Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2

[TomSea]

It had better be time to start posting articles from Newsbusters.org and other sources, as they try to blame this on the Prez. In the end, though, of course, I want the truth, however it falls.

CBS: Trump 'Acted too Late,' Left Us 'Unprepared,' and 'Costing Lives'
Nicholas C. Fondacaro is a News Analyst for the Media Research Center

Despite the fact President Trump banned flights from China from entering the U.S. back in January (a move praised by Dr. Anthony Fauci as crucial to the fight against the coronavirus), the CBS Evening News and White House correspondent Weijia Jiang spent a portion of Wednesday’s program pushing suggestions the administration had acted too slowly and it was costing American lives.

The assault against the President was vicious. “That change in policy comes amid criticism of the administration by governors nationwide over a lack of desperately needed medical supplies,” anchor Norah O’Donnell declared. Playing off of O’Donnell, Jiang discounted reassurances from the President that the supplies were on the way. “He says the country is preparing for the worst as questions continue to mount over whether he acted too late,” she chided.

Jiang also knocked Vice President Mike Pence for having reminded people that early CDC projections showed America with a low risk of a widespread outbreak. Now, they latch onto projections that show 100-240,000 Americans possibly dying. She followed up by touting liberal governors who were looking to China and praising the communists:

Read more at: https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/nicholas-fondacaro/2020/04/01/cbs-trump-acted-too-late-left-us-unprepared-and-costing-lives

Looks like we or at least, some of us may have to defend all of this.

This is more analysis, not sure if this is a straightup editorial, gray area.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

The spending is unnecessary.

I understand you think there is a deep state conspiracy of the President, the unanimous Congress, the state Governors, our American intelligence institutions, and the media to destroy America.  I won't be able to talk you out of it, but I do miss the old days when I could forget everything and just unconditionally hate on President Trump. When we hit the first 100k could you please use this avatar?



Perhaps I could re-live that purity of anger vicariously through you. 

[roamer_1]

Bingo!

You can buy em books... They won't hear you.

[txradioguy]

I understand you think there is a deep state conspiracy of the President, the unanimous Congress, the state Governors, our American intelligence institutions, and the media to destroy America.  I won't be able to talk you out of it, but I do miss the old days when I could forget everything and just unconditionally hate on President Trump. When we hit the first 100k could you please use this avatar?



Perhaps I could re-live that purity of anger vicariously through you.

None of the above actually. I’m just explaining the reality of the situation and the unhealthy (for the country) nature of politics and politicians.

[DB]

Not really. quasi-quarantine is not really quarantine. As can readily be shown in the city centers where this thing is exploding. At the personal level it may help - if housebound with adequate supply, you are basically not exposed. But that is not true in the aggregate. All of this is basically useless.

It is "exploding" because there's a 1 to 2 week delay from exposure to symptoms. New York locked down about 11 days ago. But you already know this.

Having millions get sick at nearly the same time would be a disaster for our hospitals. It would also be a disaster for everyone else that needs emergency care for any number of other medical conditions that occur in that same time window. You also already know this too.

We both know that it is likely most people will end up getting this. Either over a short period of time or spread out over more time. More people live with it spread over more time. More people go bankrupt spreading it over more time. Somewhere there's a balance in there. I don't claim to know where that balance is.

There is no magic solution that will stop the destruction. Hopefully we will find the path that keeps it nearer the lower bounds.

We're going to have to wait to see what actually happens to know if the choices made were prudent or not. Especially when compared to the outcomes of other countries that make different choices.

[roamer_1]

It is "exploding" because there's a 1 to 2 week delay from exposure to symptoms. New York locked down about 11 days ago. But you already know this.

Well, sorta... There is up to 2 weeks (and maybe even more). Symptoms can show up in as little as three to five days. But your point is taken - the 'carrier' phase is the problem, even as it is in every virus.

Having millions get sick at nearly the same time would be a disaster for our hospitals. It would also be a disaster for everyone else that needs emergency care for any number of other medical conditions that occur in that same time window. You also already know this too.

Right... As is happening even now in every hot spot. So where's the 'flattening'? And again, this is a logistics argument, not a medical one, and one would have been better to rely on logistics experts rather than the health system. As I have said before, the lockdown has created the static assets and the empty pipeline for resources in all areas.

We both know that it is likely most people will end up getting this. Either over a short period of time or spread out over more time. More people live with it spread over more time. More people go bankrupt spreading it over more time. Somewhere there's a balance in there. I don't claim to know where that balance is.

