Author Topic: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2  (Read 179743 times)

0 Members and 27 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 45,593
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #2075 on: May 09, 2020, 01:12:43 pm »
There was a time the largest employer in my state was a steel mill, formerly employing 13,000; now around 600.
Now it's 1) Walmart and 2) various hospitals.

Yeah, that says a lot, don't it?

Online bigheadfred

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,274
  • Gender: Male
  • One day Closer
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #2076 on: May 09, 2020, 01:16:37 pm »
I don't know. Idaho is approaching 2 million population. Stats for death by Covid are at 67 (last time I looked).

My family lost 13 people last year. Most died because of complications of old age. A  few "younger" from health conditions unrelated to covid. And a few from bad luck, like vehicle accidents, etc.

The one that has hurt the worst this year for me as the death of my son's "best" friend. I only knew the kid for ten years +/-

Death by Fentanyl. Just couldn't seem to leave, or be free from heroin. His family has money. And my son got into it early on, (why lie). Through this kid, but mostly his ex. My son's true eye-opener was when he came home from work one evening and his ex and kids were nowhere to be found. He finally did locate them through this friend. My son, at that time, had landed a job putting up all those lovely windmillls that dot the foothills. He went on a rescue mission. To get his kids. I won't go into all the details. Except for the outcome. And all I will say about that is the very exceptional job our local Chief Of Police did to save a lot of violence. No one died. And no one went to jail.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Online bigheadfred

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,274
  • Gender: Male
  • One day Closer
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #2077 on: May 09, 2020, 01:22:42 pm »
I am going to repost this. It is a "cover".

It is to and for all respect for first responders.


Error 404 (Not Found)!!1
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline jmyrlefuller

  • J. Myrle Fuller
  • Cat Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,737
  • Gender: Male
  • Nonpartisan hack
    • Fullervision
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #2078 on: May 09, 2020, 01:23:18 pm »
There was a time the largest employer in my state was a steel mill, formerly employing 13,000; now around 600.
Now it's 1) Walmart and 2) various hospitals.
And in most towns, the public school system is usually the biggest employer.
New profile picture in honor of Public Domain Day 2024

Offline sneakypete

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 52,963
  • Twitter is for Twits
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #2079 on: May 09, 2020, 01:54:27 pm »
I haven't of heard of any layoffs around here lately, but usually hospitals and clinics are understaffed and they offer sign on bonuses to attract medical personnel to the area.

@libertybele

My daughter is a MD with her own small private practice,and she has been called in to the local hospital so often she has basically shut her doors and does phone consultations when she has time by returning phone calls.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 60,555
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #2080 on: May 09, 2020, 01:54:43 pm »
And in most towns, the public school system is usually the biggest employer.
...and perpetually crying for more money.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline sneakypete

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 52,963
  • Twitter is for Twits
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #2081 on: May 09, 2020, 01:57:37 pm »
We are a bit of a health mecca. Largely because of the pristine beauty... Rich old folks summer here.

But being able to lay off 600 pretty well puts the health system as the biggest employer around I think...
That used to be mills, roads, or logging. No more.

@roamer_1

Those 600 lost jobs are not happening in a vacuum. No one can predict how many other people that had jobs supporting or supplying those 600 hospital workers with goods,services,or just plain labor,like babysitting?

Like it or not,we are ALL interconnected with everyone else in the areas where we live.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 60,555
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #2082 on: May 09, 2020, 02:07:36 pm »
@roamer_1

Those 600 lost jobs are not happening in a vacuum. No one can predict how many other people that had jobs supporting or supplying those 600 hospital workers with goods,services,or just plain labor,like babysitting?

Like it or not,we are ALL interconnected with everyone else in the areas where we live.
That's true. Definitely felt here with the collapse of oil prices and the drilling industry.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline sneakypete

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 52,963
  • Twitter is for Twits
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #2083 on: May 09, 2020, 02:08:07 pm »
I am going to repost this. It is a "cover".

It is to and for all respect for first responders.


Error 404 (Not Found)!!1

@bigheadfred

The vocals were  too "fuzzy" for me to understand the words,but that was some pretty fine string bending,even before Brian May plugged in.

Who was the lead vocalist?
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Online bigheadfred

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,274
  • Gender: Male
  • One day Closer
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #2084 on: May 09, 2020, 02:40:33 pm »
And in most towns, the public school system is usually the biggest employer.

