate should not defeat another...and at the end we all coalesce to support the guy who wins the nomination. As the great man Ted Cruz did, we set aside our petty personal hurts and disappointment...and have the wisdom to see that only a coalition of conservatives/Republicans can hope to defeat the Progressives. We have the maturity to set aside butthurt and arrogance because what matters most...even more than genuine disagreements on the Right...is that we defeat the Marxists at our door. Well...apparently...not everyone has the wisdom and maturity to do this...and not doing so can easily bring defeat. So damn right you should get the blame for defeat IF you don't vote for the President. You've stated that you will...if necessary in your state...and for that I will give you a kudo. Many NT's, lack that level of maturity.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2020, 05:25:09 pm by Mesaclone »
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Re: Horowitz: Republicans won’t even fight for self-defense
« Reply #189 on: July 05, 2020, 05:23:14 pm »
Reading is like listening...its not enough to just say the words in your head. You have to grasp their meaning, then you can refute them...you seem to have skipped the "grasp" step.

Every election is the same. All you offer is fear. And you can't figure out why things keep getting worse year after year.

And apparently you think all that stands between Marxism/end of the world is Trump. How Effing foolish is that? You've put yourself in a position that only Trump can save you. Well you won't be saved if that's your plan. Wake up and smell reality.

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Re: Horowitz: Republicans won’t even fight for self-defense
« Reply #190 on: July 05, 2020, 05:23:28 pm »
   I have stated numerous times on this very Forum that I will vote for that 'moron' if it appears he screwed it up so bad that even TEXAS (38 EV) is in play, otherwise I'll sit it out and snark from the sidelines which I always do, anyway.  @DCPatriot

Discussing "optimism" has nothing to do with your sadly, potential "vote", my friend!   :laugh:
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Online DB

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Re: Horowitz: Republicans won’t even fight for self-defense
« Reply #191 on: July 05, 2020, 05:23:59 pm »
Arrogance and butthurt are a dangerous combo.

"we continually warned you" (arrogance)....."you turned off our microphones" (butthurt)

In every convention, one side warns the other as to why THEIR candidate should not defeat another...and at the end we all coalesce to support the guy who wins the nomination. As the great man Ted Cruz did, we set aside our petty personal hurts and disappointment...and have the wisdom to see that only a coalition of conservatives/Republicans can hope to defeat the Progressives. We have the maturity to set aside butthurt and arrogance because what matters is most...even more than genuine disagreements on the Right...is that we defeat the Marxists at our door. Well...apparently...not everyone has the wisdom and maturity to do this...and not doing so can easily bring defeat. So damn right you should get the blame for defeat.

Go look in the mirror.

Offline Mesaclone

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Re: Horowitz: Republicans won’t even fight for self-defense
« Reply #192 on: July 05, 2020, 05:28:54 pm »
Every election is the same. All you offer is fear. And you can't figure out why things keep getting worse year after year.

And apparently you think all that stands between Marxism/end of the world is Trump. How Effing foolish is that? You've put yourself in a position that only Trump can save you. Well you won't be saved if that's your plan. Wake up and smell reality.

The only one that can save in THIS election IS Trump. There is no one else running for president...so wake up. In 2024, we'll have a new candidate...and damned if I won't support them to as long as they are a fighter. So, you see, its not about Trump at all...its about finding a leader who fights back and carries the banner of conservatism...and right now NOBODY does that better and in more devoted fashion than the President. But here's where your blind...you think we follow Trump. We don't. Trump follows us...he embodies and carries out the kind of fight WE demand of him...and he's smart enough to know that. You, apparently, are not.

Smell that reality.
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Offline Mesaclone

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Re: Horowitz: Republicans won’t even fight for self-defense
« Reply #193 on: July 05, 2020, 05:31:24 pm »
Go look in the mirror.

I am. And I've had plenty of butthurt and arrogance when my candidate was defeated...and when that's happened in a primary I have the maturity to go with the candidate my fellow conservatives have nominated. Its a bitter pill, no doubt. It takes maturity and a little courage. Give it a try sometime.
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Re: Horowitz: Republicans won’t even fight for self-defense
« Reply #194 on: July 05, 2020, 05:31:25 pm »
The only one that can save in THIS election IS Trump. There is no one else running for president...so wake up. In 2024, we'll have a new candidate...and damned if I won't support them to as long as they are a fighter. So, you see, its not about Trump at all...its about finding a leader who fights back and carries the banner of conservatism...and right now NOBODY does that better and in more devoted fashion than the President. But here's where your blind...you think we follow Trump. We don't. Trump follows us...he embodies and carries out the kind of fight WE demand of him...and he's smart enough to know that. You, apparently, are not.