A false dilemma created by turning off the spigots. Causing mass bankruptcy was never necessary and is in fact counterproductive, with little to show for it - health systems in hotspots are overwhelmed anyway. in but days. So it has done nothing.

There is no magic solution that will stop the destruction. Hopefully we will find the path that keeps it nearer the lower bounds.

There WAS a magic bullet - Relying on superior medical systems and a matchless logistical capability. but instead, we shut all that off, just like every other idiot government on the planet. FEAR.

We're going to have to wait to see what actually happens to know if the choices made were prudent or not. Especially when compared to the outcomes of other countries that make different choices.

No, there will be nothing different to compare to, and what could have been cannot be known. But the outcome it would have had can be assessed.

In the mean time, all the fear-mongers and scare-mongers are adjusting the expectations downward, so that in the end, they are somewhere close to what it was all the way along. Just like what happens in polling.

Suckers. Chicken friggin Little.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

It is "exploding" because there's a 1 to 2 week delay from exposure to symptoms. New York locked down about 11 days ago. But you already know this.

Having millions get sick at nearly the same time would be a disaster for our hospitals. It would also be a disaster for everyone else that needs emergency care for any number of other medical conditions that occur in that same time window. You also already know this too.

We both know that it is likely most people will end up getting this. Either over a short period of time or spread out over more time. More people live with it spread over more time. More people go bankrupt spreading it over more time. Somewhere there's a balance in there. I don't claim to know where that balance is.

There is no magic solution that will stop the destruction. Hopefully we will find the path that keeps it nearer the lower bounds.

We're going to have to wait to see what actually happens to know if the choices made were prudent or not. Especially when compared to the outcomes of other countries that make different choices.

YOU'RE SPREADING PANIC!!!  YOU'RE PART OF THE PROBLEM!!!   

Just kidding.  Agreed and good post @DB

[Smokin Joe]

Read somewhere today that states like New York aren't differentiating between people who died because of the Chinese Virus and those that tested positive but died from other ailments.

THIS is why people rightfully don't trust the numbers and the comparisons to 9/11 and the panic inducing "potential for 200K deaths" that even Fox News is running with now.

For starters, 9/11 was a one-off, one time, one day event. It wasn't contagious although people suffered injuries from recovery and rescue efforts that still cost those who responded their health and vigour, and have cost many their lives well after the event.


A disease is something different.
(Notice, AIDS isn't compared to 9/11.)
This virus is only partly contracted through behaviour, that behaviour encouraged by some of the experts where the virus is now worst. 

It's apples to oranges, though to compare 9/11 to COVID-19.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

For starters, 9/11 was a one-off, one time, one day event. It wasn't contagious although people suffered injuries from recovery and rescue efforts that still cost those who responded their health and vigour, and have cost many their lives well after the event.


A disease is something different.
(Notice, AIDS isn't compared to 9/11.)
This virus is only partly contracted through behaviour, that behaviour encouraged by some of the experts where the virus is now worst. 

It's apples to oranges, though to compare 9/11 to COVID-19.

I looks to me like we will be losing a 9/11 daily, in just a few more day to a week.

[Smokin Joe]

I looks to me like we will be losing a 9/11 daily, in just a few more day to a week.

Maybe we can collapse some tall buildings, knock down walls at the Pentagon, and make craters in Pennsylvania with COVID-19, too?

Funny, how with all the shit I was given for comparing this bug with other causes of death, it's okay for other people to trot out 9/11, but then maybe this is an act of international terrorism, too.

Or is it that the media (and assorted detractors) are trying to associate the horror we all felt at the acts of international terrorists in 2001 with a president who didn't have anything to do with either event, except to use the power of his office to try to slow this one down?

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Maybe we can collapse some tall buildings, knock down walls at the Pentagon, and make craters in Pennsylvania with COVID-19, too?

Funny, how with all the shit I was given for comparing this bug with other causes of death, it's okay for other people to trot out 9/11, but then maybe this is an act of international terrorism, too.

Or is it that the media (and assorted detractors) are trying to associate the horror we all felt at the acts of international terrorists in 2001 with a president who didn't have anything to do with either event, except to use the power of his office to try to slow this one down?

I'm so sorry this is happening to you @Smokin Joe .

