Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2

[Cyber Liberty]

I don't know what kind of mayor your guy is (is he a leftist?), so I have no idea what his motivation was.  He had the freedom to buck the trend if he wanted to.  His choice was his choice, and if it was stupid, he'll pay the political price for it.

That's the way things work in America.

DeWine will be reelected in a landslide.

My Mayor is not a leftist, but he had to knuckle under because the Governor usurped his role.  He's pizzed.

[txradioguy]

Get some new arguments, txradioguy.

This is NOT the flu  It is at least twice as contagious as the flu.   The only comparable pandemic was in 1918.  The cities that mandated social distancing had a significantly smaller death toll than the ones who let things go.

St. Louis is the example given of one of the smart cities in 1918.  Now, I've been to St. Louis a whole mess of times (daughter lives there),  and, let me tell you........ it wasn't a police state, and it won't be a police state after the greatest part of this threat is over in a matter of weeks.

Fear not, my friend.  Life will return to the way you want it to be, with no further freedoms eroded in Texas or Ohio because we had to stay home for a little while.

Stay safe.................. whether you want to or not.  You're an asset to this forum, and I wouldn't want you getting sick from this miserable virus, so take care of yourself.

That's what I'm doing, and I'm feeling good about it. 

You keep saying this isn’t like the flu but keep using a flu pandemic from 112 years ago as an example.

Hmmm.

And I notice you keep skipping over a more recent pandemic. The 2009 H1N1

I don’t need new arguments because for one thing you refuse to even engage the arguments presented before you and instead spew out hyperbole and spin. What I’m asking you are questions...ones that seem to make you a bit uncomfortable to either answer or face because you are intentionally ducking them.

Why is that?

[txradioguy]

My Mayor is not a leftist, but he had to knuckle under because the Governor usurped his role.  He's pizzed.

In the Army we call that being “volun-told”.

[musiclady]

I agree. If the local hospitals are not overloaded then there's little need for heavy restrictions. The local medical resource utilization ought to drive whatever the local directives need to be to keep things below triage levels. Much lower than triage levels only extends the down time without much long term benefit.

Exactly.

The motivation here has been to keep the medical resources available for the people most in need, to expand the capacity of hospitals and medical personnel, to get PPE's and ventilators and other supplies needed to care for the sick and dying, and to keep the hospital and nursing home staff healthy and safe.

It is for that reason that we, in Ohio, are staying home.  We're not only keeping ourselves safe, but we're helping our hospitals and medical first responders and healthcare givers from having to deal with what they're having to do in NY.

It's an easy choice, which is why the vast, vast majority of us are willingly complying with the stay and home order.

We get the point.  And we know it will be over sooner because we stayed home.

As far as I know, there's no Constitutional right to sit and eat dinner at Olive Garden, so we're good there too. 

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Gov. DeWine and Mayor Ginther of Columbus shut down the Arnold Classic (Schwartzenegger fitness gathering), March 4, before the first cases were diagnosed on March 9.  There were none here, but epimiologists knew the virus had been seeded in Ohio.

Because of that, 250,000 people from around the world did NOT gather together in the State Capitol, and because of that and social distancing orders - schools, bars, restaurants closed - put in place earlier than any other state, the number of cases in Ohio is significantly lower......... less than 5,000........ rather than any of the projected models.

It may be stupid in Mojave County because of lack of population density (though I doubt it), but those orders are saving thousands of people from suffering and sometimes dying.

Think of it as evacuating before a hurricane, and it makes more sense.  This is a very real storm (naysayers claims notwithstanding), and getting people out of danger is the responsible thing to do.  Because Ohio's leaders thought everything through early on, though I am in the 7th most populous state in the country, I am much, much safer than I would have been without the measures they put in place early on (think Michigan).

This is not a "police state."  This is shelter in a time of storm.  Just like in 1918, when the threat is abating, the rules will be relaxed, and no one's freedom will suffer in the long term, but maybe their lives will be saved.  (In leftist run states, they haven't had freedom before this, so what the goofy Governors are doing there is a non-starter in terms of debate.  They're totalitarian states to begin with).

The closing of the Arnold Classic was a terribly difficult decision, but wise people made that call, and we are safer for it.

[Smokin Joe]

You are right. Not the Flu.

Influenza in ND:
12397 cases (all strains) in 2020
18 deaths, likely underreported.
http://www.ndflu.com/
Schools open, all businesses open, no shutdowns for influenza.
No travel restrictions.

COVID-19 in ND:
237 cases
4 deaths.
https://www.health.nd.gov/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/north-dakota-coronavirus-cases

Mandatory shutdowns for schools, bars, restaurants, recreation, and entertainment businesses.

