Georgia shooting of Ahmaud Arbery spurs outcry

[goatprairie]

I really have no idea what you are now blabbering about.

You stated yourself unequivocally that the person killed did nothing wrong.

Why is it so difficult for you to produce the evidence that he did nothing wrong?

The burden is on you as you made the statement.

Where is the evidence?

You do not have it, then you really need to just shut up as there is nothing of substance you could say, unless you admit you are empty on the facts side of things.

Are you a lawyer? Maybe you should talk to one. You don't have to prove you didn't do something wrong, the accusers have to prove you did.
Innocent until proven guilty and all that.

[goatprairie]

Yeah... Not the best option.

That won't be a good point for the defense at the trial. You point a loaded weapon at someone, you better have a very good reason for doing it. If it goes off and kills somebody who thought you might shoot him, your defense is very shaky. Especially if you're not a leo. Which the McMichaels weren't.
 It doesn't matter if what Arbery did was stupid. You held a loaded weapon on him, and very probably fearing for his life, he decided  to try and wrestle the gun away instead of running in the opposite direction
Remember, Arbery didn't confront the McMichaels, they confronted him.

[roamer_1]

If I was looking for one of my lost livestock, and I was on a public road, and some armed people, who weren't leos, stopped me with one pointing a gun at me, they would have been visited by the authorities.
Those idiots had absolutely NO RIGHT to accost you on a public road and point a loaded gun at you.

PROVE IT.

 

[roamer_1]

That won't be a good point for the defense at the trial.

Incidental to the point.

It doesn't matter if what Arbery did was stupid.

Well yeah it does. That's what made him dead.

[Sighlass]

That won't be a good point for the defense at the trial. You point a loaded weapon at someone, you better have a very good reason for doing it. If it goes off and kills somebody who thought you might shoot him, your defense is very shaky. Especially if you're not a leo. Which the McMichaels weren't.
 It doesn't matter if what Arbery did was stupid. You held a loaded weapon on him, and very probably fearing for his life, he decided  to try and wrestle the gun away instead of running in the opposite direction
Remember, Arbery didn't confront the McMichaels, they confronted him.

I have asked few times to prove they pointed a loaded gun at the fellow before he attacked... Linked the video... All I have been is ignored. Free screenshot programs out there, I use greenshot.

https://getgreenshot.org/

[verga]

That won't be a good point for the defense at the trial. You point a loaded weapon at someone, you better have a very good reason for doing it. If it goes off and kills somebody who thought you might shoot him, your defense is very shaky. Especially if you're not a leo. Which the McMichaels weren't.
 It doesn't matter if what Arbery did was stupid. You held a loaded weapon on him, and very probably fearing for his life, he decided  to try and wrestle the gun away instead of running in the opposite direction
Remember, Arbery didn't confront the McMichaels, they confronted him.

[verga]

Incidental to the point.

Well yeah it does. That's what made him dead.

No what made him dead was two rednecks that had not business or legal authority to chase him down and confront him over a supposed crime that they did not witness.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Actually according tot he rules of debate the burden of proof is on you. You hold the "positive" position, so you need to prove that he did do something wrong.After watching both videos, (The second one is "Claimed " to be him entering a house that is under construction. The owners and construction people stated that NOTHING was taken. So at worst he is guilty of trespassing. And under Georgia law this would be hard to prove since there was not fence or signs up. I am pretty sure thqt trespassing is not a death penalty offense.

You do not know of what you speak.

The poster said "He did nothing wrong".  No facts, nothing but that statement.

I asked for the evidence he used to make that judgement and there is zilch.

How is the burden of proof on me when all I ask are the facts he used to support his statement?

Methinks you are confusing some type of trial with a simple request to backup a bold statement.

@verga

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Agree... disagree... 

It's up to a jury now.

[Cyber Liberty]

I have asked few times to prove they pointed a loaded gun at the fellow before he attacked... Linked the video... All I have been is ignored. Free screenshot programs out there, I use greenshot.

https://getgreenshot.org/

@Sighlass

Sorry, I didn't see your earlier post.  From what I could see in the shaky video, the first time the gun was pointed at anybody was right after the decedent grabbed the muzzle of the shotgun and pointed it at himself in the process.  Trying to disarm somebody by grabbing the barrel of the gun is not bright, because if the trigger finger was in the guard, it just about guarantees an accidental and fatal discharge.

This case will probably turn on whether the two had a legitimate reason to detain the man, and it appears they did not.

[roamer_1]

No what made him dead was two rednecks that had not business or legal authority to chase him down and confront him over a supposed crime that they did not witness.