The horror is 5,000 dead and 1,000 fatalities yesterday.  I clearly don't give a crap about the money, or pointing fingers of blame.  My comment is 9/11=3,000 horrific deaths, and we are trending toward 3,000 deaths a day.  You need not read anything more into my comment.

[txradioguy]

For starters, 9/11 was a one-off, one time, one day event. It wasn't contagious although people suffered injuries from recovery and rescue efforts that still cost those who responded their health and vigour, and have cost many their lives well after the event.


A disease is something different.
(Notice, AIDS isn't compared to 9/11.)
This virus is only partly contracted through behaviour, that behaviour encouraged by some of the experts where the virus is now worst. 

It's apples to oranges, though to compare 9/11 to COVID-19.

QFT

[txradioguy]

I'm so sorry this is happening to you @Smokin Joe .

The horror is 5,000 dead and 1,000 fatalities yesterday.  I clearly don't give a crap about the money, or pointing fingers of blame.  My comment is 9/11=3,000 horrific deaths, and we are trending toward 3,000 deaths a day.  You need not read anything more into my comment.

So you’re admitting China used this disease as a bio terror weapon and as such a terrorist attack on the world?

Because that’s the only way a comparison to 9/11 is even relevant.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

So you’re admitting China used this disease as a bio terror weapon and as such a terrorist attack on the world?

Because that’s the only way a comparison to 9/11 is even relevant.

9/11=3,000 horrific deaths, and we are trending toward 3,000 deaths a day.  You need not read anything more into my comment.

[txradioguy]

9/11=3,000 horrific deaths, and we are trending toward 3,000 deaths a day.  You need not read anything more into my comment.

Yes or no. Is this a terror attack by the Chinese on the rest of the world?

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Yes or no. Is this a terror attack by the Chinese on the rest of the world?

I don't know.  It's a question worth asking when the dying subsides and Congress can reconvene.  That would also be a good time to revisit who else besides China is to blame.

[Smokin Joe]

9/11=3,000 horrific deaths, and we are trending toward 3,000 deaths a day.  You need not read anything more into my comment.

Well, has it passed the 2362 abortions/day (Guttmacher Institute figure), but no one whinged about that, the real leading cause of death in the US. Hard to get much more horrific than shredded and chemically poisoned babies, but they do, they sell the parts. Anyway, that would be number one, ahead of Heart Disease and Cancer but those are ranked first and second because no one apparently counts dead babies.
The 2362 are pretty much preventable. But funding for that outfit (Planned murderhood Parenthood) is likely in either this or some succeeding stimulus package, even though the run was on toilet paper not condoms.

It is sad that any obviously intelligent person should lower themselves to passive aggressive bullshit to throw poo at the POTUS in hard times, but apparently, it happens.

[catfish1957]

I don't know.  It's a question worth asking when the dying subsides and Congress can reconvene.  That would also be a good time to revisit who else besides China is to blame.

Here are my thinking processes on this thus far.

(1) There is a lot of anecdotal stuff out there that this was an engineered bio-weapon, some plausible, some tinfoil.
(2) No 100% irrefuable proof yet though of (1)
(3) The Chicoms through prior actions have established of pattern of where they can't be trusted, or ever should be.
(4) I think there is a near zero chance that they did it on purpose.  No reason to unleash this on their own, citizens, the entire world, and not expect retribution from the rest of the world.  Not even the arrogant Chicom leaders would want to risk a world tribunal that would in a sense would be a trial mass murder.  Wild guess is that the probability of the likelyhood of this being an intentional bio-weapon is 10% at best
(5) OTOH, I'd also venture that there is a 40-50% chance that this is a bio-weapon that accidentaly breached containment.  Coincidence that ground zero was near their bio-research center in Wuhan?  Hmmmmmmm
(6) Lastly, and also at 40-50% chance is that this an Animal-Human transmission.  There is widespread acceptance that the Chinese also intitiated the SARS epidemic via their taste for exotic cuisine.  This shit has got to stop.  It is just a matter of time that a disease with the communicability of COVID-19, and the lethality of Ebola is realized.

[musiclady]

No they are doing what Italy did and amping all deaths into the "died from Chinese Virus" category whether it was a heart attack or COPD or whatever that killed them.

Let's say you have the virus..you're asymptomatic and yet you get hit by a bus crossing the street.  Should your death be lumped into the "death by coronavirus" stats for that day/month/year?

That is what's happening in NY right now.