I am a cabinetmaker, deemed "essential" under Idaho terms. People want their cabinets. But they don't want us in their house. My boss is almost 63. I am almost 59. His help has always been "family". Not any more. Now he has me. When I first started he was very disrespectful. Any mistake he made he pushed off on his other two (and then me) employees. His now ex son in law and his grandson. That crap dint get very far with me.

We did a kitchen remodel back in late January. In the clients price range, a bit more than Home Depot or Lowe's..

He complimented us on his cabinets. But what really impressed him was our professional approach. Knowledged, quiet, clean. He sat on his couch and watched us work. They had decided to do an overhaul and lost the wall between their kitchen and front room. Hired a contractor to destruct. Took them a few weeks. So these people are living in their home without a kitchen. We go in and my boss tells the client to call that contractor and get the plumber, floor people, and electrician over there asap.

The guy was newly retired and his wife said hiya on her way to work. 

We were there for 9 hours.
Wife comes home and she has a new kitchen.

She was (OMG) amazed. Both I and the boss could have done the electrical and plumbing. It wasn't in our contract.

Cabinets and counter tops.

And she got there in time so I could show her the systems and advantages of her inter cabinet upgrades.

He shook our hands and thanked us for the show. Two elderly professional men. In and out.

Even more important. He said he knew some people that wanted some work done.

She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 60,555
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #2085 on: May 09, 2020, 02:43:23 pm »
@bigheadfred 
Quote
Even more important. He said he knew some people that wanted some work done.

That is gold, right there. Word of mouth referrals may start slow, but the word gets around.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online bigheadfred

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,274
  • Gender: Male
  • One day Closer
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #2086 on: May 09, 2020, 03:09:11 pm »
@bigheadfred 
That is gold, right there. Word of mouth referrals may start slow, but the word gets around.

We did a small install yesterday. Big fancy house. Trust me on this. They had a big mudroom coming in through the garage. They put up a new wall between the mud part and the bathroom part. They didn't tell us that, but I can see. Custom-built floor to ceiling cabinet at a 43 degree angle (note that--43 degree angle framers who didn't pass the second grade and dint learn about 3-4-5) single sink with three drawers each side. Matching mirror with space on the frame for whatever light they are gonna put in.

Danged roll out and roll up took longer than the install. I am the mule.

Boss comes walking by me and says sometimes you are too damned efficient. I said what are you looking for? He said that razor knife I had on the trailer.  I took him by the hand, walked out to the trailer, and put his hand on that razor knife. Right where he left it. Week by week, he gets friendlier.


She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Online bigheadfred

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,274
  • Gender: Male
  • One day Closer
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #2087 on: May 09, 2020, 03:39:14 pm »
@roamer_1

Those 600 lost jobs are not happening in a vacuum. No one can predict how many other people that had jobs supporting or supplying those 600 hospital workers with goods,services,or just plain labor,like babysitting?

Like it or not,we are ALL interconnected with everyone else in the areas where we live.

That woman in Texas that reopened her salon and got hammered.

My daughter is a professional stylist. Out of work. She ain't some gum-smacking little girl doing a trim. Makes more money than I do. Used to. Should be.

Health standards are pretty damned high here for people in that profession. On any given day. To shut them down pisses me off. You Don't want her to cut your hair? Fine. But don't stop her from doing hair for the people who want their hair done.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 60,555
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #2088 on: May 09, 2020, 03:39:47 pm »
We did a small install yesterday. Big fancy house. Trust me on this. They had a big mudroom coming in through the garage. They put up a new wall between the mud part and the bathroom part. They didn't tell us that, but I can see. Custom-built floor to ceiling cabinet at a 43 degree angle (note that--43 degree angle framers who didn't pass the second grade and dint learn about 3-4-5) single sink with three drawers each side. Matching mirror with space on the frame for whatever light they are gonna put in.

Danged roll out and roll up took longer than the install. I am the mule.

Boss comes walking by me and says sometimes you are too damned efficient. I said what are you looking for? He said that razor knife I had on the trailer.  I took him by the hand, walked out to the trailer, and put his hand on that razor knife. Right where he left it. Week by week, he gets friendlier.
Keep doing what you do, Fred. Have a little faith and they'll come around. Not all bosses are like a diaper.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online bigheadfred

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,274
  • Gender: Male
  • One day Closer
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #2089 on: May 09, 2020, 03:55:46 pm »
Keep doing what you do, Fred. Have a little faith and they'll come around. Not all bosses are like a diaper.