Smell that reality.

Reading you on this thread is akin to watching "Home Run Derby" finals.   :beer:
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Horowitz: Republicans won’t even fight for self-defense
« Reply #195 on: July 05, 2020, 05:37:08 pm »
No, we want the sheep to leave the plantation and make the politicians earn our vote instead of voting in fear of what the other side will bring.

All you have is fear. Your head is on fire and you are screaming that others join you.

The party is long dead. If it is going to change it will have to be forced to change and the ONLY way to do that is stop yielding to the fear and stop letting them take your vote for granted no matter what they do. Your form of pragmatism has only lead to what Washington D.C. has become today. All your hopes have been funneled down to one man. And you wonder why we are failing spectacularly as things come crashing down around you...

That's right. But what that translates into in real-time is a null result. Neither side qualifies according to the criteria, so I really don't give a crap who wins. Both are driving America into the ground like a tent peg. Both are hyping fear of the other as the only real agenda. It's a sh*t-show all the way around. So why should I give my blood-won endorsement to either of em?

Offline Mesaclone

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Re: Horowitz: Republicans won’t even fight for self-defense
« Reply #196 on: July 05, 2020, 05:37:51 pm »
Reading you on this thread is akin to watching "Home Run Derby" finals.   :beer:

Thx @DCPatriot , its pretty easy to get passionate and fired up over this stuff. This is the first time in my life I've genuinely felt that our Republic is teetering on a knife's edge...all that we love and believe in about this country can be lost. I have 3 daughters, and as DB keeps accusing me...I'm scared shitless for them. Progressives and their foolishness I understand. But Conservatives who can't seem to grasp this situation make me crazy...and worse...the ones who do grasp it but are unwilling to fight against it, and who often become useful idiots for the other side, are complicit in the loss of our freedom.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2020, 05:39:10 pm by Mesaclone »
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Re: Horowitz: Republicans won’t even fight for self-defense
« Reply #197 on: July 05, 2020, 05:39:32 pm »
I'm voting for Trump this time around for one reason only. IMHO he has EARNED it!

I'm voting FOR him not against Biden (or whomever the Dems bring in at the last moment).

PS:  In both of the other federal elections I get to vote in I will be voting AGAINST Kevin Brady and John Cornyn because they have genuinely earned that.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2020, 05:43:49 pm by Bigun »
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Horowitz: Republicans won’t even fight for self-defense
« Reply #198 on: July 05, 2020, 05:41:07 pm »
Thx @DCPatriot , its pretty easy to get passionate and fired up over this stuff. This is the first time in my life I've genuinely felt that our Republic is teetering on a knife's edge...all that we love and believe in about this country can be lost. I have 3 daughters, and as DB keeps accusing me...I'm scared shitless for them. Progressives and their foolishness I understand. But Conservatives who can't seem to grasp this situation make me crazy...and worse...the ones who do grasp it but are unwilling to fight against it, and who often become useful idiots for the other side, are complicit in the loss of our freedom.

Your progressivism is no different than theirs.

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Re: Horowitz: Republicans won’t even fight for self-defense
« Reply #199 on: July 05, 2020, 05:42:18 pm »
The only one that can save in THIS election IS Trump. There is no one else running for president...so wake up. In 2024, we'll have a new candidate...and damned if I won't support them to as long as they are a fighter. So, you see, its not about Trump at all...its about finding a leader who fights back and carries the banner of conservatism...and right now NOBODY does that better and in more devoted fashion than the President. But here's where your blind...you think we follow Trump. We don't. Trump follows us...he embodies and carries out the kind of fight WE demand of him...and he's smart enough to know that. You, apparently, are not.

Smell that reality.

You said that 4 years ago.

And look where we are today.

All you and your party does is cede ground year after year. That isn't winning.

You are a slave to your fear.

Until the party is forced to reform and conform to the constitution the ground ceding will continue.

Losing is losing no matter what perfume you put on it.

To continue doing what has been failing for decades is a fool's errand.