No it's not.  You seriously need to quit buying into the media/Progressive panic hype being spread these days.

How are you and a few others going to feel about your hand wringing "sky is falling" mindset when this tops out at less deaths in the U.S. than H1N1 or the amount of deaths we experience in just a normal flu season?

Will you come back and admit you bought into the hype?

I don't think the sky is falling, and I haven't even listened to the media hype.

I know that's an easy accusation to make when you feel the need to accuse rather than discuss, but it's not the truth.  But I do understand why you feel the need to make it.

I have only discussed here, the reality...... the medical reality....... of what is happening.  I am listening to enough people I know in the field of medicine (and I know a lot, personally), who happen to be political conservatives and trustworthy people to know that we are dealing with a different animal here, and that social distancing is required to slow down the spread and allow the hospitals to prepare for what's to come.

FYI, one of my sources is a politically conservative, US Navy doctor (just came back from 3 years stationed in Okinawa).  He is a personal friend, who is an Orthopedic Surgeon, now manning a medical triage tent to determine if patients may have COVID-19

His words??  This is serious.  PLEASE STAY HOME.

He's not an alarmist.  He's not leftist media.  He's not a Trump hater.  He's not an emotional type.

But he IS medically educated beyond what he reads on the Internet...... which I'm guessing isn't the case with you.

So I will continue to believe, without any form of panic, the experts in the medical field, and not be swayed by people who don't really know what they're talking about.

Sorry about rejecting your insults, @txradioguy .  But of all the many people I know personally without any leftist agenda, I will trust the experts and not you.

btw, if this turns out to be not as bad as the worst cases scenarios (which, of course, it will), it will be because so many Americans actually took the advice of the experts, stayed home and slowed the spread, saving them from a very nasty death.

[jmyrlefuller]

FDA gives okay to Roswell Park and UB to test COVID-19 treatment
https://www.wivb.com/health/coronavirus/fda-gives-okay-to-roswell-park-and-ub-to-test-covid-19-treatment/

"... a new treatment for patients diagnosed with COVID-19. This is part of a national study using the anti-inflammatory agent “sarilumab.”"

(This is one I haven't heard about, and hasn't received as much attention as the chloroquine derivatives or remdesivir, so I'm not sure how effective this will be.)

[mountaineer]

University of Pittsburgh reports successful COVID-19 vaccine trial
    By ERIC POOLE Herald Assistant Editor | News 23 min ago

PITTSBURGH – Researchers at the University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine report initial success in animal trials for a vaccine to neutralize the virus that causes COVID-19.

During tests in mice, the vaccine was shown to produce antibodies specific to SARS-CoV-2, known as the novel coronavirus. University researchers said the mice responded with antibodies sufficient to neutralize the virus.

The researchers released their findings today in a paper published in EBioMedicine, published by The Lancet, a leading British medical journal.

The authors said they are now in the process of seeking investigatory new drug approval from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration with expectation of beginning human clinical trial within the next few months.  ...  More

[musiclady]

University of Pittsburgh reports successful COVID-19 vaccine trial
    By ERIC POOLE Herald Assistant Editor | News 23 min ago

PITTSBURGH – Researchers at the University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine report initial success in animal trials for a vaccine to neutralize the virus that causes COVID-19.

During tests in mice, the vaccine was shown to produce antibodies specific to SARS-CoV-2, known as the novel coronavirus. University researchers said the mice responded with antibodies sufficient to neutralize the virus.

The researchers released their findings today in a paper published in EBioMedicine, published by The Lancet, a leading British medical journal.

The authors said they are now in the process of seeking investigatory new drug approval from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration with expectation of beginning human clinical trial within the next few months.  ...  More

Praise the Lord for American ingenuity and medical initiative.  This is very good news!  Hopefully the FDA, with some heavy-duty prodding by the Trump administration, will cut the bureaucracy and get this moving.

[libertybele]

FDA gives okay to Roswell Park and UB to test COVID-19 treatment
https://www.wivb.com/health/coronavirus/fda-gives-okay-to-roswell-park-and-ub-to-test-covid-19-treatment/

"... a new treatment for patients diagnosed with COVID-19. This is part of a national study using the anti-inflammatory agent “sarilumab.”"

(This is one I haven't heard about, and hasn't received as much attention as the chloroquine derivatives or remdesivir, so I'm not sure how effective this will be.)