While nonessential travel has been asked to be avoided, it is not mandatory to do so.
Other businesses are open, at the discretion of the owners.

 

[musiclady]

You keep saying this isn’t like the flu but keep using a flu pandemic from 112 years ago as an example.

Hmmm.

And I notice you keep skipping over a more recent pandemic. The 2009 H1N1

I don’t need new arguments because for one thing you refuse to even engage the arguments presented before you and instead spew out hyperbole and spin. What I’m asking you are questions...ones that seem to make you a bit uncomfortable to either answer or face because you are intentionally ducking them.

Why is that?

Because I've already responded to the H1N1 situation.  I guess you didn't read it.

We had a moron in the WH and a sycophant press who covered for him.  The casualties were greater then because we had no leadership. 

But I will repeat it because it is the TRUTH.  This is NOT the flu.  This spreads at least twice as fast as the flu, stays alive in a freezer for 2 years, has unknown complications and an unknown future for those who have had it, it had no treatment....... just experimental stuff now, and has no vaccine.  All you have to do is ask ANY healthcare worker in the field, and you'll get that reinforced.  Factually.

NONE of what I have said is hyperbole.
 
You can keep trying to trip me up with your faulty arguments, but you won't win, because the truth of the situation is on my side.  I'm listening to the experts, not going with my gut feelings.

So unless you have a new argument, there's no need to waste bandwidth on this thread going around and around.

We're Americans.  We'll come out on the other side of this just fine............ maybe better.  The vast majority of us are in this together, and we'll beat it together.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

"One size fits all" is never a sound strategy.  The "current crisis" is not an exception. 

Consistency in an age of Americans taking fish tank cleaner as a medicine, is a sound policy.  It is too easy to misunderstand what necessary means to 350 million people.  Stay the f*ck home is clear to everyone.

[Smokin Joe]

Consistency in an age of Americans taking fish tank cleaner as a medicine, is a sound policy.  It is too easy to misunderstand what necessary means to 350 million people.  Stay the f*ck home is clear to everyone.

Y'see, if everyone else stays home, there is no one out there to infect me!

[Cyber Liberty]

Consistency in an age of Americans taking fish tank cleaner as a medicine, is a sound policy.  It is too easy to misunderstand what necessary means to 350 million people.  Stay the f*ck home is clear to everyone.

Which is exactly what the good people of my rural County were doing, until the Governor stuck his fat nose into our business.  It's one thing to do the right thing voluntarily, and it's another for the Governor of a State to step on the locals and force them to do what they already were doing.  It fosters more disrespect of Government.

I woke up the day after the Order from Lord God King Ducey and said "We were already doing it by choice!  Now I'm pissed we're doing it because we've been ordered to do it."  I notice it did nothing to bring toilet paper back to the stores.  it never does.

[musiclady]

Which is exactly what the good people of my rural County were doing, until the Governor stuck his fat nose into our business.  It's one thing to do the right thing voluntarily, and it's another for the Governor of a State to step on the locals and force them to do what they already were doing.  It fosters more disrespect of Government.

I woke up the day after the Order from Lord God King Ducey and said "We were already doing it by choice!  Now I'm pissed we're doing it because we've been ordered to do it."  I notice it did nothing to bring toilet paper back to the stores.  it never does.

Me ML found TP at Kroger today!  The world as we know it is saved!! 

[Cyber Liberty]

Me ML found TP at Kroger today!  The world as we know it is saved!! 

 

I'll be looking for it in about a month. 

[PeteS in CA]

Which is exactly what the good people of my rural County were doing, until the Governor stuck his fat nose into our business.  It's one thing to do the right thing voluntarily, and it's another for the Governor of a State to step on the locals and force them to do what they already were doing.  It fosters more disrespect of Government.
...

I've only heard of two Americans who took "fish tank cleaner", that couple in Mesa (= Maricopa County).

[Cyber Liberty]

I've only heard of two Americans who took "fish tank cleaner", that couple in Mesa (= Maricopa County).

That is highly suspicious.  She took a lot less than he did, and they'd had marital problems for years.  That's a murder, IMHO.  There are murder mysteries where somebody poisoned themselves with "safe" levels of poison, to throw suspicion off themselves.  I really hope the Mesa detectives are digging into this angle, but I don't have a lot of faith they will.  I know them, having lived there.

[musiclady]

I'll be looking for it in about a month.

You think it will travel in a Conestoga wagon??