Swift judgment is normally in error

[skeeter]

@Sighlass

Sorry, I didn't see your earlier post.  From what I could see in the shaky video, the first time the gun was pointed at anybody was right after the decedent grabbed the muzzle of the shotgun and pointed it at himself in the process.  Trying to disarm somebody by grabbing the barrel of the gun is not bright, because if the trigger finger was in the guard, it just about guarantees an accidental and fatal discharge.

This case will probably turn on whether the two had a legitimate reason to detain the man, and it appears they did not.

For perspective.

https://www.takimag.com/article/the-lynching-of-a-black-jogger/

[Cyber Liberty]

For perspective.

https://www.takimag.com/article/the-lynching-of-a-black-jogger/

I like how the article draws the comparison of this case, Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown all died after attempting to disarm somebody.  Seems I read that somewhere before.   

[sneakypete]

Well,if anyone in the country knows anything about racism,it is the Mayor of Atlanta,"the black spot on your map".

[sneakypete]

Okay, I watched the video and did my hour review as best I could....

Men (two) have been upset about robberies in the neighborhood which had been caught on camera (looked like perp).... Third person (was following the two men that shot the perp) was involved (probable person filming). I imagine the 3rd person was the one that was being robbed and suggested give chase.... Not sure... but somehow they thought they were hot on the trail.

They give chase and overtake the suspect on foot in their truck. Pull ahead of him and try to get him to stop (citizen's arrest)... They are armed (and I imagine the dead fellow Ahmaud Arbery knew they were armed?) and he had to know they were armed (visual). He attacked the older fellow with the shotgun (yes he attacked).... in the struggle he was shot.

I am sorta torn,citizen arrests are legal... shooting someone attacking you is legal.

@Sighlass

I am not torn,or even bend in the tiniest amount. This goober was seen leaving a vacant house he clearly did not live in BECAUSE it was a vacant house under construction and NOBODY lived in it.

For this very good reason he immediately became a burglury suspect because it was an area where there were recent thefts.

Because of this someone notified the two men now under arrest who stopped the stranger running down the street,and one pointed a shotgun at him and the other a handgun,as a LEGAL method to get his cooperation. Instead of cooperating,this dumb ass attacked a man holding a loaded shotgun on him,and was shot to death for being criminally stupid.

Here is a little factoid you and everyone else needs to ponder. If they two men had planned to shoot him,why didn't they shoot him from the safety of the truck?

The guns were to protect THEM from possible attack by a criminal. They were DEFENSIVE weapons,not offensive weapons. We KNOW this to be true because they didn't just blow his ass away and ride off into the sunset to get a beer.

That said, if the fellow was just jogging and was suddenly stopped and feared for his life, attacking someone with a gun you think is trying to kill you is also legal.

You spell "stupid" or "desperate to escape before the law comes and runs warrant checks on me." different than I do.

The ONLY rational/semi-rational reason ANYONE who is suspected of a crime will choose to attack the armed citizen holding him at gunpoint is because he knows there are warrants out for his arrest,and he knows he WILL be arrested if he is still there when the po-po show up.

Am I the only one that finds it suspiscious that NO ONE has been claiming he was an innocent young man who had never been in trouble with the law before?

What we are witnessing now are politics and shuffling for advantage at play here,now. It has NOTHING to do with justice and everything to do with votes.

 

[verga]

You do not know of what you speak.

The poster said "He did nothing wrong".  No facts, nothing but that statement.

I asked for the evidence he used to make that judgement and there is zilch.

How is the burden of proof on me when all I ask are the facts he used to support his statement?

Methinks you are confusing some type of trial with a simple request to backup a bold statement.

@verga

You hold the "positive" "He did soemthing wrong" You need to prove that.

[Sighlass]

Because of this someone notified the two men now under arrest who stopped the stranger running down the street,and one pointed a shotgun at him and the other a handgun,as a LEGAL method to get his cooperation. Instead of cooperating,this dumb ass attacked a man holding a loaded shotgun on him,and was shot to death for being criminally stupid.

Please Sneaky I hope this is true, can you link where this has been reported... If so it clamps it for me, if they were shown the video of the kid in the garage (earlier robbery/trespassing) or if they were told of the kid leaving the house (that day) it would greatly lean my belief they were fully innocent of "just pointing a gun (embellishment spread here by one poster) and killing an innocent kid".... Something that says hey guys "we think we have found the culprit we have been looking for and need to have the police question him".

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BTW... did the prosecution ever explain why he had a hammer and where he got it? Surely a jogger does not tote around a hammer.... I am just speculating here, but I would be a dollar to a donut he stole it and they didn't catch it on camera.


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Also assuming the fellows are ruled as not being justified in doing a "citizen arrest" ... They still didn't just haul off and shoot the kid, they were attacked... I still don't see it as the big "M" (murder) but something far less (reckless endangerment or something, not a lawyer).