It is my understanding that the virus turns the immune system in the body against itself  that is why the drug for AIDS is being tested and used; it also causes inflammation in the lungs which is why this drug is being considered.  Most viruses and diseases that we contract cause some sort of inflammation in the body.

Sarilumab is a human monoclonal antibody against the interleukin-6 receptor. Regeneron Pharmaceuticals and Sanofi developed the drug for the treatment of rheumatoid arthritis, for which it received US FDA approval on 22 May 2017

ttps://www.healio.com/rheumatology/rheumatoid-arthritis/news/online/{1957db6e-f7a2-4e5d-939e-d4b5964b2dd3}/sarilumab-enters-clinical-trial-for-covid-19-spotlighting-key-role-for-il-6

[txradioguy]

I don't think the sky is falling, and I haven't even listened to the media hype.

I know that's an easy accusation to make when you feel the need to accuse rather than discuss, but it's not the truth.  But I do understand why you feel the need to make it.

I have only discussed here, the reality...... the medical reality....... of what is happening.  I am listening to enough people I know in the field of medicine (and I know a lot, personally), who happen to be political conservatives and trustworthy people to know that we are dealing with a different animal here, and that social distancing is required to slow down the spread and allow the hospitals to prepare for what's to come.

FYI, one of my sources is a politically conservative, US Navy doctor (just came back from 3 years stationed in Okinawa).  He is a personal friend, who is an Orthopedic Surgeon, now manning a medical triage tent to determine if patients may have COVID-19

His words??  This is serious.  PLEASE STAY HOME.

He's not an alarmist.  He's not leftist media.  He's not a Trump hater.  He's not an emotional type.

But he IS medically educated beyond what he reads on the Internet...... which I'm guessing isn't the case with you.

So I will continue to believe, without any form of panic, the experts in the medical field, and not be swayed by people who don't really know what they're talking about.

Sorry about rejecting your insults, @txradioguy .  But of all the many people I know personally without any leftist agenda, I will trust the experts and not you.

btw, if this turns out to be not as bad as the worst cases scenarios (which, of course, it will), it will be because so many Americans actually took the advice of the experts, stayed home and slowed the spread, saving them from a very nasty death.

If this is so bad and is gone kill so many people..why don't we do this same kind of nation wide panic attack for the Flu?

Why wasn't there this kind of forced incarnation in our own homes in 2009? (H1N1)

There's a purposeful crowd psychology going on here to cause people to act like they are right now.

And it's really sad to see otherwise intelligent and logical people falling for it.

[libertybele]

I don't think the sky is falling, and I haven't even listened to the media hype.

I know that's an easy accusation to make when you feel the need to accuse rather than discuss, but it's not the truth.  But I do understand why you feel the need to make it.

I have only discussed here, the reality...... the medical reality....... of what is happening.  I am listening to enough people I know in the field of medicine (and I know a lot, personally), who happen to be political conservatives and trustworthy people to know that we are dealing with a different animal here, and that social distancing is required to slow down the spread and allow the hospitals to prepare for what's to come.

FYI, one of my sources is a politically conservative, US Navy doctor (just came back from 3 years stationed in Okinawa).  He is a personal friend, who is an Orthopedic Surgeon, now manning a medical triage tent to determine if patients may have COVID-19

His words??  This is serious.  PLEASE STAY HOME.

He's not an alarmist.  He's not leftist media.  He's not a Trump hater.  He's not an emotional type.

But he IS medically educated beyond what he reads on the Internet...... which I'm guessing isn't the case with you.

So I will continue to believe, without any form of panic, the experts in the medical field, and not be swayed by people who don't really know what they're talking about.

Sorry about rejecting your insults, @txradioguy .  But of all the many people I know personally without any leftist agenda, I will trust the experts and not you.

btw, if this turns out to be not as bad as the worst cases scenarios (which, of course, it will), it will be because so many Americans actually took the advice of the experts, stayed home and slowed the spread, saving them from a very nasty death.

Doctors in this area are gearing up and most are only seeing patients that present with emergency health issues; otherwise they are cancelling appointments.  There should be absolutely no question that the fatality rate in those over 60 is higher and even higher if they have underlying conditions.  There is just no disputing that.  My husband's doctor told him to stay home.  He's heeding his words.  I also have used this doctor as well and I have nothing but high praise for him -- if he says to stay home; I'm staying put.

As for what has caused this viral spread in the U.S. and the intent of this spread, is indeed questionable and very concerning - just my opinion.