Bernie: Real Socialism Has Never Been Tried

[roamer_1]

Refused to argue the point on silly semantics.  The really only big difference between communism, and socialism is a totalitarian government.  Secretly ask any socialistic head of state, and they would confide they'd prefer it that way.

It is inevitable. The government big enough to give you all that free stuff is big enough to rule you - And ultimately, rule you they will. It is the nature of the beast.

[LMAO]

I wish folks would quit hiding behind the Nordic countries as some sort of socialist nirvana.

First of all, they are tiny by comparison, with an homogeneous population.
Second of all, they have no defense budget to worry about, being under the jurisdiction of NATO countries... Namely US.

And even without a direct cost for defense, they are not doing very well, as their high cost socialist programs have inflated their economy tremendously.

That’s why they’re scaling back many of their generous welfare programs

Sweden tried the Bernie model and it failed. The Scandinavian countries are no longer socialist but theybdo have very large welfare programs that would bankrupt this country and probably not be embraced by Americans

[Dexter]

It is inevitable. The government big enough to give you all that free stuff is big enough to rule you - And ultimately, rule you they will. It is the nature of the beast.

I've already discussed why I think the government will have to help everybody sooner or later. Automation is swallowing up jobs and it's not going to stop or slow down. It might not be a necessity until after all of us are gone, but given enough time there simply won't be enough jobs left. Robots will be driving our cars, doing our surgeries, teaching our children and yes, even repairing the other robots. We're on a collision course with a brick wall and one day society will have to change its course or crash.

[Dexter]

That’s why they’re scaling back many of their generous welfare programs

Sweden tried the Bernie model and it failed. The Scandinavian countries are no longer socialist but theybdo have very large welfare programs that would bankrupt this country and probably not be embraced by Americans

The Scandinavians have a different mindset. They may have to make adjustments to their models because of costs, but the objective will always be to help and elevate their citizenry as much as possible.

[Dexter]

silly semantics.

Semantics matter when you're calling somebody something they're not.

[catfish1957]

I've already discussed why I think the government will have to help everybody sooner or later. Automation is swallowing up jobs and it's not going to stop or slow down. It might not be a necessity until after all of us are gone, but given enough time there simply won't be enough jobs left. Robots will be driving our cars, doing our surgeries, teaching our children and yes, even repairing the other robots. We're on a collision course with a brick wall and one day society have to change its course or crash.

I've been hearing about technology destroying human employment for 50 years now.  Your understanding of our species' ability to adapt is pretty thin.  As long as there is money to be made, and the human characteristic of innovation.....   Your argument is laughable.

[thackney]

I've already discussed why I think the government will have to help everybody sooner or later. Automation is swallowing up jobs and it's not going to stop or slow down. It might not be a necessity until after all of us are gone, but given enough time there simply won't be enough jobs left. Robots will be driving our cars, doing our surgeries, teaching our children and yes, even repairing the other robots. We're on a collision course with a brick wall and one day society have to change its course or crash.

Automation has increased productivity for many decades without increasing the overall unemployment.  You sound like a buggy-whip maker complaining about the automobile.  Jobs will change, for certain.   

[Dexter]

Automation has increased productivity for many decades without increasing the overall unemployment.  You sound like a buggy-whip maker complaining about the automobile.  Jobs will change, for certain.

It's different this time. Artificial intelligence will allow robots to do anything a human can do better than a human can do it, so when new productivity outlets arise it will be robots that fill the need, not people. Our tools are on the brink of outgrowing us.

[roamer_1]

That’s why they’re scaling back many of their generous welfare programs

Sweden tried the Bernie model and it failed. The Scandinavian countries are no longer socialist but theybdo have very large welfare programs that would bankrupt this country and probably not be embraced by Americans

That's exactly right. Everyone always speaks with glowing terms about their health system, but no one talks about the cost of goods, inflated by taxes. Their system is horribly broken, and as you said, they are being forced to back away from their system.

[Dexter]

I've been hearing about technology destroying human employment for 50 years now.  Your understanding of our species' ability to adapt is pretty thin.  As long as there is money to be made, and the human characteristic of innovation.....   Your argument is laughable.