You are allowed to open carry (or concealed in GA w/ license). So if they were NOT banishing (pointing the weapon) what did they do wrong?

[Jazzhead]

I have asked few times to prove they pointed a loaded gun at the fellow before he attacked... Linked the video... All I have been is ignored. Free screenshot programs out there, I use greenshot.

https://getgreenshot.org/

They clearly blocked the road and confronted him.  And he clearly tried to run around the truck, out of the roadway.    And if at that point these necks brandished a rifle,  and Arbery acted rashly and (in hindsight) foolishly,  that doesn't excuse 'em from a murder one beef.   

[Neverdul]

Ahmaud Arbery 'may have been looking for drink of water' when he visited construction site near where he was killed - as new video shows multiple people wandered around the property the day of the shooting

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8324003/Security-cam-video-raises-new-questions-Arbery-shooting.html

Newly released security video gives more context around Ahmaud Arbery murder case


www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0NzM1wjBRw


 

[Cyber Liberty]

They clearly blocked the road and confronted him.  And he clearly tried to run around the truck, out of the roadway.    And if at that point these necks brandished a rifle,  and Arbery acted rashly and (in hindsight) foolishly,  that doesn't excuse 'em from a murder one beef.

A fact not in evidence, sir.  I saw no brandishing, just the decedent grabbing the muzzle of a gun, but that video is really shaky.  Either way, that was a fatal mistake that, had he not done it, would be alive today.

I think Murder may be a bridge too far, and I think these guys are going to the slammer, or Atlanta will burn.  Negligent Homicide will not calm the coming riots if they don't get done for Murder 1.  We may never know, because jungle "justice" is the rule in the urban centers.

ETA:  It's not Murder 1 if there was no premeditation, and good luck proving that.

[sneakypete]

And by the by, if one is in such a situation, you've got to be an idiot to force the issue.

@roamer_1

THERE it is!

A valid argument can be made that somebody THAT freaking stupid NEEDS to be removed from the gene pool for the benefit of humanity.

Sometimes people are just so damn stupid they bring it on themselves,and it doesn't get any more stupid that attacking two armed men,one holding a shotgun,when you are unarmed.

No one has YET to mention why this "innocent black jogger" was so anxious to get away from this two "attackers' before the police showed up to settle things down,either.

OR made any mention of his criminal record.

AND.....,you can bet the farm he has a criminal record involving both theft and violence or we would have already heard about what a perfect little angle he was from the Tan Klan.

[verga]

@roamer_1

THERE it is!

A valid argument can be made that somebody THAT freaking stupid NEEDS to be removed from the gene pool for the benefit of humanity.

Sometimes people are just so damn stupid they bring it on themselves,and it doesn't get any more stupid that attacking two armed men,one holding a shotgun,when you are unarmed.

No one has YET to mention why this "innocent black jogger" was so anxious to get away from this two "attackers' before the police showed up to settle things down,either.

OR made any mention of his criminal record.

AND.....,you can bet the farm he has a criminal record involving both theft and violence or we would have already heard about what a perfect little angle he was from the Tan Klan.

It came out over a week ago that he did have some minor run ins with the law, as well as a history of some mental issues, but as been said on the day of the incident nothing was taken from the site.  https://www.yahoo.com/news/security-cam-video-raises-questions-150615409.html English has said nothing was ever stolen from his property. Graddy said his security cameras had recorded “numerous clips of persons entering the property” and shared two clips that showed a pair of children riding bicycles up to the home and then walking inside.

Prior bad acts are not a valid reason to shoot him.

[sneakypete]

It came out over a week ago that he did have some minor run ins with the law, as well as a history of some mental issues, but as been said on the day of the incident nothing was taken from the site. 

@verga

Big whoop! I have seen the video,and the fact that he didn't steal anything is related to there being nothing there worth stealing that was portable.

As for the kids on bicycles,another Big Whoop. Most kids are curious and just looking around to learn things.

Prior bad acts are not a valid reason to shoot him.

Agreed,but physically attacking two men holding firearms pointed at him is good reason.

Or maybe you think he was trying to disarm them so they could have a debate?

Anybody foolish enough to attack TWO armed men that are just stopping and asking him questions NEEDS to be killed because whatever he is,"innocent" ain't it.

[Cyber Liberty]

@sneakypete

I'd be interested in seeing the toxicology report from his autopsy.  That stunt of grabbing the muzzle of the shotgun is something I'd have to be pretty wasted to pull.

[EdinVA]

@sneakypete

I'd be interested in seeing the toxicology report from his autopsy.  That stunt of grabbing the muzzle of the shotgun is something I'd have to be pretty wasted to pull.

Nothing to lose?  Get shot in the back walking away or fight...