Joe,

I ain't going back on my Faith to find a little faith.

Weird in a way. My last employer didn't fire me. He didn't lay me off. I didn't quit. According to the state Unemployment/Labor people I 'simply' stopped having earnings reported. And my last boss told me to find another job. So I did.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 60,555
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #2090 on: May 09, 2020, 04:00:44 pm »
Joe,

I ain't going back on my Faith to find a little faith.

Weird in a way. My last employer didn't fire me. He didn't lay me off. I didn't quit. According to the state Unemployment/Labor people I 'simply' stopped having earnings reported. And my last boss told me to find another job. So I did.
I had that happen. When I found out that the company was traveling 600 miles to work 200 miles from my house in an area I'd worked before, I figured we were done. No mention of the work. No layoff, no termination.
 
So I got a call from another company and went to work. Then the bottom fell out.

Still working, just doing something very different.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online bigheadfred

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,274
  • Gender: Male
  • One day Closer
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #2091 on: May 09, 2020, 06:20:46 pm »
I had that happen. When I found out that the company was traveling 600 miles to work 200 miles from my house in an area I'd worked before, I figured we were done. No mention of the work. No layoff, no termination.
 
So I got a call from another company and went to work. Then the bottom fell out.

Still working, just doing something very different.

Flipping burgers pays the bills. Nah, not anymore, boomtown left, left. You have made your point clear. I know you ain't on a fishing boat in Alaska. Best bet is you are quarantined with your wlfe. Just kidding. I've spent, or maybe endured or stayed too many hours away from mine.

I watched a very interesting doc vid on Youtube about the stock market. Pointed towards fast trading Futures. Reference Haim?

If this mention is directed towards the wrong members...Fiscal...Physical....

@Hoodat  @catfish1957  @IsailedawayfromFR
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Online IsailedawayfromFR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,332
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #2092 on: May 09, 2020, 07:23:12 pm »
Flipping burgers pays the bills. Nah, not anymore, boomtown left, left. You have made your point clear. I know you ain't on a fishing boat in Alaska. Best bet is you are quarantined with your wlfe. Just kidding. I've spent, or maybe endured or stayed too many hours away from mine.

I watched a very interesting doc vid on Youtube about the stock market. Pointed towards fast trading Futures. Reference Haim?

If this mention is directed towards the wrong members...Fiscal...Physical....

@Hoodat  @catfish1957  @IsailedawayfromFR
@bigheadfred Thx for the reference.  I was unfamiliar with Bodek Haim but just watched his video and podcast.  He clearly has experience in the brokerage world and its complexity and I applaud anyone who exposes some of the 'dark secrets' of trading that most investors are unaware of that provided advantages to the more sophisticated investors.

I have always suspicion-ed normal people like us who buy or sell stock are at that disadvantage.  For that reason, I am not a frequent trader, but more of a buy and hold person or purchase highly rated mutual funds.

To me, I appreciate the insights from Buffett

'Only buy something that you’d be perfectly happy to hold if the market shut down for 10 years'

'Don't watch the market closely'

'Only invest in 'simple businesses' that you understand'


and finally

'Someone’s sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago'
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 45,593
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #2093 on: May 09, 2020, 07:34:12 pm »
@roamer_1

Those 600 lost jobs are not happening in a vacuum. No one can predict how many other people that had jobs supporting or supplying those 600 hospital workers with goods,services,or just plain labor,like babysitting?

Like it or not,we are ALL interconnected with everyone else in the areas where we live.

@sneakypete

Well yes, but no... Everybody the heck else was already 'laid off' by the woohan.
And 'health' is a service industry - Supposed to be peripheral. It's a taker not a maker.

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 60,555
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #2094 on: May 09, 2020, 07:36:32 pm »
Flipping burgers pays the bills. Nah, not anymore, boomtown left, left. You have made your point clear. I know you ain't on a fishing boat in Alaska. Best bet is you are quarantined with your wlfe. Just kidding. I've spent, or maybe endured or stayed too many hours away from mine.

I watched a very interesting doc vid on Youtube about the stock market. Pointed towards fast trading Futures. Reference Haim?

If this mention is directed towards the wrong members...Fiscal...Physical....