We're incredible at adapting. That's why when the time comes we will make the obvious choice, which is to help people so society doesn't collapse.

[roamer_1]

I've already discussed why I think the government will have to help everybody sooner or later. Automation is swallowing up jobs and it's not going to stop or slow down. It might not be a necessity until after all of us are gone, but given enough time there simply won't be enough jobs left. Robots will be driving our cars, doing our surgeries, teaching our children and yes, even repairing the other robots. We're on a collision course with a brick wall and one day society have to change its course or crash.

Except you are stone dead wrong. There has never been a benevolent government in all of history. That is a notion you had best disabuse yourself of post haste. It is clouding your judgement.

And the idea that government is the solution to anything is always wrong.

[thackney]

It's different this time. Artificial intelligence will allow robots to do anything a human can do better than a human can do it, so when new productivity outlets arise it will be robots that fill the need, not people. Our tools are on the brink of outgrowing us.

LOL, after 30 more years of life experience, you will be laughing as well.

[Dexter]

Except you are stone dead wrong. There has never been a benevolent government in all of history. That is a notion you had best disabuse yourself of post haste. It is clouding your judgement.

And the idea that government is the solution to anything is always wrong.

I wouldn't be surprised if AI runs the government someday too. It'd probably be a lot better that way. I don't think people can make a perfect government. I just think relying on government in the centuries to come isn't going to be optional whether we like it or not.

[Dexter]

LOL, after 30 more years of life experience, you will be laughing as well.

Is it possible that you're wrong?

[roamer_1]

We're incredible at adapting. That's why when the time comes we will make the obvious choice, which is to help people so society doesn't collapse.

Why we are incredible at adapting is because we are free. When we are no longer free, we will no longer adapt. Even now it is noticeable.

And what will make society collapse is the government y'all deserve.

[EdinVA]

It's different this time. Artificial intelligence will allow robots to do anything a human can do better than a human can do it, so when new productivity outlets arise it will be robots that fill the need, not people. Our tools are on the brink of outgrowing us.

@Dexter
We are decades away, or longer, from real Artificial intelligence, which is defined as the ability to reason, learn and adapt.
We are using computers which react to sensors to follow the lines in the road, for example, that is not AI...
Any true AI system will be limited by the programmers knowledge and personal biases.

[roamer_1]

I wouldn't be surprised if AI runs the government someday too. It'd probably be a lot better that way. I don't think people can make a perfect government. I just think relying on government in the centuries to come isn't going to be optional whether we like it or not.

I think you are completely wrong. I think your faith in AI is dangerously misplaced.
I think your faith in government is likewise dangerously misplaced.

[Dexter]

We are decades away, or longer, from real Artificial intelligence

You're right. That's why I said it might not be until after we're all gone. The writing is on the wall though; it's only a matter of time.

[Hoodat]

Are the Scandinavian countries communist?

No.  Is Bernie Sanders a communist?  Yes.

[roamer_1]

You're right. That's why I said it might not be until after we're all gone. The writing is on the wall though; it's only a matter of time.

Nah. I think you've been watching to much star trek.

You code, right? If you do, you should know better.

[Dexter]

No.  Is Bernie Sanders a communist?  Yes.

What you've suggested is illogical. Can you name a single thing Bernie advocates for that isn't already being done in one or all of those countries?

SPOILER: You can't, because there isn't a single thing. If they're not communist then neither is Bernie.

[Hoodat]

I've already discussed why I think the government will have to help everybody sooner or later.

How do you expect an entity that creates zero wealth to be capable of helping everybody?

Automation is swallowing up jobs and it's not going to stop or slow down.

Automation is also saving and creating jobs.  It is responsible for a sizeable increase in per capita GDP and a higher standard of living across the board.

[thackney]

Is it possible that you're wrong?

Do you understand the definition of insanity?

[Dexter]

You code, right?

Something like that.

I think in the future computer language will become so complex that only AI is capable of navigating it. 

[roamer_1]

Something like that.

I think in the future computer language will become so complex that only AI is capable of navigating it.

That, at this time, is an absurdity.