[bigheadfred]

That is highly suspicious.  She took a lot less than he did, and they'd had marital problems for years.  That's a murder, IMHO.  There are murder mysteries where somebody poisoned themselves with "safe" levels of poison, to throw suspicion off themselves.  I really hope the Mesa detectives are digging into this angle, but I don't have a lot of faith they will. I know them, having lived there.

hahaha

[bigheadfred]

You think it will travel in a Conestoga wagon??

All I know is when a roll of toilet paper costs more than a gallon of gasoline something ain't right.

[Cyber Liberty]

You think it will travel in a Conestoga wagon??

It would have to.  People are lining up at the trucks.

[txradioguy]

Brit Hume
@brithume
 Â· 3h
Well, Dr. Birx just said it. Anyone in U.S. who dies with Covid 19, regardless of what else may be wrong, is now being recorded as a Covid 19 death.



We will never know the exact numbers...only the exaggerated ones used to fit a particular Bill Gates "model" if this is allowed to stand has the official reporting procedure.

[DB]

Brit Hume
@brithume
 Â· 3h
Well, Dr. Birx just said it. Anyone in U.S. who dies with Covid 19, regardless of what else may be wrong, is now being recorded as a Covid 19 death.



We will never know the exact numbers...only the exaggerated ones used to fit a particular Bill Gates "model" if this is allowed to stand has the official reporting procedure.

And how would you propose determining exactly what killed them? There is no practical way of determining it. Nothing about this is an exact science.

According to Google about 48.5% of the US population has heart disease. If one of those people that has had heart disease for years gets this this virus and dies two weeks later what are you going to attribute their death to? You could legitimately say both. But that person would likely still be alive if they hadn't got the virus. And could well have continued to live many years. Isn't it the thing that pushes you over the edge what "killed you"?

[txradioguy]

And how would you propose determining exactly what killed them? There is no practical way of determining it. Nothing about this is an exact science.

How about we don't claim a person died of corona virus when the actual ailment that killed them wasn't the virus was heart disease or diabetes or a stroke just because they tested positive for the virus doesn't mean that's what killed them.

[DB]

How about we don't claim a person died of corona virus when the actual ailment that killed them wasn't the virus was heart disease or diabetes or a stroke just because they tested positive for the virus doesn't mean that's what killed them.

Again, how do you determine that? An autopsy for every one of them? It isn't that simple.

[catfish1957]

All I know is when a roll of toilet paper costs more than a gallon of gasoline something ain't right.

Tonight, I saw two Charmin Toilet Paper Commericals on TV.

Looked over at my wife, and told her that was the biggest waste of ad dollars in human history.

His hiney might be clean, but in two weeks, mine won't be.   

[libertybele]

Brit Hume
@brithume
 Â· 3h
Well, Dr. Birx just said it. Anyone in U.S. who dies with Covid 19, regardless of what else may be wrong, is now being recorded as a Covid 19 death.



We will never know the exact numbers...only the exaggerated ones used to fit a particular Bill Gates "model" if this is allowed to stand has the official reporting procedure.

Not sure I agree with the exaggeration -- People who are infected with COVID-19 with symptoms severe enough wind up in the hospital.  At that point, pre-existing conditions decrease the chances of survival because of the impact on already compromised health.  Someone who is on blood pressure medication and their blood pressure is under control and then becomes infected with COVID-19 isn't going to go to the hospital because of their blood pressure, they will go to the hospital because of the severity of the COVID-19 symptoms.  Those with pre-existing conditions make COVID-19 more difficult to treat as it has a more severe impact on someone's health that is already compromised.

I can only comment on the reporting in my state. The FL Department of Health lists the number of ALL reported COVID-19 cases and the number of cases that are hospitalized for each county and the number of deaths.  Using my county as an example we have 439 cases, 81 hospitalizations and 14 deaths.  The hospitalizations don't necessarily indicate that those patients are still in the hospital, only that, the figure given is for the number of patients in the county who have been hospitalized because of COVID-19.  So roughly 18% of patients who have the virus are or have been hospitalized.  The fatality rate is 3% for those patients who had confirmed COVID-19.

I don't find any data that would suggest that anyone dying, would automatically be recorded as a COVID-19 death; but logically if someone presents with COVID-19 and has a heart condition and dies from complications, I think it would be assumed that the cause of death would be COVID-19 and not the heart condition -- the virus exacerbated the heart condition, not the other way around. IOW the pre-existing condition is just that.  The virus is an additional negative element added to that condition.

[Bigun]

How about we look at the average number of deaths over the same time period (let's say December thru May) month by month for the previous five years and compare that to this year's numbers and see where we really are?