@Hoodat  @catfish1957  @IsailedawayfromFR
Just working on a road crew when weather permits, directing traffic. I figure this will get most of the bills paid (better if the weather will permit) until Fall. I have delivered pizzas, but never flipped burgers.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline LegalAmerican

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,124
  • Gender: Female
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #2095 on: May 09, 2020, 07:53:41 pm »
...and perpetually crying for more money.

 They are run by UNIONS.....    And nothing changes for 'the kids'.  What a ploy.  Most 'teachers' are NOT essential.  888mouth

Online bigheadfred

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,274
  • Gender: Male
  • One day Closer
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #2096 on: May 09, 2020, 07:59:52 pm »
Thank you for the reply.

When I stood against them in 97 they hammered me beneath the ground. I did that. I own that. But what they did to my family I will NEVER forgive.

They were out of bounds. They later admitted it. So what? I spent a long time in prison. For a conviction that had no cause. No merit. Except for the fact I stood against them and "cried" foul. THEY ADMITTED THAT.

So what am I ?

A woman in Texas that gets her ass thrown in jail and fined? Yeah. I am her. She is me.

I am Spartacus. @DCPatriot @Cyber Liberty @roamer_1 @mystery-ak @Smokin Joe

I have tried so very hard to overcome that. To provide for my family. As I grow older it seems to be an impossible act.

They haven't killed me yet. Is that my mistake?

Or is it theirs?

"O ye of little faith"
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 60,555
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #2097 on: May 09, 2020, 08:01:08 pm »
They are run by UNIONS.....    And nothing changes for 'the kids'.  What a ploy.  Most 'teachers' are NOT essential.  888mouth
When I was in first grade, there were 32 students, taught by one nun. We had occasional inspirational visits from our resident track-mounted nun who was lots of fun if we were on her good side, but wielded the WMD (Weapon of Metacarpal Destruction--a stout yardstick with brass endcaps)  for those who got out of line.

So it was through all my grades until Junior High, when we had multiple teachers and wandered from class to class.

We only had a guidance counselor who was supposed to help us find a career or college prep track.

Now the local HS is swarming with facilitators and aides and counselors and frankly, staff who aren't as important as the cooks in the cafeteria in terms of a kid actually learning anything.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 60,555
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #2098 on: May 09, 2020, 08:03:45 pm »
Thank you for the reply.

When I stood against them in 97 they hammered me beneath the ground. I did that. I own that. But what they did to my family I will NEVER forgive.

They were out of bounds. They later admitted it. So what? I spent a long time in prison. For a conviction that had no cause. No merit. Except for the fact I stood against them and "cried" foul. THEY ADMITTED THAT.

So what am I ?

A woman in Texas that gets her ass thrown in jail and fined? Yeah. I am her. She is me.

I am Spartacus. @DCPatriot @Cyber Liberty @roamer_1 @mystery-ak @Smokin Joe

I have tried so very hard to overcome that. To provide for my family. As I grow older it seems to be an impossible act.

They haven't killed me yet. Is that my mistake?

Or is it theirs?

"O ye of little faith"
As many opportunities as I have had to be seriously injured or killed that missed that mark, sometimes by fractions of an inch, and left me unscathed, I figure there is a reason I am here, something I have yet to do. They also serve who stand and wait, but sometimes the little things we do have importance far beyond the moment.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 45,593
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #2099 on: May 09, 2020, 08:20:01 pm »
Thank you for the reply.

When I stood against them in 97 they hammered me beneath the ground. I did that. I own that. But what they did to my family I will NEVER forgive.

They were out of bounds. They later admitted it. So what? I spent a long time in prison. For a conviction that had no cause. No merit. Except for the fact I stood against them and "cried" foul. THEY ADMITTED THAT.

So what am I ?

A woman in Texas that gets her ass thrown in jail and fined? Yeah. I am her. She is me.

I am Spartacus. @DCPatriot @Cyber Liberty @roamer_1 @mystery-ak @Smokin Joe

I have tried so very hard to overcome that. To provide for my family. As I grow older it seems to be an impossible act.

They haven't killed me yet. Is that my mistake?

Or is it theirs?

"O ye of little faith"

Ah, a brother from another mother...
If there is more than one way to do it, for me, every time, it's the hard way.
I will stand for what is right and true no matter what, and that path is narrow and rocky... And sometimes leads you where you do not want to go.

But I always get up again. Yes I do.
Tubthumping. It's what I do.

Maybe it's a redneck thing.  :beer: :shrug: